SE's "Ideals"

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They seem very basic and obvious, yet it's not common for companies or developers to lay them out plainly. Remember the housing debacle? They listened. They didn't agree completely, but they made a compromise.

I think Yoshida et al. deserve a bit more trust.

Eff that. Get the pitch forks.

Solid


-Provoke

I am happy that they haven't been corrupted by the western world totally yet. <3

I knew my complaints were worth more.

In a "smaller" scale, they recently also listened to requests on this thread about the shader properties when using dyes.

Notice that in Camate's first message, where he actually explains the current design decisions, it is stated that there were no plans to change it.

The devteam actually discussed and changed their vision to support the player's requests.

So, it happens. Here and there. But it does.

Was this the GDC conference?

5. Do not forget Tanaka-san phone number, call him back and prepare another Meteor.

And let's be real... if they listened to every request on these forums we'd have miq'lalas running around with magical scissors. They take certain requests and go with it, and usually those requests are well formulated and make sense.

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Originally Posted by Nayto

Was this the GDC conference?

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the slides all say "GDC" on the bottom, so im going with yes

I never really had any doubts that they cared, they were pretty amazed and humbled by how many of us signed on for ARR. Given time this already great game will grow to Amazing.

It's true, I will give them that. Despite plenty of design flaws that may have been readily apparent to the players, they have gone back and adjusted them. Whether it's a business decision to keep subscribers happy versus genuinely wanting to listen the players is sort of neither here nor there, the end result is most important.

Just goes to show, if you don't like something, keep complaining en masse, ya never know.

This is what I like to see.
I'm eager to see actions follow words in the months ahead.

I'd also like to post this one;
Which (was one of many reasons FFXIV failed).

However focusing less on the graphical issues and more on the (what they didn't seem to note) design decisions as noted in the other slides.
Departments were let loose to do as they pleased, no strict goals or schedules were made. Some designers (apparently) were sitting for hours on end discussing and arguing over the eye colour for a main character.

The big one, which rings so true was "We can fix it in a later patch" which as Yoshida has mentioned numerous times was what the original team thought they could do with 1.0 on release. "PEOPLE WILL PLAY IT, IT'S FINAL FANTASY, WE CAN FIX IT AS WE GO!"

Taking your brand for granted and hoping the players will be luled into a false sense of security.

Still an interesting slide that was left out tho.

http://i.imgur.com/BLJZinX.jpg


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http://i.imgur.com/77eSZBe.jpg

Another interesting note is that MMO developments usually spam over 4-5 years, the corners cut on visual fidelity, cutscene polishing, extra jobs/classes, content, areas, races, hair-styles and tons more that could be added or adjusted later were all worth the cost.

Lots of content was pushed back with a base game prepared and a future plan set. (To which they are now on their second iteration for 3.0 and onwards with 2 years of content planned)

To have designed a working, fun and stable MMO in 2.8 years is insanely fast whilst updating and maintaining the original version of the game was stunning.

And to have had most of your development team re-trained in modern MMO development and design practices in that time as well. Mental.

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

I am happy that they haven't been corrupted by the western world totally yet. <3

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Lol what exactly does this mean when the company your approving of makes a ton of cash off of those "corrupt" westerners, is corruption somehow erased through the passage of profits?.

Or would that be profiting from dirty money.

If law enforcement takes money from drug dealers and gives it to the needy, does that erase the harm done in the original acquisition of the cash.?

You may say that ignorance erases culpability or gives challenges of integrity a pass, but it doesn't.

While I do not think SE has anything to answer for, profiting from the corrupt, corrupts the seller, especially when their aware of it, and personally I don't see any difference in corruption across the globe today on any point of the compass.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Another interesting note is that MMO developments usually spam over 4-5 years, the corners cut on visual fidelity, cutscene polishing, extra jobs/classes, content, areas, races, hair-styles and tons more that could be added or adjusted later were all worth the cost.

[snip]

To have designed a working, fun and stable MMO in 2.8 years is insanely fast whilst updating and maintaining the original version of the game was stunning.

And to have had most of your development team re-trained in modern MMO development and design practices in that time as well. Mental.

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This is one of things that still amazes me to this day. I don't mean to say that if the devs do something bad I'll let them off because 'oh, they only had 2.8 years. I should cut them slack', but it does mean that - feelings aside - I have an insane amount of respect for the developers.

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Originally Posted by HReincarnate

This is one of things that still amazes me to this day. I don't mean to say that if the devs do something bad I'll let them off because 'oh, they only had 2.8 years. I should cut them slack', but it does mean that - feelings aside - I have an insane amount of respect for the developers.

