Would Abjuration's be possible in FFXIV? Future Gear.

SE would it possible to get Abjuration's added to Endgame Content in the future?

For those who don't know what Abjuration's are, They are item's dropped from NMs/HNMs and other Endgame bosses. Then you need to buy a Cursed Item (this is where crafting comes in) the Cursed Item can be NQ or HQ, Then you bring it to a NPC that removes the Curse and give you the gear.

Easy. Adding ABJ's to the game would give Crafter's and possibly Gather's a new purpose that is useful. While keeping Endgame Content fun.

As for the Crafting of the Cursed Item maybe Some from Gathering and then the best Material's obtained from Myth Tomes or the new Tomes coming in 2.2(possibly). And then a Crafter to craft it.

By making some of the materials harder to obtain would keep the value high. Look at Phil items when the game first launched they were going for 100k+ now your lucky to get 5k. But adding a new crafting item to a Tome that has a weekly cap would make sure price's stayed constant.

Players would have choice Relic/AF2 or some Crafting Mats. So I don't believe prices would ever hit rock bottom like we see with Phil items because there is a cap. And by doing so would keep crafting/gather relevant and therefore breath new life into the economy.

As for the ABJ's they could drop from new content. Idk what the plans for 2.4 are but that would be new CoB additions so they could possibly drop there and eventually they could add more here and there.


I really think it would help.

Edit
Also They could add a Cursed Section to the crafting menu where we have Dyes, PVP, Housing crafts. Another thing maybe they could somehow raise the level needed to HQ the items, So HQ isn't 100% possible even with all level 50 crafts abilities.


If we had ABJ's added to Endgame Content it would still be the same as going to say CoB relying on RNG. And then getting the Cursed item either you buy it or you use your Tomes to buy the materials and make it yourself or get someone to do it for you. I doubt that it would turn into FFXI where Cursed Hauby -1 was 20mil forever. Crafting in this game is pretty simple and easy to level.

So it wouldn't be impossible for someone to get the gear (aside from the content difficulty). It will be no different than CoB RNG we have now.

Having ABJ's would keep people doing Engame Content for the drops, It would keep Crafters/Gathers busy, And it will also put Gil into the Casual Players pocket by selling a few Tome Materials. There will always be 2 sets of High End Gear according to Yoshi, So why not add something that will Fix one of the biggest issues we have while keeping everything working as intended with lockouts?

As for the Tome Material Prices the could be set to 125 like Phil items are.

The amount of Tome items needed are kinda iffy because of a weekly cap. So I could understand a concern with the fact that getting a gear drop that is complete isn't the same as getting a drop and then having to make it. But if its BIS then it would be worth the wait.

Nope, Abjurations only drop in FFXI. And they won't do anything like this (we've asked for it a million times already) unless the crafted items are still not as good as endgame drops, even if you have to kill an endgame monster to get them. They don't feel people should be able to buy the best gear in the game.

TL;DR: It's unpossible due to SE's stance on crafted gear.

I like the idea, but can you imagine the rage and QQ that would ensue when people realize they have to spend money on their bis gear?

Or are you inferring that it would be optional drops to go along with gurantee'd chests. Like say, a low chance that the extra coffers in the dungeon drop the abjuration?

Oh god........My recurring nightmares of Byakko are returning.......

Crafting will never be a viable endgame option because it allows players to blackball one and another by setting absurd prices on items that are needed. Look at the begining of the market... there were items that were 5+ million because limited people could make them. So you introduce something that is rare drop... it is just going to be a field day for people to charge insane prices.

People who say crafting isn't viable are looking for the payday.... it will become more viable once vanity slots come around. I have some DoH at 50. I don't buy mats, I collect everything. I make profits on all item usually. I don't make items I know won't sell.

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Originally Posted by Azoryl

Crafting will never be a viable endgame option because it allows players to blackball one and another by setting absurd prices on items that are needed. Look at the begining of the market... there were items that were 5+ million because limited people could make them. So you introduce something that is rare drop... it is just going to be a field day for people to charge insane prices.

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Things were 5 million gil, yes. But the thing you seem to be forgetting is that people bought them. Something doesn't often cost "too much" when people are buying it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

TL;DR: It's unpossible due to SE's stance on crafted gear.

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So what does that have to do with this? Being able to buy BiS from a crafter, and needing to buy a cursed item to use an abjuration you got from a raid are very different things.

Abjurations and cursed items would be an excellent way to help revive the economy.

