Give us the chance to re-play coil during week (without rewards)!!!

I'm being bored with this, I want to go with my friends to coil but I'm already bound with my guild.

This is getting completely anti-social, I can't level up a new character just for the sake of playing coil multiple times during week.

It's really boring this thing.
Actually after defeating titan you can't play with friends anymore (dungeon leveling is slow, fate leveling is boring, crafting and gathering is not something you do with friends), basically removing the social part of the game =\

From what I understand their main deterrent is they still want Coil gear to be hard to earn. If they removed the cap, people would be selling and carrying people in Coil runs, which they don't want. They already stated they strongly dislike how common it is that people have relic (in thanks to people selling Titan runs).

I think it's fine as is, and I'm 0-14 in coil drops.

I don't care about drops really, but is NUKING our chance to play with friends. We all have done titan, we can't do ANYTHING toghether, they must introduce some mid-level content to fix this or allow us to run coil (without rewards) with others, really we are not doing ANYTHING today, just watching eachother. Why should I even play =\

I would actually love this option. There have been so many instances in which I would have loved to help some friends out, but I was already locked out. I don't mind getting locked out of loot, I just want to be able to help people out.

In before "Selling Coil Runs 10 million all drops are yours"

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Originally Posted by Fire-Dragon-DoL

We all have done titan, we can't do ANYTHING toghether, they must introduce some mid-level content

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You mean like Crystal Tower, drops iLVL 80 gear. I'd say that fits your request nicely.
Also the lockouts are to prevent groups from selling runs or if you have a static running them over and over til all 8 members have drops.

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Originally Posted by Kirsi

In before "Selling Coil Runs 10 million all drops are yours"

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Exactly. Plus, they intentionally DON'T want EVERYONE AND THEIR MOM in a FC that has a T5 group to be fully geared in i90 too quickly. That defeats the purpose of having a hard to get end game item. It's pitiful how many people bought a relic.

For me the time required to defeat high level content must be based on boss difficulty, not on blocking people from doing it. That's a really bad way to manage subscriptions. You are scared that people drops subscription when they complete content? That's normal, they will see a drop in subscription after 2.1 because all hardcore players will drop till 2.2 will be out (they have done already turn 5, no point in stay in game for more), but guys, that's NORMAL. Hardcore gamers will always finish the content before you produce new content. They drop the subscription and resubscribe once content is back, this works for WoW too (and if money is the problem, WoW is the most rewarding game EVER).

Just make the content enough difficult and you don't have to put this horrible thing like limited marks per week (which is indeed TERRIBLE) and limited runs.
By the way when I said "no rewards" means you can run the dungeon but NO ONE WILL GET DROPS. Why people will do it? Because it's fun, for the same reason I face Titan every time, the fight is interesting.

And it's also useful because you can train on it.

I couldn't agree with you more. There is no reason that a large number of players should be punished because we're afraid a few jackasses are going to buy coil runs. I have 2 groups in my raiding alliance that I'd love to play with occasionally, yet can't. This hurts guilds, all in the name of limiting gear. Difficulty shouldn't be based on gear, it should be based on challenging mechanics.

My FC has groups doing 1-4 in under an hour. So they drop one dps and drag people through it over and over gearing them up VERY fast....

Not going to happen.

There is a guy who shouts to sell Titan a lot and says in his shout over 400+ satisfied customers. I for one don't think we need people selling coil runs all day too. Totally defeats the purpose of end game and you know that people will be shouting to sell coil runs a lot if you could go in more then once even if you didn't get items.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

There is a guy who shouts to sell Titan a lot and says in his shout over 400+ satisfied customers. I for one don't think we need people selling coil runs all day too. Totally defeats the purpose of end game and you know that people will be shouting to sell coil runs a lot if you could go in more then once even if you didn't get items.

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Pretty sure those people are lying. I see the sellers all the time saying they have run hundreds through. I find that very unlikely.

Adding that system would make it an extremely effective way to sell coil runs and gear people out.

