Why do people hate on tanky healers?

i still heal 840-890 for Cure 1 and 1350-1460 for cure 2. With divine seal on, i heal for about 300-500hp more. But yeah all in all it's pretty awesome being a tank whm as i have noticed that having 5714 hp unbuffed in party ( 5526 hp solo unbuffed ) + stoneskin allows me to eat most things without taking too much damage as it is absorbed by 18% of my max hp. So this allows me to negate stuff like high voltage in turn 2 as i get 0 damage from it and no paralysis lol. But a good thing i do like about this build as well as others , is when the tank ( in a 4 man party ) is absent / d/c. i just go okay lol and tell the other 2 dps to continue with me while i sub in as the tank till we find a replacement. Btw i can manage coil turn 1 and 2 and half of 4 and 5 cuz i don't know the fights as i never had a good static group to learn with.:rolleyes:

Are you stacking tank accessories to get more vit or are you using crafted accessories with vit melded on? My response will be different depending on which you’re doing.

Well my cure 1 does almost as much as your cure 2 (in a party), so that could be why.

And how are you keeping hate when your mitigating all damage? Just overhealing yourself? Well this is inefficient. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I tanked WP as WHM once and it was a lot of fun, but not an ideal situation.

Also, I have to call BS on you tanking CAD as WHM. Video or it didn't happen. He hits very fast, and hard, so a lot of spells would be interrupted, and I'd say 3 hits and you're dead. Good luck getting a stoneskin off while tanking him. Unless you're saying you're not tanking, you're just going with that high HP for survivability. To which I say, if you know what your'e doing, stop. I have no trouble healing turns 1 and 2 with 4300 hp unbuffed. You are gimping your ability as a healer by making your cures suffer, at the expense of more hp.

I never meant tanking turn 1 lol etc.
I meant as i can easily heal my part / do my job with ease in turn 1 and 2 = " i manage "
And just saying that i have 1 crafted and 4 myth tank accessories. Also probably in 2.2 i'll be able to actually tank caduceus lol with the echo buff pf course XD

Because HP != Defense.

A quick look at my Warrior and Sch, 758 DEF VS 299. You are getting hit so much more even with much HP. Try tanking a mountain buster and see how it goes.

As long as you're not impeding on the success and the ability to have fun of 7 other people, you can do whatever. Anytime you want to do something unconventional, you have to ask yourself two things.

1. Are you still winning? If not, expect a lot of hate.
2. Are you holding your own and not forcing the other healer to pick up on your slack? If not, expect a lot of hate.

With that said, if those are your heal values, you're probably violating 2.

Sorry OP...but you're gimping yourself and, by extension, your party. Doing crazy things like this with a static is fine...but with randoms? Sure you can heal T1 and T2 as an i70-75 WHM (which is probably what you're equivalent to), but T4 and T5? No way. Joining a T4 group with your gear will probably only get you kicked.

And there's no way a WHM will be able to tank Caddie even with the buff. You have no physical defense, no defensive CDs and will get one-shotted once the stacks get too high.

Trying to run with this build is also probably why you can't find a static...

A quick look at lodestone reveals that you don't even have Swiftcast. So work on that.

I think everyone has adequately covered why people have issues with your gear setup, so I’ll just say that if you want higher hp than normal at least use overmelded astral accessories instead of tank accessories. You lose 5 vit compared to tanking accessories, but you gain 9 mind and useful secondary stats. Based on what you said your cure delves average, you’ll need the stats if you want to complete higher level content without being a liability to your group.

I shall get swiftcast someday lol perhaps 2.2 or something. But yea i can tank a mountain buster too lol
Also EX mountain busters, i think they hit for less than the ones on HM mode. Dunno if thats true or not ?
And i usually carry the team as the other healer dies to an aoe or something. But yea i'd never do this for real on the later coil turns.... Unless they make it possible to get more Hp! :^)
XD i'd love to hit 10k as a whm.
But back on topic, i don't gimp parties usually as everyone is cool till someone dies to an aoe with full / 90% hp and says heal better whm. I'm like lol i can't heal u if u die that fast lol, technically no1 could. But if die with 70% and lower then thats my fault .
But its nice to hear ppl on runs when they say thanks for making the run interesting, ur the craziest whm i have ever seen etc.
but i an eager to see a whm tank turn 1 as you know, stats increase, bosses get nerfed, and so on! :^D

You're already gimping your parties without Swift cast. Other healer dies? Swiftcast raise. Problem solved. And can you prove you took mountain busters without any form of mitigation on titan? I can recall MBs hitting for well over 6k in both hard and ex mode.

