Duty Roulette (High Level) Abandons

I don't know if it's just today or if I just had a few good runs previously, but today I must have seen at least 5 or 6 tanks drop out of the party at the first wipe which usually were caused by people who haven't run before. People who most of the time wouldn't even mention it was their first run.

Is this just common behavior? Or was I just having bad luck today? I eventually got a HM Haukke group with a new tank who actually mentioned that and people who weren't quit happy. We had a little trouble on the first(killing skeletons in a pile) and last bosses(mainly my fails) but got the dungeon knocked out in 60 minutes. We only had one wipe on Ash oddly.

I guess I'm just wondering if this is viewed as some utilitarian equation like: "Certainly I'll have a sub 30 minute speed run after this so I might as well eat the lockout" or is it just people just don't want to deal with having to communicate with people or figure out who is doing what wrong?

There are always a few asshats who only run with experienced people, but then whats the point of them using DF? If you're using DF you should understand the pts are random and not everyone is an expert. I have been lucky enough to be with good pts since 2.1 but I have heard of those who drop out due to new people still.

New dungeons r dd and healer skill check. It's quickly showing how lacking in skill of these class. I time though it will get better. Almost all the new dungeons are designed in a way that u either get it or u don't and requires tons of practice. Some tanks just don't have the time as it will take him more than 30 min to finish the run and still has a big chance to fail. A good thank can tell whether a dd and a heal is experienced or not. Even more so able to tell 8 a party can pass certain things or not within a few attempts.

Point of them using DF is for roulette :)

I think its less that it wont be fast enough for them (they'd join premade speedruns if they cared about speed/efficiency, which is still MUCH faster myth than roulette) and more about not wanting to deal with the pain of enduring the party, either because the randoms they were paired up with are annoying and/or they're bad players, but either way it makes the dungeon an unpleasant (sometimes grueling) experience that may not be worth an extra 40 myth depending on who you get paired up with. Sometimes when I do DF, I get paired with great people, who I wish were on my server so I could play with again. Other times, I get paired up with people who you couldn't convince me to stay even if the reward was 1000 myth for that one run.

However, the whole point of roulette, the reason you get an extra 40 myth, is for enduring the pain of running with DF randoms, instead of just running with friends or a party finder premade.

I do think new players should always say at the start if they're new, just so those who aren't new can explain mechanics, rather than staying silent and wiping the party out of ignorance and pride - parties will find out you're new when you don't know what to do anyway, so at least ask them to explain the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by nitram

New dungeons r dd and healer skill check. It's quickly showing how lacking in skill of these class. I time though it will get better. Almost all the new dungeons are designed in a way that u either get it or u don't and requires tons of practice. Some tanks just don't have the time as it will take him more than 30 min to finish the run and still has a big chance to fail. A good thank can tell whether a dd and a heal is experienced or not. Even more so able to tell 8 a party can pass certain things or not within a few attempts.

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Look I don't what to tell you, if you can't quickly explain things before and during fights and get the dungeon done, you're failing the MMO. Communication is part of these games and tanking especially is a leadership role. Further I'm not just talking about tanks, I had a healer quit on a new tank (who didn't mention it) and had a new tank (who didn't mention it)quit because we had a little trouble with a boss. Also a lot of these guys had pretty bad awareness of positioning, for example not moving the first boss in Copperbell out of the fire quickly enough. There seems to be a sort of quiet fear of admitting you might not know how to do something combined with a denial of the obvious benefits of quick concise fight explanations.

If he doesn't have thirty minutes to waste he just locked himself out of queue for thirty minutes. Further, who logs on to an MMO with exactly thirty minutes to spare? I find it pretty hard to believe that people are out there playing a game like this in 30 minute nuggets. I think this is an issue of inflated standards, I've heard "That boss was up way too long" on multiple attempts and whenever I ask for some qualification I'm met with silence. We wiped so the boss must have been up too long, you're not in full Allagan with a +1 Relic so the boss must have been up too long, it's just silly. Of course when people throw that out we have no issues with the later DPS check bosses in the instance.

