Is Hydaelyn a primal?

It's just, she's referred to as a primal by Ifrit, and we collect crystals for her much like the Beastmen do to power up their primals.

Are we tempered by hydaelyn? o.O

We don't know what hydaelyn is exactly she has some kind of tempering ability, linked to the echo that protect us from other primals, but don't seem( to be able ? )to control us.

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Originally Posted by lololink

We don't know what hydaelyn is exactly she has some kind of tempering ability, linked to the echo that protect us from other primals, but don't seem( to be able ? )to control us.

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We could very well believe we have freedom of choice only because our master tells us we do.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

We could very well believe we have freedom of choice only because our master tells us we do.

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So she tells us to stand in our inn, que up for dungeons, cap sold, never talk to anyone? :P

from what I have seen it seems that she is the giant crystal in the flow of aether below Eorzea, only by our contact have we been given the power of the echo and the immunity to tempering (remember this happens at the start of the story, even 1.0 from the "hear, feel, think, which is Hydaelyn" But I don't think she is a primal as we know them, the closest thing we worship to the primals is the twelve, as they can be summoned, and given at least a partial corporeal form as seen in the end of an era, and was a big part of the end of the 1.0 story. It's also touched upon in the story when some from Little Ala Mhigo wanted to summon Rhalgr that if completely summoned the twelve could even posses the power to temper. So yeah I don't think Hydaelyn is a primal as we know them but perhaps something more than them.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

So she tells us to stand in our inn, que up for dungeons, cap sold, never talk to anyone? :P

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That...Actually makes a lot of sense. >A>()

Well not much is known now since 2.2 didn't cover much. As we go farther into 2.X storyline every 3 months (3 months per Major Update) we may learn more.

and then sometime after 2.4, 2.5, or 2.6 if we still don't have the answer we may get it in 1st expansion storyline since Yoshi-P did say he wants to release expansion within 2 years after release.

I think technically she is, but I'm not sure if it will ever be discussed.

I mean she acts as the saving deity to the Hyur/Roegdayn/Miq'ote/Lalafell in the same way that the other Primals do to their respective beastmen. We gather her enough crystals, she comes and buffs us up to annihilate our foes.

We probably have been tempered by Hydaelyn, we just don't know it.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

from what I have seen it seems that she is the giant crystal in the flow of aether below Eorzea, only by our contact have we been given the power of the echo and the immunity to tempering (remember this happens at the start of the story, even 1.0 from the "hear, feel, think, which is Hydaelyn" But I don't think she is a primal as we know them, the closest thing we worship to the primals is the twelve, as they can be summoned, and given at least a partial corporeal form as seen in the end of an era, and was a big part of the end of the 1.0 story. It's also touched upon in the story when some from Little Ala Mhigo wanted to summon Rhalgr that if completely summoned the twelve could even posses the power to temper. So yeah I don't think Hydaelyn is a primal as we know them but perhaps something more than them.

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Anyone tempered by a primal is immune to the tempering of another primal, hence Ifrit's confusion when he is unable to temper us. And the crystals gives the primals the power to exist in our world, much like Hydaelyn needs that same very power to come forth and help us in our time of need. But I guess it's hard to really know until they explain further.

It would be very interesting to know if she is using us, and the Arcons know of this and are trying to prevent it. It would sort of be like a red herring.

Each Primal has an aspect.
Ifrit is fire. Garuda is wind. Titan, earth. Etc.
Each of the Twelve also have an aspect, though most are abstract.
Halone is Fury. Menphina is Love. Althyk is Time. Etc.

So if Hydaelyn is a Primal, what would its aspect be? Freedom? Adventure? Creation itself?

Freedom fits with how our characters seem to be untempered. In actuality, our characters would belong to Hydaelyn, but are essentially doing as we see fit. However, Freedom and Adventure seem like they might step on Oschon's toes.

My money's on Hydaelyn being a primal. The Garleans are right.

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Originally Posted by Bladeglory

Each Primal has an aspect.
Ifrit is fire. Garuda is wind. Titan, earth. Etc.
Each of the Twelve also have an aspect, though most are abstract.
Halone is Fury. Menphina is Love. Althyk is Time. Etc.

So if Hydaelyn is a Primal, what would its aspect be? Freedom? Adventure? Creation itself?

Freedom fits with how our characters seem to be untempered. In actuality, our characters would belong to Hydaelyn, but are essentially doing as we see fit. However, Freedom and Adventure seem like they might step on Oschon's toes.

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Hydaelyn's aspect is Light. The Ascians worship the dark crystal. This is a struggle between light and darkness, but not necessarily good vs. evil.

