To the Dev Team. - Future Job System -

Hello!! First of all I would ask everyone who will read and/or answer this post, to cool down before write something.

Second, I would really apreciate If our favourite Community Rep (a.k.a Bayohne), would be so kind to show this things to the dev team, when he thinks that is ready to show.

Thank you.

The idea here is that everyones post his/her Thoughts about the future Job System.
It is obvious that there is a lot of "rage" about the little info that we have about the "job system"

There is a lot of speculation about maybe being introduced in the upcoming patch 1.18. If that's the case this won't help much, but If not, it may be a big help to the dev team, to not do something "bad" again.

What I'm looking for, is that everyone post what they want from the job system. The most clearly and easily possible. If someone wants just to kill classes and start with traditional Jobs from lv. 1; unlock Jobs with a quest and level up them from lv. 1 or 20 or wahtever level the quest will be; Multiple classes to unlock jobs, etc...

I'll be editing the post above this one, and try to put in just 1 post the general wish or wishes of the major part of the people.

That way, If Bayohne thinks that it may help or be important to the Dev Team, it will show this to them, and it will help the game to improve the way the players want, or seemed.

Also, remember to cool down before answering here please.

If more than 1 people wants the same thing (more or less) I'll just put a "+1 or +5 or +99" at the end.

Thank you.

Please, read this wise words from Kiara, before answering the Thread.

Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara

* Jobs should start at Level 1 only if it was an entirely, completely NEW "Job" with ~40 - 50 NEW Skills and Weaponskills.

Matsui-san and Yoshida-san have stated already that the "Jobs" we're getting are roles, a play style, *not* an entirely "New Job (with its own 40 - 50 New Skills).



Given that, we may realistically see only a handful of Special Skills associated with it. Let's say for example, Paladin. Given Matsui-san and Yoshida-san's comments about the limited number of skills, let's say they plan to add 4 New Skills to the Paladin:

* Holy
* Final Phalanx
* Provoke III
* Invincibility (2 Hour)

The *rest* of the Paladin's Skill Set is from Gladiator. It makes no sense to level up Paladin from Rank 1 all the way up to Rank 50 (FIFTY) for 4 new skills.

I think the big picture request from those that want a Rank 1 Job is that it comes with a Full Set (40 - 50 New Skills / Abilities).

And the big picture request from people who are fine with the Rank 50 Gladiator = Rank 50 Paladin, who want challenging Job Quests, and Job Skill Unlock Quests is from the condition that Matsui-san said we're NOT removing Classes, so Jobs are a *Play Style, with a very limited # of additional Skills.*

If they really made White Mage have 50 New Skills and be completely different from Conjurer, of course I can understand the sentiment of leveling White Mage from Rank 1. But it's not the case. That's an important clarification that needs to be made if you're trying to represent everyone's sentiments accurately.

Thanks.

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"Results from votes"

- People wants to level up the new jobs from level 1, to learn how to play them. (EdenArchangel, YUGON, Nordya, Chronic )
- At X level, be able to unlock the new job/jobs. Then start that job from lv. 1 BUT, leveling the original class till lv. 50 (capping it to 50 forever, or not) will unlock new skills/abilities, or give you a bonus for the unlocked Job.
- Pretty HARD quests/NM's to unlock the new Jobs abilities, giving us the sense of accomplishment when we finally get them. (ClashBlades, YUGON, Chronic, Kiara)
- Eliminate the Class=Weapon system, and take back the traditional Jobs. Actual levels may or may not be transfered to new jobs system (Gladiator lv. 40 = Paladin lv. 40) with it's abilities, traits, spells, etc.. (Cairdeas, Blitz0309, YUGON)
- The advanced jobs will be unlockable via quests, with or without a specific job to unlock a new one. (WiiSam)
- Possibility to keep the skill cross system, with a LOT of restrictions, or adding again the Job/SubJob System. (AlexiaKidd, EdenArchangel, Nordya)
- More weapons to be locked for advanced Jobs (Paladin = Swords, maces, etc...) (Reinheart, WiiSam)
- Increase the lv. cap for the Jobs (Not classes) (WiiSam)
- Improvement of the actual Armoury System, instead of unlocking new jobs (Physic, Kiara)
- Creating an improved Job/SubJob system doing it as Job/class system, with it's own boost on stats (AlexiaKidd, Physic, Nuru)

I have been wanting to share my fears regarding the devs' current responses.

