When will BLM be buffed?

We all know that it was announced BLM will be buffed. And the main reason is because they are weak in Coil 2.

So, will we see buffs prior to Coil 3? If BLM's are weak in Coil 2, then they need to be buffed before Coil 2 is obsolete.

When?

When it is ready. Please look forward to it.

Probably know in the next newsletter.

Blm doesnt need buffed..

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Originally Posted by Destinova

Blm doesnt need buffed..

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They do actually. A lot of movement involved.

idk... even on a very intense fight our BLMs is capable of dishing out necessary damage as needed.

Based on the initial mention of it, it's most likely will be in 2.30.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

idk... even on a very intense fight our BLMs is capable of dishing out necessary damage as needed.

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That's true, but in fights that require a lot of movement they'll still be on the lower end of the DPS totem pole. Having 'enough' dps doesn't really matter if they're still last place on heavy movement fights.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

That's true, but in fights that require a lot of movement they'll still be on the lower end of the DPS totem pole. Having 'enough' dps doesn't really matter if they're still last place on heavy movement fights.

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Yet easily #1for AOE. It's called a trade off but people these days want to be the best at everything.

BLM and WHM suffer most from high-movement fights because they are more "turret" style jobs (everything has a cast time so they don't allow casting on the go). The problem is that SE is drifting more and more towards high-mobility fights (as a way to inflate difficulty), but it's rendering these turret-type jobs more and more gimped.

The buff dont even have to do with the movement. Is because the dmg they do dont escalate well with gear, like they have a soft cap on dmg. The new gear dont benefit as well as the other clases.

You're also noticing a smaller weapon damage increase across the tier.

Simply put, Monk I95 = 47 WD. I115 = 53 WD. Difference = 6 WD or 12.7% MORE.
BLM I95 = 71 WD. I115 = 77 WD. Difference = 6 WD but 8.45% more, which is magically LESS than the boost that non-caster dps get.

Though that does seem to be the primary outlier. Str/Dex/Int all end up in the same ballpark, I believe, somewhere in the mid 500s. But WD, which is the single largest contributor to anyone dps, goes up by a smaller % value for casters.
Now if the I115 caster weapons came with 80 WD, then things might look a little better.

On-topic, I'm also looking forward to when it will happen.

Off-topic, threads like this ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL get into debates on DPS numbers. Like telephone....it just makes me laugh now

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

Simply put, Monk I95 = 47 WD. I115 = 53 WD. Difference = 6 WD or 12.7% MORE.
BLM I95 = 71 WD. I115 = 77 WD. Difference = 6 WD but 8.45% more, which is magically LESS than the boost that non-caster dps get.

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By that logic, bard should have had the biggest increase 42 -> 48 or 14.28% and they're non-caster dps. Only reason BLM's number is low is if the fight involves lots of movements. T8 is an example of where BLMs can catch up if they don't take a lot of duties.

can WHM's get a buff too?

i mean, i hate how a scholar has free movement whilst the pet heals but ive gotta be the turret.

BLM will get buffed but by the sounds of it it'll only be within specific fights. nothing outside, so it wont be a major buffing, just allows more damage output registered in fights.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

Yet easily #1for AOE. It's called a trade off but people these days want to be the best at everything.

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trade-offs are meaningless when the content is so streamlined. they are not going to have top end content with AOE DPS checks, that will create a large imbalance in the other direction and you'll get all the other jobs asking for buffs to AOE damage.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Only reason BLM's number is low is if the fight involves lots of movements. T8 is an example of where BLMs can catch up if they don't take a lot of duties.

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That is so wrong in so many ways. Been in a lot of Titan Ex/HM and even Ultima or any other fight that have a lot of movement and blm will be top or close to top dps against even geared people. T8 is the prime example of blm needing a buff because even if they dont move in the whole fight they fall behind the people that are moving a lot during the fight.

however if they buff blm globally it will cause massive unbalance in other areas. I can understand why it needs a buff in some areas but this needs to be tackled very carefully. I mean seriously if they got buffed brayflox hm will just became even more lol with a blm.

