T8: BLMs and dreadnoughts

What do you guys usually do for these? I know that I'm supposed to flare but what's the specifics? Treat it as a single target swift>flare>convert or aoe flare>swift>convert>flare>transpose? What about raging strikes and mega int pots/ethers? Do you use them up early or delay them to match with dreadnought spawns?

I've been trying either ways on flare and ngcds and I can't quite decide what's best.

As for what I deal with mechanics wise, me and the smn triggers the first two mine towers, then the other 2 monks triggers the third mine tower, then I think on the 4th mine towers, me and the smn triggers the AOE tower instead (changes with the bard depending on who has allagan field). I can't quite remember how dreadnoughts we have to deal with. Three of them, I think? I joined the static I am in now after they have beaten T8 so I just follow with what they're doing so I'm not too familiar in T8's tower intricacies. Is this in anyway similar to what people are usually doing? We still do T6 the normal way.

firstly, im not a blm main so take what i say with a grain of salt.
on 2 targets, i usually treat it as a single target, so fire 1 spam, up until the point where instead of using blizz II, i use flare > convert > etc etc

as far as int pots/ethers go, they share cooldown so probably best to go with the int pots.
for raging strikes, i've always kept it on cooldown for my summoner on turn 8, unless your group is struggling to kill the dread quick enough (in which case you prob wont have the dps to kill the avatar anyway) there's no reason to save it just for this.

That's the thing, I was trying single target the previous week with wave staff. I was firing off my rotation non stop without regard to the dreadnought tower spawn time. There were times where I was already at 1000 mp or less when the dreadnought spawned and we did die to this on the dreadnought where the avatar's hp was pretty low. That's why I start making sure I have enough mana as it spawns and I just thought I should have buffs on during dreadnoughts to make sure so I started using raging strikes at the very beginning, then int pot on the very first dreadnought and then damage buffs i have would cycle more in line with the dreadnought spawn time.

However this week I have my weathered laevataeinn and I forgot to keep my mana in check and when my mana was low on dreadnought spawn, I just started hard casting flare with whatever mp I have left then swift convert for another flare before transposing and thunder on avatar and then resuming my single target with avatar. Umbral was ticking with 1 stack so at when I switched to astral I have like 85% mp so I'm not sure if I should be doing this at all.

I personally believe that my performance in 2nd coil has been abysmal so far even when discounting mechanic screw ups. While we finally started doing enough damage to raflessia to not have a 2 bar lb for the super slug (we wiped and then won the next attempt ignoring the slugs) and then going way too fast on melusine forcing us to stop attacking to wait for a voice and then a shriek to resume at one point, I still feel that my wave staff to weathered laevataeinn upgrade didn't do much. Obviously I'm under performing and it's really disheartening to see myself under the bard, even if he has an i110 bow.

Save convert and swiftcast for dreadnaughts, and then aoe them, flare, convert, flare, transpose, fire III, 1-2 x fire II, flare. Raging strikes/potion depends on how fast your comp makes it to each dreadnaught so i cant say whether you should save for it or not. Ideally your bard should pop foes for dreadnaughts as well if thats possible.

I don't think Fire II is a good idea on just 2 targets.

@Gardes:

With our teams dps, part way through my 2nd rotation (after first astral ice phase) I pop RS, do a couple more Fire I on Boss and start hardcasting Flare (Dread should be pulled to the boss by the Tank and Enmity established), I then use Convert - Fire I (on Dread) - SC - Flare - (Fire III if proc) - Transpose - Bliz III on Dread (sometimes not needed, as hp already too low) - Thunder II on Boss and continue the usual rotation.

If that's not enough, then change it around so you get more burst on the Dread, but assuming your other dps are pulling their weight, it should be more than enough to pull your weight.

For 2nd Dread I usually have more mp when it spawns, so I Fire I it down a bit before doing double flare using a Mega Ether in place of convert.

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Originally Posted by nota

Save convert and swiftcast for dreadnaughts, and then aoe them, flare, convert, flare, transpose, fire III, 1-2 x fire II, flare. Raging strikes/potion depends on how fast your comp makes it to each dreadnaught so i cant say whether you should save for it or not. Ideally your bard should pop foes for dreadnaughts as well if thats possible.

