1,000 reasons why Archer/Bard needs a non healer limit

Yes, its practically beating a dead horse at this point, but if we keep beating it, eventually Square will listen(maybe).

Please Lets share horror stories about archers/bards that have used the limit break knowing full in well what it does for them.

In cutters cry during roulette, the bard decided that during chimera, it was a good idea for him to blow the limit break just to heal himself after he failed to get away from the cacophony fast enough, instead of waiting on me to turn to him and heal him. And his reply to everyone "I know what it does. I was low on HP, healer was casting on the tank, so I popped it. whatever."

Who's got worse(and please, don't name names, no one needs to be banned over that rule).

Maybe it's just for balance purposes.
If bards get a dps lb, i am pretty sure many parties will get rid of melees. Range only.

Bard was originally a healer/buffer.

Now he has only partial buffs and a healing LB.

Give him a healing chant, a bufing LB, and everything will be fine. Since then, healing LB is perfect.

Oh yeah, again, bard is not a dps. It has been made that way because there are no support jobs in FFxiv currently.

Make it a support/DoT LB then. My idea for it was an AoE on target (or ground targetted). Each level would increase the range of what it could do. Enemies hit: DoT/Debuffs (perhaps both at lvl 2/3). Allies "hit": small DoH/buff.

And I can give you one reason it doesn't. If the healer(s) are tied up, or even dead. The bard can help the party recover.

I love bards having the healer limit break. Wipe's averted montage when?

LB's as a FF system have always been diverse & unique to the character/class.

To have an identical LB for a ranged Dex damage/support class as a Mind-based healer is pretty lame & uninspired in & of itself.

If anything, I'd make the 'Support' LB hasten the party... and if they wanted to keep some semblance of likeness to the Healer LB, still have it's 3rd variant ressurect the party (so BRD is still capable of preventing a wipe when the healers are down).

It could have a "second wind" type of theme... provide 6/8/10 seconds of +20% skill/spell speed & recover 20% hp/mp/tp over its duration.

BRD has healing LB for balance purposes. As it is now, there is already very little reason to use melee DPS. If BRD had a single target DPS LB, there would be 0 reason to use MNK. DRG might still have a place to boost BRD damage.

You had one bard who decided to blow LB for a stupid reason...how many other times has that happened? Doesnt have to be the bard that does that, anyone could. I did a roulette the other day and ended up on copperbell, we were ignoring the adds and burning boss, the adds finished breaking the walls and ran over, I told the monk to use LB to finish off the boss quickly since the adds would be running at the healer. We had a bard, but he didnt use LB, the conjurer did, because the adds were chasing him and he didnt want to die. But of course they continued to chase him, because we didn't have the LB anymore to finish off the boss quickly, so the healer was busy running around instead of healing.

I've had way more experiences with bards using their LB to save the fight after the healer/s died, than I have with them wasting it.

Give us a crit rate/crit damage buff LB pls. Something along those lines and i'll be happy. The LB as it is now isn't bad, though.. Especially if you're the last one standing and need to pop that LB3.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Oh yeah, again, bard is not a dps. It has been made that way because there are no support jobs in FFxiv currently.

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To be fair, NO CLASS is DPS. DPS is a statistic measure of your damage output. No class is a "damage per second", that's why ff11 had it right by calling them DDs, damage dealers. And yes Bard is a DD class, but at the same time they're not. They're a Damage Support class, or DPS Support if you prefer.

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Originally Posted by Dijana

You had one bard who decided to blow LB for a stupid reason

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If you think that this is the only time I've seen or had anything like this happen, then you are mistaken. That was a single story.

If a bard is forced to limit to save the party from a wipe, then your party is doing something very wrong, or your healers are trash, or your tanks are trash. If preventing a wipe is the only reason anyone can come up with for keeping it, then it's not a good enough reason. As said multiple times, a support type limit would be better for bard that isn't healer limit. A party wide buff or enemy debuff would be excellent. It would stay in tune with the fact that Bards a DPS Support class, designed to provide assistance to their team, while also providing debuffs to the enemy, and having the ability to put out good damage. Giving them a limit that coincides with that would be more fitting to the purpose of the class.

Personally I think they should add a new LB ability, that bards and other support classes would use, casts refresh, regain and regen or something.

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Originally Posted by Rubieus

Personally I think they should add a new LB ability, that bards and other support classes would use, casts refresh, regain and regen or something.

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See that would work too, something that could throw up a temporary super ballad with a few other effects. There are a lot of better ideas for Bard limit then just saying "hey, we'll give them the same limit as healers".

Wishing Bard had a limit that buffed the entire party.


Level 1: +10% damage. 10s
Level 2: +20% damage, 10s
Level 3: +30% damage, 10s

Might be cool for some sort of mp or tp or HP top off (users selection) for lb2 and all 3 for lb3. I would however be highly against it being a dps lb. Give it something supportive since brd is a support class.