Never.... We are already too strong >.>

It was mentioned that BLMs suffer in new coil because of all the movement but...

Where is all this movement? Turn 6, you basically just move occasionally for devour, maybe you have to move for vines (if you are picked). Turn 7 you basically just move for shriek, maybe if you get cursed voice you move but, as a dps you have the smallest chance of getting it. Turn 8 you only move if you are doing a tower or a mine, otherwise you just stand there and nuke. Turn 9 has movement, so I can grant you that one but, it's not nearly as much as some of the ex primals.

Don't get me wrong though, I do think BLM suffer from heavy movement fights. Titan Ex is probably the worst offender. I just don't see the new coil as being the worst of their troubles.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

It was mentioned that BLMs suffer in new coil because of all the movement but...

Where is all this movement? Turn 6, you basically just move occasionally for devour, maybe you have to move for vines (if you are picked). Turn 7 you basically just move for shriek, maybe if you get cursed voice you move but, as a dps you have the smallest chance of getting it. Turn 8 you only move if you are doing a tower or a mine, otherwise you just stand there and nuke. Turn 9 has movement, so I can grant you that one but, it's not nearly as much as some of the ex primals.

Don't get me wrong though, I do think BLM suffer from heavy movement fights. Titan Ex is probably the worst offender. I just don't see the new coil as being the worst of their troubles.

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Less about the movement of T6-9; it's more a combination of BLM being 4th worst sustained DPS and then being impacted the worst by movement. Our max damage should be closer to SMN (though not surpassing it in a meaningful way) and we should be impacted far less by movement, then you've got a class that's less a burden. Right now SMN smokes BLM in every turn except possibly T8, and it's not even close.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

Yet easily #1for AOE. It's called a trade off but people these days want to be the best at everything.

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The only place where AoE is even useful is Brayflox SRs. You aren't AoEing the single bosses of Coil turns.

I really don't disagree with BLM's should be stronger but...

With 5 dps classes, there will always be one that is last. Right now, I assume that is bard. No big disagreements with bard being last place... They have a "easier" time, SMN is probably 2nd easiest but they don't offer many support abilities. BLM still rule AOE damage last I was told, should they really still be stronger than SMN? I think SMN would disagree, though personally I really don't care. I play bard, I'm last place, I know why I'm last place. SMN and BLM can fight for 3rd and 4th place, I will just sit in 5th place and watch lol. I mean, Mage's Ballad is really nice but, it's kind of like being good at AoE like BLM are, it's pretty situational.

Monk is highest for sure, then drg?...those two make sense for first 2 places since they have higher risk and movement being melee. Then 3rd is SMN I assume, then blackmage and finally bard.

That order doesn't sound unreasonable really. However, I wouldn't mind a few gap closers to make it so that some classes aren't as far in the lead (Monk is super strong atm, but, not that I'd want a nerf, I'd rather other jobs catch up). I mean, why is Monk so much stronger than DRG? Maybe they will give DRG their wyvern pet and it will even out... lol

I would truly like some buffs, to make me even more overpowered ^^...

TBH, even in those fight which are considered BLM unfriendly like T6, i never have troubles topping DPS, because in my opinion, main thing of "know your Job" as BLM is, how to move as less as possible while move as much as needed...
or in other words, you have to be a cool badass, taking one step side and let the AoE impact next to you burn you shoelaces.

Im usually second in dps, only beaten by our Bard who is quite overgeared compared to me. Melee is quite good, but looses for example in T7 due to avoiding the circle AoEs, while in this fight, i barely move and casting nearly without break.

And I have to mention, I noticed yesterday, I did wrong assignment, hat +10 on VIT... so let´s see what todays raid will show ^^

I'll repost from another thread to ensure it reaches both devs and community.