Bayohne reported that Glad 50 will bring along with it Paladin 50, because it's just a title to lock you into a role and provide specific abilities.

We know that there will be more than one job/title per class in the future, because otherwise the current classes themselves would just be remodeled into their respective jobs.

Now my fear, since it is inevitable that we are going to receive more than one job per class:

Ex. Let's say down the line Conjurer branches into WHM, BLM, and RDM, purely for example.
I'm already a 50 Conjurer. Going by the Gladiator example, all of my jobs will be 50, as they're just tacked onto my Conjurer.
Aside from questing for abilities (which will surely be easy at current level cap), already attaining max level before they're even out is disheartening.

I want to level the jobs of my choosing from the very beginning of level 1, and experience the entire transformation.
Having it all handed to us in an already easy game is very scary to me.

I for one know that the job system will make it or break it for me, personally.
I can deal with repetitive zones, leves, everything else.
But my connection to the Final Fantasy world, my job, my role I fill in helping my friends... mess that up and I just don't get any enjoyment from it. =/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EdenArchangel

Now my fear, since it is inevitable that we are going to receive more than one job per class:


Aside from questing for abilities (which will surely be easy at current level cap), already attaining max level before they're even out is disheartening.

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I am hoping that the questing for abilities is not easy. I believe that it will be difficult, because this replaces the grind of leveling up. I think the dev team realizes that there has been an overwhelming outcry from the players stating that they want to level up the new jobs. My hope and current belief is that the acquisition of skills and abilities will not be easy and will give us the sense of accomplishment when we finally get them all. This will be very similar to the feeling of leveling a new job. As the job starting as the same level as the class is confirmed, this is the only kind of "leveling up" that I can hope for.

My ideal solution that I would love SE to do is to remove the Class=Weapon system. Next step would be to turn current classes into Jobs, ie GLA to PLD, PUG to MNK, MRD to WAR and so on. You current Rank in that class would be transferred to the new Job and the current classes would be gone.

Jobs would learn Traits, Skills/Spells and Abilities as you levelled them up. Weapons would be for learning weaponskills only and they would be unique to the weapon. Weapons would behave like normal gear and be equipped by Jobs on an individual basis. A new box put on them that would said "Equipped by.....", this would allow Jobs to uses weapons from other types but they would be done on an individual basis. So Sword A could say "Equipped by PLD, DRK, WAR, RDM, BLU, THF" then Sword B might say "Equipped by RDM" so only an RDM can use it.

Then introduce the sub job system to mix things up and allow flexibility without taking it too far and ruining the balance.

Yes I understand it is the same as FFXI's Job system but I really thought it was a great system and with what SE are trying to do by shoehorning a Job system on top of this Class system I honestly think they would be better off just going Job/Sub Job with traditional Jobs. The current system sounded great on paper and maybe if SE gave it their all to really flesh it out and try and make it work it probably would be great, however SE are running as fast as they can from what the system was designed to do by placing further restrictions on Cross Classing, removing Physical Level and adding this Job system on top and I fear it will just end up a mess and it would have been easier to just do away with it.

For those that like to solo, no problem give them solo Jobs like BST. Maybe even let you call your Companion to fight by your side, again like the Fellow system in FFXI. Better yet design content that is fun and rewarding for solo players without dumbing things down for those that like to group up as well.

TL: DR - Go look at FFXI SE you had a great base for a Job system right there, look at what people liked and build on it.

Going on Alexia Kidd's lines, I don't see the problem with removing the armoury system.
People just want the freedom of not being at a specific place to change classes (mog house) yes?

Just add a menu button that lets you change your 'class' and proceed to equip any viable weapon/tool for that class.

All the freedom of being able to change classes in the field, and freedom to choose equipment.

This frees up the 1 weapon: 1 class problem, provides class variety.

Starter jobs (ones choosable in character creation) would all be selectable, unlockable jobs would be added to your menu when you fulfill the requirements.

