I had a crazy idea about the drop mechanics in dungeons (specifically CT) and how I would like to see them work. Take my opinion with a grain of salt; it's just an idea.
After the loot drops for each boss (solely in the CT instance) the interface will confirm that a particular person wins the lot (after everyone has either rolled "Need," "Greed," or "Pass.")
However, all loot received for the entire dungeon will not appear in each specific players inventory until the final boss has been completed and the player leaves the instance.
Now, this has it's own set of pro's and con's.
Pro's:
-More players are more likely to remain in the instance and see it through to completion. (You feel more compelled to stay so that others, as well as yourself, get to receive loot at the end, creating a better sense of community.)
-For the Linkshell and FC parties (and perhaps even pre-built server parties,) this helps build a sense of "we need to finish this dungeon so player-x will receive his drop." So less people will actually drop from the party and leave the dungeon.
-Also, each boss drops a single chest on a per-party basis. Therefore, there will be no "loot jealousy" over a drop that goes to a different 8-man party. Actually, unless someone actually says something, the 16 other people outside of your group will not see what is dropped from your chest.
-During the first few months after release, there will be so many people queuing up "Join Party in Progress" that replacing someone that has dropped will not be a problem if the need arises to kick someone or someone can't finish the dungeon and has to leave ASAP. (I can see this maybe becoming a problem after 3-4 months where most people have received what they wanted out of the dungeon and no longer want to queue for it. However, you do still get Tomestones, so even at that point, poeple will still want to be doing it. Will have to wait for the actual release to see what it is like before elaborating further on this point.)
Con's:
-I can still see people who join through the duty finder, getting into a party with someone of the same class, lotting against said person, losing, and then leaving the dungeon just to grief the person who got the drop. However, I feel that should the party still succeed in completing raid after this occurs, it will not be a problem. 1 person missing out of 24 is not much.
-People randomly disconnecting or getting 90k error could prevent a group from finishing the content. However, as of patch 2.1, there will also be a afk-kick timer, a disconnect timer, and a vote-to-kick put into place so this really shouldn't be a problem.
-The only other downside I can think of right now is people not being able to use the new drop they got while still in the dungeon. However, this is just part of the system and will be something to look forward to having once you have successfully completed the raid as a team.
If you think about it, in any regular RPG, you can go into a high-level dungeon and get all kinds of drops. However, if you don't actually clear the dungeon or find a save point before you die (which, as more tier's of content are added to this area, every individual "tier" where you leave and re-enter could be considered as a "Save Point,") you don't get to keep whatever you found on the way. The more I think about this, the more I like it.
Feel free to elaborate, discuss, troll, or derail all you want. Just putting this out there. :p
My idea for Crystal Tower drops.
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12-10-2013, 02:39 PMNeo_GenesisMy idea for Crystal Tower drops.
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12-10-2013, 02:53 PMShioban
Or only have loot (In whatever form necessary, tokens) drop only at the end of the dungeon.
/shrug.
If you don't get anything till the end, you won't leave. -
12-10-2013, 04:44 PMNoahlimits
And if you get disconnected or lose power you should forfeit your drop? Nope, don't like it.
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12-11-2013, 01:48 AMFelisIf you disconnect, you are in the party again after you reconnectedQuote:
Originally Posted by Noahlimits
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12-11-2013, 02:07 AMxRitzx
I like the idea overall. With crystal tower's loot restrictions, this system would work way better than the generic system used in everything from Satasha to AK.
People queue up for in progress WP/AK instances that are almost finished to get fast myth and repeatedly abandon parties that aren't at the last boss. This same problem would happen here if loot only dropped at the end of crystal tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shioban
I'm not sure how this would be handled. However, you shouldn't be going into a dungeon worrying about losing loot because of disconnecting. If you're disconnecting that much, that's an entirely different problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahlimits
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12-11-2013, 02:22 AMDoctorPepper
I would still much rather see loot lockouts based on job, if you get a piece of drg armor then you're locked out of drg armor, etc. Would be nice to see the armory system actually get used rather than pretending I can play multiple jobs and only getting to really play one.
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12-11-2013, 02:34 AMElurraI think this would probably be best to prevent people from getting the loot they want and leaving. I also like it because you can see what is available from the whole run. No getting a piece early and then a piece you'd rather have drops later and you can't even roll on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shioban
On the downside, if someone DCs right before/during the final boss or something and can't get back on until after everything is over, they'll miss out on all the loot.
Hmm, but this is true, too. Maybe they could make it so you can only roll on loot that you were there for.Quote:
Originally Posted by xRitzx
Ultimately, the way it is (defeat boss, get loot) is how it's going to stay, most likely. It's simply up to the players to not be jerks to one another. Easier said than done, unfortunately. :\ -
12-11-2013, 02:38 AMCodek
What about the case where the group just doesn't have what it takes to kill the final boss?
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12-11-2013, 02:45 AMzdub303We're talking about CT here, that shouldn't be an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Codek
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12-11-2013, 02:48 AMCodekThat's an interesting statement to make, considering the plenty of failed Ifirit and Garuda groups I've seen over the past few months. CT is still a step up from this...Quote:
Originally Posted by zdub303
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12-11-2013, 02:53 AMzdub303Past few months though you say? Average gear level has gone up considerably since though, how many fails have you seen in the last few weeks? Most likely, if a group of 24 players can't figure out the last boss with the average gear level most of the game is at, maybe that group doesn't deserve the loot? (like in any boss situation).Quote:
Originally Posted by Codek
24 players almost guarantees enough gear to make 'raid finder' difficulty content pretty simple I suspect. -
12-11-2013, 02:57 AMxRitzxGood point. I overlooked that somehow. There are advantages and disadvantages to every decision. With the OP's solution, you shouldn't have people leaving parties and should have the manpower to beat the last boss. If you get your loot directly after each boss, some people will leave and you may not have the manpower to beat the final boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Codek
In the case you mention, it would be very similar to a failed castrum... -
12-11-2013, 02:57 AMShiobanQuote:
Originally Posted by Elurra
Can't really account that 'someone might D/C' that's not really a good point to make seeing as the vast majority won't spend their time fervently logging back in.
