Tanking baby

Just my thoughts here, after running atma I've come to the understanding I'm a pretty good tank. I hold aggro on mobs over multiple tanks so I'm above average. The point is in DF I still get treated like shit. Sure I could wait for my badass FC "GnovA" leviathan, but why bother other people when there's a system in place that's faster. I'm not saying I'm awesome, in harder content I suck compared to some I've seen dps ing, but I don't deserve to be treated like shit. My response to this has worked pretty well. If they don't basically do what I say I'm a dick. It's really hurt my late game progress, no t5, only Garuda hm because I won't learn it from a video. It honestly takes me a good 5 wipes on something like titan hm or coil then I have most bosses down but you can't even learn the game without dickheads ruining it

I have to agree.

I Started out as a Main Bard (my character's Name is Robin Locksley..... Kinda makes me a default Archer).

But I leveled a Warrior..... Ever since then, I've been grinding out my tomes as a tank for the insta-queue's.... and yea, I LOVE the insta-queue. And I think I am a good tank, I always hold aggro, I find a way to weave in my Storm's Eye, and Storm's Path combo's... I use my cooldowns appropriately. I can gauge the DPS strength of the party, and pull accordingly..

But the hostility towards the tank is horrible.

My account was recently suspended due to language.... I mean seriously. I have a thick skin. When the attitudes pile up, I think it is justified to respond in kind... BUT I also am not the kind to go around reporting bad language for the sake of it. That's silly. I dont mind a f-bomb here, or any other such, its common language...

But magically my account had a 24 hour suspension.... And I thoroughly believe it was un-merited. I love how SE doesn't even justify it with a letter of foul play or anything..

I'm going to notch it up to my most recent Main Scenario Roullette. Where the OTHER tank was legitimately riding me about gil farming... like is it really so hard to kill some trash here and there when half the group was with me on it? He started getting vocal about it, I responded in kind.... and guess what... next time I log in, I am suspended..

I dont think my attitude has changed at all since August in-game. I think with the magnifying glass on the tanking role. If you don't conform to the elites in a group, you are subject to their aggression, whether it is provoked or not, and they will find anything to make your life hell. Makes me second think playing this game entirely. Awesome game.... the population is toxic, and I fully agree with Naoki

If you have to wipe 5 times to learn content then all you're doing is allowing the echo buff to scale down the difficulty to your level. A good tank should always know what's coming and how to handle it. Going in blind is just lazy and a huge waste of time for everyone else in the group. Not wanting to learn through YouTube is fine but learn with people you know so everyone is prepared to spend some extra time in there. Think about it. If you were playing DPS and just waited 45 minutes to get into an instance, would you be OK spending over an hour in there while your tank learns a 20 min dungeon?

I'm by no means anywhere near Coil (didn'T even set foot in Turn 1 yet, though that's largely due to all groups shouting for "exp only" which I don't feel I have even after watching vids) and I can't understand how so many people have problems?

Granted, I'm tanking since Wow Vanilla and I did progress-raid for a year or-so in each of BC and Wotlk (no server-firsts or anything the like, but serious raiding 3x a week with a static if you will), but not yet have I ever been treated badly in this game. Not even once. I've played several 100s of 4 man dungeons and really never had anyone tell me off or harass me. The "worst" I ever got was "pull more mobs". So it's either you're worse than you think, or your behaviour that is leading to these flames (I can't believe I've only met nice people if supposedly so many people treat you like shit...).
I don't want to judge you or anything, nor am I saying you're a liar, but I just can't believe you're being 100% genuine. There has to be a reason for this, or you're exaggerating.

I have seen stuff like that happen in CT, but when it happened the tanks did always do something hilariously stupid (thats of course NOT a reason to treat someone badly, but I've seen it happen at least).



@ the last posting above: While I agree wiping 5 times is not exactly something that lets you get regarded as a good tank, I have to concur with "learning the dungeon". Unless we're talking high-end content I don't see why a tank would be obligated to educate himself before joining a dungeon. Now, I myself do it, just because it makes me feel more confident and as a tank I think that it's something thats needed to fullfill your role to the fullest. However, most DPS don't bother learning content, so why should a tank need to?
And if you're not okay with spending time with new people in a dungeon then go with your FC, it's as easy as that. Maybe I'm a bit too lenient, but if the group is nice (as in chatting friendly) I don't mind the timer as much. For example I had a WP group earlier with 2 BLM at 2.6k life and a healer with 3 life. We wiped like 3 or 4 times and the dungeon took us over an hour. It was still more fun than most runs that take 15 minutes, since you felt like you accomplished something and helped other people out a lot. That stupid rushing of dungeons is getting on my nerves anyway. I do it with my FC to farm tomes, but if I queue up for random people I don't expect them to be l33t-rush0rZ pros....