This would prevent the debacle that job titles will become.


I think people are too enamored with the prospect of the one piece of Final Fantasy coming into the game (familiar jobs) and are not willing to look at the big picture/future. =/

So many complaints, rage and speculations about the job system, and no one will post it here??

Perfect.
If no one wants to try to make an awesome job system for this game, it's perfect, but then stop the complaints in the whole forum.

To Joeking, and all the other people that my think like him:

No, I'm not "so cool" to make this post, and I'm not trying to seem cool and awesome. I just want to have a Job System that I like, because the little info that I have about it, I don't like.

If this can be of some service, it will be wonderful, but If not, no one will care about putting his/her ideas about, and lose 5 minutes for it.
It will always be better than complaint about the same thing in another Thread, or read some bullshit in another Threads.

I agree with Alexia Kidd and EdenArchangel, get rid of the 1 weapon = 1 class system, even if you keep the current classes in the game. I wouldn't mind them being reworked into the traditional FF jobs too.

If you really must, you can keep the "open" system with skills, allowing us to mix and match as we level the classes/job. But to be 50 GLA to unlock an all ready 50 PLD is a big turn off. Now if it unlocked a level 1 job called Paladin with it's own personality, then I'm all for it.

classes = your weapon of choice and over all play mechanics, each class/weapon has specific play mechanics.
pley mechanics
jobs- your actual role in battle and skills/traits that lend effectiveness to that role.
class specific skills. Usually skills that tie into creating the unique play mechanics of a class/weapon and some that only make sense with that weapon
overall skills, maybe used by any class though they may be learned in relation to certain other classes
job skills, only useable by certain jobs, which help define and optomize specific roles in a party.

job is the overall role, class is the playstyle, each job works with certain classes/weapons, some more specialized than others.

this system still allows for a custom class creation, while defining your role in a battle.

I do not like Weapons being locked to Jobs, I don't mind them being locked to classes. But at this point I'd rather they scrap the entire system. Leave the armoury system for the crafters and the job system for the combat Job.

Make Classes Crafters and Jobs Fighters.

Relevelling jobs makes little sense, because they are simply extensions of the current classes in various directions. A paladin will use many of the same skills as a Gladiator, with a few more gained via quests.

The reason they won't seperate classes from jobs (not only because of the above reason, that they're pretty much the same thing) is because they want everyone to be able to solo in the way they want to. This means that a conjurer will be able to solo relatively easily up to the max rank at the time, and then also switch to White mage when the situation calls for it but not have to suffer the shitty levelling process as a WHM who has little no offensive capability.

I don't get why people want to level it all over again. The difference between a Gladiator and a paladin won't be enough to warrant the need to relevel it in order to be 'skilled' at it. MMOs aren't that hard.

Classes meet the needs of people wanting to be casual and generally mould a class how they want to. Jobs meet the needs of people wanting classic job roles, and to feel like they're fulfilling a classic need.

I don't know why people are so hung up on it, for a FFXI reference: Imagine if a Scholar had to level up to max on the basic class, then the Dark Arts form and Light arts form. It's the same sort of situation, just extensions of a basic form.

Well, any job system i would want would require the currently armory system scrapped. And since they have said they aren't going to do that. Well... i guess its pointless to even discuss it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Physic

classes = your weapon of choice and over all play mechanics, each class/weapon has specific play mechanics.
pley mechanics
jobs- your actual role in battle and skills/traits that lend effectiveness to that role.
class specific skills. Usually skills that tie into creating the unique play mechanics of a class/weapon and some that only make sense with that weapon
overall skills, maybe used by any class though they may be learned in relation to certain other classes
job skills, only useable by certain jobs, which help define and optomize specific roles in a party.

job is the overall role, class is the playstyle, each job works with certain classes/weapons, some more specialized than others.

this system still allows for a custom class creation, while defining your role in a battle.

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Hello Physic!!

I don't understand your point.

You want SE to keep with the classes and give us the chance to "job that class", being a powerful version of the class?? (With unique skills, abilities, etc..)

Or unlock the job and level it, being able to switch between your class (Gladiator) and your job (Paladin)??

