NM gear

IMO it is very dissappointing that nm gear is in many cases inferior to some alternative gear. Please make them actually usefull instead of mere show off gear.

I agree. It's sad the Templar's set is completely useless. Harlequin isn't bad though. Bucc stuff is all bad except the feet and I guess body for ARC... :/

It's just kind of sad they would waste such cool designs on nothing.

But w/e you know later they will be stuff that look x100 better and actually is good!

What's bad is that some of it is useless and some is good.

Mosshorn Scale Mail is just a novelty item cause Vintage Haub is better. Where Dodore is constantly camped/farmed.

Also they should have split up the spawn timers more... 3 NM's spawn during the day, 1 at night, and 1 day or night depending on weather.

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Originally Posted by Aratharn

What's bad is that some of it is useless and some is good.

Mosshorn Scale Mail is just a novelty item cause Vintage Haub is better. Where Dodore is constantly camped/farmed.

Also they should have split up the spawn timers more... 3 NM's spawn during the day, 1 at night, and 1 day or night depending on weather.

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They should have made them real NMs with 24 spawn times so the items are actually hard to get instead of basically handing them out to everyone on the server.

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Originally Posted by Visch

They should have made them real NMs with 24 spawn times so the items are actually hard to get instead of basically handing them out to everyone on the server.

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Profoundly no. Kings (and that system in general) is the probably the single WORST system in the history of MMOs.

What they should've done is made the gear that you might get from 400 point faction leves better.

Gear should be rare because the content you have to complete to get it is difficult, not because it drops from one mob that that mob spawns once a day (or week). No one should have the ability to prevent others from participating in content or getting the rewards in any significant way.

Edit: Not that 400 point leves are hard, really, but they could always be made harder. :D Competitive spawns are terrible, period. They encourage botting, griefing, and other anti-social behavior as necessary evils to "win".

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Originally Posted by Amas

Profoundly no. Kings (and that system in general) is the probably the single WORST system in the history of MMOs.

What they should've done is made the gear that you might get from 400 point faction leves better.

Gear should be rare because the content you have to complete to get it is difficult, not because it drops from one mob that that mob spawns once a day (or week). No one should have the ability to prevent others from participating in content or getting the rewards in any significant way.

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Guess your LS never claimed nothing in XI. LOL!

Seriously. What is the point in there been NMs at all if the items are just gimmes. There is no accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by Amas

No one should have the ability to prevent others from participating in content or getting the rewards in any significant way.

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It's called competition. It makes the game worth playing.

Nah, my LS was mostly made up of old HNM retirees, and no one wanted to camp since that whole system was messed up.

When something new (e.g. DI) came along, we'd own it for a couple weeks, make a fat pile of gil on it, then do something else once it became a bot/campfest. Why sit around doing nothing for 3 hours for a chance at a Nidhogg pop when we could spent 30 mins 2x a week clearing out Einherjar, and then do an Odin every 3 weeks or so and get them that way?

Competition is what drove most good endgame players to quit... because no amount of skill or participation on their part would yield advancement. If you weren't willing to break the rules (bot), you effectively had no chance, and instead some no-skill noob with a huge ego could afk in Jeuno/Whitegate in his new Adaberk, and still be completely useless.

If you want competition, go play an FPS game. Or try to beat hard content before someone else who isn't as good.

Edit: And there's no reason instanced/non-competitive content has to be gimmies. SE made the 400 point leves too easy and the drops too crappy. The nice thing about instances is much more freedom to script the environment and encounters to make them HARD and require entirely new and different strategies, while any competitive content has very strong limitations placed on it by the open world.

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Originally Posted by Visch

They should have made them real NMs with 24 spawn times so the items are actually hard to get instead of basically handing them out to everyone on the server.

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Lol, would have been fun, but I wouldn't want to welcome the HNM drama between two shells start this early on xD

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Originally Posted by Amas

Competition is what drove most good endgame players to quit.

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They quit because they couldn't get something? Sound more like crybabies than endgame players to me. :/

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Originally Posted by Amas

If you weren't willing to break the rules (bot), you effectively had no chance, and instead some no-skill noob with a huge ego could afk in Jeuno/Whitegate in his new Adaberk, and still be completely useless.

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I didn't have an issue on PS2. You needed commitment to get the good gear, that's what made the accomplishment special.

And if someone had better gear than you that you didn't like. Go merit with them and own them on the parse to prove they're a nub.

or not Visch. MMOs don't need to be E-Peen contests ... it seems that's all you'd like.

It doesn't make you a better player because you claimed a mob that can be zerged to death with a simple strategy (stand on left and right foot).

I'd rather they leave NMs at 1 hour respawns, and add some really tough challenges, hard bosses, and gear to match.
They should add some Leve Nms that cost 600 maybe, and make them more difficult than (current) world NMs.

