2.3 info from the Duty Commenced live stream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_l5CyQfsO0

I don't PvP at all, but I didn't see a post here about this yet. At about 20 minutes in they start talking about the 2.25 armors, but at about 25 minutes in they talk about 2.3 Frontlines changes, such as making the 'pvp actions/traits' available from the start without spending points.

Thought you all might be interested.

This is big, I can't wait for this change. A lot of people's sour first impressions were because they didn't have these actions to counteract some of the cheese.

Also the latency issues, and extremely slow rate of obtaining marks to buy gear and skills. I really hope they latency issues are fixed for Frontlines. This is the only MMO I've played with such bad latency issues, which absolutely kills PvP.

PvP abilities being available immediately is a fantastic change to both balance and accessibility. I'll be able to play other classes without having to invest marks in respec tokens.

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Originally Posted by Rawkzor

I really hope they latency issues are fixed for Frontlines.

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Not sure they will ever be altered. We have a little under three checks made by the server every second which updates positioning and status. What's more is the mess of animation locks and delays applied to critical skills like Benediction and Hallowed Ground.

Both of these things combined just worsen an already poor system, and both can't easily be changed without altering the structural framework of the game itself.

Greetings, everyone!

Thanks for tuning into Duty Commenced! As we mentioned during the stream, we definitely have a lot in store for the future of PvP. We managed to check in with the Lead Battle System Designer Mitsutoshi Gondai who wanted us to pass along the following message about some upcoming plans, which we outlined on the show.

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Originally Posted by Gondai

To players participating in PvP

As you know, Patch 2.25 saw the maximum PvP rank increased along with the introduction of brand-new sets of PvP equipment. This new equipment was prepared for each class and job with unique designs that you may remember being teased in previous Letter from the Producer LIVE shows.

Based on the speed in which PvE equipment can be obtained, I’d like to apologize that it took nearly a month to add PvP equipment and increase the rank.

We hope you continue to enjoy the thrill of PvP as you battle to increase your rank and obtain the new equipment!

Future plans for PvP

As we head towards Patch 2.3 and the release of Frontlines (final name TBD) content, we will be making a few changes to the overall PvP system.

For now, I’d like to discuss some of the system changes. We’ll be making it so all of the PvP actions are available from the start and even when you are PvP rank 0 you will have access to all of them. PvP points will be used to acquire traits that will enhance actions and traits that will enhance stats. Additionally, as long as you are not in battling in a PvP match, you can reallocate these PvP points at any time.

The main goal of these changes is to make it easier for players who have not been participating in PvP to get into this content. Also, by making it easier to participate in PvP as multiple classes or jobs, it will make it much more accommodating.

Since FFXIV: ARR was designed as a game where you could play multiple classes and jobs, we decided to make these adjustments giving consideration towards this important point.

We’ll be sure to inform you of the other things we are looking into as well as the Frontlines system as we get closed to Patch 2.3.


Thank you for your continued support!

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I'm still not inspired to play the current PvP, and the outlook for "frontline" is poor. I'm not getting the sense that the problems we've been reporting since the launch of PvP are getting any real attention.

I'd like to see much bigger maps for 4 v 4 and have no radar so that the exact location of opposing players is unknown.
Then include plenty of switches and traps etc that change the layout of the map.

The current empty circle map is kinda useless.

I really hope Frontline is going to be fun,
for myself, I'm interested in PvP game modes except the current linear one which your only goal is kill all from other team

Yea right, I will look forward to it.

I cant wait for frontlines, I play this game solely for the PVP, dont understand how people are entertained doing PVE raids. Thats fun for about a day. That being said I really really hope frontlines is good. Yoshi was an avid DAOC player, and that had the best PVP / RVR so lets hope its something similar! Cant wait.

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Originally Posted by Maximius

I cant wait for frontlines, I play this game solely for the PVP, dont understand how people are entertained doing PVE raids. Thats fun for about a day. That being said I really really hope frontlines is good. Yoshi was an avid DAOC player, and that had the best PVP / RVR so lets hope its something similar! Cant wait.

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Hmm since this game will never be PVP focused don't know why you would play this game solely for PVP. Final Fantasy XI had some cool PVP in it but once again not pvp focused. I am sure they will make it more exciting though as they add more to this MMO. I just pray they never turn it into an Aion where ganking is encouraged and zergs run around killing one player here and there. Of course that isn't really pvp anyways, it's just some playing at being bullies.

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Originally Posted by Lainmyst

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They have been teasing us about frontlines since 2012, this is not an addon after the fact, this is something that's been in development for 2 years, when the producer has been an avid pvper in RvR style, I'm willing to bet it'll be an really good pvp zone.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone!