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Currently my party kills dreadnought fast enough for me to only cast 2 flares before it dies. Sometimes my flare are even an overkill depending on whether the 1st flare is a hard cast or not.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

With our teams dps, part way through my 2nd rotation (after first astral ice phase) I pop RS, do a couple more Fire I on Boss and start hardcasting Flare (Dread should be pulled to the boss by the Tank and Enmity established), I then use Convert - Fire I (on Dread) - SC - Flare - (Fire III if proc) - Transpose - Bliz III on Dread (sometimes not needed, as hp already too low) - Thunder II on Boss and continue the usual rotation.

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I dont remember my party summoning the 1st dreadnought that fast. If it was on the 2nd salvo of my astrals, I would have definitely remembered and chose to save my first RS for this without questions. That flare combo order is something I haven't tried though. Looking at the later part, it looks like you transpose from astral3 and 0mp into umbral 1 then start on blizzard 3. This isn't a dps loss? I've been going straight into thunder instead. Can you tell me how much lower is your dps in this turn compared to your standing still for 6 minutes or so?

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Originally Posted by Gardes

I dont remember my party summoning the 1st dreadnought that fast. If it was on the 2nd salvo of my astrals, I would have definitely remembered and chose to save my first RS for this without questions. That flare combo order is something I haven't tried though. Looking at the later part, it looks like you transpose from astral3 and 0mp into umbral 1 then start on blizzard 3. This isn't a dps loss? I've been going straight into thunder instead. Can you tell me how much lower is your dps in this turn compared to your standing still for 6 minutes or so?

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I do about 10-20 more dps in this turn than standing still casting for 5 mins.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

I do about 10-20 more dps in this turn than standing still casting for 5 mins.

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You stand near the mine towers, yes? Do you touch aoe towers at all? Or dreadnoughts?

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Originally Posted by Gardes

You stand near the mine towers, yes? Do you touch aoe towers at all? Or dreadnoughts?

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We stand between the Dread and AoE towers, for the first set we have 2 people on Dread tower.

I run the furthest for tower duty in this turn, to mines (past boss behind tank for us) for set 2 and set 4 and the sets I do after allagan field vary.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

We stand between the Dread and AoE towers, for the first set we have 2 people on Dread tower.

I run the furthest for tower duty in this turn, to mines (past boss behind tank for us) for set 2 and set 4 and the sets I do after allagan field vary.

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How are you keeping your DPS up while running all the way to the mine towers? AM in or AM out? I dont really know the tower pop out timings to save and prepare my procs to use on the move.

Saving a Firestarter proc to run there (Sprint pre-cast), AM back to a healer I set as number 2 in the party menu.

Hmm, I start dropping 10-20 DPS once allagan field comes into play. I'm still not very comfortable with most of the turns and I've been more focused on not causing a wipe rather than pushing dps because my group has done this more times than I do and I'd feel horrible if I alone keep screwing up the mechanics (which I already am). I guess I just have to get more confident on when and where to move so I dont drop the dps ball. Unlike fights like titan and leviathan, I dont know the tower timings ingrained yet and have to react after it comes. Are the tower pop ups based on avatar health percentage?

I wish I can practice coil alone.

The highest dps i've ever done in T8 was with a spell speed build, double flaring the dreadnaughts no matter what, and using mana pots for the extra flares opposed to int pots.

depends on your group, but an extra flare (from double flaring) on the avatar shouldnt make or break the fight. i prefer single targeting the dread and single flaring with swiftcast convert.

as blm, i start off the fight in the dreadnaught tower and AM over to the rest of the party after i get languishing. have AM macro'ed to a healer who isn't pushing towers with you. you can choose to start off with raging strikes and use only an x-pot on the first dread. raging should be back up by the time second dread comes out. personally, i use raging on first dread and x-pot on second, but either is fine. i wouldnt waste a potion cd on a mega-ether. that extra flare isn't needed and an x-pot does a lot more dps. if you have time for three flares on the dread, it's dying too slow.

after some practice you'll know when the dread is about to pop, so you should adjust your rotation accordingly. for me, i hit quelling right before the dread pops, then i throw a virus on it and give the tank an eye. this "delay" gives the tank enough time to get aggro. for dps and healers, it's imperative that you let the tank get some aggro before going off. you don't want to turn it around and cleave the group.

as a blm you should also be one of the mine eaters. use manaward to mitigate the damage and have a designated area you cover. you'll need to set up a priority system with your group. same for binds.

anyway, there's not that much movement involved if you can use procs/swiftcast as you push towers/eat mines and AM back to the group. good luck on clearing!

