Tanking Turn 4

Any tips for a tank stepping into Turn 4 tonight? ilvl 79.

If you are dread tank, save CDs for it. As a Paladin, Stoneskin yourself before each dread pickup. You can literally count 3 swings before each hard hit (rotoswipe), though sometimes the animation/timing gets messed up if you move them much (it'll auto attack on rotoswipe for double ouch). Never face a dread towards party. Learn the timing of dread drops for your group and try to have a comboed Halone ready for their drop.

When tanking spinner rooks, make sure to run through them when they cast pox.

Use shield oath? /trololol

Really the fight is largely about positioning, and some also depends on your group composition.

Will you be main tank or off tank?

P1 - aggro spiders and kill them off

P2 - aggro soilders/knights (OT stand at 2 o'clock; MT stand at 10 o'clock)

P3 - MT stand at 10 o'clock; rotate defensive cooldowns. OT switch to Sword Oath and dps dreadnaught, change to Shield Oath at around 40% HP

P4 - MT take one Spinner Rook ONLY; OT take one Spinner Rook and ALL the spiders. Dodge Pox from the Spinner Rook, just like Garuda's splipstream.

P5 - MT stand at 2 o'clock; OT stand at centre, aggro Soliders/knight, move to clear location so aoe won't hit the group/ or the group move away from you (common sense dictates how you will move)

P6 - MT stand at 2 o'clock; OT stand at centre, aggro Solider/knight+2spiders ONLY (Hallowed Ground, then rotate defensive cooldowns, run along the edge and kite them until only ONE dreadnaught remaining)

In summary - KEEP FLASHING AND RIOT BLADE!

Im having some trouble OTing turn 4 too. Just by standing on the centre and using Flash is enough to grab aggro (P5 and P6)? Or do I have to do some running around? Sometimes I can hold aggro on them but sometimes they go straight to a healer and that ends up killing him. My cover usually is on CD from P4 (I find it easy to just let the healer grab aggro on all mobs, cover then flash) so I can't rely much on that. Is this turn heavily tank dependant? Im the kind of ppl that will always assume its my fault if something goes wrong =\

Thanks in advance :)

PS: Sorry, English isnt my main language =P

in P3 (single dread), when OT goes to take the rook/bugs, I often go to 7 o'clock in order to get my rook asap, then run to my healers ands use flash twice. First is to help them survive first hits (I should take about 2 bugs out of the 4/5 that come) and 2nd takes the hate off. then I run to 6 o'clock and run in point blank circles around the rook (avoid both gravity thrust and pox. You REALLY want to avoid these) to let the bugs face the same direction all the time.

After they are all dead or nearly done, I run to middle to get the soldier and take the knight from the healers, go at 6 o'clock again to wait for P6 while everyone else burns the dread (it always dies before P6 or right when 2nd dread pops, which helps a lot). When the dread is around 20%, I run in center, pop a flash to get the soldier, run to the healer to flash and save his life from 3 bugs + knight (which normally can't get there in time and only hits me) and a bard takes the rook.

Kill order at that time is 1st dread (MT should pop Hallowed Ground right before or after it pops to survive if both are here. Else, wait 10 secs for feeding), then the rook while I feed the bugs. MT pops hallowed Ground while we burn the 2 sets of knight/soldier, and then we LB/burn the last dear and get our loot ^^

Note : it's important to feed the 1st dread in P3 right when it pops. For that, healers should stand near 11 o'clock and use a heal. They won't get the dread but thay'll attract all the bugs. It gives a big buff in damage to the dread and heals it by 10% per bug fed, so avoid doing damage before the feeding ^^ (if the OT is a war, feel free to apply storm's path before it has 4 stacks though, as it will hurt pretty bad really soon)

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Originally Posted by Xandim

Im having some trouble OTing turn 4 too. Just by standing on the centre and using Flash is enough to grab aggro (P5 and P6)? Or do I have to do some running around? Sometimes I can hold aggro on them but sometimes they go straight to a healer and that ends up killing him. My cover usually is on CD from P4 (I find it easy to just let the healer grab aggro on all mobs, cover then flash) so I can't rely much on that. Is this turn heavily tank dependant? Im the kind of ppl that will always assume its my fault if something goes wrong =\

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As an OT you need to be on top of add spawns. Flash is best for initial pickup obviously, but you should be maxing aggroe on your Knight/Soldier through Halone combos and storing up MP for the next Knight/Soldier. Of course this partly depends on your group's method of doing T4. My group does single Dread strat, so we burn p5 dread before p6 drops, and OT Flash/kites x4 Soldier/Knights (usually Hallowed Grounds to just max threat) while DD burns Rook and moves into p5 Knight/Soldier > p6 Knight/Soldier.

