Relic weapon rant.

Now I'm wondering. If SE are adding weapons that are going to be stronger than Relic Weapons, won't that defeat the purpose of all the story and work behind the quest of getting a relic weapon then making it +1. Even SE is going to keep expanding the threshold of relic weapon, why are you temporary adding a weapon that's stronger than the relic.
It sounds counter productive, even if they're trying to add weapons for people who won't be able to expand their horizons and deal with the end-game content to get the best relic weapon in game, why do they prioritize raising weapons to ilv95 unless they have a plan of merging ilv95 allagan with relic+1 further on.

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Originally Posted by Aldehido

Now I'm wondering. If SE are adding weapons that are going to be stronger than Relic Weapons, won't that defeat the purpose of all the story and work behind the quest of getting a relic weapon then making it +1. Even SE is going to keep expanding the threshold of relic weapon, why are you temporary adding a weapon that's stronger than the relic.
It sounds counter productive, even if they're trying to add weapons for people who won't be able to expand their horizons and deal with the end-game content to get the best relic weapon in game, why do they prioritize raising weapons to ilv95 unless they have a plan of merging ilv95 allagan with relic+1 further on.

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Look at it as "you need your +1 to complete Coil" and it makes a lot more sense.

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Originally Posted by Aldehido

If SE are adding weapons that are going to be stronger than Relic Weapons, won't that defeat the purpose of all the story and work behind the quest of getting a relic weapon then making it +1.

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Relic weapons can be done in under 2 hours if you exclude the 900 tomes.

Allagan weapons on the other hand require significantly more effort. On top of needing to down T5, there's ye olde RNG to deal with each week. Why shouldn't they be better for a bit?

To me this is kind of the "My character is now perfect, nothing else can be better" defense.

Like someone else said, having a relic weapon is pretty much a prerequisite for coil to begin with.

Granted, love it or hate it, the relic quest isn't really that formidable. Most people attribute problems with Titan to lag or just impatient players. So I think a consensus would say he isn't THAT difficult.

So what's wrong with having something to shoot for? Do you really want to be done with the game already?

Personally, the idea of a +7 relic weapon is a bit silly. To put it this way, the Allagans did some pretty awful things to Bahamut. He was the one that brought about the apocalypse so, if they have some little trinket that makes stuff dead, I wants it. :p

Because of the odds of finishing Turn 5 (if you can even get a group there) and getting your weapon drop can take just as long or even longer than getting a relic +1

They had to make a change because too many people acquired relics via people selling Titan HM runs. They've even stated something along the lines of (paraphrasing) "Relic weapons have become too commonplace"

I think they need to add more chapters to the relic to make it stronger. To use the excuse that its too easy to get or common is a dev problem... If they didn't make it "easy" there wouldn't be a problem. So when these new weapons become common and they will, what they going to say then?

They went to +2 in FFXI so I have no doubt they'll add in +2 for Relics, maybe even beyond or other optional further upgrades for Relics.

Maybe there'll be completely different "legendary" weapons all-together that will require a way longer quest-chain that *might* keep the progression raiders who hate the fact that they aren't special snowflakes anymore from bitching because it'll be too easy for everyone else besides themselves to get it... who knows.

I don't feel like looking through the letter post until they release the summary for a quote.

But one of the questions was. Is there a reason story/relic reason for extreme primals to be in the game? And they said there was, So a way to +2 the Relic might already be in the 2.1 update. Which might make the Buffed Allagan weapons and Relic +2 weapons about equal.

The whole point of buffing Allagan weapons was so relic was not on par with them because they are so "noob friendly" or extremely easy to obtain, if you like. Compared to needing to beat turn 5. So I doubt it.

Because relic is way too common place now. Yoshi himself said that it's not at all special anymore and too many people have them. This can be attributed to people carrying others and selling runs. I wish they'd just make it against TOS to sell runs, that'd fix a lot.

Welcome to the gear treadmill, it's what endgame is all about.

News flash.

'Linear gear (treadmill) progression' means that ALL existing gear becomes obsolete when new higher lvl gear is released.

Yep, your hard work will be rendered meaningless every 3-4 months as new gear is introduced and the stuff you prize now (ie Relics) becomes face-roll-able to even the newest of the newbies.



If you think ARR should start branching into horizontal progression as opposed to vertical... well there's an argument to be made for it -- and many threads on the topic.

I'd be fine with relic weapons if they were the hardest weapons to get in the game, but they're just not.

Personally, I think they should stay ilv90, Allagan should be ilv100 and extreme primal weapons should be ilv95.

I think we only have the first stages to the real relic weapon. Over time and more content is released we will have to do tough conte t to upgrade it farther.

I think I didin't make myself clear. And I agree with most of you guys until a certain point.
What I'm complaining about is the importance of the relic in the lore, and yes I have the same argument regarding you need +1 in order to beat Twintania. Yet I believe that Allagan weapons should be left the same and include a new quest in order to improve the relics above allagan level. I'm not arguing about linear progression regarding gear because that's always been the same way in end-game in every game. But I feel like SE hyped everyone with the relic weapon as if it's the most important piece of weapon for your job, then they give you a RNG weapon.

