Honestly what is the harm? Party re-invite

OP deleted because it's old news.

They do need to fix it for DCs no doubt, other than that I don't have a problem with it.

They just don't want the FF XI shit all over again constantly swapping people out, X person dies you just swap someone else in guess SE did not like that.

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

I don't remember that being a huge issue in ffxi other than people trying to beat Absolute Virtue. And even then. it didn't work.

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It wasn't but i have seen a LS win cause they rotated 6 different tanks on Khimera, they would have lost if not for the tank also people abusing the hate reset stuff by logging out then back in.

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Originally Posted by Firon

They just don't want the FF XI shit all over again constantly swapping people out, X person dies you just swap someone else in guess SE did not like that.

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And they couldn't come up with something better? like perhaps the game memorizes who was part of the party that initiated the battle and allows that group for re-invites only.

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

To me, that is ingenuity and they should be rewarded for their hard work. They didn't cheat. They worked around the system.

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And SE fixed that "Work around" So people might actually have to use that ingenuity within the one party format. I'm sorry but being switched into a party for a SATA WS and then booted out was lame.

What you may call ingenuity, SE may very well call exploit. And really, SE's opinion is the only one that matters in cases like that. Their game, their call.

thats fixed having isntances zone with a max of X number of ppl in.

U cant zone while a battle is already happening.

To avoid death ppl to log off and another 1 take his place.

Bcnms 4 example

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

Swapping party members in ffxi was a result of cooperation between players and ingenuity which is what SE says they are trying to promote in ffxiv.

It's not exploiting the system if you swap party members, it's working around the system to attain a common goal.

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^ i totally second this.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

thats fixed having isntances zone with a max of X number of ppl in.

U cant zone while a battle is already happening.

To avoid death ppl to log off and another 1 take his place.

Bcnms 4 example

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BCNM's are a terrible example because you were ejected if you disconected. I'm also a strong supporter of Open world NM's having everything instanced makes for a very barren world outside of those instances. While I'm not oposed to them all being this way I still want to see open world dungeons and "Raid areas" I want to be able to walk into any cave I want by myself without the game shouting at me that I don't have enough members to enter.

You can't rejoin your party after a DC for multiple reasons.

-You could "Hire" merc groups to do a fight for you and join last minute to just get the loot.
-Gaining SP when you yourself did not fight "I imagine it would be a massive pain to somehow split the SP gain into a new formula "Solution could be you get 0 credit for the fight, but that may have to extend to the entire party...loot included."
-Swapping pt members "Lame to the max, NM's will be designed around not needing to swap party members"
-Leaving party to reset your hate via login/out "There is no way for the server to track your characters enmity after it logs"

I think the last one would be the largest issue of all.

people are scared of what may happen so they took the most severe actions to stop it while punishing people that crash on this badly optimized game. as many stated what is the harm of it memorizing who was in the battle to begin with and if they crash on a game that loves to crash then they should be allowed back in the battle. i haven't heard one person say they wanted to be able to rotate new people in. it is because someone is afraid someone will go and logout to reset hate so their fear over what may happen actually hurts more people than it helps. if you always try to make a game based on your fear you will never make an enjoyable game.

It could be just like every other time you start attacking a mob that's not at full health: you get full loot, but only a percentage of SP. This idea of jumping in at the last minute to get loot is pointless. There's already a way to do that: market wards.

These complaints will dry up when they adress server issues that cause the disconects so fequently. A much more realistic goal than recoding the party system.

But what if the world ended because you joined the party half way through? What then, huh? huh? huh?

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

I wish that were true. My problem is my internet service provider. I have unrealiable service that cuts out for a minute or two at a time multiple times a day.

This unreliable service and the inability to re-join my party was the reason behind my original post.

Why is Square Enix punishing me because I live in an economically struggling area that doesn't have perfect internet service.

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While I can sympathise with you, I just don't see how it could be implemented without exploitable mechanics ala XI just for the sake of people with unstable connections.

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Originally Posted by Mack

And they couldn't come up with something better? like perhaps the game memorizes who was part of the party that initiated the battle and allows that group for re-invites only.

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Yes, I was going to say the same. Rather than kicking someone from a party when they d/c, keep their position reserved then reinstate them to the party when they log back in.