Just because you botted to get your gear doesn't mean that's the way the games meant to be played, and that formula has been removed from almost all games because it just doesn't work. People like being able to advance, and Solo/Group gear hits a very early wall that you can't really advance past. This is a game, a final fantasy, a genre with age groups ranging from 8+ (usually stopping around 50 though), and a lot of people have jobs, have kids, have a life, and they're still good players. They just can't commit to waking up at 4am because the NM is going to spawn between 4 and 7am.

Instanced content, and quick respawns, with appropriate difficulty and drop rates, is part of the reason WoW became #1. And theres a reason FFXI moved -AWAY- from this content and made everything force pop. The game should be ready for you on your terms, not it's terms.

E-Peens aside.

The massively difficult faction leve monster idea would be the best way to do this I think. Instead of having people use the bots that exist to claim monsters and say they're awesome (see Visch) everyone could have access to the monster without "Competition/PvP" and still be wiped out or have the accomplishment of actually being able to slay the monster, with loot being just the icing on the accomplishment cake.

With these forums a nice little poll would be nice.

1) Do you want HNM's as they were in XI?
2) Do you want to use the systems already in place to defeat difficult monsters?
3) Do you want to see a different system entirely?

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Originally Posted by Visch

They quit because they couldn't get something? Sound more like crybabies than endgame players to me. :/

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They quit because they got bored. Because sitting around for up to 9 hours a day doing practically nothing, for the hope of claiming one weak, easy mob to get disproportionately good drops is a stupid, lame system that encourages watching TV instead of actually playing the game. Worse still for Tiamat and ToAU mobs that were more than 24 hour spawns. Holding parties there were not "committed" just people in college who'd leave a monitor on while doing schoolwork.

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Originally Posted by Visch

I didn't have an issue on PS2. You needed commitment to get the good gear, that's what made the accomplishment special.

And if someone had better gear than you that you didn't like. Go merit with them and own them on the parse to prove they're a nub.

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See, your definition of commitment is just silly.

Commitment is trying to discover strategies to beat new and different content, and continuing to try new strategies despite wiping until you find the radically new and different way to win.

Commitment in FFXI is more synonymous with pain tolerance or masochism, if your end goal was a Dalmy or an Adaberk. The kings were easy to kill, required no strategy, and the only gates to getting your drops were claiming and then drop rates.

I was RDM, NIN, and SAM. No reason to camp kings other than Dalmy (and had the commitment to do Salvage for a Morrigan's robe, since a bit of skill and persistence would pay off there, and no number of complete no-skill noobs could bot it). Crushing your average Adaberk noob in a parse wasn't hard, but didn't prove anything, since being more efficient at mindless grinding doesn't really reflect well on any "skills" FFXI required.

And I gotta say, having an entire group of friends loaded out in Salvage gear was a lot more fun than prancing around in Kings gear. Seeing as how efficiently farming Salvage took a lot more "skill" than claiming and killing Nidhogg.

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Originally Posted by Visch

They should have made them real NMs with 24 spawn times so the items are actually hard to get instead of basically handing them out to everyone on the server.

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You'll never get archaic spawn features like that again. If the main way you enjoy your experience is to prevent others from experiencing anything, support for that kind of fun died with Promathia. We don't need more pointless spawn competition on wutai. We need more challenging fights.

Dodore and buffalo is painful enough as it is with us, moscow, rapture, and pink stepping all over each other. Claiming rights is a sad way to get your elite on.

Oh boy, this is a whole can of worms I had hoped I never saw again.

Having played FFXI at endgame, and having been a member of endgame LS's that did successfully kill popular NM's and HNM's on multiple occasions, I have first-hand experience of so-called "competition".

The fact that there was competition didn't bother me. What bothered me was the fact that it was so dirty. Just because one LS claimed a mob before you meant others had to do their best to lag you out or MPK you (while such a thing was possible). It was bad enough /blockaid had to be put into the game. If your party had a number of members wipe, regardless whether you could regroup and still potentially finish the fight, other LS's would do their best to rip the mob off you.

The second such mobs are placed in this game, these issues will re-occur, and there will be a lot of drama and bad blood. It's no longer about skill/ability at that point, because if you throw enough muppets at a NM, eventually it will still go down (crude analogy, but you know what I mean - probably).

It's because of prior trouble such as this that SE have been asking about instancing fights. I'm not a major fan of instancing, but it does stop irritating intrusion by other players that have few manners and little sense, but a lot of greed and arrogance.

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Originally Posted by Defmetal

or not Visch. MMOs don't need to be E-Peen contests ... it seems that's all you'd like.

It doesn't make you a better player because you claimed a mob that can be zerged to death with a simple strategy (stand on left and right foot).

I'd rather they leave NMs at 1 hour respawns, and add some really tough challenges, hard bosses, and gear to match.
They should add some Leve Nms that cost 600 maybe, and make them more difficult than (current) world NMs.

Just because you botted to get your gear doesn't mean that's the way the games meant to be played, and that formula has been removed from almost all games because it just doesn't work. People like being able to advance, and Solo/Group gear hits a very early wall that you can't really advance past. This is a game, a final fantasy, a genre with age groups ranging from 8+ (usually stopping around 50 though), and a lot of people have jobs, have kids, have a life, and they're still good players. They just can't commit to waking up at 4am because the NM is going to spawn between 4 and 7am.