In this scenario, picking up p5 Knight/Soldier is easily attainable with x2 Flash and starting into your Halone combos, as damage should be manageable with one healer per each tank. Make sure you are tanking Solider/Knights away from heals as their AoE will continue to hit heals hard if tanked near. Another thing you can do is ready a Halone for the middle spawn p5 add, and use as it drops. If big heals are going out at the time, provoke the far add drop as it runs over to heals, and Flash on it, or have a Savage Blade ready.

Honestly it sounds like you are having somewhat of a threat gen problem. You shouldn't *need* to use cover at all for p4. If you are at the drop location, your initial flash should pick up a majority of the adds, and if healers are gathered properly there, the next one will pick up the rest as they converge. MT should take the kill target Rook and OT just flashes while dodging pox on 2nd Rook (obviously can single target after threat is established).

On initial adds pickup possibly save a Circle of Scorn and maybe even Spirit's Within. While any extra DPS is nice to have, keeping your healers alive is far more important as a tank, so save them as needed.

poor positioning and pickup planning in the transition into the very last wave before focusing the last dreadnaught is the easiest way that you can wipe

one of the knights/soldiers from the last phases always spawns in the middle of the room. find out where the other one spawns, flash on top of it, tomahawk/shield lob the one in the middle. we personally use a strategy where the healers stack on the back of the dreadnaught so that bugs run straight for it and dps tanks the rook and i hold 2 waves of knights/soldiers until the rook dies and then ae lb all of the knights and soldiers.

There were many times where an add was loose because their spawn did not line up perfectly with my rotation and it was the only reason why we wiped. We used to wipe at least once or twice every week on turn 4 since we downed it because of it.

edit: oh yeah, fight or flight is not just a hotbar decoration or simply a damage boost. if you are having trouble keeping hate in particular parts of the encounter, use it accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Xandim

Sometimes I can hold aggro on them but sometimes they go straight to a healer and that ends up killing him.

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While it might be the tank's fault that he couldn't hold aggro due to the amount of adds running around and the intensity of the fight. But most of the time I done it, when a healer took my aggro, is because they over-heal the MT (or OT). Common mistake for healers are that they believe spamming Cure/Physick non-stop would maintain the tank alive. While spamming it would definitely keep the tank's HP topped up, however, that is just a waste of resources and over-heal do gain aggro equally as a normal heal.

It is very much a team effort (as well as you) on how you'll perform. Make sure you talk to each other if you notice these kind of problems.

A little trick is to pop hallowed ground immediately after the adds have gathered around you in p6. This gives you a clear 10 seconds to gain threat. This 10 seconds will definitely decide the fate of your fight. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Asdamine

While it might be the tank's fault that he couldn't hold aggro due to the amount of adds running around and the intensity of the fight. But most of the time I done it, when a healer took my aggro, is because they over-heal the MT (or OT). Common mistake for healers are that they believe spamming Cure/Physick non-stop would maintain the tank alive. While spamming it would definitely keep the tank's HP topped up, however, that is just a waste of resources and over-heal do gain aggro equally as a normal heal.

It is very much a team effort (as well as you) on how you'll perform. Make sure you talk to each other if you notice these kind of problems.

A little trick is to pop hallowed ground immediately after the adds have gathered around you in p6. This gives you a clear 10 seconds to gain threat. This 10 seconds will definitely decide the fate of your fight. Good luck.

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Depends, sometimes it's due to bad positioning of healer when the next wave begins.

Thanks for the input, I'll tell my healers to stay closer to me when P5/6 starts (im usually in the middle and the healers are more to the edges). I'll save Fight or Flight for that part too (at least I wont use it on P4) to generate more threat. I DID pass it once but it wasn't with my static, it was with a PUG (even tho 3 or 4 members were from my static group/FC members). Oh and i'll try to craft/buy Mega-ethers, since sometimes I lose track of my own mp for Flash (and even tho we do have a BRD, its always good to have a instant mp recover).

