Are melee jobs as hated on every other server?

Every day I can be sure that when I log on and look at the party finder, I will see dozens of parties looking to do end-game content, like ex primals and coil, that restrict all the dps slots to *RANGED* dps only! Is this how it works now? Melee jobs are just outcasts of society and shunned from content just because they can? Is it because there are a bunch of people running around permeating the notion that all melee suck and die to every aoe and ability?

Please tell me I'm wrong, that other servers don't look so unfavorably on melee classes, because this is so depressing to see I question why we even have melee jobs in the first place. Everything has been proven to be clear-able without melee, so is there any point to even playing one?

Only time I've seen "no melee" on Cactuar has been for Garuda extreme mode. I've seen a few Titan extreme party finders not wanting black mages as well.

A good monk will out-dps a good blm or smn every single time. I always take a melee for Titan X and Ifrit X. The problem is not the good monks, but the bad monks who don't know their rotation, don't know how to dodge, and don't know how to maintain uptime giving the best dps class a bad name.

Can't ssay about my server, but as a healer I don't like melee dps

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

A good monk will out-dps a good blm or smn every single time.

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^ This pretty much. It's just people wanting to be lazy and cheese all the content with all ranged.

Show some love, people!

I love playing with some melee in the party (as a healer at that) and there are toooooooons of them on Excalibur. I actually have a really good Mnk in my coil static and we love his DPS. We always make him go Mnk.

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Originally Posted by Billzey

Saying that a MNK will out-dps X job every single time is incredibly ignorant. There are many fights that favor ranged dps over melee, not to mention that people seem to overestimate MNK dps to begin with.

Essentially, there is no fight that 'requires' melee dps, so why use it? Sure you can use melee dps in coil groups that don't suck, but in PUGs, you might as well use all ranged to lessen the chance of failure.

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I started to agree with you with the bit about Mnk out DPSing other classes as some fights even Drg can out DPS Mnk in single target and it's very situational what class can out DPS what but you completely lost me on the second half of your post. Sure no fight *requires* melee but it makes a LOT of them easier.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Most melees can't seem to dodge from my experience doing Garuda Ex. Good ones are rare so I've become anti-melee lately.

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I actually run into more bad ranged than bad melee. Maybe I'm just lucky (unlucky?) with that but I find that they tend to pick up mechanics slower and get tunnel vision easier due to having it "easy".

Saying that a MNK will out-dps X job every single time is incredibly ignorant. There are many fights that favor ranged dps over melee, not to mention that people seem to overestimate MNK dps to begin with.

Essentially, there is no fight that 'requires' melee dps, so why use it? Sure you can use melee dps in coil groups that don't suck, but in PUGs, you might as well use all ranged to lessen the chance of failure.

Most melees can't seem to dodge from my experience doing Garuda Ex. Good ones are rare so I've become anti-melee lately.

good melee >/= good ranged > bad ranged >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad melee

The single target limit burst at least might be worth having. I think the real issue is that designing for ranged lets them do really cool and difficult looking encounters with a lot of stuff players can just ignore since they're ranged. People always take the path of least resistance. As long as bards have Mana Song and BLM have that 10% elemental damage debuff(or whatever) you'll see them favored.

Either they can give melee something better than their LB (or buff it ... kind of dumb) or just actually make ranged deal with more mechanics rather than being able to go full turret mode.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Most melees can't seem to dodge from my experience doing Garuda Ex. Good ones are rare so I've become anti-melee lately.

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Had a garuda extreme group the other day that was giving the melee hell for not dodging (to be fair, he dodged friction cast on him to wind up in the WW). I had enough of the hatemongering. I pulled Surpana during the tornado phase to the ranged group. The majority of them died. I told them to stop harassing the melee as they were unable to dodge.

It's not a hard fight. Melee should be able to dodge things. Ranged doesn't need to be so venemous, though. I encourage more tanks to pull to the ranged group. Let them start worrying about dodging shit.

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Originally Posted by Billzey

Saying that a MNK will out-dps X job every single time is incredibly ignorant. There are many fights that favor ranged dps over melee, not to mention that people seem to overestimate MNK dps to begin with.