As for tanking T1... if I want a tank I'll invite a PLD or WAR. I invite you as a healer so I expect you to heal, not tank.

We tell you why, you ignored it and just lololol I'm not doing anything wrong. EX MB doesn't hit less, people just have better gears. Even if it's possible to get more HP, all it does is that you'll have the tanks die slower since your healing output is lower than the mobs damage output. As a warrior tank, the only time I hit 10k is with Thrill of Battle. I doubt you will get that high for another 2-3 expansions. You sound just like one of the guy that was in my FC: I survived to the end, that's good enough right? No, you didn't do your job and got carried by others.

Reminds me of a BLM in my FC who has decided to solve their really bad lag problem by stacking as much VIT as possible so they can eat more AoEs, lol

While I certainly don't *hate* on people who do this, I don't really see the point aside from the (admittedly neat) novelty of saying you're a cloth-wearer with almost 6k health. You're sacrificing a *ton* of healing stats to get that much HP and your Cure 1 is hitting for about 100 points less than Physick does on my SCH. Considering WHM is the throughput healer it doesn't make a ton of sense to do this. It definitely gives you more survivability, there's no arguing that... but quite frankly I can't really think of any situations where an extra 1000-1500 hp on one of our healers would have stopped a wipe. Sure, you can eat a mountain buster, but why are you even getting hit by one in the first place?

All that being said, it's probably not stopping you from healing anything. The 70-something MND you're losing out on won't make it impossible to heal Twintania. It'll just make it more difficult for very little benefit. You still can't survive a twister blowing up, you still can't survive a dreadknight reaching you, you still can't survive a conflag blowing up in your face... and all of the other damage on the fight you will survive (getting hit by a divebomb, fireball, liquid hell, aetheric profusion, hell, even getting plummeted by Twin) can also be survived with the more typical 4.1k health. I think that's why people are getting annoyed at you when you join their party with that much health.

Lol idk y u guys r so set on proving me 100% wrong lol, i also mean with stone skin*
Cuz i need to utilize every skill i have atm to survive effectively just like real tanks :^D

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

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All you need is protect, stone skin and dodging. With full i90 as a whm you'll have about 4.4k+ HP naturally (after food and party buff). That is more then enough to survive any non dodgable attack. And why would a whm need to eat an MB anyways? At that point I'd say reevaluate your tanks or your play style (too much aoe curing is the leading cause to losing hate in any titan)

WHM is not a tank. You can't build reliable enmity throughout the course of a long fight. You can't eat massive hits reliably even with SS. Tanks with 7k HP stone skin can take massive damage from cad's hood swing unmitigated (no cooldowns, tank lb or debuffs on cad). You only have 5.7k with much much lower defense. Stone skin alone will not save you

Yeah lol! I'd never survive that but it doesn't mean i won't give up lol
A whm can dream and try their best but as long as we beat the boss without the other healer telling me to carry my own weight etc. i think it'd be called successful and fun to watch right? Also have any of you tried this build before? You can't really hate it till u actually try it and see how it works or have seen it work.

Devil's Advocate Mode: Abandon White Mage! Whoop out dat Conjurer with your Mog Wand and shield! Foresight, Keen Flurry, Featherfoot, Flash, and Provoke! Once you reach a certain threshhold of healing, you may end up overhealing with your heal partner.

Arnold voice: Do it! Do it nyao!