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Originally Posted by Traek

You shouldn't *need* to use cover at all for p4.

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It's not that I NEED to use Cover on that part, I just find it easier to Cover the aggroed healer. I almost never use Cover, might as well use it at least once in my game life =P

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Originally Posted by NavocSkjold

Any tips for a tank stepping into Turn 4 tonight? ilvl 79.

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Don't wait to see the mobs when you go to grab them. Go by the spawn agro list (defaults to the bottom left on your screen).

That list shows the mobs before you can see them, and will save you an extra GCD.

This is all excellent advice!!! Thank you all. Hopefully we down it later this week and I can post a victory kill!

Love the community.

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Originally Posted by Xandim

Thanks for the input, I'll tell my healers to stay closer to me when P5/6 starts (im usually in the middle and the healers are more to the edges). I'll save Fight or Flight for that part too (at least I wont use it on P4) to generate more threat.

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Ya, this sounds like your main issue. Healers should generally be on the back of the Dread (again sometimes depends on strat), or at least in the same area to have mobs easily gathered for tank. Running around tab targeting and trying to keep things in range simply won't work out well for just about anyone. Lol We keep our DPS and healers pretty organized in their positioning, and it makes for a very smooth fight.

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Originally Posted by Xandim

It's not that I NEED to use Cover on that part, I just find it easier to Cover the aggroed healer. I almost never use Cover, might as well use it at least once in my game life =P

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Sorry if I came off snappy, I didn't mean it that way. I think using cover is actually smart if the situation arises, its just the situation arising usually means someone did something wrong to begin with. This might not even be you, but poor positioning like we are mentioning, leading to terrible tank threat gen and healers getting pummeled till the tank can pull out ahead.

Anyways, good luck on your group's T4, its a pretty fun fight once you get things rolling.

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Originally Posted by Asdamine

P5 - MT stand at 2 o'clock; OT stand at centre, aggro Soliders/knight, move to clear location so aoe won't hit the group/ or the group move away from you (common sense dictates how you will move)

P6 - MT stand at 2 o'clock; OT stand at centre, aggro Solider/knight+2spiders ONLY (Hallowed Ground, then rotate defensive cooldowns, run along the edge and kite them until only ONE dreadnaught remaining)

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IMO those are the two phases that make or break a T4 run.

For P5, picking up aggro is usually straightforward enough, RoH combo on the nearest knight/soldier, shield lob the second. Then rotate your aggro combo on them whilst moving a little SouthEast
If there are still spiders left do NOT keep flashing as the reflective stoneskin from the knight will cause your Flash to damage you.

P6 picking up aggro requires practice and a lot of people have their own method of doing it - it also depends on the P5 kill order.

Personally, usually I'll start by using a raw RoH on the first (MIDDLE) soldier/knight, then shield lob the one that spawns to the south, and immediately pop Tempered Will (to prevent Soldier/Knight pullbacks).
Finally I'll Shield Lob a spider (if we're not feeding them) and THEN I'll pop Hallowed ground and start Flashing whilst dragging everything South East.

I'll Hallowed Ground here for two reasons:
(i) so both Healers can focus on the Dreadnought Tank for ten seconds
(ii) so I can use flash to pick up aggro from everything without eating reflective damage from the Knight's Stoneskin.

(Also... If we're killing the P5 Dreadnought first and I still have an old Soldier/Knight from P5 on me, it's VERY handy to take no damage for a while here whilst trying to build aggro on stuff)

In order to grab the second spider (if we're not feeding them) I'll use Provoke --> Shield Lob after I've Hallowed Grounded and Flashed the soldier/knight/spider at least twice. The healers can put up with being hit by a single spider for a few GCDs, and I REALLY want to get solid aggro on the new Soldier/Knight and drag them out of PBAoE range of the rest of the party ASAP.

The P6 Spinner Rook is nearly always focussed and killed by a DPS, whether via kiting or via use of a limit break.

I'll usually not kite everything about after I've pulled it, because I'm a little overgeared and we usually have at least one melee on the team... but it's certainly possible for a tank to take a lot less damage via careful kiting. Just be wary of the Soldier/Knight "pullback" abilities.

