Trying to maximize dps on Twintania as a Warrior. Can't seem to find any guides for a Warrior DPS rotation. Anyone care to share theirs please?
Warrior Full DPS Rotation?
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11-24-2013, 05:10 PMAsiraeWarrior Full DPS Rotation?
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11-24-2013, 05:33 PMPaikis
Turn Defiance off. Use Berserk and Internal Release on cooldown. Keep Fracture up, do not clip, do not break a combo chain for it, but keep it up as often as possible.
Spam Heavy Swing -> Maim -> Storm's Eye combo. Every time Unchained is up, turn defiance back on, Infuriate-> Unchained -> Vengeance -> Combo to 5 wrath -> Inner Beast -> Defiance off and back to spamming Storm's Eye. Try to time this for Berserk as often as possible, but don't delay Berserk for it.
Use Butcher's Block combo only when you can do it without taking threat, it is the higher DPS combo, but it will rip threat if you use it often. -
11-24-2013, 07:13 PMTaneshimaPopura
Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm Eye > Fracture (Keep it up) > BB Combo/SE Combo depending on threat position.
Brutal Swing, Internal Release, Berserk on CD
If threat is far from MT, Defiance > Infuriate > Unchained > Till duration over. > Defiance off
on other scenarios, Defiance > Infuriate > Inner Beast > Vengeance (If available) > Combo till Defiance CD off if at 4 Wrath follow up till Inner Beast before turning off.
Also on another note, try to land Berserk on Unchained as it will generate 1 more Wrath. -
11-25-2013, 01:20 AMStormx
Misinformation so far, unfortunately.
1. You do not want to use Berserk and Internal Release on CD. You want to use them together, in almost every possible scenario.
2. Do not touch Defiance. Going into Defiance, using Infuriate so you can get that fatty Inner Beast off is more detrimental to your DPS than anything. When you go into Defiance, you are forced to stay in it for 10 seconds. All DPS gain you will get from being able to use Inner Beast you will completely lose from being forced to sit in Defiance for 10 seconds.
Everything else mentioned in this thread is correct. Spam Storms Eye combo until threat allows you to weave in Butchers Block. Never let Maim fall, do not clip Fracture and don't let Fracture fall off. -
11-25-2013, 01:47 AMGamemakoUsing them together will get you roughly 1.4x benefit per 90s, while CD is 1x benefit per 60s as a baseline. However, since you're overalapping on one third of your uses (every 180s), using it on-cooldown will actually get you roughly 1.13x benefit per 60s, or about 21% greater benefit than waiting for Berserk every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormx
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11-25-2013, 03:07 AMStormx
You could not have explained that any more vaguely than you just did.
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11-25-2013, 03:20 AMAmida2k2
Was pretty clear to me.
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11-25-2013, 06:05 PMAsirae
i thought he was trying to say its better to use inner release on cooldown but then the numbers don't make sense.
which is it?
anyways on Twintania you want to use them together. but beserk isn't up for second fast conflag. -
11-25-2013, 06:47 PMTaneshimaPopura
Sadly however optimal you may perform your DPS rotation, same gear Paladin in Sword Oath will still clear your floor EVERY time. What warriors have is only burst, so pick the right situation where burst is needed.
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11-25-2013, 08:07 PMEpicEmpyreanYou couldn't be more wrong. Same geared PLD in Sword Oath vs WAR not in Defiance we dumpser the PLD. Higher Potency in the combo alone should show that to you. I'm sitting in almost full iLvL 90 (only missing the legs and I have the iLvL 80 relic) gear with the crafted accessories and my WAR does 220 DPS sustained with Defiance off. Show me a PLD that can do that...Quote:
Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura
I have about -30 STR on my PLD vs my WAR and still only hit about 160 sustained DPS on PLD in Sword Oath...
As for WAR DPS rotation, most of what people have said here is true.
Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Eye > Fracture ... repeat steps 1-3 over and refresh Fracture when it falls off. If/when you are far enough behind the tank in hate, you can throw in alternating Butcher's Block combo with Storm's Eye combo until you start creeping back up on the MT. Drop Fracture if you are starting to run out of TP, and use all your damage cooldowns when they are available. DO NOT ever go into Defiance, it is a direct DPS drop with everything you do in there compared to just staying out of it and doing a normal rotation. -
11-25-2013, 08:21 PMMarxamUnchained is 20 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormx
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11-25-2013, 08:28 PMJahaudantAs a 30 VIT PLD wearing STR accessories 220 DPS is actually roughly where I bottom out on Striking Dummies.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicEmpyrean
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11-25-2013, 11:13 PMKittenJitsuAren't striking dummies very different than dungeon mobs or bosses?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahaudant
It's honestly tough to tell. People always say PLD > WAR, WAR > PLD or PLD = WAR in terms of dps.
