This game is tons of fun but something keeps striking me. It feels like the mechanics of it almost encourage people to be anti social.
-512 member FCs that can only do 8 person content, why bother with a large FC?
-Coil lockouts that create static situations for that content and can leave odd men/women out
-Cannot create your own alliance for CT, and as a side result, cannot play around with alternative setups with friends for fun
-CT gear lockouts giving no purpose to redoing the content until next locout once you get an item (not to mention wasted gear that no one lots because they don't want it to lock them out)
-FC Housing prices that are a gil sink, and grinding gil is an individual task
-The first 15 levels of the game are basically slower if you try to do them with anyone else
-Its sometimes easier to get hard things done in DF hoping to get aid from people with better gear then trying to progress as a group
-Flipside Duty Finder pseudo anonymity and lack of reliance on local server assistance encourages trollish behavior
-Duty Roulette is only accessible if you go solo, with a myth bonus that actually encourages you to do so
I'm lucky in that I came over with a group of friends from XI so we do a lot of things together, but I keep thinking about these mechanics and how they actually splinter a lot of people rather than encourage them to work together.
Anti-Social MMO?
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12-19-2013, 03:44 AMBeeragaAnti-Social MMO?
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12-19-2013, 03:51 AMXatsh
ATM the game rewards you for playing solo honestly.
IT is absurd but you are punished if you are in a guild in XIV. IT is completly backwards. IT will continue to happen if devs continue to focus on lowman and duty finder for all endgame.
Guild atm are 100% pointless in XIV in everyway. You are actully hurting your progression being in 1 instead of a just a 8man static group.
As the OP my guild came over from XI and many of us been together for nearly a decade. The game design is a cancer though, our new member turn over is astronomical atm because everyone just wants to static/pug everything and we sorta force some guild interaction. This game feel much more like a Steam Game or call of duty where you just log in and play with friends instead of a being a game focused on community and guilds. I for one refuse to give up a guild... I am losing faith, but hopefull SE wakes up fast and realizes how horrible the current path of the game is and what will happen when guilds finally just say the hell with this and jump ship to a more hospitable environment. -
12-19-2013, 03:51 AMFerth
I've been saying this for awhile now.
Add to the list quests that can't be done in groups as well as other quests that are just really poorly optimized for people playing in a group.
If you don't already have a social group to play with, randomly coming across one is quite the challenge.
Furthermore, other than the fact that boss fights in CT actually have three groups of 8... everything is still balanced around 3 entirely autonomous groups of 8. The way loot works right now you won't ever get the chance to have everyone in your alliance choosing between three different drops per boss, you are just stuck with whatever item your specific group gets, and if you don't want it, it goes to the floor, it's an incredibly awkward group dynamic.
This dev team seems to have some glaring blind spots when it comes to understanding MMOs. Not least of which is the MM part. -
12-19-2013, 03:52 AMrocheetbombeQuote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
But.... I like my FC buffs... -
12-19-2013, 03:52 AMAlhanelemNobody has a 512 member FC except one major website community that likes to invade the flavor of the month game (forgot what it was called)and no game has 512 member content. Any FC with more than like 20 members is more like a community, and not expected to all do the same thing at the same time.Quote:
-512 member FCs that can only do 8 person content, why bother with a large FC?
If you're concerned about this, then don't run when your friends aren't around.Quote:
-Coil lockouts that create static situations for that content and can leave odd men/women out
Creating your own alliance will be possible in the future.Quote:
-Cannot create your own alliance for CT, and as a side result, cannot play around with alternative setups with friends for fun
If you're playing with friends, why they wouldn't want to help eachother get items is beyond me. What kind of friends would those be anyway?Quote:
-CT gear lockouts giving no purpose to redoing the content until next locout once you get an item (not to mention wasted gear that no one lots because they don't want it to lock them out)
The first few levels of just about every MMO are meant to be done solo, this is nothing newQuote:
The first 15 levels of the game are basically slower if you try to do them with anyone else
It's also often harder. Titan anyone? Then there's Coil which you MUST form parties with friends locally to play.Quote:
-Its sometimes easier to get hard things done in DF hoping to get aid from people with better gear then trying to progress as a group
Vote kick and player commendations address this issueQuote:
-Flipside Duty Finder pseudo anonymity and lack of reliance on local server assistance encourages trollish behavior
The main purpose of duty roulette is to create an extra incentive to play as needed roles and get more players into lower tier dungeons to help newer players. 3/4 of the roulettes are mainly for dungeons which are more of interest to people playing through things the first time.Quote:
-Duty Roulette is only accessible if you go solo, with a myth bonus that actually encourages you to do so
--response to reply due to post limit ---
well, your point contradicts itself then. You appeared to complain that there is no content for 512 member FCs despite the fact that virtually no FC has that many people. Why make content nobody can play? If you WANT people to have 512 member companies, well, good luck with that, but I don't think large groups should be expected to all be doing the same thing at the same time- so I don't see any problem here nor can I really tell what your point is. Nothing about this is "anti social."Quote:
That's uh, kind of my point?
Find 6 more friends or alternate or use alts.Quote:
And what do I do when I have 10 friends and 8 person content that locks those 8 people out?
I don't see the problem? If you are working with friends, then how is the game being antisocial? And your motivation to help others should be "because it helps others." What better motivation is there?Quote:
Don't put words in my mouth. I do have friends, we do work together. The point is if I didn't I would have no real reason to make friends. And since I already have my friends, I have no real motivation to help random Joe.
These are people who either bought wins and don't know how to play, or got carried. You can get much better gear than AF without any lockouts, there's no excuse. But I think you're missing the point: Duty finder isn't always the best solution and thus players are still encouraged to talk to others and group up in order to play more difficult content. You're not really helping your case with your quote here.Quote:
Look at all the people with relic weapons that are still in AF gear. Now try to do titan with an entire party of 8 people in AF gear.