Assuming the P6 pull goes well, it's usually a clear run.

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

If there are still spiders left do NOT keep flashing as the reflective stoneskin from the knight will cause your Flash to damage you.

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Wait.. What ? Never seen that happening, even when I was spamming flash on P2. Flash is a non-damaging ability, thus should not be affected by the miror effect

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Wait.. What ? Never seen that happening, even when I was spamming flash on P2. Flash is a non-damaging ability, thus should not be affected by the miror effect

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PLD version of flash inflicts Blind, and results in the PLD taking approx 700-800 damage from the Knight Stoneskin.

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

PLD version of flash inflicts Blind, and results in the PLD taking approx 700-800 damage from the Knight Stoneskin.

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urgh, good time to be a WAR

For my group

P5 MT picks up the dread OT takes the Knight and Soldier and the group DPS them down. Then moves to the Dread. Healers stand to the west of the Dread.
P6 MT grabs the 2nd Dread with a combo RoH and holds it where it lands. OT grabs the Soldier and Knight. Melee DPS LB the Rook. The spiders will run to the healers and the 2nd Dread will eat them. All other DPS stay on the 1st Dread while MT pops Hallowed. When 1st Dread is down move to Knight Soldier and then 2nd Dread.

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

If there are still spiders left do NOT keep flashing as the reflective stoneskin from the knight will cause your Flash to damage you.

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I have to admit, that is news to me. Thanks!

(You made me feel like a noob now... lol)

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

I'll usually not kite everything about after I've pulled it, because I'm a little overgeared and we usually have at least one melee on the team... but it's certainly possible for a tank to take a lot less damage via careful kiting. Just be wary of the Soldier/Knight "pullback" abilities.

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I usually kite regardless how over gear the group (or myself) is. Mainly because I want to help lessen the burden on the healers.

There is a skill (for paladin) that makes you immune to pull-back/knock-back for a couple of seconds (forgot the name) and I always reserve that for P6 and use it frequently.

I usually stop kiting when I see P5 dread and P6 rook are dead, then it is pretty much GG at that point.

Edit: Ah, "Tempered Will", just re-read your post and saw it. :)

We do P6 a little different, our smn throws Titan on the rook and they burn it down, then we LB the knight, soldier, old dread then new dread. Finishing waaaay before level enrage happens.

I never understand why people kite, if tanks manage their CDs properly and your DPS is somewhat decent, mobs don't live that long

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Originally Posted by Braxton

I never understand why people kite, if tanks manage their CDs properly and your DPS is somewhat decent, mobs don't live that long

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It's really to help the Off Tank take less damage whilst they've got two soldiers and two knights on them (or two spiders plus a solider and a knight). The Soldier/Knight PBAoE "spin" attacks can be dodged if you're kiting them - so assuming that you can avoid the "draw in" abilities it's a lot easier for the healers.

However, if you're killing the Knight/Soldier first in Phase 5, or if you're running with two PLDs who stagger Hallowed Ground makes kiting sort of irrelevent. And kiting their targets makes melee DPS classes cry.

I've seen the Spinner rook kited by a BRD, tanked by a SMN's egi or bounced between two BLM using Manawall. There are a lot of ways to handle it... all depends on your group makeup. The best method if you have sufficient levels of DPS (I wish our group always did!) is just to DoT/Bane and then kill everything in P5 with a AoE LB before P6 starts though... :)

What are you doing on P5? Both the Soldier and Knight are dead by then and the Dread is roughly 20-25%ish in our PT

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Originally Posted by Braxton

What are you doing on P5? Both the Soldier and Knight are dead by then and the Dread is roughly 20-25%ish in our PT

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depends on how you do it. My group blast the dread in P5 while I take the soldier/knight. Said dread dies right when P6 starts, and then we kill rook, feed bugs, kill the 2 sets of soldier/knight while MT pops hallowed ground to help healers maintaining me alive, and then we all burn the last dread with all offensive CDs and LB2 we earned in between. We have only seen the enrage once, and it was for our first down where we focused P5 soldier/knight before dread and thus had 2 dreads alive.

I've been OT'ing this and was really struggling for our first week of tries on T4, but I've got a couple of clears under my belt now, so I figured I'd throw out my tips as a PLD for the Double Dread strat.