Thanks for tuning into Duty Commenced! As we mentioned during the stream, we definitely have a lot in store for the future of PvP. We managed to check in with the Lead Battle System Designer Mitsutoshi Gondai who wanted us to pass along the following message about some upcoming plans, which we outlined on the show.

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I',m sorry... the real problem isn't on the PvP system since the first time.

It's bad design gameplay like a cat chasing a rat game..There's no jump or movement to avoid any skills/ spells, if dev.team put auto-follow menu for tank and DPS the rest is spamming button or sleep and kill the rest, this is the whole picture of the game for the entire patch that will come.

As MMORPG's pvp player for 12 years, i don't find any fun at all from FFXIV's pvp.

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Originally Posted by Camate

PvP actions are available from the start and even when you are PvP rank 0 you will have access to all of them. PvP points will be used to acquire traits that will enhance actions and traits that will enhance stats. Additionally, as long as you are not in battling in a PvP match, you can reallocate these PvP points at any time.

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Most expensive is not reallocate points for free, is to acquire gears, you cannot play multiple job if gears are to expensive and you cannot enjoy your tank in pvp/pve cause 10000 gc points to reallocate your 30 bonus pts from vita to strengh, same for sch/smn.

Rank requirement of gear was reduced and stuff pve 110 offset morale with more hp and damages, 2.2 duty rules about rank are not necessary.

This pvp need fix : melee DPS classes need more dmg, tank dmg need a big nerf (remove all damages buff cross-skill for mrd and glad, only in pvp if you want)
How is possible to call DPS classes if tank classes deal more dmg without any positional constraint ? Tank needs good CC and protect ppl abilities, it's a teamplay based game.

Do melee classes really need a buff in PvP? Maybe mnk. I play exclusively with me as sch, a brd, a DRG, and a pld. My DRG tears people up. Two shots a sch and fairy in one. And once two shotted 3 people at once. Maybe some melee are just bad.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Do melee classes really need a buff in PvP? Maybe mnk. I play exclusively with me as sch, a brd, a DRG, and a pld. My DRG tears people up. Two shots a sch and fairy in one. And once two shotted 3 people at once. Maybe some melee are just bad.

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i m not sure monk need a buff , monk is bad played most of the time.
i ve known a monk wich was realy realy powerfull much more than other dps i know : x li so in my opinion monk doesn t need a buff :)

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Noo dont nerf tanks. They are fine as is. The only reason why they put bigger numbers is because everyone leaves them alone. They still dont do as much as dps classes.. and btw.. lets not make this game even more linear on pvp builds.. that would be ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Alazier

Noo dont nerf tanks. They are fine as is. The only reason why they put bigger numbers is because everyone leaves them alone. They still dont do as much as dps classes.. and btw.. lets not make this game even more linear on pvp builds.. that would be ridiculous.

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Melee DPS are alone too, they deal same damage with positional restriction.
Why SE change duty rule with Melee DPS slot requirement ? Melee DPS are low compare to other classes, they need a fix instead of slot !!!
A great Mrd, beat an entire team, is that role of tank class ?
With MRD nerf, we will see a massive pop of DPS classes...

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Originally Posted by PixelPirate

and the outlook for "frontline" is poor.

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You're basing this on all the information released I'm assuming, and by that I mean next to nothing. How could you possibly judge something you know next to nothing about?

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Originally Posted by Alazier

Noo dont nerf tanks. They are fine as is. The only reason why they put bigger numbers is because everyone leaves them alone. They still dont do as much as dps classes.. and btw.. lets not make this game even more linear on pvp builds.. that would be ridiculous.

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Im at 285 morale and if a fully geared MAR bursts on me and my cooldowns are spent he's going to take about 30- 50% of my HP.. that's some bullshit, i'm not screaming nerf, but there is no Bard, Monk or Dragoon that has ever done that to me in 4000 matches in the 50 bracket. MAR constantly does this in pvp. With that said, they are a 1 trick pony, if you can escape their burst, they need to recharge their cooldowns but even then, they still put out some crazy dmg.

Play a BLM in any PvP match and tell me that any other DPS class needs a "buff".
The only thing BLMs are capable of doing is casting sleep and scathe, and I dare you to see how much dps you do with scathe alone.

As I said in another topic, I am a BLM Rank 15 with around 3200 HP and have been crit before from a Warrior's main for 1500-1600 dmg.

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Originally Posted by Spyrit

They have been teasing us about frontlines since 2012, this is not an addon after the fact, this is something that's been in development for 2 years, when the producer has been an avid pvper in RvR style, I'm willing to bet it'll be an really good pvp zone.