I have only once in my tanking career been called out...
and it was for not "tanking" the 2nd boss in Copper Bell Hard Mode.
I promptly said ok, find a new tank, and quit.

But otherwise, I'm always thanked at the end of my runs, even when I was new. (I DF all the time, and always help teach new players how to do things.)\

So, I have no idea what anyone here is talking about.

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Originally Posted by GerMagic

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I'm not elitist at all. I'm not a hardcore gamer, I don't do speed runs and if someones new I do my best to teach them. I do, however, fault people for laziness. We all have access to the internet and it takes 5 minutes to pull up a guide of some sort. No one would ever fault a soldier for doing a bit of recon before attacking, in fact it's beneficial to the whole group to do so. If you're new and/or didn't have a chance to look up the instance then let people know you're new. It's that simple. Just say "i'm new" or "please let me know what I need to look out for". The selfish people who want to speed through everything have the choice to leave or stay and deal with it. If they complain, it was their choice to stay.

If you don't do your part by making people aware or doing some research then you deserve every bad comment directed towards you. I'm sorry but it's true. If i'm finding out you don't know what to do after the 4th or 5th wipe then each one of those wipes was a waste of time and gil for repairs. If people know you don't know what to do, they can explain it to you and save alot of time and money. Also, you'll get alot more positive feedback when you're new and perform better than people were expecting.

I don't know why but I've never had problems tanking in a DF group ever before. In fact, I'm the one who usually ends up teaching or yelling at my team mates telling them to dps this or heal that. If I do yell at them, I usually get 0 commendations, but when I teach, I get all the commendations. I think you just have to be really sure of your skills(spells) and your personal skills, both of which I'm very sure of. Do a bit of quick reading on any guide of the dungeon/instance you are going to join. It's not difficult.

All HM can be done with 1 tanker/healer, no point blaming just one.
I understand the issue with people's attitude in DF. Most of them were CT residents, but were forced into dungeons since CT does not drop a decent amount of ToS. Some of them just don't speak english well enough so they won't explain anything or listen.
I stopped tanking in DF, only PF or FC team.

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Just my thoughts here, after running atma I've come to the understanding I'm a pretty good tank. I hold aggro on mobs over multiple tanks so I'm above average.

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Do not judge other tank on FATE experience. You know, half of those "average" tanks was most likely solo or in random party w/o healer. So why they must bother to actually tank, when Mr.AboveAverage is so eager to do all the work? Esp. at atma fates, where you just need to hit several times for bronze rating and can run away to another fate.

And yes, i think all classes should do their homework before queueing/joining PF and don't waste other's people time with multiple wipes/overly long dungeon runs.

[QUOTE=BazFamrit;1997886]If you have to wipe 5 times to learn content then all you're doing is allowing the echo buff to scale down the difficulty to your level. A good tank should always know what's coming and how to handle it. Going in blind is just lazy and a huge waste of time for everyone else in the group."

I haven't used echo yet. Only thing I've really wiped regular on is coil and em. Any good video gamer goes in and fights the boss. If you unwrap a new video game, put it in and go to YouTube to watch the first boss video you're a tool. Usually after 2 runs the crew quits and I don't wanna run anymore cause they all talk shit. When the new dungeons came out we wiped once on almost every boss. No videos. No one said shit cause it was the first day but it really wasn't hard. If I had that happen today, a whole 5 days after patch, they'd have talked shit the whole way. What ever happened to not pulling out the Manuel till after you get your ass kicked a little?

I'm by no means anywhere near Coil (didn'T even set foot in Turn 1 yet, though that's largely due to all groups shouting for "exp only" which I don't feel I have even after watching vids) and I can't understand how so many people have problems?""

I'm only talking coil and beyond. If your not even doing coil then idk. I actually leveled drg just for coil because they talked so much trash during T1 so now I pre run with my dragoon to learn fights which is a good point by itself since I don't need a video to win with my drg. You guys took the five wipe thing out of context. Titan hm my first time I wiped in DF quite a few times, same for coil with random groups. Now you say waste peoples time. Is that how the creators feel? You think they made the game so rather than learning the mechanics you just watch a video?

