why do most of ppl insisted MT take suparna and garuda

hi,
i have read most ppl suggest mt take chidara and garuda in forum, so to avoid one shotted by ww.. but i have run with a few grp in game, and they insisted me go for suparna and garuda...i ask why and yet they just said it being done this way.
anyone care to explain the reason of MT go for suparna and garuda? instead of chidara and garuda. thanks

the fight is extreme mode sorry for that

First I was told that because suparna and garuda switches places it would mess up tanking if ot pulled suparna. However I've read on the forums that this doesn't happen if you it suparna so I would like to know this as well.

Either way chiradas downburst hit for about as much as ww except it isn't aoe and can't be dodged so for a melee dps perspective its easier if ot pulls chirada so they don't have to worry about dodging.

I've always thought that the MT should take Chirada. My FC and I have completed Garuda EX multiple times following this formula. Not sure why people insist on the MT taking Spurana and Garuda. Could have something to do with melee DPS, but I would think you would never want the Melee DPS taking two WW, so having both Spurana and Garuda together isnt a good idea. Also, if you set up your group to be only Ranged DPS this fight gets even easier.

You can dodge both wheel attacks, you cant dodge chirada's downburst.

When we have melee, OT takes Chi, MT takes Sup. Ranged (3 of them, we won't have more than 1 melee unless we absolutely have to thanks to the mechanics) DPS Sup as the OT and melee DPS Chi. Sup usually goes down with no issues, and both heals can focus on the MT (Chi just can't OHK a good tank). Sup and Garuda alos never jump and switch places doing this (as long as Sup is killed first they don't) Even if there is time for the melee to get to Garuda it won't be for long, so normally we just have them sit around until its time to kill Spiny. Yeah, this may extend the fight a tiny bit, but the stronger melee LB does a bit more damage than a caster's, so I'd say its about the same time as 4 ranged, or even shorter

With 4 ranged we have MT take Chi and OT, DPS focus Sup first. WW won't OHK either tank if the tanks are good, and heals split focus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kerwin

You can dodge both wheel attacks, you cant dodge chirada's downburst.

---

how do you dodge wheels?

I prefer it - Just time your CD's correctly just after friction - and you should not even go below 40%. - Also get your whm/sch to chuck shields/SS on you.

thanks all for the strat, but i guess ur just didnt mention why ppl insist MT on sup and garuda..
but i have come up with a conclusion after reading PArcher reply, so both healer can concentrate heal on MT? if ot take chi?

I blame Mr Happy for the Suparna/Garuda pull method.

Always been doing it this way. We split the heals so I focus on the MT and other healer is on OT. Melee will never take 2 Wicked Wheels because OT will provoke Suparna when MT needs to taunt the Spiny Plume.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lupus_Lux

I blame Mr Happy for the Suparna/Garuda pull method.

---

yeah that n00b has caused me to wipe so much . worst guide ever .

Chirada heals garuda, and people want to prevent that. It is a tiny bit silly though, not worth killing your melee dps.

You need provoke for the plume.

Therefore you cannot have provoke ready to take both Garuda and Suparna back if you split them.

Chirada does very little damage to the offtank and allows your healers to keep them up with hots while keeping the other tank shielded and topped off if they cannot sidestep and get out of Wicked Wheel range.

Triangle Method

This method is much easier, I suggest you try it
Mr. Happy's guide is ridiculous and shouldn't be trusted and causes wipes if someone (the tanks) make a mistake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Squa

how do you dodge wheels?

---

Yes want to know too, this is an aoe circle, how you dodge them except you run far away with the good timing ? How dodge them in the tornado phase ? Make me happy guys, tell me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akirakogami

Chirada heals garuda, and people want to prevent that. It is a tiny bit silly though, not worth killing your melee dps.

---

neither of them actually give regen or determination up to garuda for EX. they just make her temporarily invincible and give her a crazy strong AOE move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IfritReborn

Triangle Method

This method is much easier, I suggest you try it
Mr. Happy's guide is ridiculous and shouldn't be trusted and causes wipes if someone (the tanks) make a mistake

---

When you go in with a Jpn group, they will use this (and/or variance of this) strategy.

Whirlwind comes 4 seconds after the specific-target Friction is fired. With that knowledge, you can mitigate a large amount of that damage through sacred soil (if you're using 2 healers or a SCH solo heal) and a tank CD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Harmonium

Yes want to know too, this is an aoe circle, how you dodge them except you run far away with the good timing ? How dodge them in the tornado phase ? Make me happy guys, tell me.