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Originally Posted by Azoryl

Crafting will never be a viable endgame option because it allows players to blackball one and another by setting absurd prices on items that are needed. Look at the begining of the market... there were items that were 5+ million because limited people could make them. So you introduce something that is rare drop... it is just going to be a field day for people to charge insane prices.

People who say crafting isn't viable are looking for the payday.... it will become more viable once vanity slots come around. I have some DoH at 50. I don't buy mats, I collect everything. I make profits on all item usually. I don't make items I know won't sell.

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So you're basically the casual crafter, this discussion doesn't really have anything to do with you. And I seriously doubt vanity slots are going to really do anything to boost the economy. [Sarcasm] Look at
the thriving furniture economy we have right now. [/Sarcasm]

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Originally Posted by RowanLauron

I like the idea, but can you imagine the rage and QQ that would ensue when people realize they have to spend money on their bis gear?

Or are you inferring that it would be optional drops to go along with gurantee'd chests. Like say, a low chance that the extra coffers in the dungeon drop the abjuration?

Oh god........My recurring nightmares of Byakko are returning.......

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Ok so here is what I'm thinking for the Actual ABJ. We obtain them in the same way we get Allagan, Everything is based on RNG so why not add them to Chest at the end of a boss? There will be a 100% chance to get 2 ABJ's like we get 2 Allagan pieces. So it won't be like getting your kitty pants and nothing drops 95% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Azoryl

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That was in the beginning of the game. We are pass that point, Leveling a craft is so easy it could be done in a day. The Rare Material doesn't have to drop from a dungeon if that makes people feel better. But I would like to see Materials from Gathering Classes and other Materials from Tomes that have a weekly cap.

Not saying that SE has to have ABJ's be the BIS ever single patch. But it would help to have them be BIS every few patches.

So it would be like the relic quest, somehow to say, but maybe without having to beat 4 bosses, or with as many is the same.

The weapon cafted for the relic quest is easy to make, very easy and cheap. So you it would have to be maybe a bit harder to do. Require some type of farm or trial for the crafter in question.

This would be amazing, but then again, it would be greatly inconvenient for the person who is after the resulting item, AKA the raider (or whatever). It would require people to work together (or one to work a lot on his own), I hardly see it implemented. :/

Perhaps for the future relic upgrade quests? Or to implement the future Artifact sets... This would be a great great idea to implement for AF2-3 or whatever. (since AF2 has already been designed and how to get it defined). But for AF3 I think this would be great.

Instead of just simply having one relic quest, have your relic weapon and then relic job set made by crafters? This is excellent. (Keep the competent drops from raids, make the items required to compelte the craft of the set aquirable through hard trials, but somewhere else, maybe solo). And could replace the Myth AF set, leaving myth for either a more genereic set a bit inferior to coil/af gear, with less class restriction.

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

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Abjurations aren't for Weapons its for gear and food. I don't see what the big issue is with people actually having to work to get gear. The end result is still going to be the same a piece of gear. Yes you will to do Endgame Content to get the ABJ's, It wont be but different than Coils. The only thing you will have to put some actual time into getting the piece of gear completed.

This is the problem we have with gear in the games current state. Gear is relevant for about 3 months and then it is replaced by better gear( NOT saying it will be obsolete). Unless SE plans to change Gear progression, Then adding in a set of Abjuration gear here and there is no different then adding in a new set of Allagan /Relic /Crystal Tower gear every other patch.

We have 2 1/2- 3 months for each new patch that is plenty of time to get ABJ's and then get the Cursed gear. Its not like the gear would be impossible to make, There are a lot of high end crafters its easy to level one. SE is already forcing Lockouts on top end gear so it will be no different. You want gear you're waiting to get it. And yes you will still have to deal with RNG just like we do with Allagan/CT gear. The only difference is you wont be able to wear it right then in there, Players will have to work for the Cursed gear.

It's a system from FFXI that nobody really liked. There were people who got abjurations then couldn't afford the cursed piece due to high prices.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

It's a system from FFXI that nobody really liked. There were people who got abjurations then couldn't afford the cured piece due to high prices.

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Wait, wait wait, you're telling me people didn't like a system that required time and effort with less dependency on luck, yet these people are cool with being at the mercy of rng concerning dungeon drops? There's a goddamn reason the myth gear exists in this game, its to fill in the holes that are left open due to randomness of coil drops. Your group may be getting lucky with drops, but mine sure as hell isn't. Caster and healer drops are practically non-existent while our mnk and drg are building offsets.

When are they introducing Dynamis - Gridania?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

It's a system from FFXI that nobody really liked. There were people who got abjurations then couldn't afford the cursed piece due to high prices.