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Originally Posted by Nowhere2Be

Adding that system would make it an extremely effective way to sell coil runs and gear people out.

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The people who've run Coil since launch and not got a single piece of gear would say otherwise.

This is such an absolutely stupid argument. This potential "issue" exists in the majority of MMOs, is it a problem in those? NO! So why make the game worse by decreasing the potential content just because a few people could purchase their way through a Coil run (and chances are, get zero loot).

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

The people who've run Coil since launch and not got a single piece of gear would say otherwise.

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Didn't you see other posts? Shouts like "10 mil for a coil run, you get ALL drops" would happen. At least they'd be guaranteed 8 drops of gear. Even if they couldn't currently use it.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

The people who've run Coil since launch and not got a single piece of gear would say otherwise.

This is such an absolutely stupid argument. This potential "issue" exists in the majority of MMOs, is it a problem in those? NO! So why make the game worse by decreasing the potential content just because a few people could purchase their way through a Coil run (and chances are, get zero loot).

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The issue is prevalent in other games. That's why WoW's Raid Finder is instanced seperately to prevent such a problem, they knew the potential threat. You can run a raid as many times as you want in WoW(Only Raid Finder) But you can't carry other people to get gear because there is no 100% confirmed drop rate for items, all gear is internally rolled for each player to prevent farming. If FFXIV did a similar system it would work, but I personally feel this game shouldn't go the route of WoW for obvious reasons.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

Didn't you see other posts? Shouts like "10 mil for a coil run, you get ALL drops" would happen. At least they'd be guaranteed 8 drops of gear. Even if they couldn't currently use it.

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...Urgh, just go away. The fact that you even suggest that enough people can generate millions of gil every week just to purchase Coil runs to create an issue is just laughable.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

...Urgh, just go away. The fact that you even suggest that enough people can generate millions of gil every week just to purchase Coil runs to create an issue is just laughable.

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The fact that you think people won't spend money for coil runs is laughable. it will happen. Look at Titan Runs.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

...Urgh, just go away. The fact that you even suggest that enough people can generate millions of gil every week just to purchase Coil runs to create an issue is just laughable.

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I doubt it would really be as high as 10 million, but runs WOULD happen. To say they wouldn't would be naive. And people CAN make millions of gil every week, it all depends on how much you play.

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Originally Posted by Nowhere2Be

The fact that you think people won't spend money for coil runs is laughable. it will happen. Look at Titan Runs.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

I doubt it would really be as high as 10 million, but runs WOULD happen. To say they wouldn't would be naive. And people CAN make millions of gil every week, it all depends on how much you play.

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...Where did I say no one would?

You people don't seem to understand that the chance of getting no loot in Coil is high, so high in fact that you can go months without any loot. Also, the cost of running people through this would be extremely high, so high that a very small percentile of players could purchase a run. This is nothing like Titan.

Urgh, why the hell do I even have to explain this, use some common fricking sense. The issue would be so pathetically small it would AFFECT NO ONE. God, I try not to get annoyed with people on this forum, but when people actively try to kill the game with their stupid suggestions it annoys the heck out of me.

Getting loot is purely RNG, it's not like the game is set to where you have a high/low chance, you either get lucky or you don't. I have personally been very fortunate with coil drops, other's in my group? Not so much. Regardless of drop chance or not though, this method proposed would make coil runs happen and all that happens is people just lining up single file paying the "best" free companies on the server to carry them for gear they didn't "earn properly." The price would be high, people would pay for it, maybe not everyone, it would be a niche market, but that's enough for the companies selling it, what else are you gonna after your group clears coil.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

...Where did I say no one would?

You people don't seem to understand that the chance of getting no loot in Coil is high, so high in fact that you can go months without any loot. Also, the cost of running people through this would be extremely high, so high in fact that a very small percentile of players could purchase a run.