I mean you literally said "either you go into a dungeon having read a guide and one shot everything or you need tons of practice", first of all that's simply not true. A lot of tanks in this game pull without a second's notice, fail to ask if people know the fight or check that they're ready. Guides very often miss out on important aspects of a fight. If you can spend a minute of explanation to stop a wipe, then why not? What is the adversity to that? Also, try to remember I'm talking about people who quit immediately on the first little bit of trouble, one wipe is really not enough to declare the party "bad".

I think you're missing out on a highly rewarding aspect of MMOs here frankly. I bet I could take a good number of these unskilled groups and get them through in under 60 minutes by simply explaining things and not being a quitter. It's sort of silly to just sit going through party after party after party simply to avoid what is in my opinion one of the most enjoyable and challenging aspects of MMOs.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

I think its less that it wont be fast enough for them (they'd join premade speedruns if they cared about speed/efficiency, which is still MUCH faster myth than roulette)

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I think this goes back to the core issue. These people learned their rotation, got gear, but still haven't tapped the social aspect of the game. So rather than looking for a group, joining a FC, or trying to get people to run with them, they go ahead and queue up for Duty Roulette, naturally quitting immediately each time success involves typing.

I disagree that the answer is always that all tanks are just lazy elitist jerks as you'd frame it.

You have to take into account that some people join roulette and are willing to tolerate new players, just not rude/argumentative players.

And then there's also the fact that sometimes a party has no chance of success whatsoever. I've had parties in AK, for example, where the DD had below Lv30 pieces of gear (You dont need i90, but at least AF or over Lv40 gear) and were just clueless about how to play. I was patient, explained how to do Demonwall, and attempt after attempt after attempt, they'd get knocked off the edges or not put out enough DPS, until the timer for the dungeon finally ran out. That's a lot of time to put in for nothing but wipe after wipe and trying to teach a party that just doesn't get it, and even if they did just don't have the gear and competence to pull through. You can't expect everyone to be willing to do that and tolerate that though.

When most people get in a hopeless party, or a party with excessively rude/argumentative people, they'd rather just eat a debuff than suffer an un-fun miserable experience. They queue for DF because most people are pleasant and competent, but sometimes you draw the short straw. Random groups are random groups. If you want the most reliable and committed people in the world who will always stay with you and help you through anything, your statement of "People should just get FCs if they want dungeons their way!" applies to yourself as well.

But if you find that all of your parties/tanks are abandoning you, I think instead of ranting and pointing fingers at everyone else, perhaps you should take a look at yourself.

I quit a Duty Roulette (High Level) last night. It was Pharos and it was clear after being beaten by Siren for the 3rd time that it just wasn't going to happen.

Sometimes it just isn't going to happen and you have to cut your losses.

The BEST is when you enter DF Roulette and you get wp.! >:^)

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Originally Posted by Worm

I guess I'm just wondering if this is viewed as some utilitarian equation like: "Certainly I'll have a sub 30 minute speed run after this so I might as well eat the lockout" or is it just people just don't want to deal with having to communicate with people or figure out who is doing what wrong?

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I've only had one instance of this with the Roulette, but it was pretty ridiculous. We get into Wanderer's Palace, and off the bat the PLD asks "Speed run?" Our healer says "No, keep it calm."

The PLD proceeded to disregard this (and when he was told to slow down) and barreled through, died two minutes into the run, proclaimed "You guys suck!" and left.

I don't even bother with the daily HL roulette. The frustration level from the new dungeons just isn't worth it. I just spam CT for my Myths now.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

I disagree that the answer is always that all tanks are just lazy elitist jerks as you'd frame it.

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I tanked for many years in World of Warcraft and specifically didn't in this game because I know how thankless of a job it is. If you got the impression I think all tanks are this way, that wasn't what I meant. However yeah tanks who quit on the first wipe on a fight they refuse to ask if anyone had done previously? Yes those guys are lazy.

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You have to take into account that some people join roulette and are willing to tolerate new players, just not rude/argumentative players.

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Would you mind not projecting? Just because I'm not laying down in this thread doesn't mean I'm argumentative in groups. I am literally talking about runs where people quit on the first wipe without so much as a word. There's absolutely no rudeness or argumentativeness at all.