Yugiri is Hydaelyn spread the word

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Originally Posted by Chasely

Hydaelyn's aspect is Light. The Ascians worship the dark crystal. This is a struggle between light and darkness, but not necessarily good vs. evil.

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...well, I suppose it is a Square Enix game. Light does mean more than brightness to them.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

My money's on Hydaelyn being a primal. The Garleans are right.

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If that the case then one of my assumptions may be correct being that if the Gods and Goddess in FF14 world are Primals then all life in the world are created by Primals.

This would also mean the most powerful Primals have the ability to create life.

Hydaelyn is an Elder Primal, that's the only explanation. If you notice, the Elder Primals have no need for tempered, and don't seem to go out of their way to get them. We know Odin is an Elder Primal, as is Bahamut, neither of which actively get people to worship them, they merely exist. Though it could be possible that they represent specific wishes, desires, or legends like the other primals given form. Good King Mog taught us that Primals don't necessarily have to be real creatures (he was a legend to the moogles), so it's possible that Odin is merely a legend come to life, Bahamut is the desire to destroy that all living creatures have, and Hydaelyn is the thought that the world is inherently good and has a mind of its own.

T7 of coil would beg to differ.

Seems more like Hydaelyn is the planet itself or at least the light side of the planet. It's most likely just a equivalent of the goddess from FFXI (forgot her name) while the dark god the Ascians work for is the "Promathia" of FFXIV. Won't be surprised if we're dragged into this whole light vs dark war where both sides try to destroy the other just for it to turn out that due to some "balance" sort of issue if one destroys the other side they're destroyed too or something like as long as one exists the other will exist to balance it out.

I wonder if people would be so quick to regard what is obviously the planet's consciousness as a 'Primal' if Ferne had written Ifrit and Garuda's dialogue differently so that they didn't ramble on about the player 'being already claimed by another' when they tried and failed to temper them.

Hydaelyn is not a Primal - Hydaelyn is a crystal, a giant sentient one at that which is the source of all life on the planet, aka, aether (hence why it's also called The Mothercrystal, - it's literally, the 'mother' of every living thing on the planet.) Primals on the other hand are aetheric entities that can only maintain a temporary foothold in the corporeal realm by summoning rites and worship, which is the whole reason they temper in the first place, it guarantees their existence by creating an inexhaustible supply of followers.

As Hydaelyn is already a physical entity it has no reason to temper - tempering is effectively a form of brainwashing, enslaving the affected person and stripping them of free will, leaving them nothing but a mindless zealot to that Primal. The Echo on the other hand leaves a person's free will intact, and only 'awakens' them to various psychic abilities (which tempering clearly does not give). This even more shows that the Mothercrystal is not tempering, but is simply awakening people randomly to the Echo without forcing Her will onto them, merely guiding those granted those abilities to protect the world from the Ascians - 1.0 showed numerous Echo users, many of them not adventurers but regular people, even small children, leaving it up to those so gifted as to how they made use of that power (some were even using it for selfish, personal means completely unconnected to saving the world).

It shows that Hydaelyn was simply granting the Echo haphazardly, hoping that sooner or later someone awoken to the Echo would accept the 'call' (ala, the player) - this is pretty much all but screamed in many of the ARR trailers: "Heed the Crystal's call!"

... beating EX primals explains a bit...

It has something to do with the flow of life itself, coming and going back to its source...
I have some theories about Hydaelyn beeing Zodiark, but with current information its a bit too far, we will see how Hydaelyn slowly corrupt in future patches...

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/14...0/845/tgc9.jpg

Hint: watch carefully the names of the patches!

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

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I was wondering when someone in the thread would say this, thank you

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Originally Posted by lololink

We don't know what hydaelyn is exactly she has some kind of tempering ability, linked to the echo that protect us from other primals, but don't seem( to be able ? )to control us.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

We could very well believe we have freedom of choice only because our master tells us we do.

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Would be a good explanation as to why all we can ever do is "stoically nod" against our will. We certainly have little to no freedom in any of the cutscenes/plot.

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Originally Posted by Gaddes

Would be a good explanation as to why all we can ever do is "stoically nod" against our will. We certainly have little to no freedom in any of the cutscenes/plot.

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As if that's not the first time the player character is nothing but a passive spectator - FFXI did this too (and it was even worse, they literally stood there and said nothing every time). Yet FFXI had nothing even remotely similar to FFXIV's plot device of tempering and Primals, pretty much blowing this theory out of the water. A player character being a passive, silent protagonist has been a common trope in many Square games in the past (*cough* Chrono Cross *cough cough*) so this isn't an exception.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

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Fair enough. But the conspiracy theorist nut-job in me tells me that the only reason we know this is because the Mothercrystal basically told us.

