[Suggestion] Lower the Focus on Crafting

The title says it all. I think the game is entirely too innertwined with crafting. I am fine with there being crafting classes and quests in the game. However, repairs are just too much of a burden right now. I'd like repair durability either removed or greatly scaled back. I'd like to play an 8 hour day before I need to even worry about gear damage.

Also, I think that crafting your own gear is nice and all. But the current system forces me to buy or craft my way to success. With the implementation of more NMs, endgame, etc., I would desperately like to see high-end gear that is the best of its class/level/type that you could only get through blood. In other words, the very best gear in the game should always always be gear from NMs and Endgame. Thats gear not materials!! Nothing would disappoint me more than to fight and beat Bahamut, only to get materials instead of actual gear drops.

No. Crafting and gathering classes were designed from day 1 to be on the same level as combat classes.

You have clearly stated in one small sentence what the problem is. Thanks. Which leads to another problem: The lack of direction that brought forth concepts and ideas that were thrown together without a thought for the consequences. Crafting and battle classes will never be able to coexist in any sort of significant manner beyond supply and demand. The objectives of crafting classes get in the way of battle classes, and battle classes objectives get in the way of crafting classes. Devs just need to make up their mind on 1 or the other, but it cant be both.

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In other words, the very best gear in the game should always always be gear from NMs and Endgame.

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The very best gear should be gear made from ingredient drops from NMs and Endgame.

Didn't they just greatly reduce the amount of wear gear takes as long as you are the proper class and rank? I haven't had to repair a single item since the patch and I grind crafting practically all day long while I work. This seems like a complete non-issue now.

I assume you're the type of guy that likes to grind endlessly on field monsters after doing all your regional guildleves and totally avoid crafting and gathering... It is true, no one would have been able to progress if no one crafted, the way it is now. However, thats just the way it is. Go craft :)

If end game gear only come as drop, might as well scrap crafting and gathering because they would serve no purpose. Also, scrap leveling because all people will want to be doing is just grind for end game gear. Better yet, scrap grind for end game gear and drop end game gears into every new account being made.

The answer is no, big fat no. In order to attract larger player base, compromise. Make both end-game gear as drop and ingredient for crafting, more people will be happy than just one method. And FYI the faction leve NM gear look totally rusted which mean they will be used for upgrading into better gears later.

More than likely Mariya end game items will be further upgradeable via crafters

I like that the game forces people to focus on synthing in order to have gear for the masses. It makes the game seem more real and the possibility of more choices. In accordance with that, nothing makes me more pleased then knowing "hey you see my gear? i made it all, or an LSmate did". Besides with the lack of storyline quests right now its kind of a bonding point in your linkshells. Our LS makes a sort of mini group event in outfitting new or lower members and we work as a team to supply each other with mats so no one is ever short arrows, weapons, gear, or tools.

I came here to this section, because I knew it was a more appropriate area to post this suggestion. I'm not suprised that I'm being met with resistance, though I do appreciate the overall polite and mature responses and I thank you for that. I still stand by my opinion though. They need to focus on crafting and let me know that is the games direction so that I can find a game more to my liking. Or they need to make this game feel like an epic high fantasy adventure, so that I can rededicate myself to this game and get lost in its immersion. But right now they are trying to cater to both sides too much, and in my opinion is not only ruining the game, it is also not possible to properly implement. We might just have to agree to disagree. One thing is for sure though, the crafting aspects of this game get in my way more often than not.

P.S. NM dropping actual gear and NOT mats please, make my effort worth it and not a disappointment .

I, too, like that the game forces people into playing a boring "class" that they don't want to. I've always enjoyed the suffering of myself and others.

Now seriously, durability needs to go, and crafting classes need a reason to be played other than to produce gear. If that last bit is hurting your brain and your fingers are slipping on the drool covering your keyboard, let me break it down for you: crafting needs to be fun.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I assume you're the type of guy that likes to grind endlessly on field monsters after doing all your regional guildleves and totally avoid crafting and gathering... It is true, no one would have been able to progress if no one crafted, the way it is now. However, thats just the way it is. Go craft :)

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Not everyone like crafting you know? I'm not a crafter, sometimes it pisses me off when i need to search for ppl that can repair my gear. And i always buy all gear from Wards.

and btw. lots of crafting materials that i got through battles (that's my most activity beside quests and storyline which are on the first plain, and battles on second) are usually sold by me to NPC, or given away. Only small amount goes to wards (i need to make the money somehow to buy new gear and stuff)

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

crafting needs to be fun.

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Now that I've read that hmm maybe they should get away with the current crafting process and make it some mini-games instead? it would be fun to play them and the reward would be the item crafted.