Please, can you calrify me your point, to edit it in the post??

thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blitz0309

Well, any job system i would want would require the currently armory system scrapped. And since they have said they aren't going to do that. Well... i guess its pointless to even discuss it.

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It may be pointless, but is better try it, than just sit and see what they do.

Thanks for your opinion =)

just what if for Jobs you get whatever weapon you can use for the class +1 extra weapon, or more specific weapon of that weapon category. Dunno how they are planning the job system until they announce something (HOPEFULLY SOON!!!) but if class stays the same but job can be upgraded split off into more jobs in the future it will end up with more weapon variety the Job can equip.

Like how the hell you going to do Red Mage or Blue Mage when DOM can't equip any sword, I don't want to see RDM that can't equip swords or Black Mage that can't use a dagger (although I always stuck with staff/rod in most cases in regular FF series)

Really want more info on the job system >< could be a game changer depending on how the system is made, and I really want to have some kind of point/leveling system in the job... I don't want to suddenly become a Job that has all the abilities and I didn't actually learn it on the way. Fun part for me on leveling up jobs in say FF5 was learning new spells as you gain levels, reason it kept me leveling that job (+ getting MASTER in all jobs in FF5)

Weapons being locked to jobs is not a bad thing, what they should do is add a more variety of weapons to lock to said class.

For example, hopefully at R50 a Gladiator can pick to be Paladin or Warrior: Paladin would equip swords, maces, daggers etc and a shield, Warrior will equip two weapons (Dual Wield).

Archer for example will be able to pick between Musketeer for Guns or some other long range weapons depending on the path they choose. That would solve the issue of classes being locked to weapons.

As for how the "Jobs" such as Paladin are acquired, I think there should be specific skills and abilities you should equip before it is unlocked and you will start at 50 but the max lvl for these "Advanced Jobs" can be increased to say 75.

For example, Gladiator gets ro R50, to unlock Paladin he will need to equip Cure 2 and maybe some other skills so to become a Paladin you must have GLA at 50 and CONJURER at 30. Once the required skills are equipped you become a paladin and you can then rank up to 75 to learn new Paladin ONLY skills.

Another example, to become a Warrior, you will need GLA at 50 and various attack skills from the dual wielding PUG. So once you have R30 PUG and R50 GLA you can unlock the dual wielding WARRIOR at R50 and rank that WARRIOR up to 75 to learn new WARRIOR ONLY skills!

To give more examples:

Red Mage would need maybe THM at 50 and GLA at 30. Dark Knight would be LNC or MRD at 50 and THM at 30.
Ninja would be PUG at 50 and GLA at 30. BLack Mage would be THM at 50 and maybe CONJ at 30, WHM is CONJ at 30 and THM at 30.

Etc! Use your imagination! At the end of these requirements, advanced jobs will be unlocked at 50, but you can rank them up to 75 to learn the class and its specific abilities :D

I would prefer to level each "Job" from lv 1 also. Job and skill quests should be tough and have a sense of accomplishment/.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YUGON

Hello Physic!!

I don't understand your point.

You want SE to keep with the classes and give us the chance to "job that class", being a powerful version of the class?? (With unique skills, abilities, etc..)

Or unlock the job and level it, being able to switch between your class (Gladiator) and your job (Paladin)??

Please, can you calrify me your point, to edit it in the post??

thanks.

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I dont believe in the releveling of jobs, or trying to take the skill sets of classes and make them jobs, first of all none of the classes, except maybe glad seems like it lines up with a classic job.

i believe they should use a title system, or an an extra layer for jobs, similar to what they apparently have planned, but they shouldnt make jobs a specialization of a specific class. a Job should be an overall role choice in a party, your class should be your technique in executing said role.

for example, as it stands, a pugilist is a fast attacking, combo using, reactive playstyle. but that doesnt define a role. lets say paladin was a tank role, designed around being able to self heal, increase defensive abilities, and gain enimity/protect party members with a White magic feel.
you could apply that to
pugilist playstyle, single target reactive evasion, self healing (pugilist gets more from heals)
gladiator playstyle single target slow, but most pure damage reduction versus a single target
marauder playstyle. multi target aoe actions and enimity building skills

I feel leveling a job which is basically identical to a class, minus a few skills, is bad game design. People who want this are driven by the lack of jobs to level now, and not an overall good vision for the game as a whole, for new players, and the future.