Essentially, there is no fight that 'requires' melee dps, so why use it? Sure you can use melee dps in coil groups that don't suck, but in PUGs, you might as well use all ranged to lessen the chance of failure.

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Talking about ignorant then saying only use ranged. May as well just get rid of melee from the entire MMO if that's the case.
Why bother? Just let everyone pewpew from far away on every class/job.

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Originally Posted by mythicrose

Had a garuda extreme group the other day that was giving the melee hell for not dodging (to be fair, he dodged friction cast on him to wind up in the WW). I had enough of the hatemongering. I pulled Surpana during the tornado phase to the ranged group. The majority of them died. I told them to stop harassing the melee as they were unable to dodge.

It's not a hard fight. Melee should be able to dodge things. Ranged doesn't need to be so venemous, though. I encourage more tanks to pull to the ranged group. Let them start worrying about dodging shit.

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As with most MMO players, everyone is myopic. Tanks, healers, and ranged are gonna flip out about melee dodging. It's unfortunate but if ranged had as much of a dodging responsibility and further such a high DPS loss caused by dodging early(which really is more of the problem), they'd probably fail as much and just see melee bitch them out.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

but the bad monks

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Exactly.

Unfortunately, bad melee players stick out a lot more than bad range players. They see the amount of times melee dps fail (as they're more prone to attacks) and everyone automatically don't want them in their team.

It's the same with BLMs on Titan. People see how poor, bad BLMs are at Titan EX, so they automatically assume all BLMs are terrible at Titan EX.

In truth, I've seen good BLM's wreck Titan EX, and good Melee DPS out play BRDs at Garuda EX.

I even see "Ranged Only" on Titan EX and Ifrit EX. lol

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Originally Posted by dark494

Every day I can be sure that when I log on and look at the party finder, I will see dozens of parties looking to do end-game content, like ex primals and coil, that restrict all the dps slots to *RANGED* dps only! Is this how it works now? Melee jobs are just outcasts of society and shunned from content just because they can? Is it because there are a bunch of people running around permeating the notion that all melee suck and die to every aoe and ability?

Please tell me I'm wrong, that other servers don't look so unfavorably on melee classes, because this is so depressing to see I question why we even have melee jobs in the first place. Everything has been proven to be clear-able without melee, so is there any point to even playing one?

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Melee jobs generally mess up the most, so safe to say not liked on many servers.
By mess up i dont nessassarly mean Die, but cause deaths.

How do i put this, its not just people not liking Melee players, but also a lack of Melee players & knowelege about the classes & there advantages & heres why: skills, mechanics & LAGG.

Lagg: its there, its bad, the game clearly wasnt designed with latency in mind they can agrue that all the want but from experiance & what i've seen the proof is so clearly visible a blind man could see it!!!!
Lagg causes issues with LB, skills, Dodging which is 100% of the Melee class.
Mechanics is a close second: Heres a few examples, but there are many others.
Allagan Rot Melee just move around dont bother cheaking for attacks & auto pass then blame someone else
Titan & moving around & PK'ing groups with plumes is another good example. using Jump & PK'ing healers with plumes is another for the same fight.
Limit break: 1. Not using it, 2. Not using it at the start when its clearly better to rebuild & LB again at the end. 3. Wasting LB on a certain "primal" fight when it'd be better to keep it for tank to pop bombs OR healer/bard to raise party after bombs. Basicly if ur not going to use it Your not needed & Geared Melee dont use it generally.
Also with the enemy attacks your right in the middle of a Large red area you can bearly escape, Many players due to latency cant escape. (so unessassary deaths due to mechanics.)
Skills: monk can silence, but the skill seems to not work for some reason for alot of players, Drgs can.... nothing well 9k LB3 & can break stoneskin on enemys, but this is overlooked due to so many players playing ranged due to the lagg/more room to dodge, So its easier to fill party with ranged who have these skills & actually use them.

The issue of so many geared ranged players will go down if they STOP increasing gear levels every few months. then Melee classes will probably pick up more & players will know more about them & start requesting them more.

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Originally Posted by mythicrose

Had a garuda extreme group the other day that was giving the melee hell for not dodging (to be fair, he dodged friction cast on him to wind up in the WW). I had enough of the hatemongering. I pulled Surpana during the tornado phase to the ranged group. The majority of them died. I told them to stop harassing the melee as they were unable to dodge.