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Originally Posted by Destinova

I think we only have the first stages to the real relic weapon. Over time and more content is released we will have to do tough conte t to upgrade it farther.

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I hope this is the point.

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Originally Posted by Aldehido

What I'm complaining about is the importance of the relic in the lore, and yes I have the same argument regarding you need +1 in order to beat Twintania. Yet I believe that Allagan weapons should be left the same and include a new quest in order to improve the relics above allagan level. I'm not arguing about linear progression regarding gear because that's always been the same way in end-game in every game. But I feel like SE hyped everyone with the relic weapon as if it's the most important piece of weapon for your job, then they give you a RNG weapon.

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Yet again, reading my post regarding the lore, same is with AF, AF is lore related gear with alot of importance but it became obsolete. This might be my FFXI side speaking since relics were in fact the best piece of gear in game until they added delve and everyone and their mother who got lucky got a piece of weapon on par or better than the relics.

Unless they're making these ancient Allag weapons the weapons of choice eventually.

Sorry for the thread spam.

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Originally Posted by Aldehido

I hope this is the point.

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Like in ffxi but the weapons we get in ffxiv are actually useable. I say it should have 4 complete upgrades. After that they come out with something differsnt.
Bring in some of those special weapon abilities like attacking twice or occasional deals damage based on hp.

FFXIV relic are not the same as FFXI Relics. They may have the same name but they aren't the same thing.

In 2 months I got all 9 relics, Took about 4 hours per relic. These were not hard to get at all. Once you done the boss fights required for them once they are a joke to repeat after your group knows all the mechanics. Compare that to FFXI pre dynamis nerf which took like 2 years or so of gathering currency farming gil to buy currency to make a relic weapon. There if very little time investment to the FFXIV relics you can finish one in a day. I think I even had a day where I did 2 of them in 1 day when i was getting close to finishing "Armed to the Teeth"

How do you justify it lore-wise? You don't.

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Originally Posted by Aldehido

I think I didin't make myself clear. And I agree with most of you guys until a certain point.
What I'm complaining about is the importance of the relic in the lore [...] But I feel like SE hyped everyone with the relic weapon as if it's the most important piece of weapon for your job, then they give you a RNG weapon.

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Perhaps you're a bit hung up on FFXI's interpretation/treatment of 'relic weapons'?

The relic weapons we have now are almost more like "AF weapons".. they are the final piece to our AF gear (in design, at least), and the +1s are matched to the AF+1 armor.

When you think "relics", you might be thinking of the legendary FF final weapons such as: Masamune, Save the Queen, Excalibur, Ragnarok, Kain's Lance, Nirvana, God Hand, Genji Blade, Lionheart, etc..


The true 'legendary weapons' aren't in the game yet, and they won't be for some time.

why did you post a new thread when there's already one that's discussed to death?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ffed-to-ilvl95.

My 67 mustang is great. I've spent many years working on restoring it to better than original condition (+1). I literally cannot count the time put into this thing.

Picked up a 2010 Camaro SS. Aside from defeating the loan boss at the credit union (which I drove to in my mustang), can't say I've put that much effort going back and forth to shops. This thing blows the door off my mustang too!

Until I finish the 348 Stroker and 3.73 9" rear I'm building for it..

^troll harder

Relics are not the final weapons in game. Allagan weapons on t5 the majority of them are better in slot then Relic +1. There will be weapons better then them eventually. Relics are not really hard to get or un-common making them no where near end game.

The idea that relics must be at the same level or best in slot forever is absurd in a vertical gear progression based game and I hope they just drop them and be done with it. There too easy to get, everyone and their mother has one and they are not anywhere near as unique as was perhaps invisioned.

As a raiding entry level weapon they are great and serve the purpose, but SE please forget about them and move on.

sorry i skiped everything, but they might be adding more of the quest to upgrade them even more in 2.1?

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Relic weapons can be done in under 2 hours if you exclude the 900 tomes.

Allagan weapons on the other hand require significantly more effort. On top of needing to down T5, there's ye olde RNG to deal with each week. Why shouldn't they be better for a bit?

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Allagan Weapons in fact need even less time to obtain, its just the RNG that matters. A weapon drops every time anyways, and sooner or later, you get yours aswell for not too much of a hassle :p

Obtaining a AF Weapon+1 isn't that hard to obtain. As far as current content goes, obtaining an Allagan weapon is infinitely tougher. Why would you keep the Allagan weapon on the lower tier?

As most rants around, that was hilariously sad.

I'm very glad they're going this route for Allagan. Yes "Relic" weapons for XIV are way too common place, it feels more like AF weapons back from FFXI. And now I actually wana strive to get the Allagan books for my SMN/SCH!

I agree with what some people in here are saying, yes I think they are more relevant to being AF weapons(FFXI)=Relic Weapons(FFXIV). And I do hope eventually we get the end weapon to end all weapons i.e. Excalibur/Aegis for PLDs, Nirvana for SMNs, Gugnir for DRGs, etc etc.