Where's the 999 other reasons :(

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Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

1,000 reasons why Archer/Bard needs a non healer limit

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I know that you're hiding things
using gentle words to shelter me
your words were like a dream
but dreams could never fool me...
Not that easily

I acted so distant then
didn't say good-bye before you left
but I was listening
you fight your battles far from me......
Far too easily

'Save your tears 'Cause I'll come back'
I could hear that you whispered
as you walked through that door
but still I swore to hide that pain
when I turn back the pages
Shouting might've been the answer then
what if I cried my eyes out and begged you not to depart
but now I'm not afraid to say what's in my heart....

'Cause a Thousand words
Called out Through the Ages
They'll Fly to you
Even Though I can't see
I Know They're Reaching you
Suspended on Silver Wings

Oh a Thousand Words
One Thousand Embraces
Will Cradle You
Making all of Your Weary Days Seem Far Away
They'll Hold you Forever........

Oh a Thousand Words {One Thousand Words}
Have Never been spoken {Oh Yeah}
They'll fly to you
they'll carry you home {carry you home}
And back into my arms
Suspended on silver Wings {On Silver Wings}

And a thousand words {oohh}
Called out through the ages {called through the ages}
They'll cradle you {oh yeah}
Making all of your lonely years to only days {only days}
They'll hold you forever.........

Ohhhhhhhhhhh

One Thousand Words...

sure, they have time and money at sink to make a LB only for one jobs....

But it wont be... They were thinking of a support role, which bard currently fits. So really this would just be preemptively putting in an LB for when they finish making other classes/jobs for that role.

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Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

To be fair, NO CLASS is DPS. DPS is a statistic measure of your damage output. No class is a "damage per second", that's why ff11 had it right by calling them DDs, damage dealers. And yes Bard is a DD class, but at the same time they're not. They're a Damage Support class, or DPS Support if you prefer.

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Sophistry.

The whole DPS vs DD debate was settled long ago. Perhaps it went to calling them DD (but what do you call DoT classes then?) in FF11, but in the majority of MMO's they were called DPS and have been for well over a decade.

Every class puts out some kind of DPS. Those whose role it is to put out damage primarily, whether it be melee, ranged, nuke, or DoT, are referred to as DPS. Those whose role is not to put out damage, but instead to soak it up, are referred to as Tanks. Those whose role is not to put out damage, but to heal it, are referred to as Healers.

So why not call them DD instead of DPS? Because DD refers to a type of spell, as well : Direct Damage. Also referred to as Nukes, they are damage applied instantaneously after the spell is cast. Their counterpart is the Damage over Time spell, or DoT. These spells do damage gradually, over the course of the spell effect.

DPS refers to what those classes do, and is also the measure of how well they do it. DD may refer to what some classes do, but it does not refer to how they all do it.

Where's the 1000 reasons?

You know what these archer's LB should be changed into ?

I am the bone of my sword
Steel is my body and fire is my blood
I have created over a thousand blades
Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
Have withstood pain to create many weapons
Yet, those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, unlimited blade works.

I dont think a buffing LB would be good even if it did exist. Many fights, the ones where you'd actually WANT an LB, it's not built up until late in the fight, at which point you're probably not getting the most out of it. If the buff could produce more overall dps during it's (short) duration than the instant dps LB, then that might be another matter, but if you've got your LB that you're either holding for a specific part (titan heart, ifrit nails, etc) because you need to take something down quick, you'd want to use the LB that does instant damage and not waste time. Or you'd want the healer LB for when things go wrong, because sometimes its not a case of 'tanks are bad, healers are trash,' sometimes things just go bad thanks to bad luck, or someone DC's at a really bad moment, or someone just makes a genuine mistake that doesnt necessarily make them bad.

If we're just saying bards should have DPS LB instead of healer...why? There's plenty of classes that can already do dps lb's, and only 2 (1 pre-30) that can do healer aside from bard.

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Originally Posted by Steffie

You know what these archer's LB should be changed into ?

I am the bone of my sword
Steel is my body and fire is my blood
I have created over a thousand blades
Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
Have withstood pain to create many weapons
Yet, those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, unlimited blade works.

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So... a rogue, since thats what Fate's archers are based off of.

I think the real problem (the 1001 reason) should be just bcoz HEALER LB is not good enough especially on Lv1/2 ^^;
IMO, Lv1 already should have to restore everyone HP 100%, Lv2 maybe HP/MP/TP 100% and remove all debuffs, Lv3 ofcoz saving the world reraise with full HP/MP/TP without weaken.

A bard using a healer LB is probably a bad idea cuz more than half the time everyone will die due to the the fact that the healers will be low on MP to burst heal and buff everyone.
Bards can't heal the party like a healer can.
So y share the same LB if there is a big difference between the 2 classes.
sch/whm =\= bard
Sch/whm LB = bard LB
Logic is pretty wonky lol right?
Make the bard's LB a buffing thing!

So... just ask the Bard not to be a stoopadhed.