>.> They both can switch to a "DPS" role. Its there for when the OT doesn't need to actually OT. -
11-26-2013, 12:36 AMJahaudantApart from the fact that actual bosses tend to move/become immune/vanish/require target switching they are absolutely no different to Striking Dummies. For the record, level 1 Striking Dummies are also no different to level 50 Striking Dummies except for the accuracy required to hit them.Quote:
Originally Posted by KittenJitsu
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11-26-2013, 12:45 AMGremboFrom the OP i'm guessing they have a PLD MT and WAR OT, when exactly does a PLD in sword oath have anything to do with the OP's question?Quote:
Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura
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11-26-2013, 12:46 AMKittenJitsuSo you will do the same dmg against a lv 1 dummy as to a 50 dummy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahaudant
Thanks for the info. I am learning something new today. :D -
11-26-2013, 01:53 AMBaymanI think you have maximum damage, and maximum spike damage confused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormx
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11-26-2013, 02:37 AMGamemakoUse Inner Release on cooldown for 21% more benefit than waiting for Berserk. Inner Release will be used in concert Berserk every 180s because the cooldowns will naturally align.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asirae
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura
Rather amusingly, you are both wrong. Math and parses have both shown that PLD (Sword Oath) and WAR (non-Defiance) DPS are effectively identical. This is, as I have said too many times now, by design. Giving one a non-tanking DPS advantage pigeonholes it into secondary tank for the sake of efficiency.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicEmpyrean
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11-27-2013, 12:45 PMmr_wazzabiAre paladins able to crit hits for close to 600 damage? I think notQuote:
Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura
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11-27-2013, 01:01 PMmr_wazzabiSo with this in mind, say you use unchained, build 5 stacks of wrath quickly and blow off inner beast, does that mean you can sort of nullify the damage lost from 10s of forced defiance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
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11-27-2013, 02:14 PMTowerDeschainIt takes around 20s of global cooldowns to go from 0 to 5 Wrath stacks. However both Vengeance and Berserk add Wrath stacks, meaning that 20s Unchained countdown can be cut short enough to get an Inner Beast off with Unchained Still up.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi
You can also do this, though it depends on your MTs aggro.
– Keep Defiance on from the start (watch your aggro)
– Work up to 5 Wrath the old fashioned Way
– When the tank has sufficient aggro, blow Unchained
– Berserk + Internal Release + Vengeance
– Get to 5 stacks with 3x Combo
– Inner Beast
– Infuriate
– Inner Beast -
11-28-2013, 06:00 AMContemporary750 Spirits WithinQuote:
Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi
700 Halone
30 vit Paladin with STR accessories. -
11-28-2013, 06:16 AMwlakizI crit close to 900 with BB with 30 vit, tank gear and normal relic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Contemporary
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11-28-2013, 06:17 AMGamemakoSingle shot damage has nothing to do with it, especially since PLD uses a stance that increases damage rate without increasing spikes at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi
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11-28-2013, 09:21 AMContemporaryAs Gamemako stated, single large hits mean nothing. You are forgetting Paladin's get 50 additional potency every 2.32 seconds (If using Curtana). That is essentially a free 50 potency per GCD used (It is actually more if you do the math, but for simplicity's sake).Quote:
Originally Posted by wlakiz
I am not arguing that Paladin is better than Warrior or vice-versa, I am stating that Paladin's damage output is not as bad as most people think. -
11-28-2013, 09:36 AMGamemakoI think a lot of people assumed that WAR would be the more damage-focused tank. It doesn't help that WAR does have some advantage in tanking stance (though the tanking DPS relationship is rather complex), and many players just assume this extends into non-tanking situations where it in fact does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Contemporary
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11-28-2013, 04:24 PMTaneshimaPopura
Go download the DPS meter App then compare a perfect Warrior rotation vs a Paladin simple rotation. Paladin wins. When you look at the damage contribution you will find that around 30% DPS contribution comes from Auto Swings, Sword Oath just makes that part better and flat out beats the warrior without being a try hard I might add..
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11-28-2013, 05:12 PMwlakizUnlikely, unless you parse it against a dummy over the course of 10min but if you look at reality, you never get 100% up time . All curent fights favors warrior style dps and that goes from dungeon bosses to Ifirit, Garuda, titan and all BC turnsQuote:
Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura
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11-28-2013, 05:22 PMTaneshimaPopura
Dungeon bosses and Primal yes probably Warriors get more bang for their buck with well timed CDs. But lets not forget the time where Warrior is compelled to do Maim > SE Combo cause Primal just whooshed away. I don't see why on Caduceus you are not on 100% uptime, nor do ADS, Turn 4 you might have minor down time. Only downtime for Twintania is pretty much Snake kite phase if you are doing it.