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And then there's also the fact that sometimes a party has no chance of success whatsoever. I've had parties in AK, for example, where the DD had below Lv30 pieces of gear (You dont need i90, but at least AF or over Lv40 gear) and were just clueless about how to play. I was patient, explained how to do Demonwall, and attempt after attempt after attempt, they'd get knocked off the edges or not put out enough DPS, until the timer for the dungeon finally ran out. That's a lot of time to put in for nothing but wipe after wipe and trying to teach a party that just doesn't get it, and even if they did just don't have the gear and competence to pull through. You can't expect everyone to be willing to do that and tolerate that though.

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Again, just not what I'm talking about. These were all attempts where quits were at the first wipe. One exception where we had maybe three wipes and we waited for a replacement tank who quit after one wipe, neither tank spoke or contributed to the actual completion of the dungeon over that time.

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But if you find that all of your parties/tanks are abandoning you, I think instead of ranting and pointing fingers at everyone else, perhaps you should take a look at yourself.

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Yeah I guess I must be the problem. Certainly it can't be that jerks play MMOs, that's unthinkable. Look I appreciate you trying to play devils advocate but all you did was shift the narrative to things I'm not even talking about and then politely tell me I must be bad. All that does is back up my claims about people having troubles communicating in this game. Maybe that you're so comfortable conflating one wipe with multiple wipes is the problem, everyone has reached some kind of critical level of hyperbole where one wipe might be a million and where a minute of explanation might as well be fifteen.

Practice makes perfect. I don't believe the game is riddle with bad player, we all want to try our best and to succeed given the chance.
I use to sux at Titan HM, now x20+ I do the run eyes closed and when I see player failing to dodge I do not so much as get angry but just heal/raise them up.

Yes it does happen you get really bad player/equipment but still I don't believe rage quit will solve the problem, if you are 30 min into a dungeon why quiet rather see it through it worth the 50 tomes you will receive, instead of quitting and starting an other dungeon later on it's just time wasting.

Last night we struggle in HM hard mode the tank quit when we had 60 min left blaming dps, we had 2 smn. The second tank came and we tried about 7 times and got it, with 10 min to spare. I would rather wait it out and try and try instead of loosing all the progress to start over a new dungeon.

Never had a group that didnt finish a roulette, had to run praetorium without a tank yesterday, if you keep wiping and someone decides to leave be prepared to look at yourself too, wipes dont just happen

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Originally Posted by sheepysheepy

Never had a group that didnt finish a roulette, had to run praetorium without a tank yesterday, if you keep wiping and someone decides to leave be prepared to look at yourself too, wipes dont just happen

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I just spent a whole post restating that I'm talking about people dropping after a single wipe.

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Originally Posted by Worm

I just spent a whole post restating that I'm talking about people dropping after a single wipe.

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I've always hated tanks that do this, or players in general that do it. Wipes happen, they can be caused by any number of things, including the tank or healer losing focus because of something happening irl, lag, disconnections, technical problems (heals not going through when they've been cast, controllers going out), etc. Player incompetence can be the cause of a wipe, but oftentimes it's not the main thing that happens. Last night in an Ultima Weapon attempt, we got wiped because a Dragoon lagged out and my USB drive (I'm using a controller for the PC version) suddenly turned off on me. If it wasn't for that, we most likely would have completed it, and nobody blamed either of us, things happen.

Hell, I had people last night abandon a LOW level roulette. I wanted to get some EXP on my lvl 21 GLD and queued up. Got Copperbell Normal Mode.

I said hello. The SCH said hello. Both DDs (DRG and MNK) ran straight into the exit and bailed without a word.

I was dumbfounded. We got a BRD and a BLM within a few minutes and blew right through the run, but I couldn't imagine someone eating the 30min penalty to avoid a lowbie dungeon.