I think we should be able to leave a party when they're engaged in combat though. I've joined my LS for NMs before, at an even lower level than I am now. I died instantly and didn't have my HP set to the nearest aetherite and ended up on the other side of the world and hadn't been much help anyway. But I couldn't leave the party to do something else because we were engaged in combat, I couldn't even change job to do some crafting because I was engaged in combat, despite the combat being in a completely different zone.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

While I can sympathise with you, I just don't see how it could be implemented without exploitable mechanics ala XI just for the sake of people with unstable connections.

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it's very simple. if they were part of the party that originally engaged the mob they should be able to rejoin if they return within a certain time limit. hell they could even make it to where you can't log out while the party is engaged in combat(i think it's already there). if they force disconnect during the fight to avoid hate their char will not disappear for a few minutes anyways so they would die regardless so what's the point of trying that method.

simple solutions instead of using fear. you solve the problem without punishing your players.

Anything will die if you throw enough corpses at it eventually.

It takes skill to go at it with a set number of players, as then, every single death counts.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Anything will die if you throw enough corpses at it eventually.

It takes skill to go at it with a set number of players, as then, every single death counts.

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what topic have you been reading? you post as though people are talking about wanting to exchange new players for ones in the party to keep them healthy when in fact that is not what the topic is about at all.

you're right it takes skill to do something with a set number of players which is why it is bad to start a notorious monster with 5 and one disconnects and it drops you to 4 and you can't get that player that was in the fight originally back into it. we said nothing about anyone dying we stated if someone crashes when they come back they should be able to be invited back into the party not replace them with someone different.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Anything will die if you throw enough corpses at it eventually.

It takes skill to go at it with a set number of players, as then, every single death counts.

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What does that have to do with anything here? Does not allowing you to re-invite and being stuck with players some how prevent death, cuse crap i did not know that. Not losing SP and being able to instant revive with no loss to MP is not exactly making "a death" seem like a bad thing. I can revive someone within 3.749 seconds when they die and then they wait 3 mins (not xi's 5) and they jump back in without any loss. So dying means nothing to this entire conversation.

Wow wasn't expecting such an aggressive response to such a simple comment. Relax guys, I was just saying thats how SE see it, yes DC's are a pain, and they said they are working on a system to allow for this, but they don't want people rotating party members, which I can understand their meaning for.

No need to get so angry.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

if they force disconnect during the fight to avoid hate their char will not disappear for a few minutes anyways so they would die regardless so what's the point of trying that method.

simple solutions instead of using fear. you solve the problem without punishing your players.

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Unless they somehow forced you to be unable to leave your party while in combat as well, thats the only solution I can come up with to allow "Free joining" of party members. Because then there would be no abillity to switch out members while still allowing members to join in.

Of course all SP and should be lost for said joining character in that fight.

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I think we should be able to leave a party when they're engaged in combat though.

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This game leaves many things to be desired, but this one is the only thing that actually makes me want to throw my keyboard through my tv, because there is absolutely zero reason for it. Not being able to invite while engaged, I can understand. But this? C'mon....such an easy fix too.

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Originally Posted by Koronos

This game leaves many things to be desired, but this one is the only thing that actually makes me want to throw my keyboard through my tv, because there is absolutely zero reason for it. Not being able to invite while engaged, I can understand. But this? C'mon....such an easy fix too.

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they don't want to work on easy fixes. yoshi has not been head of a game of this size so he would rather take major sections of the game and destroy it and make it completely different before adding content and doing simple fixes because then he could not claim this is his game. he would be the guy that fixed the mess, but his ego is making him want to destroy the game and rebuild it from ground up and forgot that games are meant to have fun in them and at this point there is none.

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

Honestly, what is the harm in allowing a party to invite people while the party is engaged in battle? What irrevocable harm would come to the universe if after disconnecting, I was allowed to rejoin my party on an NM hunt? It was fine in ffxi why is it taboo in ffxiv?

I just don't get it. I've seen all of SE's responses. "we'll look into it." "That sounds interesting." "yeah yeah yeah whatever"

Us poor people with terrible internet connections can never finish an NM fight because SE will not allow us to be re-invited to parties that are in battle.

Please change this.

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Lol, well they didn't say they would look into it, they said to get stuffed. They don't want to change the programming because if everything was going perfectly according to plan there would be no need to invite during battle. Of course, since we live in a world where everything is sorted out before engaging in battle we can see that this is completely appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

Those exploitable mechanics made for 8 years of final fantasy 11 success. You can't argue with success.