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Say's who? If no one liked it then why was everything in demand? People could afford the NQ versions and some HQ, But like I said things like Cursed Hauby -1 sold for 20mil for many years. Also the reason why Prices were so high, is the fact that you need high level crafters to make the Cursed and most of the items you need hard to obtain materials.

It took me millions and millions of Gil in FFXI to level GSM and I only got to 93. So the big difference in FFXIV is a craft can be leveled in a day. So its not like FFXI. If you go back up and read what I suggested the Materials would be bought with Tomes. The only thing stopping people from getting the gear is RNG and Time. Nothing any different that the current set up we have now.

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Originally Posted by LordSaviour

When are they introducing Dynamis - Gridania?

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Well troll, They will add it when they add Sky, Limbus, Einherjar, Nyzul...... anything else?

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Originally Posted by Artemed

Wait, wait wait, you're telling me people didn't like a system that required time and effort with less dependency on luck, yet these people are cool with being at the mercy of rng concerning dungeon drops? There's a goddamn reason the myth gear exists in this game, its to fill in the holes that are left open due to randomness of coil drops. Your group may be getting lucky with drops, but mine sure as hell isn't. Caster and healer drops are practically non-existent while our mnk and drg are building offsets.

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+10 to this. I hate to be one of those people but it seems like everyone just wants gear handed to them in FFXIV and not have to do a damn thing but login once a week kill a few mobs and log out.

Bump Would like to hear something from a DEV.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Bump Would like to hear something from a DEV.

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I know you would, but it's unlikely they'll reply... Go look at all the class suggestion threads.

Yes it would be better if craft would be important in making the top gears, of course it shouldn't be craft only that give the best gears but craft that needs you to get items in Coil.

I don't understand why they did this in lvl 30-47 dungeons but not in the lvl 50 + ones.

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

I know you would, but it's unlikely they'll reply... Go look at all the class suggestion threads.

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It take's time for them to respond. I just don't want it to get buried to far down. Also Class suggestion are different then adding in content. If they added every suggestion for classes we would be sitting at 30 jobs ^^.

But I really believe that if they added a ABJ type system to the game it would improve a lot of issues. Some Endgame, something useful for Crafting/Gathering, and overall help the economy, All while keeping the content in check with lockouts.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Yes it would be better if craft would be important in making the top gears, of course it shouldn't be craft only that give the best gears but craft that needs you to get items in Coil.

I don't understand why they did this in lvl 30-47 dungeons but not in the lvl 50 + ones.

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See that's why it fits in perfect. You get the ABJ from Endgame so people are still doing that. And it doesn't have to be BIS gear every patch they could alternate with CoB/Crystal Tower gear.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

It take's time for them to respond. I just don't want it to get buried to far down. Also Class suggestion are different then adding in content. If they added every suggestion for classes we would be sitting at 30 jobs ^^.


But I really believe that if they added a ABJ type system to the game it would improve a lot of issues. Some Endgame, something useful for Crafting/Gathering, and overall help the economy, All while keeping the content in check with lockouts.

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Yeah I know, some class suggestions have really good ideas in them that could be taken or adepted, or add miniscule parts from there, we do need mroe classes...

On topic, I think it's a good idea, but It would sorta work just like the relic quest we have, instead it wouldn't be so fail and easy. What I meant about it is they could make it like the "relic" armor set. Sorta like Artifact armor? A class specific set, or maybe dungeon specific but related to one of the themes in the dungeon. Like twintannia themed set for coil 1-5.. etc...

Just a small idea, I love the AF looks and they should be added as more powerful/harder to get sets. As myth farm is kinda lamish, Myth items should be the non-job specific Allagan gear is, and Coil gear should be the job-specific gear that Myth is (work around it like with tokens :P) Imo it works better, plus Allagan set is pretty fugly >:(

The Ajuration system you're suggesting works exacly like a token system, but adding crafters in the middle, making it even better.

edit: As an added note, BiS should remain something that the player chooses according their preferences on stats (sure, go freak out about 1% more dmg, whatever) if the full set was to be the best of the ebst always, it would make gearing choices too dull (more than always always, I mean just make the full set, instead of a nice mix of armor that dont mesh well together and make you look like a clown).

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So what does that have to do with this? Being able to buy BiS from a crafter, and needing to buy a cursed item to use an abjuration you got from a raid are very different things.

Abjurations and cursed items would be an excellent way to help revive the economy.