Our group setup is generally MT PLD, OT PLD, 2 WHM, 1 BLM, 1 BRD, 1 MNK/DRG and 1 BLM/SMN

P1 - Not much to explain here really, gather the spiders up and spam Flash with the occassional Riot Blade combo to try and keep your mana above 50%

P2 - You can run to your spot once there's only 1 or 2 spiders left as ranged will kill them pretty quickly. Getting into position early throughout this fight will help a lot! Anyway, you have a target list on the left hand side of your screen which shows all the mobs currently alive. The Knight and Soldier actually show up on this before they appear on screen. As soon as you see them on this list hit Flash. It will hit them even though they haven't fully dropped down yet. If in doubt, Flash again. Our DDs always went onto the MTs Knight/Soldier first so I would Spirits Within the Knight, then Savage Blade the Soldier and Rage of Halone the Knight using Circle of Scorn everytime it's off CD. Just alternate your Savage Blade and Rage of Halone between the Knight and Soldier so you've got steady hate on both. So say you hit the Soldier with Savage Blade, use the Rage of Halone part of your combo on the Knight etc. You can also use Bulwark and Bloodbath/Convalesence during this to help your healers out.

P3 - Spiders all get fed, if they make a beeline for a badly positioned healer try and Flash to grab them and drag them to the Dread. You should be in Sword Oath for this and burn Fight or Flight to just do as much damage to the Dread as you can, depending on your groups DPS you can also use this a prime time to Riot Blade your mana back up to full, because you're going to need it. Once the Dread is around 5%, switch back to Shield Oath and position yourself next to your healers. Our healers generally stand in the North-West.

P4 - Be pre-positioned next to the healers and watch very carefully. One of your healers will probably finish casting a heal when the 2 rooks and spiders drop. Pay attention to the Red Aggro lines and immediately Guard whichever healer they target. Proceed to Flash > Circle of Scorn > Flash > Flash... Flash... the pack and run around in a tight circle to avoid getting hit by pox. If it helps, target a Rook and do your Riot Blade combo on it inbetween Flashes. Be sure to use a defensive cooldown here like Bulwark or Foresight as you will likely be getting hammered by pretty much everything here. Once all but 1 or 2 spiders are dead (but make sure those 2 spiders are low), start moving toward the center of the room.

P5 - Use the trick from P2. Flash as soon as the mobs show up on the target list, then Provoke > Shield Lob the Clockwork Soldier that is to the south (where you spawn in) and Flash > Circle of Scorn. What our group does here is have everyone focus the soldier down until it Overloads, so focus your hate generation on the soldier but make sure you do enough so that the Knight doesn't make a break for the healers. Once the Soldier has overloaded, the melee switch to the Knight while the Casters finish the Soldier off and switch to the Dread. You don't really need to move, just stay in the middle, help get the Knight down and try to have a Rage of Halone ready to go once it dies.

P6 - Again use the trick from P2. Flash as soon as the mobs show up. Provoke > Shield Lob the Clockwork Knight (I think) that comes from the south and Flash/Scorn once it's in range. You should also be able to catch 1 Spider doing this, but if not you can have the BRD shadowbind the far spider so that you can run to it and Shield Lob > Flash to pick it up. Then head to the south of the room and just run around in a loose circle, kiting the 3 mobs, spamming flash/scorn and using defensive cooldowns as necessary. What we do is have the MT use Hallowed Ground as soon as he has both Dreads, once his Hallowed Ground runs out, the OT uses their Hallowed Ground and then uses defensive cooldowns. By the time all of your Def CDs have been used, your adds should be nearly dead, or at least one of them will be so the damage is a lot lower. Be sure to stand still once your Melee go onto the Knight. As for the Rook, we just ignore it and let the BLM or Melee tank it and burn the Melee LB on it so it dies pretty quickly. Finish off your adds, switch to Sword Oath and help lay the pain down on the final dread. Grats on your win. If you're wondering about our kill order in this phase: Rook > Dread left from P5 > Knight/Soldier > Spider > P6 Dread. We feed one of the spiders to one of the dreads right at the start.