I have been doing T8 with a two tank setup so there is more onus on all dps to be on point
So I start the fight with raging. Then time to make sure you have at least enough mana to cast min 2x fire + flair on dread.
Pop pot and quelling on dread spawn. Then hit with fire x2, or x3 if you have no procs, double flair after that and
it should be dead or almost dead at the time of second flair.
Second dread you wanna be at full mana and pretty much casting F3 on the avatar as dread spawns.
Then raging+ quelling, the fire till almost oom, SC flair and you should be good.
As a note, I almost always cast flair on the avatar just in case the dreads die too fast.
Treat the third dread like the first and the fourth like the second. Just watch them melt.

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Originally Posted by silvio

depends on your group, but an extra flare (from double flaring) on the avatar shouldnt make or break the fight. i prefer single targeting the dread and single flaring with swiftcast convert.

as blm, i start off the fight in the dreadnaught tower and AM over to the rest of the party after i get languishing. have AM macro'ed to a healer who isn't pushing towers with you. you can choose to start off with raging strikes and use only an x-pot on the first dread. raging should be back up by the time second dread comes out. personally, i use raging on first dread and x-pot on second, but either is fine. i wouldnt waste a potion cd on a mega-ether. that extra flare isn't needed and an x-pot does a lot more dps. if you have time for three flares on the dread, it's dying too slow.

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I was using HQ x-pots of int for a long time before I was mega-ethers. Doing an extra flare just comes out to more dps than the x-pot of int.

The x-pot is going to get you roughly an extra 100-110 damage every fire cast, and you are gonna get roughly 5 casts off during the duration. Even with the best crits and a firestarter proc, this comes out to roughly +900 extra damage.

An additional flare is going to hit for, at the very least, 1300 damage. If you prioritize these extra flares during the dreadnaught phase, thats +2600 damage minimum.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

I was using HQ x-pots of int for a long time before I was mega-ethers. Doing an extra flare just comes out to more dps than the x-pot of int.

The x-pot is going to get you roughly an extra 100-110 damage every fire cast, and you are gonna get roughly 5 casts off during the duration. Even with the best crits and a firestarter proc, this comes out to roughly +900 extra damage.

An additional flare is going to hit for, at the very least, 1300 damage. If you prioritize these extra flares during the dreadnaught phase, thats +2600 damage minimum.

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That is true, but in terms of "DPS" you also have to consider that extra DPS from an X-Pot is additional DPS over the time spent.

But with the extra Flare you have to cast it as an additional spell, i.e. more time taken.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

That is true, but in terms of "DPS" you also have to consider that extra DPS from an X-Pot is additional DPS over the time spent.

But with the extra Flare you have to cast it as an additional spell, i.e. more time taken.

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Even if you have to hardcast both flares, it still comes out to higher dps overall than an x pot would using single target fire 1 on the dreadnaught. The extra time taken seems to be negated by the fact that flare hits both targets.

All I know is my dps was considerably higher by prioritizing double flares on the dreads than it was by burning x-int into my fire chain.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

Even if you have to hardcast both flares, it still comes out to higher dps overall than an x pot would using single target fire 1 on the dreadnaught. The extra time taken seems to be negated by the fact that flare hits both targets.

All I know is my dps was considerably higher by prioritizing double flares on the dreads than it was by burning x-int into my fire chain.

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With 2 or more targets I agree that the MP pot is probably better for an extra Flare.

Curious what would actually be better "DPS" for single target though. I.e. using the MP pot like a Convert to continue your rotation after ending a rotation with SC- Flare. (Kinda off topic a bit :P)

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

With 2 or more targets I agree that the MP pot is probably better for an extra Flare.

Curious what would actually be better "DPS" for single target though. I.e. using the MP pot like a Convert to continue your rotation after ending a rotation with SC- Flare. (Kinda off topic a bit :P)

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TO THE TEST CHAMBER! FOR SCIENCE!

I'm kind of curious about this too now. I haven't done much number crunching outside of Turn 8 with this, and the only other time I use manapots is during speed runs. If i get a chance, I'll work the ol dummybag this weekend and let you know what I find.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

TO THE TEST CHAMBER! FOR SCIENCE!

I'm kind of curious about this too now. I haven't done much number crunching outside of Turn 8 with this, and the only other time I use manapots is during speed runs. If i get a chance, I'll work the ol dummybag this weekend and let you know what I find.

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Look forward to seeing your results xD