I do agree that BLM has its place in the game. But there should be a place for it in endgame (read raids).
Currently there are several problems that make BLM bad for raids:
1. It suffers too much from movement/avoiding mechanics. Interrupting casts midcast without decent filler (scathe is sooo bad)
2. It has totally low single target DPS even if standing still. On a dummy test (which is ideal situation for BLM) one is behind all other classes ~15%
3. There are very few situations where BLM can show his AOE potential.
- Levi - none (maybe 1 swiftcasted flare on 2 adds if tanks stack them)
- T6 - 1 swiftcasted flare for central bulb (once or twice in a fight)
- T7 - none, all mobs are spread out to avoid melee being cleaved
- T8 - Flaring Dreads 2 times
- T9 - none, all mobs are always spread out
- Fore most of these situations SMN is much better to Bane/Enkindle
4. It totally relies on RNG on Firestarter and Thundercloud procs and those procs almost can't serve a purpose to plan on movement.
5. Firestarter and Thundercloud procs overwrite themselves if they are not being used immediately.

What I am proposing to do to counter most of these problems:
- Change both Firestarter and Thundercloud to be a stackable buff like Umbral Ice with 3 stacks.
- Increase probability on Thundercloud procs drastically. 5% is so low that you can't ever expect it to proc in time for anything. Maybe 25-30% could do the trick however it is still so much relying on luck... I expect at least 2 thundercloud procs per fire rotation.
- (optionally) increase probability of Firestarter proc to 50-60%.
- (optionally) increase duration on Firestarter and Thundercloud procs to allow situational usage of them.

As a result we get:
- Increased single target DPS. Imagine us having Thundercloud for Ice phase. There won't be a situation when say add spawns requiring immediate DPS but we are oom and can provide only our downtime fillers for it... With proposed changes I expect ~15% ST DPS increase.
- Being able to plan on movement or bursts having stacked a couple of fire/thunder procs
- We are not overpowering BLM as he still can't stack all these until he stands and hardcasts Fire/Thunder

As to bards being lowest. First - it is not true, especially with DRG in group. Second - they may provide a ton of support improving other classes DPS (sacrificing its own a bit) which is definitely not the case with BLM.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

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The rule of thumbs in MMOs when it comes to damage output is "the class with the most risk should put out the most damage."

When balancing DPS output in a game like FFXIV there are a few factors you have to take into account as part of your "trade-offs."
1. Raw defensive ability
2. Mobility/Survivability
3. Amount of utility (party buffs/debuffs/cc)
4. Type of combat (ranged vs melee)

The more power you have in 1 area, the more you must sacrifice from the others to create balance. From here we can break down all the FFXIV DPS roles.

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MNK                DRG                BLM            SMN              BRD
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Low defense        Mid defense        Low defense    Low defense      Low defense
High mobility      High mobility      Low mobility    Mid mobility      High mobility
Low utility        Low utility        Mid utility    Mid utility      High utility
Close-combat        Close-combat      Full-ranged    Full-ranged      Full-ranged

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Next we can assign a combat score based on each strength (the lower the number, the weaker the job is with that trait).
NOTE: this is a rough balance scoring that is far from perfect, but is merely meant to illustrate the quantitative/qualitative balancing aspect of MMOs.

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Combat score
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1                  2                  1              1                1
3                  3                  1              2                3
1                  1                  2              2                3
1                  1                  2              2                2

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And finally we get totals

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Totals
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6                  7                  6              7                9

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So by this we can see that, assuming equally geared and played by equally skilled players, MNK and BLM should have top possible DPS while BRD should be lowest.

DRG have access to the 2nd highest defensive gear in the game next to tanks, it's only logical that they should have a lower DPS output than MNK. SMN have higher mobility than BLM, so it's only logical they should have a lower DPS output than BLM.

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Originally Posted by wicked-one

TBH, even in those fight which are considered BLM unfriendly like T6, i never have troubles topping DPS...

Im usually second in dps, only beaten by our Bard who is quite overgeared compared to me.