The chances of this happening are so slim, it's simply a 'tough luck' scenario. -
12-11-2013, 03:07 AMCodekIt just gives a bad taste in my mouth thinking about a group of new players that create the coordination to complete 90%. Just to run out of time and get sucker punched with a sign that says "Get Better!" for the rewards.Quote:
Originally Posted by zdub303
Also, I don't think anyone was pleased with running CM the first time only to discover that each boss kill rewarded you with nothing (till the end). It was "tolerable" since all fights were basically a joke (not a good thing) and the story was somewhat entertaining. I wouldn't want CT to be modeled off of this philosophy going forward TBH. -
12-11-2013, 04:15 AMArkista
No thanks. If I get a piece of gear in a dungeon I want to use it, Not wait until the end to get it.
Lets say it was in place....
What happens if you win a piece of loot you have been dying to get for weeks and something happens in real life or in game? You can't log back in Fire, Emergency, Internet goes out, some douche bags want to kick you or you run out of time...... See not a good idea but nice try. I already get crazy when I'm in coils and a piece I need drops. -
12-11-2013, 04:54 AMNeo_GenesisFire/Emergency: In any regular RPG, your console or PC will get burnt to a crisp by a fire and you will no longer have the game to play at all >.>; At least with FFXIV, you can get a new computer and still be exactly where you left off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkista
Internet goes out: Same thing with a regular RPG, if the internet goes out while your playing it, you could consider it the same as the power going out. You're stuck where you saved last.
Vote-to-Kick: It's already been stated by the Dev's that if this is abused in any way, they will be taking action. All you have to do is report the people that were in your party.
Running out of time: If you can't complete the dungeon, then you don't get the drops. I think you should actually have to complete the content in order to get the drops from that run. That's the whole idea behind this. -
12-11-2013, 05:29 AMNeo_GenesisI think they could make it to where if you d/c before the last boss and have already rolled on something, then the party decides to go on without you, you can still log in at the end of the instance and leave the dungeon, claiming the drop that you had claimed a lot on. Doesn't seem to hard to impose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elurra
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12-11-2013, 07:57 AMArkistaLMAO......Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Genesis
Are you serious?
This isn't another RPG game where you just find a save point in a Dungeon and save. So your right if this was a Single Player RPG that you could save and come back. But this is a MMO, So idk why you are trying to tell me about a RPG mechanic.
So your telling me if my house caught on fire I should just get another system and log back in to get my loot?
If my internet goes out and I can't log back in the game will auto disconnect me. And I wont be in the instance/Dungeon.
If I get vote kicked out then I lose my piece of gear. You think a GM will give my gear cause I got kicked NO.
And lastly "Running out of time" and "should actually have to complete the content in order to get the drops". Those are biggest issues. I have been to so many Dungeon runs where people have left and the party disbands because of stupid crap. What if the group can't beat the rest of the dungeon? We have to forfeit all rewards that we've earned?
There are just to many issues that can and will go wrong for that to work.
To fix the real issue then SE would need to implement a system so people can't leave a dungeon after obtaining a piece of loot for X amount of mins. Even then I don't see that happening. Because there are bigger issues in the game.
But that's my 2 cents. -
12-11-2013, 11:16 AMNeo_GenesisBecause, it is just like a regular RPG.. It's a MMORPG. The mechanics are almost the same. Take BCoB for example. After you clear Turn 1 and go through the exit, you are "saved" to Turn 2 or higher for the rest of the week and don't have to clear it again if your group decides to leave the dungeon and return once again. You jump straight in to Turn 2 when you head in next time. I don't see how this is so shocking...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkista
Yes? In this game you're able to do that. If you had a game such as Final Fantasy V on your 3DS, for example, and it got caught in a fire, you wouldn't be able to just buy another 3DS and game and pick up right where you left off.Quote:
So your telling me if my house caught on fire I should just get another system and log back in to get my loot?
This is one of the things I said in my ealier post that they would have to figure out. Maybe they could have the drop still saved to you and the next time you complete the dungeon you would get it automatically. Also, if you rolled on another drop during the instance, you would have a choice at the end of which one you actually wanted.Quote:
If my internet goes out and I can't log back in the game will auto disconnect me. And I wont be in the instance/Dungeon.
Of course not. However, the players that kicked you would be disciplined.Quote:
If I get vote kicked out then I lose my piece of gear. You think a GM will give my gear cause I got kicked NO.
Once again, as I said earlier, most of the groups will be premade. It would actually promote creating an 8-man group server-side to prevent people from just leaving and griefing. If you don't feel like doing that, it's on you. And you'll be taking the chance of getting into a terrible group. It's all your choice.Quote:
And lastly "Running out of time" and "should actually have to complete the content in order to get the drops". Those are biggest issues. I have been to so many Dungeon runs where people have left and the party disbands because of stupid crap. What if the group can't beat the rest of the dungeon? We have to forfeit all rewards that we've earned?