And it has been confirmed many a times. That Berserk is no where close to Fight or Flight in the DPS department, the warrior has to use Internal Release to overcome the advantage of Fight or Flight. And since you said 10 minutes, Warrior as of current implementation zero out on TP faster than Paladin by a large margin, even more so if you use minimal to no Defiance. -
11-29-2013, 12:53 AMwlakiz
Turn 1, if you're doing burst down strategy like what most fc do these days then warrior is better. For ads, the fight is too short for the pally's sword oath to catch up, also you want the slashing buff if you go the left route. Turn 4, again you want burst DPs to get the mobs down. Turn 5, burst for the conflag.
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11-29-2013, 02:27 AMTaneshimaPopura
Sword Oath catches up... All the time...
Turn 1 Paladin can Sword Oath / FoF any time do slimes before split phase which already put them in the lead, 1-2 Stack you can still stay in Sword Oath just fine.
Turn 2 3 mini ADS all tanked using Sword Oath, main ADS using Sword Oath when OTing.
Turn 4 W1 Sword Oath single targeting all, W2 Sword Oath when Soldier is down, W3 Sword Oath if OT, W4 Sword Oath if you aren't taking all the bugs with 1 Rook, W5 same deal Sword oath after Soldier is down/incapacitated > Dreadnaught. W6 Sword Oath after Rook, W5 Dreadnaught and Soldier are down.
Turn 5 P1 Sword Oath once Scourges are down, P2 Sword Oath all the way, FoF on odd numbered Conflags, P3 Sword Oath during Kite if you are doing it, Sword Oath after Meteor and Snakes are down, P4 Sword Oath all day long, P5 Sit in NeuroLink and Sword Oath all day long.
HM Titan OT sit in Sword Oath all day long...
HM Ifrit OT sit in Sword Oath all day long...
HM Garuda OT sit in Sword Oath all day long pop Rampart/Sentinel/Bulwark to replace the small need to reduce damage.
So really tell me.... How is a hardly 30% DPS increase able to beat the Paladin who has all round safer offensive CD, and 2 off GCD skills with 300 and 250 potency? And has a better TP sustainability.
Answer... they don't... They just can't DPS meter proves that. -
11-29-2013, 02:35 AMVeerne
I use the following rotation when "DPSing", mostly to maximize Storm's Eye debuff uptime.
I stay out of Defiance just to keep my threat low at all times.
1. Heavy Swing -> Maim -> Storm's Eye
2. Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block
3. Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block
4. Storm's Eye wears off -> Fracture, if not already applied (DoTs do not benefit from resistance reduction) -> Go to 1.
If the target does not require stunning, throw a Brutal Swing between hits as often as you can, same with Mercy Stroke once it becomes available. Use cooldowns - Berserk and Internal Release - together as much as possible, preferably after applying Storm's Eye debuff, and try getting a Fracture off before Berserk wears off. -
11-29-2013, 02:56 AMExstal
Threat tl;dr
Warrior just be boss main tank and let PLD be DPS OT chump -
11-29-2013, 03:37 AMwlakiz"Sit in Sword Oath all day long" doesn't mean you will actually be attacking all day long, unless you're telling me that you would eat weights, bombs and landslides just so you can put in more dps? Warriors' burst is more useful and effective in killing Ifirit spikes, we can kill garuda's plums more effectively than pally's sword oath auto attack. We can get people out of gaols and burst the heart down better than a pally in sword oath.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura
Turn 1: You won't be tanking in sword oath for first 2 stacks because your snap aggro generation is terrible, unless you tell the dps to hold back. Warriors can actually hold aggro without defiance on thanks to our burst.
Turn 2. Again, you won't be using sword oath, cause your aggro gen sucks. If we OT we would do more damage cause we can mitigate the slashing resistance with our debuff.. you can't.
Turn 4. Again, shitty aggro generation any time you want to tank with Sword Oath.
Turn 5. Our Burst is better for dreadknight, conflags, snakes.. etc. Your sword oath doesn't provide much benefits to those mechanics.
Your 300 pot skill assumes you have full hp.. not likely to happen when you're tanking in sword oath and not sure about which skill you are referring to with the 250 pot. Warrior's 300 pot is unmitigated in any stance, with ~20s cooldown, we have constant crit%, miam + slashing debuff.