I mean, this could go back, way back to before the adventurers of Eorzea were even a concept on the planet. If you want to classify the primals as their own separate faction of godlike creatures because they tend to be evil, I could still see Hydaelyn as something similar in concept and methods, though instead of tempering, granting the Echo and (in our case) casually nudging us along the path she/he/it desires.

in my opinion i say hydalyn is a primal a primal of light while Zodiark could be a primal of dark and the twelve might be primals of concept sort of like the good king moggle mob who isn't a primal but can come into physical form due to the faith of his moogles (with erosions being the ones providing the faith for the twelve to manifest)

All I remember is during our first encounter with Ifrit at the beginning of the story he said something about us belonging to another. This was when be was trying to temper us before the fight. So in a way, I'd say yes. We're tempered, but I don't think it's at the level the other primals are (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Leviathan, and Ramuh). It's not as fanatical.

I'm going to guess that since Hydaelyn is a giant damn crystal and this is a final fantasy that she is the singular entity to which all life on Eorzea returns and comes forth from. I would liken her closer to a God than a primal, although I'm sure primals and her have some common characteristics. Then again, humans share certain characteristics with trees, that doesn't make them human.

Isn't Hydaelyn the planet itself?, I guess that every time a Primal is summoned it removed the Aether from the planet, I assume we are on a mission to return the Aether "to the lifestream".

In a couple of the cutscene the Ascian's suggest that Hydaelyn and all life is doomed because the primals are slowly killing her.

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Originally Posted by MercuryAcetylene

T7 of coil would beg to differ.

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I said ACTIVELY, as in going out of their way to get them. That one came to Bahamut due to the player's actions in the finale of 1.0, remember? Bahamut didn't do a damn thing to pull him there...or the other one.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I said ACTIVELY, as in going out of their way to get them. That one came to Bahamut due to the player's actions in the finale of 1.0, remember? Bahamut didn't do a damn thing to pull him there...or the other one.

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It's different though

Nael the original is gone, Bahamut didn't temper his female copy rather he reconstructed the last remaining remnants of Nael. The copy was born through Bahamut so she never entirely had a her own will without some of his influence.. Being his creation and all, there's never any sign of her regarding Bahamut with respect based off what I've read.

Hydaelyn is not a primal. She is the goddess of the world in which we dwell. Just like altana, zodiark is also a god. And with the weakening of Hydaelyn within our world he grows stronger. It is through this he will make a return.

There are gods and then there are primals, you select a god with whom your char is affiliated with when you make your character. Said gods and goddesses come from Hydaelyn. Please do not mistake the mother crystal for a primal.

That whole we're tempered thing...

I do rememeber Hydaelyn asking me:
"Would you kindly save the day?"
"Would you kindly speed run WP"
"Would you kindly glamor your allagan visor to look like your myth hat"..

And then I kinda just did...

If they follow the creativity of FFXI she could actually have a physical manifestation beyond just being the planet or Mothercrystal.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

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In actuality once a primal has had enough crystals to be called into the corporeal world they no longer require crystals to sustain their existence, only to heal and replenish them should they get injured. When we meet Hydaelyn she is in a very diminished state, she has very little to no powers and requires us to go out and collect these crystals to rejuvenate her. And Menfila has stated in 1.0 that no one ever asked for the Echo, Hydaelyn in a sense did sort of forced the echo on whomever she felt fit, which is very similar to how Primals go about choosing their hosts. Much like how Ifrit told us to bathe in his flames, Hydaelyn had us bathe in her light. There was never any choice in the matter.

I also don't agree that Hydaelyn is the source of all life on the planet, because that would be drawing a parallel between her and a god/diety of her realm. In which she would omnipotent, and self-sustaining and wouldn't really need us to collect crystals for her. Also every beastman tribe refers to their primal as a god, or father/mother. It doesn't really mean that they are their creators, more like guardians, and protectors much like parents would be.

And tempering doesn't exactly mean that the host is stripped of all their freewill, it merely suggests that it converts individuals them to follow their cause. Much like how our test in life was to do everything Hydaelyn asked of us since arriving here in Eorzea. A tempered host does not need to force their will upon anyone, they follow willingly. And I've never heard of anyone using the Echo for entirely selfish reasons.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

In actuality once a primal has had enough crystals to be called into the corporeal world they no longer require crystals to sustain their existence, only to heal and replenish them should they get injured. When we meet Hydaelyn she is in a very diminished state, she has very little to no powers and requires us to go out and collect these crystals to rejuvenate her. And Menfila has stated in 1.0 that no one ever asked for the Echo, Hydaelyn in a sense did sort of forced the echo on whomever she felt fit, which is very similar to how Primals go about choosing their hosts. Much like how Ifrit told us to bathe in his flames, Hydaelyn had us bathe in her light. There was never any choice in the matter.