I feel that by making jobs into a system on top of classes, it allows for unique roles, without pigeonholding classes to a specific role for all time.

Scrapping the class/armory system for the purpose of creating more classic classes, feels like a bad idea to me. If you really were going to scrap the system, then i would remake it in a totally different way. the one road lifestyle for classes, doesnt sound good for this game, the whole game should be designed for that type of world, this game feels like it should be more free. the armory system actually makes sense on many levels.

They should also add saving of class skill loadouts, and add some that are given by npcs, for people who dont know how to make good builds.

Tutorials for classes, so as to train people in how to best use class mechanics. The game is in desperate need of a training room.

If you think of Classes as just Weapons (Which they are.), then there wouldn't be so much confusion. Being a Paladin in FFXIV would be the same as being a Paladin in FFXI. Both have sword+shield equipped. Both have Sword Weapon Skills. Both play the same role in party.

Again, over and over again, oh, and once more..

Classes are Weapons.

Oh, and i may have forgot to mention, but..

Classes are Weapons.

Does everyone understand this at all? imo The Armory System is what sets this game apart form other MMORPGs, and is not a bad idea at all. The concept that everyone can't seem to grasp is that Pugilist isn't the Job, its the Class. Better to see this as just a Hand-to-hand weapon character without a Job equipped. That's what FFXIV is right now. Its FFXI without Jobs. Equip any weapon you want along with weapon skills.

With the future Job System, its going to make for a stronger sense of accomplishment if you were to quest for abilities and make those quests hard to do.

Anyways, yeah. Classes are Weapons.

To Physic

So basically, you want an improvement of the currently Armoury System to define each class role, instead of making new jobs or advanced Classes, right??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Relevelling jobs makes little sense, because they are simply extensions of the current classes in various directions. A paladin will use many of the same skills as a Gladiator, with a few more gained via quests.

The reason they won't seperate classes from jobs (not only because of the above reason, that they're pretty much the same thing) is because they want everyone to be able to solo in the way they want to. This means that a conjurer will be able to solo relatively easily up to the max rank at the time, and then also switch to White mage when the situation calls for it but not have to suffer the shitty levelling process as a WHM who has little no offensive capability.

I don't get why people want to level it all over again. The difference between a Gladiator and a paladin won't be enough to warrant the need to relevel it in order to be 'skilled' at it. MMOs aren't that hard.

Classes meet the needs of people wanting to be casual and generally mould a class how they want to. Jobs meet the needs of people wanting classic job roles, and to feel like they're fulfilling a classic need.

I don't know why people are so hung up on it, for a FFXI reference: Imagine if a Scholar had to level up to max on the basic class, then the Dark Arts form and Light arts form. It's the same sort of situation, just extensions of a basic form.

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Hi YUGON,

I applaud you for trying to aggregate everyone's thoughts on the Job System into 1 Thread. :) I'm not sure how accurate it'll be, but at least you're trying.

I think one sentiment needs to be clarified in the request where people are asking for "Jobs to start at Level 1," it's what Sephr and physic have brought up in a few threads (and what I agree on):

* Jobs should start at Level 1 only if it was an entirely, completely NEW "Job" with ~40 - 50 NEW Skills and Weaponskills.

Matsui-san and Yoshida-san have stated already that the "Jobs" we're getting are roles, a play style, *not* an entirely "New Job (with its own 40 - 50 New Skills).

Quote:

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Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying. (Akihiko Matsui)

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Given that, we may realistically see only a handful of Special Skills associated with it. Let's say for example, Paladin. Given Matsui-san and Yoshida-san's comments about the limited number of skills, let's say they plan to add 4 New Skills to the Paladin:

* Holy
* Final Phalanx
* Provoke III
* Invincibility (2 Hour)

The *rest* of the Paladin's Skill Set is from Gladiator. It makes no sense to level up Paladin from Rank 1 all the way up to Rank 50 (FIFTY) for 4 new skills.