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No, they're not very different things. You have to craft the cursed item, therefore crafting is involved in making the item. Because of this, SE won't do it. Making crafts with rare items that drop in dungeons would be the same exact thing, and they already don't want to do that. What's the difference between having a rare material drop in a dungeon and having an abjuraiton drop in a dungeon? players can still buy their way through at least part of it, which is what they are against: Being able to get BiS without haivng to be the one who did all the work. (Note: I'm not advocating it, I think crafted stuff should be viable at least some of the time, however at the same time I don't like people suggesting stuff from 11 be copied over, the game borrows enough from XI already.)

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Wait, wait wait, you're telling me people didn't like a system that required time and effort with less dependency on luck,

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Less dependancy on luck? Huh? Abjurations required both 1) the luck of getting the crafted item HQ (which was a lot harder in XI to be fair) and 2) the luck of getting the abjuration you need, which wasn't any more common than a wanted drop from any other boss.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No, they're not very different things. You have to craft the cursed item, therefore crafting is involved in making the item. Because of this, SE won't do it.

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Yes obviously if they add something like that it may be better if the items created and the items that you get in the dungeon are untradable with other players.

And there would still be some items that are needed in the craft that could be buy ( items to gather )

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Also the reason why Prices were so high, is the fact that you need high level crafters to make the Cursed and most of the items you need hard to obtain materials.

It took me millions and millions of Gil in FFXI to level GSM and I only got to 93. So the big difference in FFXIV is a craft can be leveled in a day. So its not like FFXI. If you go back up and read what I suggested the Materials would be bought with Tomes. The only thing stopping people from getting the gear is RNG and Time. Nothing any different that the current set up we have now.

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What is the difference between farming runs for a drop and farming the "millions of gil"? I don't want to grind away mindlessly for gil in whatever fashion whether that is crafting or farming items to sell. Its all the same thing. You even said you would want to use tomes. Thats the exact same thing. Your just farming tomes for something different.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

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Ok so You must have missed the part where I said that ABJ's would be 100% drops, But you would still have to deal with RNG to get the piece your after. It would be no different than going to coils for Allagan gear each turn two pieces are 100% but you have to deal with RNG on which pieces drops. So how would an ABJ system be any different if it worked the same?

As for crafting me and you must be playing two different versions of FFXIV. Cause the one I play Crafting is to damn easy to level and can be done in a day if someone really wanted to, because I've basically done it with one.

Yes it's from FFXI but what game doesn't already copy another game? I believe there is a huge thread about how they want FFXIV to be less like a WOW clone? Never played that game so idk. These days "New Games" don't come up with original stuff They copy it from other games. When they do, other games copy them.

Crafting the Cursed gear wouldn't be difficult you get Some Gathering Materials and then you buy some Material from Tomes that have a weekly Cap find a Crafter and have it crafted or buy it from the MB. What is so hard about that? It will take time to get done.

As for FFXI ABJ's most of them came from HNMs with crappy drop rates that's not what I'm asking to be implemented cause we all know NM/HNMs will probably never be useful in this game.

-> gets ABJ.
-> Guys to MW to buy Cursed Item.
-> almost dies of laughter for the ridiculous prices on offer.
-> levels appropriate Craft to make Item for myself and FC mates.

Where's your Economy now?

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Originally Posted by randomrope

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Because you don't have to Farm Mindlessly for Gil. The only thing you would have to farm is the Tomes beside the actual ABJ drop. And I doubt Gathering materials would cost an arm and a leg. And farming for Tomes that have a weekly cap is a hell of a lot different than farming countless hours for Gil. So you never have to farm for gil ever unless you want to. Guess what there will be people who can get the Cursed gear faster cause they have the Gil to spend but oh well.

The only real Con I see to a system like this is that people have to get over their "It's mine and I want it now" mentality. Did WOW,GW2 or w/e not have gear that people had to work hard for to obtain? We are so damn lucky in this game that every thing is handed to use on a Platinum Platter. To get gear all we have to do is login and complete a few task.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Because you don't have to Farm Mindlessly for Gil. The only thing you would have to farm is the Tomes beside the actual ABJ drop. And I doubt Gathering materials would cost an arm and a leg. And farming for Tomes that have a weekly cap is a hell of a lot different than farming countless hours for Gil. So you never have to farm for gil ever unless you want to. Guess what there will be people who can get the Cursed gear faster cause they have the Gil to spend but oh well.

The only real Con I see to a system like this is that people have to get over their "It's mine and I want it now" mentality. Did WOW,GW2 or w/e not have gear that people had to work hard for to obtain? We are so damn lucky in this game that every thing is handed to use on a Platinum Platter. To get gear all we have to do is login and complete a few task.