I also don't agree that Hydaelyn is the source of all life on the planet, because that would be drawing a parallel between her and a god/diety of her realm. In which she would omnipotent, and self-sustaining and wouldn't really need us to collect crystals for her. Also every beastman tribe refers to their primal as a god, or father/mother. It doesn't really mean that they are their creators, more like guardians, and protectors much like parents would be.

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I guess it all comes down to perspective, so you're right about that in one way. However, there is clearly a difference between aetheric entities like Primals, and the Mothercrystal itself - and that says nothing about exactly what the Twelve are too, if they even exist (Gaius certainly didn't see any distinction between the Primals and the Twelve during his big 'the reason you suck speech' in the Praetorium).

Perhaps there really is a certain truth to what he was saying all along, that the Primals and the Twelve are both 'false gods', just aetheric entities sucking the aether from the world to survive, where as the Mothercrystal is the real 'god' in the world (and if that Echo vision of the 'dark crystal' in the ending is anything to go by, that does fit into the Ascians' belief in Zodiark being the 'one true god' (if the Dark Crystal is Zodiark for that matter) - that would simply make Hydaelyn and Zodiark two sides of the same coin - virtually the same entity, just one light and the other dark (and would very much fit into the standard FF concept of 'light vs dark', ala FFIII). It's an interesting concept in any event.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

And tempering doesn't exactly mean that the host is stripped of all their freewill, it merely suggests that it converts individuals them to follow their cause. Much like how our test in life was to do everything Hydaelyn asked of us since arriving here in Eorzea. A tempered host does not need to force their will upon anyone, they follow willingly.

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Because they don't have too - when we see tempering in action (ala, Ifrit), the struggling captives immediately become zealous towards the Primal, and are regarded as being like that forever. It's what Thancred repeatedly stated, that tempered, despite being innocent victims, are henceforth a danger to the citystates as the Primal draws it's power from their now zealous worship (and hence because there isn't any way to reverse the process, they have to be executed).

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

And I've never heard of anyone using the Echo for entirely selfish reasons.

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I mentioned this in another thread recently in the Lore section, but it happened in 1,0 in the Path of the Twelve - speaking to some of the npcs in there (especially when you were given leave to decide whether to join or not), some of the other 'woken' there mention how the Echo either drove them to despair, resulting in them committing less than satisfactory acts (like they guy who lost his wife to another man, whom he admitted 'the Echo helped him kill'), or that they used their power for their own advantage.

In particular, one boasted his Echo-given mastery over language he had used for financial profit, almost proudly - it definitely goes against the sense of altruism Minfilia was trying to promote.

How can you honestly deny Hydaelyn having created everything, the planet is named after her.

In actuality once a primal has had enough crystals to be called into the corporeal world they no longer require crystals to sustain their existence, only to heal and replenish them should they get injured. When we meet Hydaelyn she is in a very diminished state, she has very little to no powers and requires us to go out and collect these crystals to rejuvenate her. And Menfila has stated in 1.0 that no one ever asked for the Echo, Hydaelyn in a sense did sort of forced the echo on whomever she felt fit, which is very similar to how Primals go about choosing their hosts. Much like how Ifrit told us to bathe in his flames, Hydaelyn had us bathe in her light. There was never any choice in the matter.I would think she would be weak considering all that came into fruition before our coming. A moon did fall on the planet and it still is on the process of recovering.we gather the crystals in order to banish the approaching darkness, not to feed her is how I took it.

I also don't agree that Hydaelyn is the source of all life on the planet, because that would be drawing a parallel between her and a god/diety of her realm. In which she would omnipotent, and self-sustaining and wouldn't really need us to collect crystals for her. Also every beastman tribe refers to their primal as a god, or father/mother. It doesn't really mean that they are their creators, more like guardians, and protectors much like parents would be. the tribes men do this with both free will and tempered will, but it does not mean a primal is on the same level as a god. If you deny Hydaelyn as the creator then all of the lore of eorzea means nothing

And tempering doesn't exactly mean that the host is stripped of all their freewill, it merely suggests that it converts individuals them to follow their cause. Much like how our test in life was to do everything Hydaelyn asked of us since arriving here in Eorzea. A tempered host does not need to force their will upon anyone, they follow willingly. And I've never heard of anyone using the Echo for entirely selfish reasons. play the amal'jaa tribe quest to see how much free will temper individuals have, and as mentioned in 1.0 the echo was used for ill-gotten gains.