I think the big picture request from those that want a Rank 1 Job is that it comes with a Full Set (40 - 50 New Skills / Abilities).

And the big picture request from people who are fine with the Rank 50 Gladiator = Rank 50 Paladin, who want challenging Job Quests, and Job Skill Unlock Quests is from the condition that Matsui-san said we're NOT removing Classes, so Jobs are a *Play Style, with a very limited # of additional Skills.*

If they really made White Mage have 50 New Skills and be completely different from Conjurer, of course I can understand the sentiment of leveling White Mage from Rank 1. But it's not the case. That's an important clarification that needs to be made if you're trying to represent everyone's sentiments accurately.

Thanks.

Hi All,

I agree with ClashBlades, physic and Sephr:

Given what Matsui-san said about the Job System already (that it is a *playing style* using the Base Class as the basis (so the majority of the weaponskills and abilities come from the Base Class)):

I'd like the new Job System to have a challenging, multi-step set of Quests to Unlock the Job.

I'd like there to be challenging, engaging, multi-step sets of Quests to Unlock each of the Limited, New Weaponskills / Abilities for each New Job.

I hope they are challenging enough that it may take multiple tries and thoughtful strategy to unlock everything about that Job (the Job itself, and each of the limited, new Abilities).

Thanks for your encouraging words Kiara =)

All what you said about the job system, it's a good point to take into consideration, and more in what I'm trying in this post.
I'll edit the first post to clarify this, and If someone needs to have something edited, just post it here and I'll edit it.

Thanks.

Here is my other idea, this one keeps the Class system intact however so it is not my personal ideal solution:

I suppose the easiest way to describe my idea would be to think of it as the Job/Sub Job system present in FFXI but instead it would be Job/Class with Class being a sub job of sorts but there are a few tricks in here that would be new.

Firstly when you do not have a Job selected ie PLD, BLM, WHM and so on your Job is ADV (Adventurer). So when you start the game your Job is ADV and ADV is a vanilla class that allows your to cross class like you do now but has no special bonus traits that other Jobs have. When your ADV ranks up you get stats to assign how you wish just like other like the other Jobs so you can build your custom Job for soloing as you can now. Again this would use the system we have now only EXP would be used to Level up your ADV Job and SP would be for your Class.

Now for the other Jobs, for arguments sake lets say at Level 30 you can unlock Jobs for the Classes. So we rank up our GLA to level 30 and unlock PLD. Now PLD as a Job comes with certain traits, spells and skills. For example:

PLD Traits - Defence Bonus 1, Undead Killer 1, Resist Sleep 1, Shield Mastery 1 (Auto Guard)

PLD Skills - Invincible (2hr), Rampart, Phalanx, Provoke, Aegis Boon, Shield Bash, Cover.

PLD Spells - Cure, Protect, Shell, Banish, Flash, Holy.

The PLD will unlock new traits, spells and skills as by completing quests. To unlock these quests you will have to reach a certain Level with GLA so in essence your PLD Level is tied to your GLA level. So if my GLA is Level 50 my PLD is also Level 50 and I can undertake whatever quests I have unlocked to gain new/upgraded traits, spells and skills.

Now for the science bit ^^

If I have my job set as PLD and my class as GLA, I will have access to all my GLA skills and weapon skills as well and any that crossover will receive a boost. So Provoke could have a shortened recast time and increase the Enmity generated, things like that.

However, if I were to equip a Lance I would then be PLD/LNC, I would no longer have access to those extra GLA skills and weapon skills but all of my PLD traits, spells and skills would remain. I would however have access to LNC skills and abilities. If I was a Level 50 PLD but my LNC was only Level 20 then I would still be as tough stat wise as a Level 50 PLD but if I were to fight a Level 50 Mob I would miss a lot and do little DMG as my LNC skill is so low.

If however I do go out and fight lower Mobs and kill them I will receive SP for my LNC to Level up but not EXP for my PLD as that is tied to GLA.

Using the affinity system they could allow you to unlock higher affinity with a Lance and eventually allow you to turn into a capable PLD/LNC though as a tank you would still be better as a PLD/GLA for sure but at least this would allow you to use PLD/LNC even if it is situational and thus allowing a different play style for the job.