But still crafting ain't for me, i hate the whole idea of gathering tons of thousands of mat's to make item to make other items to make the gear i want... I'm simple person, i just love to have some money source and then go and buy the ALREADY done gear from wards, or get it as a reward.

why does it hurt you to have it this way? sell the materials you get from your nm killing, a crafter makes it, you buy it. economy at its finest

Because I don't believe that anyone should be able to craft/buy their way to epic gear. The way it currently is, if a NM drops a mat then it can be sold to a crafter, and the crafter can either craft the epic gear for themsleves or sell it. Either way niether the crafter in question nor the noob that bought it from them deserve to have it because they didn't defeat the challenge necessary to earn it. Now maybe if mats dropped off NMs were bind on pick up and the only thing a crafter could do is craft the gear for themselves, then I could be ok with it. They earned it, they crafted it, and it was not sold to some noob that doesnt deserve it. I also dont mind gear that needs to be upgraded with mats, but I'd like it Limbus style: take the mat and the gear and trade it to an NPC to get it upgraded. I wouldn't trust a crafter with my epic loot if my life depended on it. For them it would be all about money, and it wouldn't matter to them if the synth failed.

Where endgame gear comes from is irrelevant IMO. The issue is dependency on classes the player has no desire to play himself. Yes, a person who crafts has to get shards/crystals from players who play(or bot. ni hao.) combat classes. Its far easier and quicker for a crafter to walk into the wards and buy some shards than it is for the countless DoW/DoM-only players to get their shit repaired.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

Because I don't believe that anyone should be able to craft/buy their way to epic gear. The way it currently is, if a NM drops a mat then it can be sold to a crafter, and the crafter can either craft the epic gear for themsleves or sell it. Either way niether the crafter in question nor the noob that bought it from them deserve to have it because they didn't defeat the challenge necessary to earn it. Now maybe if mats dropped off NMs were bind on pick up and the only thing a crafter could do is craft the gear for themselves, then I could be ok with it. They earned it, they crafted it, and it was not sold to some noob that doesnt deserve it. I also dont mind gear that needs to be upgraded with mats, but I'd like it Limbus style: take the mat and the gear and trade it to an NPC to get it upgraded. I wouldn't trust a crafter with my epic loot if my life depended on it. For them it would be all about money, and it wouldn't matter to them if the synth failed.

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What I don't agree with is the statement that apparently you find killing a NM a bigger challenge than making a Dodore doublet +1(example). In my opinion the challenge in killing an nm is
1:getting to high lvl,
2:learn your class,
3:learn about the mob.

Crafting people also have challenges but it's different.
1:getting toa high lvl, slower than battle, cannot grind because you need mats(which needs a battle or gatherer class).
2:your class, getting good skills through guild marks(keep in mind, crafter can't see if a leve gives guild marks), getting the right gear and right stats just like battle class, learn about synthesis, elements, failures, when to use what skill.
3:making sure everything fits together, the leveling, the skills, the other classes you depend on, the mats, make money to lvl your craft.

So I don't agree with you that the person who kills the NM has more right to have the item. Crafter have a right as well because they can actually do something with it.
I see it as the difference between a hunter and his wife. He goes out,tracks a prey and kills it. He comes home and gives it to his wife. His wife then skins and guts it, and uses the meat to cook and uses the hide to make clothing(which the hunter can use).

Also, I doubt that ffxiv will change the way you want it to. I think so because that is one of the biggest differences between ffxiv and other mmorpg's, the advanced, complex and sometimes pain-in-the-ass-complicated-crafting.

However, I do agree they should look for ways to make crafting more fun. Because I think leveling crafting has set a new boredom standard as far as grinding goes.

As far as not trusting a crafter with your epic loot, that is unavoidable. The game has been designed so classes are very depending on each other. Crafters need gathers and warriors for mats. Warriors and gatherers need crafters for equipments. Crafters need other crafters, warriors need other warriors, and so on. It's that dependency that is a foundation underneath this game, and intended as a certain balance.

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Originally Posted by TheBullet

As far as not trusting a crafter with your epic loot, that is unavoidable. The game has been designed so classes are very depending on each other. Crafters need gathers and warriors for mats. Warriors and gatherers need crafters for equipments. Crafters need other crafters, warriors need other warriors, and so on. It's that dependency that is a foundation underneath this game, and intended as a certain balance.

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And that is one of the biggest qualities of this game. I love this system (crafting should be more fun, agreed), but the economy that's present in this game is like none of the others.

If you don't like to craft, don't craft - But you'll have to rely in crafters as much as you have to rely on your warrior friends to kill the NMs. Why would the crafters be penalized just cuz you don't like it? (sry if im being rude)

I'm just saying that if they remove durability, the need of repairs, and give the armors as drops, what point is there to crafting? It means, you have what you want, but crafters have nothing. It just seems kinda selfish to me.