It's not a hard fight. Melee should be able to dodge things. Ranged doesn't need to be so venemous, though. I encourage more tanks to pull to the ranged group. Let them start worrying about dodging shit.

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Of course they'd get hit, they've never dealt with the mechanic before. Playing with over 20 different melee dps in coil i've only met 1 that was any good (Can dodge while doing good dps). So yea most melees suck at this game.

1. There are not a lot of melee dps.
2. Within the amount who are, most suck.

I've partied with many melee dps and a lot of them just mindlessly attack and expect heals. I blame lower level dungeons for spoiling them (and me) into thinking they can be lazy.

There seems to be a fine line between "bad" melee dps and "good" melee dps. You either suck pretty bad (die a lot, bad dps output) or are amazing and can dodge all aoe/cleaves and give great dps output. I rarely see a "decent" melee dps.

But Ultros is pretty friendly to melee. I've had great luck getting parties for most content.

Only fight I've ever really "struggled" on as a melee was garuda extreme, but I consider that bad fight mechanic design than anything else.

Sure I could learn how to dodge it properly or ask my entire group to alter their strategy just for me...

OOOOR I could just switch to black mage, stand in the center, and roll my face across the keyboard and win.

I'm on Hyperion also and have noticed this a lot lately. I'll tell you what though. My main focus on XIV is DPS jobs. I leveled my Monk and Dragoon to 50 not only because of the benefits that I needed for my Monk from my DRG, but also because I like the challenge. I love monk, the potential of amazing damage and combos I can get from certain rotations and having to move from back to flank etc. I like having to know when to dodge and when i need to place myself here vs. over there. We get a lot of hate and its probably mainly due to people that take DPS as an easy just stand there job without knowing the mechanics of each job.

I am not saying I am an amazing DPS, I will say that I took the time to understand what my job is and what it consists of. While others probably just don't care about the science behind it. That puts a bad name on the majority of us DPS'ers that really try hard and have room for slight improvement, but dont get recognition for actually doing our job right.

People shouldn't shun away from our jobs. It takes fast reaction times, some understanding and the ability to take criticism (good or bad) and hopefully not bad lag issues. I guess on Hyperion, we just need to make our own groups

All these statements about players being bad or most players being bad and whatnot are pretty much worthless elitist crap. Everyone acts like they're the best, especially on forums where people don't call you out on anything and people try to look cool for upvotes. But everyone has off days. Everyone has to start somewhere and learn fights. If you want to have a constructive discussion about mechanics you should just assume all players are rational, decent players.

Ultimately, melee is just straight up disadvantaged in a lot of fights and in general gameplay. Garuda XM is quite ridiculous for this. It's like it was designed to bone melee totally. Can a quote unquote "good" melee deal with the design? Yeah. But why would you even bring those problems into your group composition in the first place if you had the choice.

I decided to mainly run healer even though I main monk for Garuda XM because being a melee is just being a liability. And as a healer, whenever I run with a melee it's just such a huge risk. They will take damage and either die or take attention away from the tank in those precious seconds where they must be at 100%, eat wicked wheels and get topped off. So much less worry if melee is out of the picture. It's dumb.

And then of course the elitist people, who are actually scrubs, will talk about how bad the melee are. It's just the poor design that screws over melee.

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I think Melee job are hated in Non-Legacy Server, tho there is dislike for melee in general due to how the game is designed, Melee in Legacy servers are pretty good at it.

Saw a ranged only party finder for Garuda HM this weekend. The cancer is spreading (I sincerely hope it was just a joke).

Hyperion (OP's server too) is legacy, so it doesn't seem to matter legacy or not. The sheep see one way of doing things and just copypasta.

That's why all these groups still have the MT pull Garuda and Suparna, even though there's no reason to ever have to bother with double wicked wheel.

The whole issue really is not about how good or bad dps melee does, or how good or bad the players are. The issue is that majority of fights are designed in such a fashion that having ranged over melee makes it easier.