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Do you honestly think all of those high level FCs that clear all of coil in 2 hours wouldn't sell the runs for a respectable price? And since the FC already got all their drops for the week, the person buying would get EVERY DROP. Granted, most of it wouldn't be stuff they're looking for, but still worth it. I could see them selling T1-4 runs for 2 mil considering it takes them about an hour and Titan runs are as low as 100k now.

So you saying 'chance of getting no loot in Coil is high' is moot, since they'd still get 6-8 drops out of it. Alt coil gear is better than no coil gear.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

Do you honestly think all of those high level FCs that clear all of coil in 2 hours wouldn't sell the runs for a respectable price? And since the FC already got all their drops for the week, the person buying would get EVERY DROP. Granted, most of it wouldn't be stuff they're looking for, but still worth it. I could see them selling T1-4 runs for 2 mil considering it takes them about an hour and Titan runs are as low as 100k now.

So you saying 'chance of getting no loot in Coil is high' is moot, since they'd still get 6-8 drops out of it. Alt coil gear is better than no coil gear.

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Exactly. If they're paying for the run, all the gear goes to them un-contested. Maybe they won't get all pieces for their main class, but getting 8 random pieces just for you....that is absurd, you could start gearing out other classes so quickly.

I wouldn't mind being able to repeat turns but only being able to receive the Myth reward if anyone in the party has progressed past that point for the week.

I don't care about the loot. Place a loot lockout on me, but please for the love of God let us repeat and help out FC-mates! With the HUGE disappointment that Crystal Tower is only 8 people, I'm really hoping they do something with Coil. Things are too restrictive right now, leaving a lot of people feeling left out. Sure the game will go on and you can DF things and shout for things, but these 4-member and 8-member only duties really hinder the entire concept of a free company.

I think the simple solution would be to make selling runs a banable/suspendable offense. But lots of high end FCs who like dem' gils wouldn't like that, so it's hard to make everyone happy.

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Originally Posted by Fire-Dragon-DoL

anti-social

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This has to be the best word to describe the lock-out system.

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Originally Posted by Nowhere2Be

Getting loot is purely RNG, it's not like the game is set to where you have a high/low chance, you either get lucky or you don't. I have personally been very fortunate with coil drops, other's in my group? Not so much. Regardless of drop chance or not though, this method proposed would make coil runs happen and all that happens is people just lining up single file paying the "best" free companies on the server to carry them for gear they didn't "earn properly." The price would be high, people would pay for it, maybe not everyone, it would be a niche market, but that's enough for the companies selling it, what else are you gonna after your group clears coil.

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Aaaaand that would be bad because...?

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Originally Posted by Billie21

Aaaaand that would be bad because...?

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They would feel bad! They didn't earn their gear!!!!!!!

The lockout is a gigantic and toxic elephant in the room/thorn in the ass for a bunch of groups. People complain about not being able to queue up as a 24 man group initially for CT but at the very least you can repeat it and run it with everyone in your FC if you so choose. Everyone wants the opportunity to play with the people they want to play with.

OR they could implement a coil with:
-No lockout
-No restrictions (can do any turn, anytime)
-No requirements (aside from unlocking access to coils through story-line)
-No gear damage (so it can be used strictly to practice strategies)

This coil should give no drops, period. New or old people alike.
This coil should not affect "The real coil's progress"

If people are worried bout ppl getting carried, why not limit the cleared party members to say 2 out of 8? Currently the worst part of coil is (if you don't have a static party) spending 3 hours making a party and not much of actually fighting in coil.

I'd love this to start selling runs. :D

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Originally Posted by Fire-Dragon-DoL

I'm being bored with this, I want to go with my friends to coil but I'm already bound with my guild.

This is getting completely anti-social, I can't level up a new character just for the sake of playing coil multiple times during week.

It's really boring this thing.
Actually after defeating titan you can't play with friends anymore (dungeon leveling is slow, fate leveling is boring, crafting and gathering is not something you do with friends), basically removing the social part of the game =\

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Totally agree. This is why I started this thread... 12k views and 199 responses, of varying, mixed viewpoints.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...The-Rest-of-Us

NO THANKS.