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What can I say... Probably your Melee just don't know how to play THEIR class. And bard topping your parse means he never plays songs for your party which I am not sure if it is good.

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Originally Posted by Velox

So by this we can see that, assuming equally geared and played by equally skilled players, MNK and BLM should have top possible DPS while BRD should be lowest.

DRG have access to the 2nd highest defensive gear in the game next to tanks, it's only logical that they should have a lower DPS output than MNK. SMN have higher mobility than BLM, so it's only logical they should have a lower DPS output than BLM.

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However, no one is going to tank with a 2nd highest defensive gear tank with only 3 minor defensive CDs to his name (outside of the occasional Garuda EM party using a Lancer for a brief time). On the other hand, Manawall can allow the BLM to even ignore entire mechanics at times, or else survive what would be sure death to another job, such as bad spits in T6 and even 2 out of 3 (or 6) Divebombs in T5. Apocatastasis (or whatever it's called) can prevent low players from dying to Fireball...
Heck, the first time I saw Hydra solo-tanked, back when we were primarily wearing AF or mixed Darklight / AK gear, it was because our dps was mostly BLMs. We would simply swap in via Aetheric Manipulation and Manawall Triumverate, move out for Dissever, and then back in for the next Trium on rotation whenever the tank or healers ran out of CDs and started hitting sound effects. In Leviathan, you can avoid being slid down the boat by just AMing to another player, or, as long as the rails are still up, negate the blow of a sea serpent landing on you no problem. Whether you choose to call that mobility, utility, or defense, it's still significant. Not as much as instant rezzes, perhaps, but it's still pretty damn good.

And even if this scale were both accurate and the criteria for job scaling, would you really want to have a job that kicks ass only in turret situations? Half the "risk" in any job is simply having to do what you're not niched for. And yet there's no way that a non-turret situation, risk-for-reward, would help (what is presently) a turret-class. ...I'd really like to have them just bring these 'ratings' closer, rather than lining them up according to what they lack.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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You are describing very creative play using Manawall etc but we have to remember that BLM's primary role is DPS and currently it lacks pretty much on this side (asides from Brayflox farm). BLM does not buff any party members for DPS so he has to be one of the most potent damage dealers out there.
Remembering that most bosses really mess up all players (both melee and ranged) we can see that impact on BLM is higher than on all other DPS classes. Also have to remind that even in ideal situation BLM's DPS is one of the lowest atm.

SE could give BLM (and WHM) an single target ranged attack skill that is instant and cost TP instead of MP.

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Originally Posted by Felis

SE could give BLM (and WHM) an single target ranged attack skill that is instant and cost TP instead of MP.

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They should never have nerfed Scathe. Make it cost more MP if need be but buff the damage and make it a worthwhile alternative to Fire. Though the main problem with BLM movement is sometimes losing Astral Fire III and having to start your rotation again.

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Originally Posted by Pacifyer

What can I say... Probably your Melee just don't know how to play THEIR class. And bard topping your parse means he never plays songs for your party which I am not sure if it is good.

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Foe requim doesn't affect BRDs damage whatsoever. Only ballads do that, Mana and TP songs.

Just wondering upto what level do people think BLMs single target should be buffed? Take into account balance here. On par with SMN? Then for balance SMN AE dps needs to be buffed. Obviously I'm taking into consideration movement cutting down DPS. So should BLMs single target DPS be on par with SMN whilst avoiding mechanics? Which would put them past SMN if they can 100% turret.

If so. what would be the point of SMN then?

Or even higher, what about on par with MNK? If so, can MNK have the AE potential of BLM also? You know, so MNK stays as viable as BLM.

Expecting a major buff to BLMs single target. You bound to be disappoointed as balance and viability needs to be maintained. Expecting minor changes? A slight increase in ST potential, then I think your on track.

I think it needs less of a buff to raw DPS (though it is a bit RNG-based and such), and more of a boost to DPS consistency when motion is involved.