I would prefer it if the system was more flexible like this, while the Job is tied to the Class it is not limited to the class. I realise based on the info we have been given so far though that a system like this has very little chance of being implemented but I hope it does have some degree of flexibility as I really, really, really do not like the idea of being tied to a certain weapon on my Job forever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Here is my other idea, this one keeps the Class system intact however so it is not my personal ideal solution:

I suppose the easiest way to describe my idea would be to think of it as the Job/Sub Job system present in FFXI but instead it would be Job/Class with Class being a sub job of sorts but there are a few tricks in here that would be new.

Firstly when you do not have a Job selected ie PLD, BLM, WHM and so on your Job is ADV (Adventurer). So when you start the game your Job is ADV and ADV is a vanilla class that allows your to cross class like you do now but has no special bonus traits that other Jobs have. When your ADV ranks up you get stats to assign how you wish just like other like the other Jobs so you can build your custom Job for soloing as you can now. Again this would use the system we have now only EXP would be used to Level up your ADV Job and SP would be for your Class.

Now for the other Jobs, for arguments sake lets say at Level 30 you can unlock Jobs for the Classes. So we rank up our GLA to level 30 and unlock PLD. Now PLD as a Job comes with certain traits, spells and skills. For example:

PLD Traits - Defence Bonus 1, Undead Killer 1, Resist Sleep 1, Shield Mastery 1 (Auto Guard)

PLD Skills - Invincible (2hr), Rampart, Phalanx, Provoke, Aegis Boon, Shield Bash, Cover.

PLD Spells - Cure, Protect, Shell, Banish, Flash, Holy.

The PLD will unlock new traits, spells and skills as by completing quests. To unlock these quests you will have to reach a certain Level with GLA so in essence your PLD Level is tied to your GLA level. So if my GLA is Level 50 my PLD is also Level 50 and I can undertake whatever quests I have unlocked to gain new/upgraded traits, spells and skills.

Now for the science bit ^^

If I have my job set as PLD and my class as GLA, I will have access to all my GLA skills and weapon skills as well and any that crossover will receive a boost. So Provoke could have a shortened recast time and increase the Enmity generated, things like that.

However, if I were to equip a Lance I would then be PLD/LNC, I would no longer have access to those extra GLA skills and weapon skills but all of my PLD traits, spells and skills would remain. I would however have access to LNC skills and abilities. If I was a Level 50 PLD but my LNC was only Level 20 then I would still be as tough stat wise as a Level 50 PLD but if I were to fight a Level 50 Mob I would miss a lot and do little DMG as my LNC skill is so low.

If however I do go out and fight lower Mobs and kill them I will receive SP for my LNC to Level up but not EXP for my PLD as that is tied to GLA.

Using the affinity system they could allow you to unlock higher affinity with a Lance and eventually allow you to turn into a capable PLD/LNC though as a tank you would still be better as a PLD/GLA for sure but at least this would allow you to use PLD/LNC even if it is situational and thus allowing a different play style for the job.

I would prefer it if the system was more flexible like this, while the Job is tied to the Class it is not limited to the class. I realise based on the info we have been given so far though that a system like this has very little chance of being implemented but I hope it does have some degree of flexibility as I really, really, really do not like the idea of being tied to a certain weapon on my Job forever.

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The thing about Job is that they don't have their own separate rank. Only way i see stat boosts are if Paladin boosts Defense by +20%, Vitality +10%, etc. of what you currently have. So in other words, if you were a Lancer 20, PLD would only boosts those stats by so much.

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Originally Posted by YUGON

To Physic

So basically, you want an improvement of the currently Armoury System to define each class role, instead of making new jobs or advanced Classes, right??

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essentially yes, still...
well i would put it as a define role overall, i wouldnt link it to 1 job.

so each job would link to multiple classes

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Originally Posted by Nuru

If you think of Classes as just Weapons (Which they are.), then there wouldn't be so much confusion. Being a Paladin in FFXIV would be the same as being a Paladin in FFXI. Both have sword+shield equipped. Both have Sword Weapon Skills. Both play the same role in party.