On a note with this DF roulette is suppose to adjust xp so that when you get a low level dungeon you aren't waisting your time. Well I can do copperbell mines for the 8ths day in a row on df roulette, and make 160k and take about 40min to beat the dungeon. I can df for cutters or sunken temple bea tit in 50min and make 250k. How is that making df roulette worthwhile? on top of that ifrit gives 130k for a 5min fight. None of this matches up also the fact that I'm not 8 levels above where I was when DF roulette first started and I have not gained increased xp un dungeons to compensate for df roulette. I wont even use df roulette anymore because its more time effective for me to leave a low level dungeon and do fates during the cooldown. I don't want to do that its mean to other players so I just wont do df roulette anymore for low level. So why have you created a system where that is really the only choice. Waste my day esp if I have to teach people a low level dungeon or they have bad gear and it takes more then 50min its especially painful and just makes me not want to play the game afterwords. Y'all said there was suppose to be an xp correction based on your lvl but I don't its not even close its actually just like punishing me. I understand you call it roulette but there still should be xp correction that makes it actualy worth using. I also don't understand why the low level category covers every dungeon and their is no in between. If anything those in between dungeons are the hardest yet and could use a df roulette specifically for them, since e the forum is always filled with complaints for them.

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Originally Posted by Darksword

Hell, I had people last night abandon a LOW level roulette. I wanted to get some EXP on my lvl 21 GLD and queued up. Got Copperbell Normal Mode.

I said hello. The SCH said hello. Both DDs (DRG and MNK) ran straight into the exit and bailed without a word.

I was dumbfounded. We got a BRD and a BLM within a few minutes and blew right through the run, but I couldn't imagine someone eating the 30min penalty to avoid a lowbie dungeon.

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Some DPS have started using the Duty Roulette to level, because the Roulette's wait time is actually lower than just queuing for a normal dungeon you want, by at least 10 minutes. The lower level dungeons have been appearing a lot more than the higher level ones also recently, to the point where i had gotten 5 Satasha runs in a row on my Bard. That's probably why they left, they had gotten the dungeon too often and were tired of seeing it.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Some DPS have started using the Duty Roulette to level, because the Roulette's wait time is actually lower than just queuing for a normal dungeon you want, by at least 10 minutes. The lower level dungeons have been appearing a lot more than the higher level ones also recently, to the point where i had gotten 5 Satasha runs in a row on my Bard. That's probably why they left, they had gotten the dungeon too often and were tired of seeing it.

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Seems silly considering you can finish Satasha in about the time it'd take for the penalty to wear off. May as well complete it for the EXP.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

Seems silly considering you can finish Satasha in about the time it'd take for the penalty to wear off. May as well complete it for the EXP.

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That's been my thought process, so I just finish the dungeons after they start. I consider it a matter of 'pride' for me.

some people just are not nice and don't care that someone else waited a long time to que for that dungeon. We cannot get around it.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Some DPS have started using the Duty Roulette to level, because the Roulette's wait time is actually lower than just queuing for a normal dungeon you want, by at least 10 minutes. The lower level dungeons have been appearing a lot more than the higher level ones also recently, to the point where i had gotten 5 Satasha runs in a row on my Bard. That's probably why they left, they had gotten the dungeon too often and were tired of seeing it.

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Also possible they simply chose the wrong roulette/dungeon. Help someone with Sastasha, or do the low level roulette, then forget to uncheck it before hitting the queue button for what they actually meant to do. If they're not interested in XP, there's nothing in it for them to stick around.

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Originally Posted by Bixby

Also possible they simply chose the wrong roulette/dungeon. Help someone with Sastasha, or do the low level roulette, then forget to uncheck it before hitting the queue button for what they actually meant to do. If they're not interested in XP, there's nothing in it for them to stick around.

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This is an optimistic point of view at least. I can understand it but I feel if it's the person's mistake they'd at least apologize. I accidentally joined a party finder group for Chimera instead of Hydra. Apologized, tried a few pulls with them but when a healer had to leave I went to the Hydra group as well. I'm not totally preaching some selfless Christ-like way of playing MMOs just maybe a little more kindness.

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Originally Posted by Worm

This is an optimistic point of view at least.

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It's just that I queue for the wrong thing kind of a lot. >.>

But on the topic in general... For me, optimism and sympathy are the way to go. I ain't perfect and it doesn't always work. But I'm a lot happier giving people the benefit of the doubt than not. I can't control what other people do, so I can't stop them from doing frustrating things. But I can choose how I react, and reacting with sympathy gives much better results than the alternatives.