I hope this helps. :)

I usually use a kite method even if I can survive with a few CD, it helps my healers and its only a minor inconvenience to run around for me. I had made a tank perspective guide for the fight if you would like to take a look it might give you a few ideas. If anything I hope it helps with positioning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GACCew6j2e4

CD management is a must imo for MT(dreads). I run on 2char's weekly (static)pld(mt) and whm(semi-static/pug). I see a lot of mt's confused in p4 as whm and even really putting unneeded stress on me. Here's my CD rotation as MT for it. CD's are used soon as the mobs drops/have hate.
P1 rampart.
p2 Sent+Bul
p3 rampart>foresight+awar+conval
p4 nothing. Should only be tanking 1rook at a time, while ot is doing aoe hate on spiders/1rook.
p5 rampart
p6 hallowed>sent>bul+foresight>awar+conval+rampart>if p5 dread not dead, tell your dps this dread needs to die as your spamming stoneskin on yourself.

OT should only really be kiting during double dreads.
Are strat.
P1 Aoe stuff.
P2 MT's knight+soilder 1st>ot's knight+soilder.
P3 ppl stacks in NW or center, RoH dread move it to center flash spiders to ensure they will get ate. Burn.
P4 MT marks left rook(1), OT marks rook(2). Melee focus's rooks everyone else aoe.
p5 knight+soilder>work on p5 dread till.
p6 Brd+melee grab rook/melee lb's it. Are smn will grab left spider feed it to p6 dread. Others are still working on p5dread, after brd/melee/smn are done with there jobs they finish p5 dread>knight+soilder. At this point we usually just kill the spider since i'll have the p6 dread about 70-75% hp. stack behind it so if enrage>kill dread>pop chest to see another week of no tank bracelets.

There are some really good tips here. I read them over and over, and it helped a lot.

The other one that helped a lot to actually see everything was this: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._visual_guide/ It is a reddit visual guide to the spawns. Helped me down it as OT and MT.

I too am fairly fresh on Turn 4.. Hardest part so far is picking up the adds in phase 6 fast enough. Thanks for these tips!

After this week, my PLD will be on par with my WAR which I have been using thus far. I feel like storms path could help a bit on the damage from dreads, but I've only been able to hit the p3 dread with it so far, I'm wondering if it would be better/easier for our healers if I switched to PLD on this fight. Least we could stagger the hallowed ground for p6. Any suggestions along this front?

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I'm wondering if it would be better/easier for our healers if I switched to PLD on this fight. Least we could stagger the hallowed ground for p6. Any suggestions along this front?

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I do feel Paladins are more suited for this turn since it's continuously high damage and PLD can stagger their CDs easily but it's not impossible for Warriors. If you use Vengeance followed by Inner Beast x2 (from Infuriate) and then Thrill of Battle + Convalescence, it should be plenty of time for the DPS to down the rook and the old dread assuming you only have 1 Knight and 1 Soldier on you from phase 6. I haven't MT as warrior but it should be relatively similar with the addition of both healers virus the double dread during Thrill of Battle phase. This is without a Paladin to HG so both healers can focus on you.
For double PLD, have the MT HG first then OT HG then both tanks Sentinel followed by Rampart + Foresight then Bulwark + Convalescence.

Thanks Nate. Once I get the Dual Haken I'll likely stick to WAR, however, this week I'll get the Valor headpiece which will make both about equally geared due to having to switch to i70 accessories on War to meet accuracy right now.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Thanks Nate. Once I get the Dual Haken I'll likely stick to WAR, however, this week I'll get the Valor headpiece which will make both about equally geared due to having to switch to i70 accessories on War to meet accuracy right now.

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Just depends on what you are doing Whiskey. I MT this on Warrior every week. We do one dread method though. PLD is considered better with 2 dread method of course because of hallowed ground/cover and being able to save up those CDs for a good stagger. Warrior is definitely feesable for 1 dread tanking though. You are able to stagger your IB for every other Rotoswipe which is the large damage. Also when OT is taking more damage you can Infuriate for back to back IB on Rotoswipe. Then do Vengeance on third, etc. I have done both methods and I personally like the 1 dread better even if I go PLD, but to each their own on this one. Definitely get that Dual Haken though! Smexy is smexy!