People just want coil carries in the guise, "oh I want to play it with certain friends" when in reality, they want their friends to carry them for drops.

OP has a point though... for an MMO this game is really anti-social.

There is very little for an FC to do together that will actually progress their characters. I almost never play with anyone outside of my static anymore. The game becomes blander and blander every day...

Coil lockouts on a per job basis would really help this.

If people can reliably carry dead weight and sell coil runs, that's a problem with dungeon balance and gear bloat more than anything.

want to do coils with your friends, THEN DONT LOCK YOURSELF OUT OF IT. The answer is pretty simple.

in short .. NO

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Originally Posted by zdub303

OP has a point though... for an MMO this game is really anti-social.

There is very little for an FC to do together that will actually progress their characters. I almost never play with anyone outside of my static anymore. The game becomes blander and blander every day...

Coil lockouts on a per job basis would really help this.

If people can reliably carry dead weight and sell coil runs, that's a problem with dungeon balance and gear bloat more than anything.

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Well the game just launched, you expect 5 years of content with a MMO that just launched?!?!?!? smh

no, its not a problem with dungeon balance and gear bloat. This would CAUSE gear bloat.... It's no secret that i55 gear can get you in the door to coils and maybe kill turn 1, rinse/repeat every week then you're ready for turn two. Now throw in darklight and af+.. .. see where this is going? Stop acting like you don't have the choice.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

And when you have more than 7 friends....?

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rotate weeks? IDK what to tell you, you cant have your cake and eat it too. Doing this will cause a world of problems as far as selling allagan gear goes. Don't pretend you don't know its true. If this happens you will see everyone on the server in full Allegan in less than 3 months... no ty

Yeah people are just gonna start selling runs

IF this was implemented then they should have NOTHING DROP FOR NO ONE, and state before coil starts: "One or more members has cleared this instance , no awards will be dropped."

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Originally Posted by Nowhere2Be

The issue is prevalent in other games. That's why WoW's Raid Finder is instanced seperately to prevent such a problem,

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They are extending this system to normal and hard modes for the expansion because they realized it isn't an issue.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoint

want to do coils with your friends, THEN DONT LOCK YOURSELF OUT OF IT.

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And when you have more than 7 friends....?

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Originally Posted by electricblues42

I couldn't agree with you more. There is no reason that a large number of players should be punished because we're afraid a few jackasses are going to buy coil runs. I have 2 groups in my raiding alliance that I'd love to play with occasionally, yet can't. This hurts guilds, all in the name of limiting gear. Difficulty shouldn't be based on gear, it should be based on challenging mechanics.

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This.

All you need to understand how a game must work.
I completely agree with you electricblues42 ;)

And anyway, really, guys, who cares if people buy relic? I mean, they are paying to take out fun from their game wtf, who cares? I learned it the hard way when I was 14, the gear counts NOTHING, is the experience that make you a player to be desired.
Or you are addicted to pixels instead of content? Didn't you learn already this in MMOs? Gear is crap, you can't expect to be the only one wearing gear because people will keep selling things like runs.

Your fingers will talk for you.

That being said, I already said that "no loot" will be ok for me:

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Originally Posted by DivineAyumi

OR they could implement a coil with:
-No lockout
-No restrictions (can do any turn, anytime)
-No requirements (aside from unlocking access to coils through story-line)
-No gear damage (so it can be used strictly to practice strategies)

This coil should give no drops, period. New or old people alike.
This coil should not affect "The real coil's progress"

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I just WANT TO PLAY, it's an MMO with the smallest "multiplayer" part I have ever meet :(
I want to play with my girlfriend and I can't because I'm an expert player and can easily run up to turn 4, she must do experience, took 1 month or so to teach her titan. Yes she has done it well and surprised me surviving all fight while healing, but meanwhile the coil party is formed and in our guild we doesn't have 16 players that can run coil, only 10-12 probably.

And they are stuck, will get bored, will leave the guild: ANTI-SOCIAL completely

Well! I agree to this and also! Give us Red Mage!