Side Note: If Mountain Buster is the table flip, then it seems to do less damage in Titan EX than in Titan HM until the stacks start to add up. I parried a HM MB with a 16% reduction during a wipe, but still got slapped for 4400 HP (I only had 3900 at the time). So you would have to deflect 5000ish damage regularly and our low defense really plays against us in this scenario.

Have you ever seen a healer survive a failed hellfire and continue to heal the two tanks and maybe a high hp dps till they get LB3 and revive everyone and make an awesome recovery? ( in ifrit hm of course lol )
Never tried ex yet :p
You should see how many ppl go like "gg wipe please" then to just say moments later " gooooooo, almost lb3!!! You can do it lol etc. "
its pretty funny to see that in the chatbox.
Also lets say in hakkuke manor HM,
Its possible to recover from the failed kill of the lady " something " ( the last add) in the final boss. As blood rain would usually wipe the party but i managed to survive and rez everyone + top ppl off. So in that case i was compensating for the low dps in that party.
Sure i have to work a bit harder but hey we all won right?

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Have you ever seen a healer survive a failed hellfire and continue to heal the two tanks and maybe a high hp dps till they get LB3 and revive everyone and make an awesome recovery?

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Ifrit HM is a joke. You're using an example of a fight meant for ilevel 50s when you run in at ilevel 70+ as ratification for this tanky healer thing. If you had tried Ifrit EX, you'd know that a failed hellfire, aka failing to kill all nails, would do 22k damage. Unless you overgear for it again, maybe like ilevel 120+, you won't survive this. Maybe if you didn't put your points in vitality to begin with, those points could've been added heal onto tanks so you could help dpsing down the nails in the first place, which with more points into Mind means more damage in Cleric Stance. Same thing with your example in Haukke HM.

The main thing, really, is that if you need to be a "tanky" healer your party is pretty boned - You're eating AOE you don't need to, your tanks can't keep a hold on things, your DPS is severely slow. Things that are common failure modes that lead to dead healers are probably still going to end up killing you.

You might cure enough for the hardest stuff. By going for tanking myth accs you're not only short of cure power but mana as well. Under heavy load - like t4 double-dread - you're going to break very quickly. Places where you might get buy with cure1 now need you to cure2 - so longer fights are going to have much greater mana issues. The second healer is probably pulling a lot more weight than usual with you. Not necessarily in max DPS healed but in heals you don't have to throw saving your mana.

If you need HP you should meld vit on caster i70 accs. It'll get you to 5k but also give you some healer stats.

Lol i think some of you guys didn't read what i posted lol.
Like ppl keep mentioning turn 4, 5 etc. and i already know that for ifrit ex regardless that i haven't tried it yet ( hence the name Extreme )
But if the whole party dies and i don't and i help recover team from a primal ultimate then isn't that a good thing ?
Also lol i love how ppl ask healers to dps, its like we can tank, dps and heal to a decent extent. A tank can't heal that well as a healer can tank, a dps can't heal as well as a healer can dps.
So asking us to do all this dps means that the party is lacking dps lol.
So yeah i see full ilvl 90's with allagan weps dying to plumes and hellfire sooo i think its still plausible to say ifrit hm isn't that much of a joke :p

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

So yeah i see full ilvl 90's with allagan weps dying to plumes and hellfire

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That just means either they or the other people they went with are bad and didn't kill fast enough. Hellfire without any nails should do minimum damage. Now if they die because they weren't at full HP, don't you think that is your fault for not healing better?
Anyone that fought their way to get their allagan weapons should not die to plumes. Ever. Unless they got it on another job and not familiar with that job's abilities.
Healers can actually do respectable DPS in Cleric Stance, nothing close to real DPS classes, but not like zero DPS.

You should focus more on being a good healer so in cleric stance you can help DPS things down. Every point of mind is a point of healing magic potency in cleric stance that's all attack magic. I'm healing for more than you on my sch, that shouldn't happen. In end game you need heals, when there is over healing you can then dps. Unfortunately most content in this game is a check on healers and DPS, with HP checks for tanks that you directly as a healer can help. Your job as a healer is to know when to heal, when to dodge, and when to cleric stance in this mmo. I don't wasn't too be harsh but you'd be holding parties back when it really comes down to it. It's not how you want to play its what the content needs.