Give me MNK over SMN and BLM any day. Except for GEX. And.. That is it really. Is there any other fight that is so bad for melee? I can't think of one.... I rarely come across a "bad" monk, and even then it is usually just practice. Often times they switched from a ranged class and haven't learned how to manage the different style of play yet.

A lot of people say that the problem with Garuda XM is the WW that eats up melee. This should not be a problem to dodge. The REAL problem with Garuda XM is the tornadoes. You can be the best DRG/MNK in the game and dodge/tank through WW. However, you end up forced to waiting behind the tornadoes after killing Suparna for the Ranged to kill Chirada. It is a HUGE drop in DPS that is unavoidable regardless of player skill. That is the very definition of poor design. When you consider this, it makes sense that people would forgoe using melee in that fight.

If you're a melee DPS and you're having trouble with WW, you're just bad.

It just shows they need to buff Melee DPS a little more.

OMG we need a MNK/DRG they do sick dmg.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

A lot of people say that the problem with Garuda XM is the WW that eats up melee. This should not be a problem to dodge. The REAL problem with Garuda XM is the tornadoes. You can be the best DRG/MNK in the game and dodge/tank through WW. However, you end up forced to waiting behind the tornadoes after killing Suparna for the Ranged to kill Chirada. It is a HUGE drop in DPS that is unavoidable regardless of player skill. That is the very definition of poor design. When you consider this, it makes sense that people would forgoe using melee in that fight.

If you're a melee DPS and you're having trouble with WW, you're just bad.

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Both MNK and DRG have a quick range get in your face attack. This should be used in this case.
You will avoid the dmg.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

A lot of people say that the problem with Garuda XM is the WW that eats up melee. This should not be a problem to dodge. The REAL problem with Garuda XM is the tornadoes. You can be the best DRG/MNK in the game and dodge/tank through WW. However, you end up forced to waiting behind the tornadoes after killing Suparna for the Ranged to kill Chirada. It is a HUGE drop in DPS that is unavoidable regardless of player skill. That is the very definition of poor design. When you consider this, it makes sense that people would forgoe using melee in that fight.

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This isn't true; both classes can use their ability designed to close the distance to a target and end up undamaged.

Garuda Ex is about the only encounter where it's inconvenient to be a melee. Most of the people that play this class don't know when to back out for abilities, and the issue becomes compounded when you're in a very enclosed spot during tornado phase.

My static has 2-3 melee (2 DRG, depends on if the MNK is online at the time we raid). So if we make a group looking for no melee...well, its because we've got more than enough already...

We've also found very few melee randoms who can match us, so yeah, we do tend to not look for melee unless we absolutely have to (everyone is on an alt going for loot and we need the LB)

But...this doesn't mean we like ranged any better; we've definitely found our share of worse rDPS than many bad melee. Oddly enough, on Titan EX and Ultima HM, I see more BRD dying to stuff than any other class...which makes no sense to me whatsoever...

Its a group composition thing for us really...

The only times I excluded melees from my PF is when I specifically am going for the loot and got tired of rolling against another person and/or I don't trust people to handle mechanics well. :/

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

A lot of people say that the problem with Garuda XM is the WW that eats up melee. This should not be a problem to dodge. The REAL problem with Garuda XM is the tornadoes. You can be the best DRG/MNK in the game and dodge/tank through WW. However, you end up forced to waiting behind the tornadoes after killing Suparna for the Ranged to kill Chirada. It is a HUGE drop in DPS that is unavoidable regardless of player skill. That is the very definition of poor design. When you consider this, it makes sense that people would forgoe using melee in that fight.

If you're a melee DPS and you're having trouble with WW, you're just bad.

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Shoulder Charge or Spineshatter Dive will get you through.

Notice how in the cinematics, there's no dragoon or monk...?

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

A good monk will out-dps a good blm or smn every single time. I always take a melee for Titan X and Ifrit X. The problem is not the good monks, but the bad monks who don't know their rotation, don't know how to dodge, and don't know how to maintain uptime giving the best dps class a bad name.

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Or even better, totally ignore Monk because it doesn't use Piercing damage.
Instead take one Dragoon for Disembowel and a bunch of Bards.

Sorry Monk, but you're only ever good for beating on Atomos.