Again, over and over again, oh, and once more..

Classes are Weapons.

Oh, and i may have forgot to mention, but..

Classes are Weapons.

Does everyone understand this at all? imo The Armory System is what sets this game apart form other MMORPGs, and is not a bad idea at all. The concept that everyone can't seem to grasp is that Pugilist isn't the Job, its the Class. Better to see this as just a Hand-to-hand weapon character without a Job equipped. That's what FFXIV is right now. Its FFXI without Jobs. Equip any weapon you want along with weapon skills.

With the future Job System, its going to make for a stronger sense of accomplishment if you were to quest for abilities and make those quests hard to do.

Anyways, yeah. Classes are Weapons.

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I actually agree with this concept, if people actually look at it this way.

These weapon specializations (classes) we're using currently are just a big pool of skills that we have available to us, and the better skills being available at higher levels, that's all there really is to it.

The jobs we will get are just more refined, and geared towards a singular purpose, not a multitude of variations.
Who says we can't unlock the job once we get a certain level and play AS that job and when we level we get exp toward the class that you had to go through to be that job?

If we have hard quests to gain certain abilities, then there would be a lot of accomplishment, and you would "learn" your job while questing to make it better.

All this does is take away from the grinding of mobs feel, and gives it a new direction. It's still a time sink/grind, but it changes how other MMOs have worked in the past, to give itself a twist that it can call its own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nuru

The thing about Job is that they don't have their own separate rank. Only way i see stat boosts are if Paladin boosts Defense by +20%, Vitality +10%, etc. of what you currently have. So in other words, if you were a Lancer 20, PLD would only boosts those stats by so much.

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like this, except that they may have certain skills lose cross class penalty, so cures on pld might be as good as a con, cures on a whm might be 20% stronger

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Originally Posted by Gath

I actually agree with this concept, if people actually look at it this way.

These weapon specializations (classes) we're using currently are just a big pool of skills that we have available to us, and the better skills being available at higher levels, that's all there really is to it.

The jobs we will get are just more refined, and geared towards a singular purpose, not a multitude of variations.
Who says we can't unlock the job once we get a certain level and play AS that job and when we level we get exp toward the class that you had to go through to be that job?

If we have hard quests to gain certain abilities, then there would be a lot of accomplishment, and you would "learn" your job while questing to make it better.

All this does is take away from the grinding of mobs feel, and gives it a new direction. It's still a time sink/grind, but it changes how other MMOs have worked in the past, to give itself a twist that it can call its own.

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That is because that is exactly what the armoury system was designed to do BUT it was changed before launch. Pre-launch (even before Alpha) the plan was to let Physical Level dictate you character growth. Physical Level was your Job but it was a completely blank slate. You created your own Job by adding skills and abilities from the Class system to create a truly unique Job/Character.

As Physical Level dictated your character it meant as it went up you could fight tougher things as that is what you were judged on. So if you had levelled a few classes and capped Physical Level even if you switched to a Rank 1 Class you could still fight much tougher mobs. You used affinity to help you specialise in skills that were outside of your currently equipped Class. It is only when you see this that the whole Armoury system fits into place. Classes are the building blocks to create your custom Job and Physical Level helps you shape that character in the direction you want to go.

However they changed it around and made Class Rank dominant and that has thrown the whole system out of sync really. It has turned Classes into half Jobs but as they were never designed to actually be Jobs they just feel a bit meh. Now SE are going even further away from the original vision and removing Physical Level completely, limiting cross classing further and adding a Job system on top of the remnants of the Class system and it just seems like a bad base to build on given the direction it looks like they are going.

I gonna start off by saying, im fine with the armory system, its cool and clevar.
I like that switching my weapon can easily switch my role.
What i dont like is that so many weapon types are bound to one role.
This limits future creation of jobs that people want to see with their steriotypical weapon

Conjurer-Radicals and Wands
Gladiator-Scimitars, Shorts Swords, Long Swords, Macuahuitls, Daggers
Pugilist-Knucks and Claws
Thaumaturge-Scepters and Rods

To be honest i think all these weapons are way to broadly catagorized, and limits possibilities with future classes.