If you truly believe an OT pally would provide the same dps utility as an OT warrior then there's nothing more I can say. -
11-29-2013, 05:09 AMExstalSo you're saying you're going to be off tanking in Defiance? Not to mention, why are you saying PLD is tanking in Sword Oath?Quote:
Originally Posted by wlakiz
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11-29-2013, 05:48 AMwlakizfrom TaneshimaPopuraQuote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
Quote:
Turn 1 Paladin can Sword Oath / FoF any time do slimes before split phase which already put them in the lead, 1-2 Stack you can still stay in Sword Oath just fine.
Turn 2 3 mini ADS all tanked using Sword Oath, main ADS using Sword Oath when OTing.
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11-29-2013, 04:16 PMTaneshimaPopura
Sword Oath is no where near weaker in getting threat as compared to Shield Oath, in fact it is better at getting threat than Shield Oath. Proven and tested.
If you are OT you can stay on Titan/hit something all day long really, if you memorize his rotation my uptime on on Titan is almost 95% of the time only 5 % is due to Bomb Boulders. Ifrit I'd rather stay on him to interrupt that 1 eruption that happens during Nail Phase, sides Warrior burst is negated when you have a BLM/SMN to Meteor down the Nails all you asking for is just betting pacified laters. On Garuda, SoC plumes spawn already beats Steel Cyclone by a wide margin, what you wanna Overpower more than 2 times here and TP starve yourself even more? Seriously...get a clue.
Turn 1 fact... I took new split Caduceus with Sword Oath moved him and tanked him till 2nd stack came, Shield Oath just before the transition Hood Swing to 3 stacks.
Turn 2 fact... I tanked all mini ADS in Sword Oath poping Rampart at 3 debuffs. No threat issues.
Turn 3 fact...
Wave 1 by the end of the wave I took at least 3 of the Bugs my rotating single target Halone combo on them in Sword Oath stance.
Wave 2 Though establishing threat would be good on Sword Oath it isn't used cause I need the 20% mitigation. After one soldier is incapacitated, Sword Oath it is and down the knight goes.
Wave 3 Why don't you Sword Oath really? Only swap to Shield Oath if on Wave 4 you are taking all the bugs + 1 Rook. Precombo so that you have Halone when the Rook lands.
Wave 4 Rook does piss poor damage unless you are silly enough to let them cast that gay Pox skill on you.
Wave 5 and 6 same as Wave 2 reasoning.
300 Potency skill is almost always 300 potency if you know how to time it well it is no on a GCD... 250 potency is forever 250 potency skill aka Circle of Scorn. Yet if you are OTing in Defiance you are reducing your damage more than the Paladin in no stance already. Even more so if he is in Sword Oath. You have to be in Defiance cause you lose 25% MaxHP and 15% healing received. Storm Eye debuff only benefits Warriors and Paladin.
Do you really want to go to Turn 5 against someone who has cleared it? Tried it as Warrior for shit and giggles and still went back to Paladin?
Fact you don't use Defiance while OTing unless you plan to Unchained combo or just Infuriate Inner Beast for minimal damage increase and possible gimp your damage if you do it wrong. When Big Snake is left there is no reason for you to stay in Defiance. You don't want to use Defiance when a Dreadknight comes, best case scenario get 5 wrath stack and wait for the Dreadknight to come but that itself you gimped your DPS on Twintania. Paladin can sit in Neurolink for Eggbombs in Sword Oath whereas Warriors it is not advisable.
Just no where. That a maximum potential played Warrior vs a maxumum potential played Paladin that the warrior can beat Paladin in the DPS department while OT'ing.
And just in case you are wondering...
Current gear on Paladin...
Heroes Belt
AF2 Head
Darksteel penta-melded Gauntlets
Allagan Chest and Pants
Hoplite boots
Gryphonskin full Accessories (1 Penta melded others only +10 Vit)
+1 Holy Shield
+0 Curtana
Same gear on Warrior too...
AF2 Head > AF2 Head
Bravura +0 -
11-29-2013, 04:31 PMExstal
It's not about threat..it's about Shield Oath's damage mitigation.
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11-29-2013, 04:42 PMTaneshimaPopura
@ Exstal
When Caduceus split his damage is halved, a Hoodswing Auto will barely take off 3k HP in Sword Oath with no stacks.
Mini ADS only deals like 1.5k damage per hit up to 2.5-3k at 3 stacks in Sword Oath.
And the above 2 scenarios the raid isn't taking any damage so there is no reason the dedicated healer cannot handle 3k heals per 2.5 seconds. Heck even precasting Cure 1 on my Shitty Whitemage would have topped it off. -
11-29-2013, 06:25 PMJahaudantSince you appear to have no idea what you are talking about I suggest you refrain from posting any further comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by wlakiz