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12-19-2013, 03:54 AMXatshIF buffs are the only reason to join a guild in XIV... that explains the issue with the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by rocheetbombe
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12-19-2013, 03:56 AMrocheetbombeWas just saying, because you said "in every way".Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
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12-19-2013, 03:58 AMOrma
Running duty finder is, most of the time, a poop show for the harder content. The reliability and having proper communication with members makes things much smoother in terms of running endgame content. So I don't agree. Having a good FC is recommended.
In terms of leveling? 1-50 takes very little time, so yes solo would be somewhat faster but otherwise, I'd 100% go with FC runs rather than duty finder runs when I hit 50. -
12-19-2013, 04:02 AMBeeragaThat's uh, kind of my point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
And what do I do when I have 10 friends and 8 person content that locks those 8 people out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Don't put words in my mouth. I do have friends, we do work together. The point is if I didn't I would have no real reason to make friends. And since I already have my friends, I have no real motivation to help random Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I leveled multiple jobs with friends 1-75 in XI and it was fun at every level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Look at all the people with relic weapons that are still in AF gear. Now try to do titan with an entire party of 8 people in AF gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Most people grind out level 50 dungeons at end game for tomes, this gives them a real incentive to do so alone. Just last night when thinking about something to do with one other person, it was really strange when the thought crossed my mind "Hey, maybe we should split up and duty roulette alone so we double our myth return." That's just strange.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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12-19-2013, 04:13 AMGilthas
I think its funny how you distorted several of your examples to push your argument.
1. You're complaining how getting your item means that you have no reason to do CT again. How about redoing CT to help your friends?
2. You'd think that because FC housing is a gil sink that requires a lot of gil that this would promote some unity in an FC with the members having a common goal to obtain. Not to mention, not all means of making gil are an individual task, the most blaringly obvious example would be making spirit-bonding parties.
3. Its hilarious how you complain that its easier to complete content with a higher geared character and not your own group. This has ZERO to do with the game not promoting socialization.
4. Apparently, for you socializing means "doing stuff with my own group and the less I interact with strangers the better!"
Maybe in the future they'll release content for big groups, but I can't really say I miss them. The more people you need to have logged on at a specific time to do stuff more often than not just means more delays because someone is running late.
Really? Because even in FFXI it was a lot more efficient to level 1-10 solo (which the overwhelming majority of FFXI's playerbase did). You could do the 1-10 levels as a group in FFXI, but the same can also be said about FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeraga
Oh I see, so you're a hypocrite then. Because a few minutes ago you were saying this was a problem and now it's a problem because only other people do it, not you. Just get your friends together then and you no longer have a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeraga
And once again your arguments are based on gross exaggerations. In 8-man content, that's 8 people to account for, not just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeraga
I think its hilarious how socializing to you means "Only playing with my group". In the end, it's not the game that's anti-social, it's you, because you don't want to anything with strangers. -
12-19-2013, 04:16 AMBeeragaNever said I wouldn't. But most people are not a benevolent as you assume them to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
Right, and to expand, in this game, you only need to wait for one person to log in, you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
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12-19-2013, 04:28 AMDemeosAnd depressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeraga
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12-19-2013, 04:42 AMmyahele
I keep forgetting that this is am mmorpg sometimes.
I guess its getting better due to fc housing, treasure hunt, pvp, and more...? -
12-19-2013, 04:43 AMIStolzI
If you think your FC is worthless than that's a personal problem. I personally like being able to log in and say "anyone running dungeons?" and putting sr parties together or being able to ask for/ offer help on various parts of relic quest are nice. Even if it's just that one tank or healer that speeds up DF, it's nice. For a Solo DPS waiting on that DF timer sucks.
8 man statics are probably nice but I've gotten a few coil wins without ever really persuing them through my FC.
Yea duty roulettes are solo but theyre once a day and not everyone has all three roles ready to go. -
12-19-2013, 05:14 AMSeig345
If it's solo unless you're friends with the people you wind up in dungeons with,
If it's solo because you might not see the people you wind up in dungeons with again,
If you have no interest in playing with other players if it means no personal item/monetary gain,
If it's unacceptable that your group of friends might have to rotate through different content each week rather than every single one of you being able to access the exact same content at the same time in the same order,
If it's the game's fault for having a path of lesser resistence that you choose over the path involving your friends,
If the behavior of its players is the responsibility of the game (for which even the ESRB doesn't bother to include in its rating system),
Then yeah, FFXIV is absolutely an Anti-Social MMO.
To me, it seems like this issue is looked at backwards. Personally, FFXIV is FFXI but with the ability to play on your own if/when your friends aren't on or not enough of them are on to fill one party. Trollish behavior, and choosing the quick and easy solo path instead of your own friends are both the responsibility of the player, not the game. The most the game can do is attempt to police the first, and the only way to 'fix' the second would be to change its target demographic to a much smaller, niche demographic. -
12-19-2013, 05:22 AMmidnitdragoon
there was a time not too long ago where it was all about adventuring, talking the talk during the journey and in the end getting something worthwhile out of it. if you ask me...this new style of mmo where your rewarded for every action you do is the way of the future.. and its for the best. thank you SE for this new game, i love how its got that wowish feel to it. Thank you for not putting any skill chains or complicated techniques to get through battles, I hate using my mind with others during fights. Most important, thank you for making the game about the gear and not the adventuring spirit of final fantasy we were all so used to in ff11. Thank you... thank you so much for making this game the way it is. It is for the best and clearly paves the way for success in every way.