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Nooooooooooo! no game comparisons! It only bring rage :( This is game is no harder than any of those others regardless.

On topic, I still believe a finely tuned token system (note: NOT the same than currency) for end game gear works well, not to compare with other games, but there are those that use token systems for gear drops (atleast set pieces) and go around just find >_> -rolls eyes,I DID NOT DO THAT!-

Also, Any system can bring issues as there will always be people discontent, but, point falls whether or not those cons are acceptable or not on the overall context.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Because it was oh so fun rolling against two thirds of my raid for my set pieces.

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Tsk tsk, same chances of winning, and more chances for someone else to get it as well.

Slightly less chance to get the same repetitive drop without anyone really needing it first.

It's the same difference if X boss drops has between it's loot table 9 items, one for each job, or 3, that each serves 3 different jobs alike.

I think more would still likely prefer that one item that serves 3 classes to drop 5 times in a row, than that DRG piece of gear drop 3 times in a row when you only have one dragoon.

Ideally, what this proposal really brings to the table is more integration of the crafting jobs, however, it does seem like it is not the direction SE wants the game to take, where crafters play a core or very raiding raiding related part in this game.

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Nooooooooooo! no game comparisons! It only bring rage :( This is game is no harder than any of those others regardless.

On topic, I still believe a finely tuned token system (note: NOT the same than currency) for end game gear works well, not to compare with other games, but there are those that use token systems for gear drops (atleast set pieces) and go around just find >_> -rolls eyes,I DID NOT DO THAT!-

Also, Any system can bring issues as there will always be people discontent, but, point falls whether or not those cons are acceptable or not on the overall context.

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Because it was oh so fun rolling against two thirds of my raid for my set pieces.

One of the primary reasons for abj gear is not even an issue in this game. Abj gear was introduced to FFXI partly due to the fact that resale of equipment was seriously harming the crafting industry. Sure, one crafter might make and sell a Bone Subligar +1, but the buyer would just resell it once they were through with it. There'd be a couple thousand Bone Subligart in circulation on a given server, and yet more and more Bonecrafters were leveling each year. Abj gear, on the other hand, was both crafted AND non-resellable, a first for that game - there would be a market for crafting new pieces for as long as the piece was useful equipment.

Resale is not an issue in this game. ALL gear becomes unsellable once you've used it. There's little difference between running a dungeon to get an abjuration and running the dungeon to get a rare crafting item. Especially since crafting is so easy that you can probably just level the craft and craft it yourself, once you have the rare item. :P

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

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In every MMO ever, there are wasted drops. Why is it even a problem?

Some of the Crafters around here want the game to revolve around them, forcing those of us with no interest in crafting to buy their grossly overpriced items in order to progress.

Want the Markets to pick up? FIrst, ask yourself why in the hell a Ring(sub lvl20) that costs me 20 gil to make is sitting pretty in the Market Wards for between 1000 - 2000 Gil.

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Ideally, what this proposal really brings to the table is more integration of the crafting jobs, however, it does seem like it is not the direction SE wants the game to take, where crafters play a core or very raiding raiding related part in this game.

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You would still have to "Raid" to get the ABJ's.

This is not directed at you. I see a lot of people crying on these forums about this game and how they don't like this or that and it should be changed. I would have to say less than 5% of them try to give a suggestion to the problem they are upset about. I just think people should just try to give suggestions to help fix problems instead of Crying and getting nothing done. What people suggest doesn't have to be the best idea to everyone, It just has to get the attention of a few (The DEVs). I see a lot of good ideas pop up and they get all the attention but none from the right people. Then I see Dafuq did they just ask for get done.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

In every MMO ever, there are wasted drops. Why is it even a problem?

Some of the Crafters around here want the game to revolve around them, forcing those of us with no interest in crafting to buy their grossly overpriced items in order to progress.

Want the Markets to pick up? FIrst, ask yourself why in the hell a Ring(sub lvl20) that costs me 20 gil to make is sitting pretty in the Market Wards for between 1000 - 2000 Gil.

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Because like all games you have players who would rather spend the extra gil to get it now vs. them taking 5-10mins to get it done.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Nope, Abjurations only drop in FFXI. And they won't do anything like this (we've asked for it a million times already) unless the crafted items are still not as good as endgame drops, even if you have to kill an endgame monster to get them. They don't feel people should be able to buy the best gear in the game.

TL;DR: It's unpossible due to SE's stance on crafted gear.

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It's funny cause you can already "buy" the best gears with tokens already.

Hopefully not, to spite you.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

It's funny cause you can already "buy" the best gears with tokens already.

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+100 to this.