And since this is an MMO, this kind of dependency is just brilliant, don't you think? Get some crafters friends :D check your LS and, you know, be friends with someone and gain his trust. In real life, you trust the stores where you buy your clothes right? You don't simply kill a mosquito and a sweater falls off XD

I don't really expect it to change too much. I would still like to see less frequent repairs, which I do think will come. They have already reduced it some, and I think they will adjust it more soon enough. And I say thank God. I am also hoping that they offer at least a healthy mix of gear drops and mats. That way I will be able to interact with crafting classes as little as possible. I don't hate crafters, I just think it was a mistake to ever have this type of mechanic in an MMO ever. My perfect MMO would have a static economy that would only include NPC vendors that sold consumables and some basic gear sets every 10 levels or so. Everything else would be gotten through quests/endgame. And crafters would not exist........ oh I can dream dang it.

@TheBullet:
Agree to disagree?!?! Its like your speaking a foreign language to me, I just dont get it at all. Why anyone would want crafting is a mystery to me.

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Originally Posted by SirEdeonX

In real life, you trust the stores where you buy your clothes right? You don't simply kill a mosquito and a sweater falls off XD

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LMFAO. I swear this is how some people think. The tunnel vision of some people is just absurd. If some people would rather go and play WOW, they should go play WOW, right? The real time economy of this game is crazy. I'm glad though that the damage to gear has been greatly reduced/greatly increased dependent on class and Rank. Once more quests and events are added for Crafters things will take off even more.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

I don't really expect it to change too much. I would still like to see less frequent repairs, which I do think will come. They have already reduced it some, and I think they will adjust it more soon enough. And I say thank God. I am also hoping that they offer at least a healthy mix of gear drops and mats. That way I will be able to interact with crafting classes as little as possible. I don't hate crafters, I just think it was a mistake to ever have this type of mechanic in an MMO ever. My perfect MMO would have a static economy that would only include NPC vendors that sold consumables and some basic gear sets every 10 levels or so. Everything else would be gotten through quests/endgame. And crafters would not exist........ oh I can dream dang it.

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You don't want an MMO if all you do is talk to NPCs, you want a single player RPG lol
This system allows you to expand your community. Don't you think that's cool? The way your friends can create the gear you use. The way they can help you by repairing your stuff or even craft things for you to use?

That's why I'm playing this game. This game doesn't have players - it has a community. Where everyone is together. No other MMO around (except FFXI) has one like this. In other MMOs you just have to be the greatest ever, without any help. In here you grow up not only as a player, but as a person too.

This is the perfect MMO community. The game is truly fine. We just need more content so we have a lot more stuff to do :D

Your wrong. I do not want a single-player rpg. I want an MMO that FOCUSES on high fantasy adventures. I need a few things in an MMO:
1. Fun Battles.
2. Comradery (wont get that in a single player rpg).
3. Loot (by this I mean actual gear drops).
4. Epic Storylines.

So far FFXIV only holds the promise of #4. I have every faith in SE to excel at #4 and to creat some great content. But because of the current crafting system I'm a bit worried about #3. And because of lack of party dynamics and strategy, and lack of class uniqueness I'm worried about #1 and #2. Also the way the battle system is, will indirectly effect #2, due to less chatting which in my opinion lessens community and communication vastly more so than crafting interactions.

Crafting has, and always will be, a side chore. I understand that SE wanted it to be on the same scale as leveling an actual job. But let's face it: No one starts an MMO and says "Yeah! I'm going to be an epic blacksmith!"

In most MMOs, crafting is meant to be a side thing we do in between leveling. XIV's crafting system is cumbersome, takes too long, and ultimately isn't fun. It's even more annoying that XI's crafting system. So at this point, they have actually defeated their own purpose.

I completely agree with the OP. There is far too much emphasis on crafting. It takes away from my time adventuring to sit down and craft. At this point, I just try to avoid it all together. It isn't fun in the slightest. If it were a lesser part of the game, I wouldn't mind dabbling in it. But the idea to turn crafts into a class that equals in importance to a real class is simply laughable. Or it is, at least, until you realize that it actually happened. Then it just gets annoying.

So yeah. I won't be crafting until they fix some stuff.

Did someone need an epic blacksmith?

Battlers are going to have to get used to not being directly paid by the mobs. Crafters are not second class citizens to you.

No...... but I would like the Epic Dragon Armor of Invincible Leetness, and the War Hammer of the Thunder Gods! Direct drops off of Bahamut and Odin respectively.

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Originally Posted by Heartfire

Crafting has, and always will be, a side chore. I understand that SE wanted it to be on the same scale as leveling an actual job. But let's face it: No one starts an MMO and says "Yeah! I'm going to be an epic blacksmith!"