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Being able to switch party members did not make FFXI a sucessfull game. You seem more adamant of this point than you do being disconected.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Wow wasn't expecting such an aggressive response to such a simple comment. Relax guys, I was just saying thats how SE see it, yes DC's are a pain, and they said they are working on a system to allow for this, but they don't want people rotating party members, which I can understand their meaning for.

No need to get so angry.

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I'm so happy your comment was greeted with an aggressive response. You see, when people make a plea to have their concern heard and someone posts to support the status quo that tends to piss a lot of people off. I'm sure everyone had to work to restrain themselves even further in what they posted in response to you.

On another note, the dev team needs to come up with a way to identify DCs, and from there, give up on penalizing people who on-purposely DC. The many shouldn't be sacrificed to punish the few.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I'm so happy your comment was greeted with an aggressive response. You see, when people make a plea to have their concern heard and someone posts to support the status quo that tends to piss a lot of people off. I'm sure everyone had to work to restrain themselves even further in what they posted in response to you.

On another note, the dev team needs to come up with a way to identify DCs, and from there, give up on penalizing people who on-purposely DC. The many shouldn't be sacrificed to punish the few.

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so when people disagree with you its ok to blast them? DCing sucks, but basically if you DC regularly, then your going to have/create problems in an online game. If they can come up with a perfect fix, im for it, but if they sacrifice any abuses for DC im against it. Them giving people the ability to redo leves (mostly because of DCing) basically created leve link abandon 1 zone ul dah play for ever. Sometimes the convience of the few does not = better game for all.

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

Honestly, what is the harm in allowing a party to invite people while the party is engaged in battle? What irrevocable harm would come to the universe if after disconnecting, I was allowed to rejoin my party on an NM hunt? It was fine in ffxi why is it taboo in ffxiv?

I just don't get it. I've seen all of SE's responses. "we'll look into it." "That sounds interesting." "yeah yeah yeah whatever"

Us poor people with terrible internet connections can never finish an NM fight because SE will not allow us to be re-invited to parties that are in battle.

Please change this.

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Solves this Problem:

XI HNM Ls has 4 teams of players

4 people holding Sandworm (4 rdm/nin can hold a raged worm indefinatly)
6 People holding (Very Very slow dmg on tiamat)
While there is a party killing fafnir
And another group kiting King Behemoth while fafnir is killed.

Did this in my ls on ffxi many times when camping multiple nms.

Not letting people invite outside prevents that from happening as well as a people perpetually swapping people.

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Originally Posted by Dynamis

Us poor people with terrible internet connections can never finish an NM fight because SE will not allow us to be re-invited to parties that are in battle.

Please change this.

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Implementing this would help:


link:http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ection-Lost%29

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Implementing this would help:


link:http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ection-Lost%29

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very nice idea and that would solve this issue without having to worry bout the cowards complaining too much.

Allow us to re-party square enix. We have nothing really worthwhile to rotate in players anyway right now

I think a posible solution to getting back into a party after a crash or dc would be the Perma-party route some other mmo's take. You stay in that party until you physical remove your self from it or are kicked out by the leader or the party disbands.

Will agree that leaving a party thats engaged and the lock out of teleporting while your in a totaly different region from party members are fighting need to be Re-evaluated.

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Originally Posted by Physic

so when people disagree with you its ok to blast them? DCing sucks, but basically if you DC regularly, then your going to have/create problems in an online game. If they can come up with a perfect fix, im for it, but if they sacrifice any abuses for DC im against it. Them giving people the ability to redo leves (mostly because of DCing) basically created leve link abandon 1 zone ul dah play for ever. Sometimes the convience of the few does not = better game for all.

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I gotta agree with this. It sucks for people with a bad internet, but I hate exploiting in mmos, and although its not necessary now I could see someone easily swapping out people if we get something difficult.

I too hate the "redo" on failed leves. It makes no sense and has created a system where 80% of the population intentionally fail their leves, which also further creates that horrid grind of doing the same thing over and over since nobody cares to do other leves or camps.

Also people who dont want to exploit can often have trouble finding groups. My ls has been playing less and less due to the state of the game, and I can never find random groups because I dont have their required leves.

If they could somehow make a system where you can re-invite people that dced then I dont see the harm, but inviting new players might make problems.