Just my two gil :3

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Obtaining a AF Weapon+1 isn't that hard to obtain. As far as current content goes, obtaining an Allagan weapon is infinitely tougher. Why would you keep the Allagan weapon on the lower tier?

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Why is an Allagan Weapon infinitely tougher? The first players running around with Ifrit Weapon didnt have it easier to beat Garuda and Titan and to get the Relic finally, sure it was in fact a bit simpler cause the mechanics of hardmode primals is the same rotation all over again, but its no big of a difference with T5, once you manage a kill, it wont be that hard on the later kills anymore ^^

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Originally Posted by Vindicate

Why is an Allagan Weapon infinitely tougher? The first players running around with Ifrit Weapon didnt have it easier to beat Garuda and Titan and to get the Relic finally, sure it was in fact a bit simpler cause the mechanics of hardmode primals is the same rotation all over again, but its no big of a difference with T5, once you manage a kill, it wont be that hard on the later kills anymore ^^

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Ifrit and Garuda can be done in AF, Titan can be done in dungeon gear and a few bits of DL (you simply need the HP) whereas Coil requires atleast DL/Relic to start and requiring more ilvl90 pieces the further you go. Allagan weapons are far tougher and time consuming to get not to mention you can get your relic+1 by simply running WP/AK for three weeks, and lets not forget by that point you outgear WP/AK by quite a margin.

*Looks at all the complaining about lack of progression in these forums*

*Looks at this thread which complains about wanting progression on gear*

I no understand

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Originally Posted by Vindicate

Why is an Allagan Weapon infinitely tougher? The first players running around with Ifrit Weapon didnt have it easier to beat Garuda and Titan and to get the Relic finally, sure it was in fact a bit simpler cause the mechanics of hardmode primals is the same rotation all over again, but its no big of a difference with T5, once you manage a kill, it wont be that hard on the later kills anymore ^^

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I don't really care eitherway, but...

Look at how many people are running around with Allagan weapons, and then how many are running around with relics, and then look at what you just wrote and see if something's not right.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

I don't really care eitherway, but...

Look at how many people are running around with Allagan weapons, and then how many are running around with relics, and then look at what you just wrote and see if something's not right.

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Of course, set BC T5 to the Titan difficulty and people selling the necessary Twintania Kills, then I'd say 50/50, otherwise, its not really accurate since the timeline is Titan HM -> BC T1 till 5
Doesnt say much about a difficulty, and I dont count the way on getting till there, altough for some people without an FC, getting the first pair of Relic Weapons serverwide was more time consuming than running with a group T1 till T5 and getting a kill.
That a Relic weapon is as common as snow in Coerthas is more to the thanks of Titankill-sellers and the people helping others with it, but as it is with Relics, so it will with Twintania Weapons, sooner or later ofc, once more people are weekly farming it.

And lets not forget for how long Twintania was bugged and T5 closed aswell, if this wouldnt happen, there would be by far more Weapons aswell, if RNG is no beeeetch

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Originally Posted by Vindicate

Of course, set BC T5 to the Titan difficulty and people selling the necessary Twintania Kills, then I'd say 50/50, otherwise, its not really accurate since the timeline is Titan HM -> BC T1 till 5
Doesnt say much about a difficulty, and I dont count the way on getting till there, altough for some people without an FC, getting the first pair of Relic Weapons serverwide was more time consuming than running with a group T1 till T5 and getting a kill.
That a Relic weapon is as common as snow in Coerthas is more to the thanks of Titankill-sellers and the people helping others with it, but as it is with Relics, so it will with Twintania Weapons, sooner or later ofc, once more people are weekly farming it.

And lets not forget for how long Twintania was bugged and T5 closed aswell, if this wouldnt happen, there would be by far more Weapons aswell, if RNG is no beeeetch

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I didn't know the first titan kills took 2-3 months to happen and t5 wasn't done till right after? Just because it takes a derp that long to obtain their weapon doesn't mean it was hard to get, it means they didn't look around enough to get a decent group or they just flat out sucked(or you know, they could have actually joined a fc instead of freeballing). The best guild in the world took 2 months to prepare for this fight and get the gear they needed to do it. The fight actually didn't have any of it's core mechanics bugged other than some exploits, however the mechanics they did change had zero room for error which is why up till that point only a single guild had downed it.

No twin weapons will not be as common as relic weapons, because by the time they nerf the fight to make it possible to carry someone(2.2) no one will even care about ilvl 95 weapons since 2.2 will have even better ones from 6-10 in coil and even possibly from myth. It is not possible to carry people through the fight currently without that 8th player pulling their weight and even then if they somehow suck compared to everyone else it still requires a fair amount of rng with mechanics and even more so with loot.

I really hope to see some sort FFXI Mythic weapon equivalent. I heard when I first started playing that at some point SE would add Legendary Weapons. So maybe they could and those would be really badass and very hard to obtain.