I think its not that people are trying to prove you wrong, its that you are wrong, and you need to reevaluate how you want to play this game, maybe a new class/job is better, maybe you want to try out pvp, I'm sure a tanky healer might be something in pvp. But in the endgame content past titan HM this set up won't work. If you were in my party, I wouldn't be mean to you, but I would mention these things and ask for a justification, especially if the content is not going well and I as the other healer and doing most of the work. Think about the other people, put themselves in their shoes, why should they put you in their party when you aren't up to the full potential? Just think about it. Continue to play how you want, but expect hate.

this thread is reminiscent of dual wielding WHM/NIN in a FFXI forum. there was much popcorn to be eaten there too.

Turn 1 and 2 and cough* 3 is content past titan HM and it works just fine :p
Sometimes even better than the occasional healer lol

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Originally Posted by Daenerys_Sedai

this thread is reminiscent of dual wielding WHM/NIN in a FFXI forum. there was much popcorn to be eaten there too.

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Actually it's reminding me of the "Arcanists can totes keep up with Summoners!" thread going on in the DPS forum right now. Not sure if serious or coordinated trolling effort.

Once again try my setup
30 vit into specs and full myth / any ring higher than crafted hq ring with vit accessories.
You'll see how different it feels and how different methods open up. Like eating an orb solo in ultima HM and saving the party an orb to eat. Also i like how most people disregard the other content out of ex primals / coil turn 4&5 as invalid & super duper easy. :p of course its easy with a good group but in DF u never know lol.

People will always criticize or attack others for doing unconventional things. At the end of the day, you should play the way that brings you enjoyment; that's the whole point of a game. The people that want to group (or continue grouping) with you will do so, and the others will not.

Yea i agree lol, but this just shows how people are too scared to try something different. If everyone does it then that's the only way to do it lol. No free thinking allowed period. XD
No wonder why people are so bored with this game atm cuz all they do is the same stuff the same way everyone else does it so thats why everyone feels so cookie cut :)
At least i know i'm enjoying this as some other people who met me along DF and PF runs.

Me being someone who has a friend who likes to try all sort of different things and not follow typical builds, I tip my hat to you, as long as you are having fun with the game, no one has the right to tell you how to play your job, people can always find a different healer if they don't feel comfortable with your gamestyle.

Orbs in ultima are mitigated by more people it just at once meaning less healing over time. Looking at every example you give, you only "saved the day" because you ran with horrible players. There is no excuse for a high voltage going off or hellfire being full power. The people in charge of making sure this doesn't happen were doing it wrong.

By doing what you're doing, people won't learn from their mistakes. You're essentially giving everybody a trophy for participating, it's doing more harm then good. If DPS don't kill the nails, it doesn't matter if people have Allagan or not. The group as a whole failed to disrupt a mechanic they should have learned at level 22. It's a group effort. You would not feel the need to pump out so much vit if your groups worked together and did their roles better. If you wipe, then respawn, talk with the group, find out what went wrong, why it went wrong and try again. If any advice falls on deaf ears, then god help them.

/end rant. Sorry for coming off as harsh but this is the cold truth. It's never pleasant hearing stuff like this, but there's so many threads about stuff like this (E.g. the ACN > SMN thread that was mentioned a few posts back) that it's agitating. Why I continue to prowl these forums is a mystery even to me.

Unfortunately this game was built with Cookie Cutter in mind considering how much it takes from WoW. Having a Spell Speed WHM or Determination WHM could be related to having a Shadow Priest and/or (whatever the healer priest is called, I forget)

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

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Basically this. The simple fact of the matter is that you’re building your char operating under the assumption that your team is going to fail at their roles and that you need to compensate for it, and that’s really not a good mentality. There are only a handful of encounters in the game that have any sort of “hp check”, and none of those require a caster to have over 5k hp. You’re only coming across situations that “require” that much hp because your group as a whole is not executing properly. If you were to join a competent group that was executing properly, all the vit you stacked would be useless and you’d be a 5k hp whm whose healing output is lower than a normal darklight-geared whm (my cures average about 150-175 higher than yours).