Do not judge other tank on FATE experience. You know, half of those "average" tanks was most likely solo or in random party w/o healer.""

I was too lol. The great thing about tank is you can see when they try to provoke off you. The funny thing about playing war and pal is pulling aggro off a Palidin with a war on a single boss. If you've done ct you know saying tanks aren't trying to have pissing test over aggro is a lie

Wow you guys all bombed on me except 2 :) my last 3 brayfloxs hms were 25, 21, 22 min. 22 with my FC. When we did the final boss on city of Ampador I held the party together. I was the one that saw the doors colors and pairs even though I was tanking. They voted to abandon like 3 times about 2 hours after patch. That's being a bad gamer, not trying to learn the fight on your own. And yea, I am a dick to most parties because if you don't check them they whine. Know what I do when I pull aggro with my drg and my 7 hit macro? I backflip to lose aggro or switch targets or stop attacking. What do other dps do? Whine whine whine. Maybe it is me being too mean, I'm just giving what I've gotten though.

thats part of being a tank, take a project manager for example his job is like a tanks too, he gets blamed from both sides.

when u become a great tank, people will want you and i must say that feels great since there little good tanks out there. from the negative comments even tho theyre negative u must look for whats good in them to better yourself u must want to learn. if ur not willing to take advice or take blame itll become very hard to learn to tank well

I completely agree with you, Killabye.

Everyone learns different ways, and not everyone can learn and get the fight down by just watching a video. Do you learn to draw by watching a video on how to draw? No. It takes practice and practice. (I use this example because I'm an artist). I am one of those persons that has to actually do the fight in order to learn it. Sure, I watch videos to get the basics, but you will still make mistakes. Watching a video is not the same as experiencing the fight.

Some people are truly impatient and that's what my problem is, too. I cannot learn the fight because people are just impatient and expect you to know it all. On top of that, they are rude. I've seen this so much once I started playing a tank job (my main has been WHM), and they do get a lot of shit and that's in dungeons, I can't even think about end game as a tank. However, I'm not gonna quit a job I like just because of the toxic community. I pay for the game so I have the right to play the jobs I want.
You can say "just go do it with people you know first" but not everyone is available at the same times. Unfortunately, you have to actually play with strangers in order to get things done, isn't this the reason why this is a MMORPG in the first place? Where did that good experience of meeting new people and downing things together, helping each other out, go? Now everyone is just so... individualistic and selfish.

So all of us have to deal with each other, might as well get along, we both win. Or don't get along and we both stress and lose. People do not deserve to be treated like shit. These are my thoughts.

before all these new dungeons and all we had to farm was wanderers palace, as a warrior tank before the buff people always told me u cant do this u cant do that because youre a warrior, well one of those things was speed running wanderes palace. u know the last hall where u pull everything, i did it with my warrior eventhou everyone said u cant. keep testing ur limit. also enrage mode ppl keep saying u cant do it with 2 tanks, yes u can im proof of that it is not necessary but its a good example

Idk I've seen better than me and worse. My drg was my highest leveled character for a long time. The ones better than me use macros better and talk more, the ones worse are much much worse. That's just on dungeon length and wipes. I mean I have 200 commendations, that's not much but almost all came as tank. This IS my first mmo but I've played all the roles like everyone else. Even when I'm heals or dps they gang up on the tank.

Thank you Tyla lol, it's not that I've never watched a video, I just can't learn a fight by doing it. I don't have that kind of memory. As a tank you get people that haven't watched videos too. I've never told anyone they need to watch a video, I usually won't even give instructions unless they ask. If we wipe once or twice for them to learn that's fine, it's a game for a reason. Personally I'd be mad if I bought a game and beat the final boss first try. If he didn't beat me a couple times then was he really a final boss type of challenge?

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Everyone learns different ways, and not everyone can learn and get the fight down by just watching a video. Do you learn to draw by watching a video on how to draw? No. It takes practice and practice. (I use this example because I'm an artist). I am one of those persons that has to actually do the fight in order to learn it. Sure, I watch videos to get the basics, but you will still make mistakes. Watching a video is not the same as experiencing the fight.