Still not very consistent with T4.. I've cleared a couple times now as PLD MT and WAR OT. Just kinda wondering what the healers should actually be doing.. Our static whm usually runs to me in p4-p6 so I can get adds, but in pugs healers seem.. Cocky?.. and don't think it's necessary to make it easier for OT.. Our regular whm is out of town this week so we are having to find one, the couple we had last night didn't seem to want to co-operate (as in, they dropped after I told them to be in middle for p4-6).. So I'm just wondering - should the healers at least initially run towards the middle for p4-6 to make it easier to pick up adds? Or is it really on the OT to be everywhere at once? I did make an honest effort to find the whm but they kept running around which made grabbing the adds more difficult (and wastes time).

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

should the healers at least initially run towards the middle for p4-6 to make it easier to pick up adds? Or is it really on the OT to be everywhere at once?

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Depends on how your team transitions the phases but healers should stand in one place regardless. In phase 4, my white mage just stands where he was during phase 3, aka behind the dread and OT can pull everything off the healer from there. Shroud timing and Flash can take care of the aggro grabbing. In phase 6, as OT, you don't have to keep the spiders on you if the healers can handle double dreads with 1 at 2 stacks. The healer would stand at North corner, close to behind where the new dread spawn. I as MT get aggro on new dread right away. The only time the new dread face away from me is to eat the spiders so healer never got hit. If you OT want to keep spiders and the clockworks then yes, the healer (especially WHM) should move near where you can grab the two clockworks.

Our healers are usually either just behind where the New Dread spawns (West and just slightly northwards of middle) if feeding the spiders, and either Middle or South West if not. There's a Knight and Soldier that Spawn in the Middle and South West at the start of P6- these are usually the first that get picked up by the OT and dragged away from the rest of the team since they do a lot of AoE damage... once they are picked up, can voke spiders off later or get a Healer or DPS to bring them over to you later if needed.

Technically the safest place for the Healers to stand is South East as they'll just get a single spider spawning on them... but that's where we typically kite the spinner rook.

Like Lemon8or and Maelwys said, a bit behind the DNs spawn point is good. You're not in the middle but you're not far, so OT doesn't have to move much if at all. I usually will not need to move. Either the OT is doing his job right, or else I and/or the tank I'm healing are dead within a few seconds anyway.

Hmm.. As far as feeding bugs in p6, the smoothest runs I've had no bugs got fed, OT just holds them while group finishes up dread, then if enrage hit's it's just a few weak bugs doing damage instead of dread + enrage. I try to grab everything, was just having some major problems last night as the adds got spread out chasing the healer. Made me feel like a straight up noob lol

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Hmm.. As far as feeding bugs in p6, the smoothest runs I've had no bugs got fed, OT just holds them while group finishes up dread, then if enrage hit's it's just a few weak bugs doing damage instead of dread + enrage. I try to grab everything, was just having some major problems last night as the adds got spread out chasing the healer. Made me feel like a straight up noob lol

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Of course you can do that too. Our group just find it easier to feed the bugs right away so that's 2 less bugs to worry about aggro and 2 less bugs to kill.

Just echoing some advice given, as PLD OT, the most successful runs on specifically P6 have been when everyone but MT group dead center, as insurance only I've popped cover on the WHM in the group and after a couple of seconds, I'm flashing and use CoS to get all aggro. I'm usually slightly south of center, far enough away where bugs won't get gobbled, but close enough to group so flash and CoS hits everything. Pop HG, then hold somewhere south, running circles around the mobs. The two things that have always made it go wrong: a healer or both are away from or in completely different locations from me and each other or DPS starts going pew-pew without even waiting two seconds on an add.

As PLD doing OT, it seems far less chaotic to just group center for P6 adds, grab and move away, then people in different locations, hoping I can grab and keep aggro on everything. Especially since the healer will have already started healing.

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Originally Posted by AlrikRouge

As PLD doing OT, it seems far less chaotic to just group center for P6 adds, grab and move away, then people in different locations, hoping I can grab and keep aggro on everything. Especially since the healer will have already started healing.

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I think this largely depends on whether or not you're prepared to Flash - Flashing a Knight makes you eat some damage (700-800), but if you're using Hallowed Ground it doesn't matter. We sometimes have the OT hold the P5 Soldier/Knight into P6, and I really don't want to Flash two Knights at once without HG up... ;)

I mean I feel like I know where to be and when to be there for adds, it was just total chaos that I couldn't recover from. I wanted to make sure that having the healers gather around the middle for 2 seconds wasn't some sort of blasphemy lol