---

You already figured it out.

Both methods work just fine. Each add has the same abilities, even if at different times. Eventually Suparna and Garuda will switch places, but if you have high enough dps, that isn't an issue. I'm not certain, but I think both stoneskin buffs on Garuda go down once Suparna dies as well. Or at least, in the one time I was in a group that finally killed Suparna first, that appeared to be the case, whereas both stoneskins have appeared to still be up when Chirada was dead. This can allow an extra bane and/or MT dps on Garuda as Chirada's finished off.

When solo healing Garuda EX I definitely prefer having the MT take both Wicked Wheels. This allows me to focus almost all of my healing on the MT and the occasional Friction on the party, while the OT is kept topped off by whatever Eos decides to throw their way. If Garuda and Suparna are split, I have to worry about keeping both tanks topped off (in addition to dealing with the inevitable MNK/DRG eating a Wheel) and it's just annoying. Wicked Wheel is extremely predictable and is easily handled with proper cooldown usage. I make sure to place Adloquium/Eye for an Eye on the tank beforehand and the tank pops a cooldown or two. They then take about 3k, maybe 3.5k damage total from both Wicked Wheels, which is completely manageable. With two healers it doesn't really matter since you can just have one healer focus on each tank. The fight isn't very healing intensive anyway.

Seriously, just push Rampart/Sentinel or Inner Beast and you'll be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grailer

yeah that n00b has caused me to wipe so much . worst guide ever .

---

Really not sure how your inability to execute a completely valid strat somehow makes him the "n00b"...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ninix

When solo healing Garuda EX I definitely prefer having the MT take both Wicked Wheels. This allows me to focus almost all of my healing on the MT and the occasional Friction on the party

---

Garuda's instant Friction is always aimed at healers (At least it is with 2 healers, I don't know if her behaviour changes with 1). Just stand the opposite "corner" to them and your ranged will never get hit by it. They still have to dodge friction from the sisters, but that's telegraphed with the red circle.

no its not it, friction can target anyone but the most threat. this is call baiting when you don't stack mages, the fight magically becomes safer

mt also tanks suprana because of regen. The Garuda jump is also bad because you start getting feather everywhere if dps is just slightly slow. as long as suprana dies before they run out of CD it is good. a half decent tank and good mages will do what drama name calling can not.

regen, eye for eye, super virus on garuda, virus on suprana is probably enough to make sure suprana is dead before tank runs out of CD

OT on chirada makes for easy tanking and frees up the voke for spiny. if your giving suprana that unpredictable wicked is surely cause trouble when healers are all focused on mt

Mr happy video is definitely the go to stat. It works well and teaches well. Any tank that can't do that will just call foul in other contents as well. If you can't live pass Garuda and suprana spam. You'll dies elsewhere as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kukurumei

no its not it, friction can target anyone but the most threat.

---

Garuda's Friction can only target Healers. (this doesn't have a red target circle, because its undodgable)

Chirada & Suparna's Friction can target anyone besides thieir #1 threat.

Having MT take Garuda+Suprana and OT take Chirada is vastly superior when using any melee DPS.


We have hard parses on this fight where every single DPS has taken 1000 or less damage, so really all damage on DPS is avoidable besides Mistral Shriek. I think my personal best was only taking 342 damage the entire fight on MNK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ninix

Really not sure how your inability to execute a completely valid strat somehow makes him the "n00b"...

---

Considering the ilvl requirement to DF this fight, I'm convinced the 3 way pull is the way the fight was designed to be done. It is simply superior to MrHappy's method in that it removes most of the points of failure out of the equation. MrHappy's method is valid, but relies on overgearing the content.. A tank at the intended ilvl would have to perform flawlessly to get past the double wicked wheels.

EDIT: for what it's worth, almost all my kills have been done with me MTing using MrHappy's strat because that's the goto strat for many english speaking people. My first encounter with the 3 way pull made it very clear how much better it was. Any time I have tried to ask groups to do the 3 way pull it's usually met with people unfamiliar with the strategy so to save time we always end up with the 2 way pull. So I'd have to agree that MrHappy's video guide did more harm than good because it popularised an inferior strategy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kayuwoody

Considering the ilvl requirement to DF this fight, I'm convinced the 3 way pull is the way the fight was designed to be done. It is simply superior to MrHappy's method in that it removes most of the points of failure out of the equation. MrHappy's method is valid, but relies on overgearing the content.. A tank at the intended ilvl would have to perform flawlessly to get past the double wicked wheels.