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Noone said, that just video is enough. Nothing beats actual exp, that's what all "learning parties" in PF are about. To learn by exp. It's also ok to try content with a friends or static, going into the fight without any knowledge about it and having fun. What's not fun, is a players, who join farm groups in PF without any experience - that's where they'll be called names and stuff.

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Originally Posted by BazFamrit

If you have to wipe 5 times to learn content then all you're doing is allowing the echo buff to scale down the difficulty to your level. A good tank should always know what's coming and how to handle it. Going in blind is just lazy and a huge waste of time for everyone else in the group.

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Do you look up how to complete every difficult boss fight in a game without even trying your own hand at it first? Just because Final Fantasy XIV is an MMO doesn't make the element of surprise a less exciting part of gameplay.

What would you do if there was no published strategy yet - just wait for one to come out? Because that was the case for the new content a few days ago.

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What would you do if there was no published strategy yet - just wait for one to come out? Because that was the case for the new content a few days ago.

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See above. No published strategy? Don't want to spoil first time? It's ok. Gather your friends, FC, static, whatever. Join learning party in PF. Or make one.

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Originally Posted by FurryFury

What's not fun, is a players, who join farm groups in PF without any experience - that's where they'll be called names and stuff.

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^ This ^

This is the problem I find when I join PF Groups that are supposedly Farm Groups. There's always a couple of people who join it who clearly haven't got the experience needed to farm the content, which is just a waste of everyone else's time.

I'm not one to be rude, in fact I'm very much the opposite. But I do get frustrated when this happens. I did, however, have to give one of my FC mate's a b*ll*cking about going way, way, way too far when we had a DPS join one of our farm groups who'd clearly never attempted the fight before. He was way out of line and I promptly told him so and told him to wind his neck in.

I really don't like watching videos either and enjoy discovering fights and mechanics for myself. We were amongst the first groups on our Server to have beaten the three new Dungeons in 2.2 and learnt the fights and boss mechanics for ourselves (Diabolos :D). It's the same with Coil. Every time anyone is talking on TS about the tactics for the new Turns, I mute my Speakers, as our Static want to do things blind when we can eventually start them.

In other words, it's perfectly acceptable to be new to content, just don't expect people to be too happy if you join a Farm Group in the Party Finder having never attempted the fight before. People do need to be less hostile though, I can definitely agree with that.

Also I just wanna say. youtube is good and all. But its no replacement for actual experience. I've used youtube for lots of mmo's as a tank. and it only helps so much. And in the thick of battle(boss fights) I usually forget all about that video lol. Doing it is better than watching someone else period.

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Originally Posted by BazFamrit

If you have to wipe 5 times to learn content then all you're doing is allowing the echo buff to scale down the difficulty to your level. A good tank should always know what's coming and how to handle it.

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Nobody comes out of mom's womb already potty trained. Reality is, it takes several runs for the muscle memory for any dungeon to set in. As an experienced tank, I also know that if I'm going to be running with YOU for the first time, that I'm going to pace myself on the first few pulls until I've had a chance to adjust to how you play. It's not about echo, it's about those first few derpy runs 'till you physically get used to the anticipations, positioning, dodges, and when to use cooldowns or when you can get by without.

Of course, there are always slews of bad tanks that spent their first 50 levels FATE running where they weren't responsible for pulling their own weight and don't know how to leverage their class properly. They poison the pot when they start queuing for top end dungeons with some bizarre sense of entitlement ('group won't work without me, so you're stuck with me, and I can leave anytime') without ever evaluating their own performance.

Both 'first time in a dungeon' groups will derp their way through the dungeon on the first couple passes. I've derped my way through the ADS fight on turn 1, not because "I didn't know the fight", but because the timing is VERY specific and you need to get a hands-on feel for the rotation cycle. Simply reacting will be too late. It's the bad tanks that don't get better or worse those who have 'already been through the dungeon' and never realize that there's more to tanking than facerolling RoH.

As I said before, if you want to learn as you go that's fine but let people know so they're on the same page. Not everyone has hours to spend holding your hand while you learn. Be respectful of others and you'll get respect in return.

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Originally Posted by BazFamrit

As I said before, if you want to learn as you go that's fine but let people know so they're on the same page. Not everyone has hours to spend holding your hand while you learn. Be respectful of others and you'll get respect in return.