Instanced content, and quick respawns, with appropriate difficulty and drop rates, is part of the reason WoW became #1. And theres a reason FFXI moved -AWAY- from this content and made everything force pop. The game should be ready for you on your terms, not it's terms.

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Bro if you have fun doing what you wanna do you can do what you wanna do!

Causal player have their rightful place in MMOs.

People who don't have as much time as other should be able to have fun and enjoy the game like everyone else.

The problem is when causal players start telling people who play the game 10 times more than them what to do and what's better.

I loved HNM drama. It was hilarious and made the game challenging. Bring back the 24 hour nms! Hurrr

I would not say WoW had appropriate drop rates, it was pretty much a gimme in that game. Especially during the Wrath of the leach king times.

In my opinion why not do what they did in FFXI. Give HNMS with a 24hour respawn which drop godly items, and give raids which drop the same stuff like einherjar.

Belive it or not there is alot of ppl who like camping. Why not make both sides happy.

Hate to step in, but there was no skill related on FFXI at ground kings. AT ALL. You used bots , you get claim and kill.You dont use bots, you have a slight chance of geting claim and killing.How exactly is this a good system?.

Did it require some kind of skill? Did it made some one superior to another player becouse they could claim after standing for hours to not end?.Not really.Thats not hardcore.Thats people without lives and cheaters.I do not welcome that type of game mechanics.The fights all were a joke, the only competition was who had the faster bot.At that time i was part of the nolife people orz.I hate bots with passion.I still have nightmares of RMT boting Ulikummi back in 2006.God forbid more King Behemoth situations.

The game needs to be harder, but strategicaly harder.Time sinks that require 0 skill needs to go.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Bro if you have fun doing what you wanna do you can do what you wanna do!

Causal player have their rightful place in MMOs.

People who don't have as much time as other should be able to have fun and enjoy the game like everyone else.

The problem is when causal players start telling people who play the game 10 times more than them what to do and what's better.

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See, the funny thing about haijin/"hardcore" players complaining when the casuals ultimately choose the direction of the game, is that the casuals are the vast, vast majority of the subscription base, and keeping them engaged, happy, and continuing to pay is what makes an MMO profitable.

If John Q. Casual knows he can get an Adaberk, but it's just going to take longer to get than the dude who has the ability to play 6-8 hours a day, he's much more likely to keep paying for months/years than if he gets discouraged because he thinks content is out of his reach.

And then when John Q. Casual and the people like him get discouraged and quit, the developer isn't making enough money to justify the costs of continuing to develop content only the hardcore players can enjoy.

So, ideally, you reward more participation (read: higher play times) with faster progression, but don't set the barrier to entry so high that the people who pay the bills go somewhere else.

It was fun playing a ton of FFXI back in college when I had a ton of time, but now I work a salaried job with a work week normally at least 50 hours long, rarely as high as 80, and have to worry about maintaining a house and keeping a wife happy besides that. I get probably 2-4 hours a day (before bed) to play FFXIV, and I'm perfectly happy if the people with 2-3x that amount of free time progress faster than I do. But the simple fact of the matter is that I expect to progress if I'm paying for access to the game, and 2-4 hours a day should be enough time to make reasonable (though not insane) progress through the game. I should be able to consume the content on my terms (which means... can go do things when I'm on, not tailor my schedule around a pop window), and not be denied access to anything by some no-talent clown who explicitly ignores the warning about real life/family/friends when you log in.

Visch, the whole "commitment" argument is rubbish. Having your bot claim your
HNMs is not competition. It's sad. And sitting in one place waiting for hours for
a digital monster to pop out of thin air is even sadder. Wake up. Life is beautiful.

I'd like to see the fight itself being challenging, rather than claiming the NM.

Why not have BOTH open world HNM's and instanced events/HNM's.

FFXI's problem with kings was that they were the ONLY way to obtain certain abjuration gear. It would work well if the gear that drops from the open world HNM's was also available in an instanced event that way if your LS does not want to deal with any form of camping, you still have availability to that same gear.

For any open world HNM's I would hope to do away with the 21-24 hour crap and I'm pretty sure they will never bring that back. The current system is good for regular little NM's.. spawning only during day.. night.. etc. For HNM's I'd like to see more like Tiamat spawn timers... and if there was anyway to make it completely unpredictable so there were no spawn cycles. Can pop any minute between like 24-72 hours or something.

I also would love for more difficult fights. Was so fun when the wyrms were first introduced trying to figure out a strategy to beat them.

Yes to extremely challenging and engauging content. And Yes to rare drop rates. No to random and timed spawn NMs. I'd prefer triggered spawns for OW NMs. Less drama, less standing around doing nothing, less worrying and rise to botting and RMTs. Also drops from NMs, epic-style quests, main story quests, and any endgame events should ALWAYS be better than crafted gear.

commitment should be more effort than time.


its a game not a job.