For the whole "Bard is not a dps" argument, this isn't FFXI! Many of us liked FFXI (even me) and enjoyed Bards being a buffing class in that game. This is FFXIV however, Bards are mostly dps in this game or you could say hybrid at most. Their *main* job is DPS in this game. I agree that hasn't always been the case in other games, but it's the case here. No wishful thinking or nostalgia of old is gonna change that! :P

That said, I think a healing limit break is fine. It could use some tweaking though... How many healers even actually use a level 1 or level 2 version? If the heal went off quicker it might be more useful. Think of the dps limit break, it does *many* times the normal attack damage. The healer limit breaks merely does as much as one or two of a white mage's aoe healing spell with a much longer cast time (meaning they could have just as easily done a AOE heal twice without using the limit break!).

If you want to argue for the more support-y aspect of a bard, why not a buffing limit break as someone else said? The clutch limit break 3 rez when used by a bard isn't exactly something a bard should even do. I have used it as bard on maybe 2 occasions when both healers were dead. Of those 2 times, it saved the party only once. :P In comparison, how many times have I seen the melee limit break used with great success? Basically it was every fight but those two.

Remember when yoshi mentioned, in an interview (find source yourself), adding more hybrid classes in the game? Bard is one of those and will eventually be one the required 1TANK/1HEAL/1HYBRID/1DPS or 2/2/2/2 requirement we will have in the future.

In other words when they implement the other hybrid classes and have a hybrid lb people won't cry out, "WE WANT OUR DD LB BACK!"

As per usual, please look forward to this feature when the addition of new classes come forth in the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Sophistry.

The whole DPS vs DD debate was settled long ago. Perhaps it went to calling them DD (but what do you call DoT classes then?) in FF11, but in the majority of MMO's they were called DPS and have been for well over a decade.

Every class puts out some kind of DPS. Those whose role it is to put out damage primarily, whether it be melee, ranged, nuke, or DoT, are referred to as DPS. Those whose role is not to put out damage, but instead to soak it up, are referred to as Tanks. Those whose role is not to put out damage, but to heal it, are referred to as Healers.

So why not call them DD instead of DPS? Because DD refers to a type of spell, as well : Direct Damage. Also referred to as Nukes, they are damage applied instantaneously after the spell is cast. Their counterpart is the Damage over Time spell, or DoT. These spells do damage gradually, over the course of the spell effect.

DPS refers to what those classes do, and is also the measure of how well they do it. DD may refer to what some classes do, but it does not refer to how they all do it.

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Completely irrelevant post to the subject, but as the person you quoted said, in 11 it was used to mean "Damage Dealer" instead of "Direct Damage"
Obviously this isn't important to the majority of MMO players and I personally have no issue with the DPS tag, it's what the creators chose for us so it's what is right. Just next time you decide to talk down to someone at least read what they said. Ktnxbailuvu!

All I see here is "Bard... Support..."

What? There's no support in FFXIV. period.

As for why Bards have Healer LB, I don't know as well and couldn't care much for it. What I'm thinking is IF and when Musketeers arrive, as the LB's tooltip states, will they get a Healer LB as well considering they're a Range class? Humhum~

First off, it is DPS and not DD. End of discussion. Moving on...

Second off, where are the 1000 reasons?

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Originally Posted by ForteXX

So... a rogue, since thats what Fate's archers are based off of.

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He's on to something, though. Yes, archer dual wielded but thats because archers are an offshoot of the rogue archetype. I could get behind ARC/BRD, not to mention Musketeer getting a limit break that involved continuous damage.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

So why not call them DD instead of DPS? Because DD refers to a type of spell, as well : Direct Damage. Also referred to as Nukes, they are damage applied instantaneously after the spell is cast.

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except most of the people I know call what you call "Direct Damage" "Burst Damage" and still call their DPS classes/jobs DD as in "Damage Dealers" because quite frankly DPS is a BS term when referring to classes/jobs like Arcanist and Summoner. BLM and WHM do Burst Damage spells MNK and WAR do Burst Damage actions
that debate you mentioned was never really settled and it wont be because too many people disagree with your usage of the terms

I'd rather every job have its own different limit break to be honest..

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

I love bards having the healer limit break. Wipe's averted montage when?

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Breakdown of instances when BRD uses LB3 :

3% - The party recovers and goes on to win
2% - The part recovers but ultimately dies later after putting up a valiant struggle
95% - The party wipes again 5 seconds after the limit break

http://newmilford-cthomes.com/wp-con...1000-clear.gif

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I love bards having the healer limit break. Wipe's averted montage when?

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Have fun making that when I bet it almost never happens.

I've seen more wipes averted by damage LBs than the healer ones, which just goes to show that often the best defense is a good offense. Well, that or the healer LBs simply aren't as well designed. Take your pick.

Give us a lb that instantly activates all songs on all pt members, higher gauge for higher potency?

I'm tired of hearing bards wanting to be more aggressive, you're maybe the most overpowered class in the entire game, you're needed in almost every endgame content and do really high dps for a SUPPORT CLASS, yes you're SUPPORT, deal with it. (and yes, i'm 50 bard)

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...al-with-it.jpg