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Some of the disrespect to the developers that I've seen on this forum seems to stem from that people believe it's the same developers that worked on FFXI when the majority of them didn't.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Some of the disrespect to the developers that I've seen on this forum seems to stem from that people believe it's the same developers that worked on FFXI when the majority of them didn't.

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It must be the disrespect to the minority then.

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Originally Posted by Flickalado

And let's be real... if they listened to every request on these forums we'd have miq'lalas running around with magical scissors. They take certain requests and go with it, and usually those requests are well formulated and make sense.

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but i wanna see miqlala Q_Q (but how they do *** anyway)

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Originally Posted by Kirosuu

but i wanna see miqlala Q_Q (but how they do *** anyway)

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I'm sure if you search hard enough on the Internet, you will find the answer. And regret it. <_<;;

Its interesting it says to hold to your roots or whatever.. How far back are they considering their roots? Aside from some things LOOKing like old FF games... this game doesn't FEEL like an FF to me AT ALL. FF was never a casual game.

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Originally Posted by Flickalado

And let's be real... if they listened to every request on these forums we'd have miq'lalas running around with magical scissors. They take certain requests and go with it, and usually those requests are well formulated and make sense.

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i would use my fantasia potion to play a miq'lala with magic scissors :)

http://i.imgur.com/BLJZinX.jpg

What is missing here is "making decisions in a vacuum"

They wouldn't have had to do a hard reboot of FFXIV if the development team went outside their own front door for input, as most of its core failures could be pointed out by an average player within hours, and a comprehensive list produced by a veteran gamer/mmo player. Contriving a 'quest' system that deliberately attempts to overwhelm client and server structures by piling players into close physical proximity not the least of the list (Old levequests and Aetheryte system).

That failure wound up getting most of their upper management fired in the first place.

Summoners still only summon egis, Dragoons still don't have wyverns pet, Bards limit break is still a healer LB.

I can live with one of those but not the other 2. Good thing I love BLM in this game. Triple Flaring is the best.

"Fun comes first" Gets listed second.

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Originally Posted by Zourin

http://i.imgur.com/BLJZinX.jpg

What is missing here is "making decisions in a vacuum"

They wouldn't have had to do a hard reboot of FFXIV if the development team went outside their own front door for input, as most of its core failures could be pointed out by an average player within hours, and a comprehensive list produced by a veteran gamer/mmo player. Contriving a 'quest' system that deliberately attempts to overwhelm client and server structures by piling players into close physical proximity not the least of the list (Old levequests and Aetheryte system).

That failure wound up getting most of their upper management fired in the first place.

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This is all part of point 2

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

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What if I already live in Canada?

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Originally Posted by Beetle

What if I already live in Canada?

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Then you go to Canada-2

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Summoners still only summon egis, Dragoons still don't have wyverns pet, Bards limit break is still a healer LB.

I can live with one of those but not the other 2. Good thing I love BLM in this game. Triple Flaring is the best.

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A lot of player input is so subjective that I am completely unsure which of those 3 things you can live with. I'd guess it's the egis since it's the only one that's purely cosmetic. In any case, I think they've done a great job of listening to players (and filtering appropriately).

Ironically, I am getting ready to quit / take a break from this game soon because I feel SE is violating most of the points made in that presentation.

They have even recently explained that they have all of their development planned out a good year or more into the future. They are so tunnel vision focused on content that while they theoretically listen to us, they aren't planning to do much to address our complaints.

The Summoner issue is one of the oldest for me. One of the points in those images says to stay true to source material. So why does SMN in this game have a gimpy little pet? Why do we only get 3 of them? Why is our gameplay primarily built around stacking DOTs on enemies? Why am I playing a generic MMO necromancer? Where is my Final Fantasy Summoner?

And that's only one of many issues I have had in mind since launch. We have complained and explained our thoughts extensively for a long time now about many issues. We are usually ignored, or dismissed on issues that are important to us. Even little things like Butts. Many issues that really should have been addressed in 2.1 or 2.2 at the latest are still in limbo from our perspective.

And above all, I don't find this end-game content especially fun. I am sick of failing on a boss fight, just because it's so tightly tuned that a single player making a mistake or getting a little lag, causes a failure for the team.

Finally, the biggest thing that bugs me is how SE seems to have this attitude of "we are awesome, and we totally know what we are doing" when players are getting frustrated by design choices SE has made.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

A lot of player input is so subjective that I am completely unsure which of those 3 things you can live with. I'd guess it's the egis since it's the only one that's purely cosmetic. In any case, I think they've done a great job of listening to players (and filtering appropriately).

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I can live with bards having healer limit breaks. Being able to avert wipes with the level 3 Limit Break is a big perk, imho.

Summoner just doesn't feel like Summoners to me because of the Egi and their Limit Break isn't them at least them doing the primal summon signature moves since they are all at least as big as Black Mages Meteor. So visually and mechanic wise Summoner is a disappointment for me.