I also think it's a mistake for Foe Requiem to only boost magic damage, and think that there should be some kind of inbuilt boost (like Disembowel or Dragon Kick for instance) since balancing potential DPS output around a Bard being present and able to use that one specific song just seems problematic. I would rather Foe Requiem be retooled to boost all damage (by an amount <10%).

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Originally Posted by Naelle

Yet easily #1for AOE. It's called a trade off but people these days want to be the best at everything.

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Tell me more about how high AoE numbers matters on relevant content and not only lolspeedrunning w/overgeared characters.

T4 was great in that way in 2.0-2.1, but now there is litterally no reason to have a BLM in your static. Sadly.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Foe requim doesn't affect BRDs damage whatsoever. Only ballads do that, Mana and TP songs.

Just wondering upto what level do people think BLMs single target should be buffed? Take into account balance here. On par with SMN? Then for balance SMN AE dps needs to be buffed. Obviously I'm taking into consideration movement cutting down DPS. So should BLMs single target DPS be on par with SMN whilst avoiding mechanics? Which would put them past SMN if they can 100% turret.

Or even higher, what about on par with MNK? If so, can MNK have the AE potential of BLM also? You know, so MNK stays as viable as BLM.

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SMN already outdoes BLM in turret situations if the BLM is at all unlucky with procs, and most people here seem to be asking to either reduce RNG elements or allow for planning / skill compensation of RNG elements in order to increase its mobile dps, which will still be beneath true turret dps, just hopefully not by nearly as much, while perhaps even making the job more interesting.

Also, to be honest, if Perfect Balance was a shorter CD and both its and Invigorate's CDs affected by Skill Speed, I think Monk would already have that covered.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

I think it needs less of a buff to raw DPS (though it is a bit RNG-based and such), and more of a boost to DPS consistency when motion is involved.

I also think it's a mistake for Foe Requiem to only boost magic damage, and think that there should be some kind of inbuilt boost (like Disembowel or Dragon Kick for instance) since balancing potential DPS output around a Bard being present and able to use that one specific song just seems problematic. I would rather Foe Requiem be retooled to boost all damage (by an amount <10%).

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I definitely would like to see Chaos Thrust, Dragonfire Dive, Howling Fist, Touch of Death, Spirits Within, Circle of Scorn, Sword Oath, Bloodletter, Venomous Bite, Windbite, and Flaming Arrow also be affected at least. It's not much, but at least then it seems a true 'magic damage' effect rather than just a 'caster boost'.

The only buff I see BLM needing is that Firestarter procs "stacks" so that if I get a Firestarter proc and then another after I have two shots of it. That would greatly help BLMs maintain DPS even in high movement battles. I think up to three would be good to not make it abuseable.

Firestarter stacks and make apo actually worth something.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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Remember though that there WILL be a level cap raise, and there WILL be more job skills added to the game. Given BRD already has a MP over time song, it's not unreasonable that we will see an HP over time song. And since we already have a -% Mdef song, it's not unreasonable to see a -% Def song too in the future.

The level cap is only 50 right now, and there's only so many job abilities you can fit. This doesn't mean jobs won't continue to grow next cap raise.

3rd coil requires super turret blms to burst down stuff, ppl stack blms and other dps feel left out.
Stuff happens and there will always be changes in which dps is the best and which could use a buff.
Imo just hang in there and wait for a buff for "everyone" in 2.3 or something.
Cuz everytime they fix/ add or remove something a section of the playerbase will loathe it.
Also if you knew blms were turret like dps why did you even choose to play it? You should have seen this coming tbh.
I may not play blm but all i know is tht ppl like trying to make their classes something they r not.
I like my "tank" whm cuz it's fun so i'm one of those ppl.

But either it'll be in 2.28 or the patch after.
Just prey they don't "mess up" the blm's tool kit.

they should just revert the scathe nerf or buff Thunder potency. 90% of BLMs I've seen put out terrible numbers because they don't use the tools available to them to maximize their uptime (Aetherial Manipulation + Manawall)