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I agree as I got to talk to some Devs at the FFXI ARR release event at PAX Prime last summer regarding their plans and intensions for PVP. It's just that I know from past experience hard core PVP'ers get their way a lot of the time as with MMOs like Aion. That said I know Aion was a PVP focused game from the start. I know FFXIV will never become a PVP focused game. Are you thinking that the Frontlines will be similar zone wise say to the Abyss in Aion?

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Originally Posted by Tempting

Play a BLM in any PvP match and tell me that any other DPS class needs a "buff".
The only thing BLMs are capable of doing is casting sleep and scathe, and I dare you to see how much dps you do with scathe alone.

As I said in another topic, I am a BLM Rank 15 with around 3200 HP and have been crit before from a Warrior's main for 1500-1600 dmg.

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Blm has an utility, if you remove restriction, just like 2.1 melee DPS will be classes which ruin your game, that's all, I'm feeling bad about frontline, fix classes before implement new content/scenario cause we still need strict matchmaking cause as free for all open pvp i guess we'll see 70% marauder.

Only classes able to win 3v1 is marauder, This is totally unbalance

i really like the idea of having pvp abilities available from the get go. However that seems like a change that could easily be implemented.... why the wait?

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You're basing this on all the information released I'm assuming, and by that I mean next to nothing. How could you possibly judge something you know next to nothing about?

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Have you ever heard the saying "The best predictor of future performance is past performance"? Outlook: The view or prospect from a particular place. So therefore, from my view or prospect, and basing my words from current/past performance -- I predict that the "new" PvP has a "poor" likelihood of being significantly better than the current PvP. An improvement it may well be... I am betting it won't be a big improvement.

So when are we going to move from "Frontlines, please look forward to it!" to "Frontlines involves <insert here>, please look forward to it!"?

My hype for the general idea of Frontlines ran out a while ago. Having some actual solid information on it after all these years would be nice... I swear, if it's pretty much just 8v8v8 then I'll probably prefer Wolves' Den, which is just... Ugh...

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Do melee classes really need a buff in PvP? Maybe mnk. I play exclusively with me as sch, a brd, a DRG, and a pld. My DRG tears people up. Two shots a sch and fairy in one. And once two shotted 3 people at once. Maybe some melee are just bad.

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But would you pick a melee if you didnt have to? Why would you pick a dps class that is wasting globals and uptime left and right due to having to lead their attacks cause shitty servers over the double ranged teams we saw before 2.2? Not to mention positionals..which are only possible if magically a tank hasnt made my target stun immune and then once every 40 seconds. Drg at least has the option of timed bursts/crits and some ranged attacks (jumps), i guess thats nice. Either way its laggy and because of the missed kills that occur from that, often i feel that melee are just in matches because thats what the queue demands (and cause im solo queue'ing).

Just the pvp skills thing isnt enough after all this time. If we arent getting any balance changes sooner than this then frontlines will indeed be all marauders. Also typical DaoC pvp with blm sleeps i guess. And i wonder about the extra stress on lag when there are 40 people running around instead of 8.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Do melee classes really need a buff in PvP? Maybe mnk. I play exclusively with me as sch, a brd, a DRG, and a pld. My DRG tears people up. Two shots a sch and fairy in one. And once two shotted 3 people at once. Maybe some melee are just bad.

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Agreed, dragoons wreck shit, most melee I see are just so awful and easy to shake off/kite. It's near impossible to shake a good goon off me (not QQing, just saying they are fair imo

TBH I don't really think melee need a buff. After so many fcking games, the bad melee players will do shit dps/play bad/no pvp skills and then cry. Yet when I see the pros play, (good ole kirito or koltik =/ ) They do insane amounts of damage moreso than the ranged classes majority of the time in every single game I see. they are fine IMO. At least from dragoon side imo, hard to shake a goon off me, and they hit so hard too

Bind --> Backflip
Repelling shot --> Jump
Sprint ---> Weapon Throw with the possibility of heavy
Only thing I have left is blast shot which is 300second CD unupgraded but I use that typically with farshot on a fullswinged healer when I see them low.