Dragoons is self explanatory and I'd rather go Lancer than bother with Dragoon in this game.

Not surprised to see nothing customer support related.

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Originally Posted by Synra

Even little things like Butts.

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Seriously?

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Originally Posted by Beetle

What if I already live in Canada?

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Then you move to Southern Canada. Or as normal folks call it: "Vermont".

I think that all developers share good intentions. If you're a game developer, you are one because it was born out of passion - there are plenty of other jobs that require the same skills used to make games that require far less effort for a better paycheck. The problem with any sort of entertainment is that it can be consumed much faster than it can be developed. For MMOs, this places an emphasis on replay value and longevity since their success is entirely dependent on hooking a dedicated playerbase. In the case of FFXIV: ARR, it builds upon ideas from its predecessors that have proven to be successful. The problem with this, however, is proving that their vision of an MMO is truly unique to find that dedicated group of players. The obvious question then becomes, "Did they do it?", and truthfully, the answer is subject to each of us. In the eyes of the developers, they have indeed grabbed a solid playerbase, and this is what they will claim success for. After all the hard work they've done, I'd say they certainly deserve at least that.

Remember they are still only human, People make mistakes.
They just have to remember to keep listening and not falling back into bad habits, which is exactly what they have done now with the atma fate system.

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Originally Posted by MrSigy

Remember they are still only human, People make mistakes.
They just have to remember to keep listening and not falling back into bad habits, which is exactly what they have done now with the atma fate system.

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The atma fate system, as far as I can tell, is an attempt to get people out in the world itself and give fighters something to do while they wait for their dungeons to que. It's also a test of diligence and perseverance, something which todays gamers are a bit weaker in. This is for the people that have been missing that kind of long term content and feeling of an active world. In all honesty, I like the idea of it. I just have yet to experience it.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

They seem very basic and obvious, yet it's not common for companies or developers to lay them out plainly. Remember the housing debacle? They listened. They didn't agree completely, but they made a compromise.

I think Yoshida et al. deserve a bit more trust.

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don't all companies "say" these things... and its easier to listen to things like "we want more hairoptions" or "we want cheaper housing" then to listen to things like
- open world content
- many ppl hate fates, yet most new content and all events are based on them, Atma on top of it even feels like they are making fun of us (ah you hate fates: there you go, get THIS)
- Atma: Fun comes first - well done!
- we want challenges - 3 new dungeons far easier then 90% of all dungeons from 15-50 and taking 30% of the time low lvl dungeons take - even without Speedrunning them.
- people love the story in ff games. Yet the main story felt more underwhelming then unimportant sidestories in most other games ive played. Not to mention the "hide and seek" click 3 children quest and "parfume" the chocobo....

the best thing about ARR is the new engine and the looks. What is behind is quite shallow though... sadly

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpr...oto6_thumb.jpg

They seem very basic and obvious, yet it's not common for companies or developers to lay them out plainly. Remember the housing debacle? They listened. They didn't agree completely, but they made a compromise.

I think Yoshida et al. deserve a bit more trust.

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.......................... not sure

He can have Respect But not Trust
Hes failed in important areas, made bad discussions due to listening to the 1% who are complete morons since they never stepped back & looked at the overall balance. broken promises e.t.c. i mean honestly they made oversized AOE attcks a mmo system that requires a block system & yet there is no blocking system. That is not balance then to add insult they delay & lagg on top of that...... well i'll leave it at this there was 3 pages i deleted explains just some of the faults & why.

End result is they wont fix whats wrong they will just make it easier. Then they will make more bad choices.

Good luck Square Enix on your next Final Fantasy mmo in however many years, hopefully you learnt from this one & dont ignore whats wrong with it that you have & i can safely assume will leave wrong in this one.
Also hope you build on everything thats right & good in this one even tho alot of it is in the areas that arent as important to mmos as balance & forward progression.

P.S. just because the 1% say grinding is fun doesnt mean it is.
P.P.S. Fairly reward players for there efforts. something you havnt done e.g. atma, chest drops in all raids & dungeons.

FF is the most casual RPG experience out there besides maybe paper mario

Edit: this was in response to a post saying ff had never been casual, which is probably true for 1, 2, 3, 5, and 11.

Saying and doing are two different things.

Last slide, #2. Now think ATMA grind.

NOPE.

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

Saying and doing are two different things.

Last slide, #2. Now think ATMA grind.

NOPE.

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It's directed at you. So since you aren't having fun you are doing the ATMA grind wrong.

Jokes aside, not everyone has their animus yet or multiple animus. Which is what was the complain about the relic weapon. Can't please both crowds.