Another perspective on it, equally true, is that I don't like giving other people the power to make me cranky. Especially strangers. Being cranky sucks. And crankiness begets crankiness, and we need less of that. Nobody gets to put me in that state unless I let them.

This sounds super high and mighty, and I keep editing to try and make it less so. But it's not working. So here's another disclaimer: this is the theory, and it works when I actually put it in practice, but that isn't always, because, again, not perfect.

I think a lot of people are not using it for the fun of getting a random chance - as was intended. They simply want the daily bonuses, and still intend to sr them. People will drop WP or AK if they get them because they give less myth. If you drop because you don't get the dungeon you want, you aren't truly playing duty roulette. What SE could do to fix this, is if you leave a DR instance before clearing it, you have lost the bonus for the day. This would only happen if you click "leave". Not if you dc or are vote kicked.

If they remove the dungeon timer I would stay and try to finish it. but sometimes you ran out of time and waste more than the 15min lock.

Sometimes it's just better to cut your losses. I'd rather eat a 30 min penalty than go wipe to the first boss of copperbell hard for the 6th time in a row, despite explaining numerous times what to do.

As a tank, i can tell you, that I haven't had the problem with leavers yet (nor have I left a DR group yet).

In fact, I always enter the dungeon, and tell people "Nice to meet you! Please forgive me, this is my first time running this dungeon, but I have read some guides." even though it is not. I do this so other people who may be new are brave enough to speak up. I pretend to not know the boss fights if other people are in fact new to the dungeon so we can talk about strat. So far, no one has left the groups yet (which I'm glad) and almost everyone stayed after the final boss to say some type of farewell to each other which makes these dungeon runs a very social and fun adventure instead of a tedious chore.

Truth be told, eventually everyone will run into a dungeon that is new to them, or someone else in the party. Its not anyone's fault. When you run Duty Finder (instead of making your own pre-made group), you run that risk.

I'm a tank and this is why i que into the roulette as a dps, from what I've seen most dps in this game just suck, as a dps i can ensure the group kills the boss fast and i pull the adds to myself and kill them fast so they don't trouble the tank causing him to take more damage like in pharos and in pharos you need good dps to beat it. The amount of times you gotta keep telling the dps to use the limit in this game it's like it doesn't exist.

I've left a few groups myself, just because I do not have the energy to wipe 8 times per boss. I always ask has everyone done this before and if I need to explain the fights, which is something I don't mind doing, then either everyone assures "Yes yes, done this many times before" or they don't say a god-damn thing. As a healer it's super frustrating to run instances with people who do not speak a single word. You have no whether they just don't understand English or are they just too bad at the game to grasp the fights within few wipes. It's seriously depressing to see 20 minutes left on the clock when the first boss in Copperbell Hard dies. I just don't have the time and energy to do that. I think they should make it so that you can't use the roulette to enter a new dungeon that you haven't been to before.

People keep on bringing up wiping multiple times, I guess it's good to see no one directly defending quitting on the first wipe. Even though I can see the implied thought of "If we wiped this bad we'll never finish it"

Since all those awful groups I had on Christmas Day my groups have been pretty good so far. Had one guy drop because he had to leave, and of course being in a hurry he caused a few wipes. Mostly everything else has been going fine.

It's very simple. Because new and hard mode dungeon have a very high chance to fail/time out, wasting time and get nothing in return with repair bill.

They'd rather wait for 30m for their leave penalty.

Yes, thanks, I know how motivated self interest works. My main point is viewing dungeon runs as a purely utilitarian equation really is just an oversight and it not only makes worse players but it skips over a very rewarding aspect of these games. It's amazing how many people flatly say "Well this isn't in my interest and if it's not my interest why would I do it?". I don't get how people can so plainly make such a mercenary statement, I hope they don't apply this thinking to real life.

I mean I'm not sure whether you're endorsing it or just trying to explain it to me. I just don't think it's a very good reason. Sorry if I came off snappy, but I've seen a few times on this board "Of course they're doing this, they've got no incentive otherwise" it's just kind of annoying to hear it repeated so much as if it justifies bad behavior, since the aren't enough treats leading everyone to good behavior it's only natural they'll drop dungeons when they don't see ilvls they deem acceptable for the content.