EDIT: for what it's worth, almost all my kills have been done with me MTing using MrHappy's strat because that's the goto strat for many english speaking people. My first encounter with the 3 way pull made it very clear how much better it was. Any time I have tried to ask groups to do the 3 way pull it's usually met with people unfamiliar with the strategy so to save time we always end up with the 2 way pull. So I'd have to agree that MrHappy's video guide did more harm than good because it popularised an inferior strategy.

---

Maybe, maybe not. An ilvl 65 tank still has around 5.8k HP, and a war with 6k+. As stated by yoshi, all content after garuda HM is made for players that have all their cross classes received. So the happy method still applies even at that level, if you have a good team.

Melees can travel between tornados, they can dodge wicked wheel and feathers if they get the timing down.

A MT can survive the double wicked and feathers if the healers are doing pre-shields+virus (you lazy blms work!) And so on.

Don't mis-understand the pug (me myself and I) nature and a well oiled team. Most of the tactics in garuda ex can be found, and matured in coil teams of 2.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kukurumei

mt also tanks suprana because of regen. The Garuda jump is also bad because you start getting feather everywhere if dps is just slightly slow. as long as suprana dies before they run out of CD it is good. a half decent tank and good mages will do what drama name calling can not.

---

This is an incorrect statement. Just because the green line is there, there is no regen. When my group killed Suparna first to avoid excess double wicked wheels and make our OT able to do more than sit around twiddling their thumbs after Chirada was dead, we found Garuda had less health not having her SS up so long which works wonders with SMN or other classes that can DOT well.

Mr. Happy's strat I think is severely flawed in various ways, but it was the first one out and made by a premade of really good players, so they can afford the tight strategy. Really just basic thinking about it keeping melee on Chirada amd blasting down Suparna with ranged is the way to go. Both tanks can actually contribute DPS to a mob the whole time, it makes for less double wicked wheels that can potentially one shot the MT, it drops Garuda's SS so you can get a little more DPS and have less phases to hope no one messes up in, and if melee don't go to Suparna they never need to worry about getting 1 shotted or dodging wicked wheel let alone jumping through tornadoes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaonis

This is an incorrect statement. Just because the green line is there, there is no regen. When my group killed Suparna first to avoid excess double wicked wheels and make our OT able to do more than sit around twiddling their thumbs after Chirada was dead, we found Garuda had less health not having her SS up so long which works wonders with SMN or other classes that can DOT well.

Mr. Happy's strat I think is severely flawed in various ways, but it was the first one out and made by a premade of really good players, so they can afford the tight strategy. Really just basic thinking about it keeping melee on Chirada amd blasting down Suparna with ranged is the way to go. Both tanks can actually contribute DPS to a mob the whole time, it makes for less double wicked wheels that can potentially one shot the MT, it drops Garuda's SS so you can get a little more DPS and have less phases to hope no one messes up in, and if melee don't go to Suparna they never need to worry about getting 1 shotted or dodging wicked wheel let alone jumping through tornadoes.

---

No garuda does regen, it is not that big a deal, but considering the only real time you have a crack at garuda is the eye phase, it matters. A lot. Plus garuda's astral flow gets stronger and stronger, making more phases more troublesome.

And if you make dps tank chirada, trying to eat downburst, you have stupidly loose threat, no position damage modifiers, and 3 way healing, which is stupid.

Let's put it this way, with a good team the happy way you can 1healer it. That's how effective it is when done right. Damage and ilevel is not that big of a factor (though HP is a problem).

Trying to say Mr. Happy is flawed, then 3 way tanking is super flawed. All you are doing is focusing it on wicked wheel. That's actually quite easy part of the equation. One problem doesn't out weight 4-5 problems elsewhere.

FYI the OT and melee do not twittle their thumbs in in the tornado phase. Stop incerting "PUG" with "happy" OT should be poking the spiny down to 15% and You can move through tornados no problems if you watch it closely.

Our OTs/Melees can travel through tornado in 5-10 seconds, and pounce on garuda from behind. There is no hesitation. No one is standing there unless they're on the "learning" phase. Average wise garuda won't even finish a 2nd tornado phase if done right.