I am having sudden memories of a bloke who denied Haku's gender as male because Haku's looks female..

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

If they follow the creativity of FFXI she could actually have a physical manifestation beyond just being the planet or Mothercrystal.

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I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were Minfilia, but there'd be a lot unexplained about how she doesn't understand how to utilize her power.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

the struggling captives immediately become zealous towards the Primal, and are regarded as being like that forever.

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Interesting, since those who are devoted to Hydaelyn's cause are similarly always devoted to that cause. You don't see the scions ever wavering in their beliefs and you even see them pray similarly in some cutscenes. That big ass crystal may not actually be a primal, but whether the writing team knew it or not there are a lot of potential similarities to draw between primal followers and crystal followers. Ignoring how other games like FFXI remove your sense of choice in your actions (because let's just focus on this game for this discussion shall we?) there are a lot of great arguments that could be made for parallels in the crystal's followers and the primals' followers, and your own character's silent compliance with everything.

In all honesty, there is little to no chance that hydaelyn is actually tempering people the way the primals are, mostly just because SE's approach to the story is very simple-minded and boringly straight-forward, and such a revelation would make things a lot more complicated and force people to question the actions they've been doing so far. If it was another company then perhaps that could've been a cool twist... but in this current situation I heavily doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

-snippidy-

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As much as I would like to take everything that happened in 1.0 as canon, I simply cannot because it has been chopped up into little pieces and reorganized so many times. Like if you started in Uldah, you met the flower girl being only about 9 or 10 in age by appearance and the Miquote (Desert Flower) with Thancred, whom you save from the thrashing Goobbue. And in the aftermath you meet Minfillia on the same day who introduces the Echo to you. Now 2.0 is trying to say that Minfilia IS that flower girl you saved... and somehow between the time you saved her and you met her again on the same day she grew two large breasts and aged 10 years. It's clear that much of what happened (Besides the plot surrounding Dalamund) has been changed without much care for what was told in 1.0. Which leads me to believe that some dialogue that you could or could not have chosen to read would be taken with any more care as the main plot of the game.

We also didn't need to collect crystals for Hydaelyn in 1.0 to make her stronger, she just was behind the scenes granting us the echo when it would suit her agenda.

And also, when others were tempered it was done so while being held against their will and subjected to some horrific and frightening beast who wished nothing more than to enact revenge toward those who would defy him. Each primal is portrayed differently and thus those tempered act in a way that primal would prefer, and Hydaelyn approached us with a far more calmer demeanor and preached reason, and her will for the greater good before "Bathing" us in her light. Sort of reminds me of Bhunivelze in FF13-2 who did the very same thing, and while had good intentions went about things in a less than savory way behind the scenes. We may be bent to follow Hydaelyn's will, but given freedoms to still do things we wish. Which would explain why we went out of our way to do everything some floating crystal told us to do after forcing us to pass out.

Welp -throws the plot in the incinerator and changes the planets name to "planet"-and this ladies and gents is why when writing a story you need to have your thoughts together or else misinformation becomes fact, and different interpretations are born. FF13 being notorious for this.

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

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I forgotten where but I believe SE already explained 1.0 Ul'dah storyline...

Ul'dah 1.0 story takes place in the Echo itself. The Warrior of Light has been completely unaware that all the events in Ul'dah 1.0 story is simply the echo reflecting past events in Ul'dah set before the Primals were released from their seal in Silvertear lake 10 years before the 1.0 storyline. You meet Minfillia in Ul'dah grown up because during that time the Echo was not sending you a vision of a past event.

The three city-state story in 1.0 are all set 10 years before 1.0 timeline through the Echo.

1.0 gridania story covers how Gridania began to open their gates to outsiders 10 years before 1.0 story.

1.0 Limsa Lominsa story covers how Limsa Lominsa became involved discovering the secret treasure of the Sea Serpent 10 years before 1.0 timeframe which is believed to contain something important to fight against the primals and what happened to the Key that will allow people to find that treasure.

All three stories ends with the sky covered in flames and the primals being released into Eorzea from Silvertear Lake 10 years before 1.0 timeframe.

However, so far they only concluded 1.0 Ul'dah story with 2.1 storyline. SE has yet to conclude the 1.0 Gridania and 1.0 Limsa Lominsa storyline since the question remains about what happened to the kids in 1.0 Gridania's story who served as major characters and what happened to the Key and what is the legendary treausre in 1.0 Limsa story.