Not QQing. melee are fine, just know what you're doing and have PvP skills and you'll be fine. Altho monks might have it rough with keeping GL3 up soo maybe help them a bit IDK

(am rank 30+ and have been for some time, just have helm glamoured to look like the warwolf)

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Originally Posted by Epistane

TBH I don't really think melee need a buff. After so many fcking games, the bad melee players will do shit dps/play bad/no pvp skills and then cry. Yet when I see the pros play, (good ole kirito or koltik =/ ) They do insane amounts of damage moreso than the ranged classes majority of the time in every single game I see. they are fine IMO. At least from dragoon side imo, hard to shake a goon off me, and they hit so hard too

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Any range are better than melee for teamplay, remember 2.1, we need some adjustement for frontline content, dont have pld or melee in your group is an advantage, so yes melee need fix, marauder can easily beat 3 man, whm are too strong, they all need adjustment for free matchmaking content

i m not agree eden , ix li was the best dps i ve know and he was monk , when he tried blm , he used to be good be still weaker than monk

just smn job has been cheated and far more efficient than other dps at the beginning of pvp

Maybe it's just me but I don't see why everyone always calls for nerfs. First it was the smn, which yeah maybe they needed to be nerfed. When you can can own a team while playing naked. But War was capable of this kind of dps while the smns were doing there thing right? So the smns got nerfed and ppl turned to war. Now wars need to be nerfed? Then the community will turn to another "op" class; tweak it, change the rotation, unequip the crystal, whatever... Now we have a new "op" class that was there all along.

I'm looking forward to frontlines* myself. But if it's a typical RvR type setup then I see a lot of ppl being disappointed. I am expecting to see some zerging. If I run around by myself then I fully expect to get clipped by a pre made or just LOLed by a Zerg. I won't always have a pre made going in there but I know I'll try and stick close to a group of "friendlies" while I tool around in there.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, nerfs arnt the answer. I think they need to add some basic abilities that all classes should have in pvp. Everyone should have a root, a snare, a cc break, a way to create distance, and a way to close the gap. Also I think sprint should be on a cool down but not consume TP and spells should suffer pushback but not be canceled outright. Yes some classes have a few of these abilities but I don't think one class has all of them. They should also get rid of the standard party setup up to get into pvp. Should be first 4 available go in. If it's 4 dps vs 4 dps then cool. If it's 4 dps vs. 4 healers? Oh we'll. it's just one match. As long as premades are still matched against premades. I think that would solve que times and make matches interesting.

i ve no pb with marauder compared to smn at the beginning of the game.

For me paladin or marauder are quite equal , just different gameplay

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Originally Posted by Heavell

I',m sorry... the real problem isn't on the PvP system since the first time.

It's bad design gameplay like a cat chasing a rat game..There's no jump or movement to avoid any skills/ spells, if dev.team put auto-follow menu for tank and DPS the rest is spamming button or sleep and kill the rest, this is the whole picture of the game for the entire patch that will come.

As MMORPG's pvp player for 12 years, i don't find any fun at all from FFXIV's pvp.

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jump and avoid attacks? this isnt an egoshooter....


pvp can take its essence of good strategy gameplay mechanics... such as cc, positioning and the use of the skill reportoir etc.


DAOC showed that this works and DAOC has the best pvp system yet.

I personally think you cant analyse a pvp system on a small arena pvp that lasts 1-2 mins...

Sometimes I regret reading...

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Q: Please let us know the future of PvP!
Yoshida: In patch 2.28 we have plans to change the PvP system. Currently, you start without any personal actions for band new PvP players, but to make it more casual, we’re going to change is so you have these actions from the beginning. Also we’ll make it where you can freely switch around the points earned from ranking up. Front Line which is planned for release in patch 2.3 (battle between 3 teams) is probably good place to try out PvP before getting into the real PvP. PvP is not limited to 24 players, there may be much more.

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Frontlines is a good place to try out PvP before getting into the real PvP.... So... Wolves' Den and Frontlines... Wolves' Den is the "real" PvP...

Gods, I hope I'm interpreting that wrong...

dragoons are fine the way they are

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Originally Posted by Lainmyst

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Frontlines will be it's own zone, the closest we could see as far as open world, is if they implement something like ballista. But Yoshi-P clearly stated there would be no open world pvp.

Sorta off topic but don't you think being able to relocate points whenever you want and having separate points for each job makes the entire system absolutely pointless? (No pun intended)

I know it's the age of the casual Mmorpg but having to make sacrifices and choices relevant to gameplay won't kill the kids. They have to learn decision making at some point.

As it sits.. You might as well just add 30 to each bards dex, each whms mnd etc.

And from what I gather with the new pvp changes we can add points to pvp oriented skills which again is pointless because u can just move them around as you see fit and when you see fit. Just another button to click to give the illusion of variety? (In a game with one set of gear per item level) itemization is another topic all together but it was so bad in ffxi I feared for it here and old habits apparently die hard.

Incoming baby flames! (And I'm sure incoming 2 posts because of pointless 1000 character limit!)

What you sacrifice for choices that lock you into a role, you lose by the accessibility of trying out multiple classes. It would be nice if there still was a penalty for changing skills around, but it's not as harsh as it is now. Maybe 300 wolf marks per switch, this would make switching every round obsolete but encourage trying a set class for a set amount of time to see if you like it.