In most MMOs, crafting is meant to be a side thing we do in between leveling. XIV's crafting system is cumbersome, takes too long, and ultimately isn't fun. It's even more annoying that XI's crafting system. So at this point, they have actually defeated their own purpose.

I completely agree with the OP. There is far too much emphasis on crafting. It takes away from my time adventuring to sit down and craft. At this point, I just try to avoid it all together. It isn't fun in the slightest. If it were a lesser part of the game, I wouldn't mind dabbling in it. But the idea to turn crafts into a class that equals in importance to a real class is simply laughable. Or it is, at least, until you realize that it actually happened. Then it just gets annoying.

So yeah. I won't be crafting until they fix some stuff.

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Just because crafting always has a side chore doesn't mean it should stay that way.

Back when the first ever game was developed on the pc it was a side chore, and now we have people who use their pc only for games.
There are countless examples in history of things that used to be a 'side chore' but became the main focus of people.

I disagree with your statement of "No one starts an MMO and says "Yeah! I'm going to be an epic blacksmith!"". I've seen a lot of people in ffxiv who have multiple crafting jobs at rank 30 and 40 but their battle job is at rank 20 only. They value the crafting more than the battles, else they would have had higher rank battle classes.

So why is it that you don't often hear people say "Yeah! I'm going to be an epic blacksmith!"? Because they often don't have the chance. How many mmo's are out there that will allow you to be an epic blacksmith, and just that? Most of them allow you to be an epic blacksmith, but only if their fighting skill/level/rank is also 'epic'.

But now there is ffxiv, and crafting can be your main focus, and you can become an epic blacksmith. And what do we see?
We see people choosing that path.

I applaud the developers for this. They tried something new and they were even nice enough not to make crafters the main focus of the game, but have battle classes at equal height. I'm not saying their execution was/is flawless, but without innovation and trying out new ideas we would still be in the stone age.


Yes, I do agree crafting need improvements. It would be nice if it was made more fun(that's true for the complete game actually). But to degrade crafting to an 'optional' feature, something to point at and laugh, never!.

Crafters are second class citizens......... or at least they should be. A better way to put that would be to say that crafting should be secondary and that battle classes should be the focus.

I have no problems with putting crafters on equal footing with everyone else and making that a focus. I also have no problem with NMs dropping mats instead of gear. I only have a problem with balancing the main storyline so that crafters and gatherers can solo it. If you want an epic adventure, level an adventuring class, or find some folks who did to go with you.

Right now we can't have any epic storyline battles because crafters wouldn't be able to do them >_>

It's funny about how people want their own opinion to be the one and only absolute rule in the galaxy. Fact: You don't like to craft but someone else does. There are MMORPGs out there that are dedicated to crafting, some even has only crafting. Some guy on Entropia Universe sold his asteroid and the facilities within it for $650,000 total (which is 100% legal in that game) and is one of that game celebrity, not because he killed some big fat boss. EVE has almost everything player crafted, most sand-box games do. So no, statement like nobody want to become a blacksmith, epic or not, is absolutely false. FFXIV isn't a sand-box game, but doesn't mean it has to be 100% against crafting either. Compromise, make NM drop both direct loot and material. If someone is unhappy with compromise, then they will be unhappy with anything and everything. You are not the absolute being, get over it.

I think my two main Linkshell's are weird.

Most of us spend a lot of time hanging around at our favorite spot in Ul'dah, crafting, gathering materials, sharing what we make, repairing other people's stuff, and generally having lots of fun with the whole crafting and gathering process. Never ever had a problem getting something repaired, or finding a friend of a friend who could do the job.

When more members are online, we also get together to do regional leves and occasionally even hunt NMs.

I think we have a really nice, well balanced group of people.
This is my first MMO and I thought this was what it's all about. But maybe we're just weird?

Honestly, I do think it is wierd, but to each their own. Like I said before, I don't hate crafters, I just wish there was less focus on it becuase it seems counter-productive to my ADVENTURE. However, even though I am the absolute being^.~ (couldnt resist), I can compromise.
1. Reduce durability to where I can grind a full RL 8 hr day before I even need to worry about gear damage.
Thats not eliminating repair/durability, its just making it acceptable.
2. Either create seperate adventures/quests for DoH and DoL than those of Battle classes OR don't design adventures/quests/missions/main story/endgame with DoL and DoH in mind.
I am not trying to exclude DoH and DoL, but as someone else said you cant have epic content if it needs to be dumbed down to keep DoL and DoH in the loop.
3. I would be fine with a healthy mix of crafted and dropped gear.
So if I defeat NM X, it should drop 1 rare mat and 1 rare gear. And I guess let the gear drop and the finished product of the mat be equal in stats, but different in looks. Not to mention other things like dying or signing the crafted items.
Fair enough?