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I remember when both tanks let people know it was just there second time doing it and people left right off the bat because some people just don't have the luxury of time to spend on content for letting new players learn. I've done a few runs of HM(Not the new ones) dungeons and had tanks just doing it for the first time and way more geared then me and having trouble with some of the fight mechanics. It kinda shocked me to see tanks skipping content provided to them in the game. It doesn't matter that it doesn't give you any new gear but it does provide mechanics that sometimes could be turned around and used in future raid content and that's the reason for doing all the dungeons in the game.

Killabye your pretty full of urself for doing absolutely no hard content. Ive been tanking since 2.0 and nvr an treated like shit. and i call ppl out when they fck up. So it is you, you are full of yourself for having nothing to justify it. Dont want to watch vids fine dont expect ppl to tolerate your learning curve of 4-7 month old content, its as simple as that. You want to learn things on your own fine, make a learning group. And idk how you expected not to be thrashed when you started by judging yourself off the biggest joke of content in game.

^ not worth a response. If you get that butthurt and trollhardy over an OP like that, please stop playing.

Generally if it's the first time in a dungeon, i'll say "My first time, tell me what I need to know", then start pulling once the buffs are out. Trash is trash and the routine is pretty much always the same. My second time, I usually just toss out "It's been a while, just let me know if I mess something up." and pull once buffs are out.

Don't sit around and wait for explanations if you've done your proper overview research of the dungeon/bosses (which is a good idea), most tanking is just a matter of routine (collect mobs, maintain threat, maintain overwatch, wait for DPS). Players like "the guy above me" can just rot in a queue, as they aren't doing anyone but themselves favors.

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Originally Posted by Zourin

^ not worth a response. If you get that butthurt and trollhardy over an OP like that, please stop playing.

Don't sit around and wait for explanations if you've done your proper overview research of the dungeon/bosses (which is a good idea), most tanking is just a matter of routine (collect mobs, maintain threat, maintain overwatch, wait for DPS). Players like "the guy above me" can just rot in a queue, as they aren't doing anyone but themselves favors.

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Yeah i do come off like a bit of an asshole but def not butthurt. There are just so many of these "the community is being mean to me and its not my fault" threads that pop up. Want some real advice Killa... get some acc, wonder why your struggling with content like coil, thats why.

I guess I could have rephrased from treated like shit, maybe get blamed for everything would be better. I don't have problems with anything after a couple wipes, and I mean single wipes not full raid wipes. The most would be about tank losing aggro when on the flip side, someone else over did their aggro. Not meaning aoe, meaning healer with regen grabbing instant aggro, melee tanking their own mob, players not switching when it goes yellow, etc. and not bringing it to me. It's a four player game, they can control what they're doing. I've seen monsters go yellow with good aggro and player is sitting their actively trying to take it

Akala, sorry if I pissed you off lol. I completely quit coil for a long time actually so yeah there was a break but I felt coil wasn't fair. I went in brand new and suddenly had to take a crash course in mmo gameplay. I only played it two or three times before quitting and I did watch videos. Our whole FC sucked so it wasn't just me. Cool ass people so I quit cause I felt it was since they blamed everything on me and I could never keep aggro for more than a few seconds. Looking back it wasn't, healer would steal aggro instantly or they attacked before I had position. Leveled drg and t1-4 with a random party but hated drg. So yeah, I'm a couple months late because more experienced players talked trash about me when they were part of the problem. If tank can't even gain initial aggro when decently equipped its not him causing the wipe

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Originally Posted by FurryFury

See above. No published strategy? Don't want to spoil first time? It's ok. Gather your friends, FC, static, whatever. Join learning party in PF. Or make one.

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Like I said , I DF the first three dungeons and killed them all. You don't need a great party or just people you approve of. If the games winning you adjust accordingly. There wasn't even a video when I beat city of Ampador so points moot. I que instantly to so why bother other people? Then they gotta go unlock etc if they asked that's one thing but besides that

And idk how you expected not to be thrashed when you started by judging yourself off the biggest joke of content in game.[/QUOTE]

Sorry it's the only real farming I've done in a long time so I don't really keep track. And yeah, Ive barely started speed running mostly because I assumed I wasn't up for it since everyone always told me I sucked lol prolly woulda been fine to do the whole time but like I said this is my first mmo, I didn't even know there was a SR for a long time. I'm also 32, dunno how old you are but video games today are completely different than anything I've ever played. Considering that I don't feel my learning curve is all that bad