That said, as other people have noted, you’re free to play however you want. Lots of people do fights with non-standard setups and builds, so if you find like-minded people then more power to you. Just understand that people aren’t required to agree with your play style and are free to boot you in favor of someone else.

You're making a build to try and make yourself out to be a hero. It seems every encounter you're in is destined to be all heart-attack healing and full raid rez rebuffs.

You've not discovered some hidden WHM build. You haven't found a secret technique that only you have mastered. Your approach to WHM isn't original, creative or beneficial in any way, shape, form or fashion. You are not constructively unique.

You might as well be of the mindset that knowing how to Cleric Stance dance makes you a good healer too.

I am not sorry for this post, as others seemed to be of theirs in here.

All that aside, I think you're a troll.

>.> but its funnnn, that aside.
I know what u guys mean, and once again i\\\\\\'ll say that i wouldn\\\\\\'t do this in a serious "omg coil pro team " standards group.
But in DF people have so little patience with wiping like they use to be, so i rather try my best to prevent that by obviously healing to my fullest with said stats and time divine seal / shroud to compensate for lack of mp, healing potency, etc.
Also its fun playing the hero as most healers now a days seem like mindless cut and paste healing bots.
Also what made me start this build was cuz i back then i heard a whm tank titan hm. I thought that was amazing and wanted to try that myself someday. Being a somewhat fresh 50 before felt like i wanted to be the very best at healing with the highest heals.
But soon after i started to get bored as i see a lot of whms and schs running around with the same gear.

Also no one needs to be sorry about their posts, it's all just advice/ personal experiences u guys r tying to tell me. So yeah don't worry i'm not gonna go crazy and mess up everyone's day.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

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Again I'll say it again. You're doing more harm then good. Honestly, who cares if people have little patience. If you assume everybody does, you're actually doing the harm to yourself. If I were new to an instance, I'd rather wipe over and over to learn the fight with muscle memory .Titan Ex as an example: I only watched a video once. I hopped into DF and learned the better times to Stoneskin, when to use Medica 2 or Medica 1. I also learned the BEAUTY that is Divine Seal + Swiftcast + Medica 2 while running to restack with people. This wouldn't have happened if I got carried. I've also seen other people with Primal weapons that played like they got carried or bought their win.
"Carrying" people just because you assume people don't have patience is asinine simply because you're helping to create the people like I've played with. It's these people I have little patience for not wiping over and over. As long as progress is made, even a tiny tiny bit, I won't care if all my armor's destroyed by the time we get a win. I understand 100% that you have good intentions and I can respect that, but please understand where I'm coming with this

I'm really trying my best to not sound harsh, but I can't stand seeing people who have clears yet played like they were obviously carried.

Like you said your build is going to work for Lower stuffs like Ifrit and Titan HM and stuffs but considering my SCH heals for almost as much as your cure2 with physick, you are for sure not pulling your weight in Coil 1 and 2 and the other healer just hasn't realized it yet because of how busy healers are in coil.

The above being said, I am all for trying new things. Heck, before they nerfed Mazurka Enmity Gain in FFXI I was a Main Tank on my BRD for my Linkshell. (BRDs got he most damage reduction gear at that time, it worked amazingly well.). THAT being said, if you already know that you are going to have to abandon your VIT build for the higher end stuff why even bother? Having to switch those 30 points all the time, you will eventually run out of FC Seals.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Turn 1 and 2 and cough* 3 is content past titan HM and it works just fine :p
Sometimes even better than the occasional healer lol

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The correct setup for Turn 3, as anyone will tell you, is 8x PLD.

*cough*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5TDzbqfEAo

I did a T5 clear whilst running that setup as well, whilst the hit to my cure throughput was noticeable, it certainly didn't make or break the run.

:D omg r u that legend tank whm? If so awesome!
How did turn 5 go with that set up?
Did it go all poop like everyone claimed it will be?
Also did ur partner healer tell u that he's doing more work than you?