Rude players and extremely long queues for starter dungeons...

Yesterday, I heard a person shouting about a 4.5 queue wait for Sastasha (1st dungeon). He was a Level 17 archer. Because I felt sorry for him, I convinced my FC mates to help with secondary classes to help the poor guy (then brought him into our FC so he can get more help in the future...)

What really annoys me is people were laughing at low level characters waiting in queue for sastasha and toto-rak...

Why is it that so few people are willing to help with the Lower Level dungeons? How can we get new players when nobody is helping new players through the dungeons? Does anyone else out there help people, or am I a fool for being so kind-hearted...?

Er... there's no incentive to queue up for lowbie dungeons, so if there is indeed a massive wait time now that's on the developers for making the early dungeons a required part of the story.

Free companies are the best solution, I don't really think it's rude a bunch of strangers wouldn't respond to a shout that they don't need. Only thing I really derived from this thread is you should probably get over yourself with the "everybody is rude by default and i am kind-hearted" thing.

I don't feel like it.
Just being honest here. :eek:

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Originally Posted by IvoryFox

Er... there's no incentive to queue up for lowbie dungeons, so if there is indeed a massive wait time now that's on the developers for making the early dungeons a required part of the story.
...
Only thing I really derived from this thread is you should probably get over yourself.

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And this is the sort of elitist response that mkes me think the poster is one who would mock and laugh at those waiting.

Dungeons TRAIN you how to properly use your class. Dungeon XP is getting boosted in 2.1 so the DEVs are aware of it and are indeed working to balance it out. Also, Dungeons reward you with chance Aetheria / Rare gear you can turn in for seals... so your point is absolutely nullified. Leveling up alternate classes is best done with dungeons at the appropriate levels so you can train yourself to actually know how to run the class.

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Originally Posted by Johnist

And this is the sort of elitist response that mkes me think the poster is one who would mock and laugh at those waiting.

Dungeons TRAIN you how to properly use your class. Dungeon XP is getting boosted in 2.1 so the DEVs are aware of it and are indeed working to balance it out. Also, Dungeons reward you with chance Aetheria / Rare gear you can turn in for seals... so your point is absolutely nullified. Leveling up alternate classes is best done with dungeons at the appropriate levels so you can train yourself to actually know how to run the class.

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They are putting it where that they add Tome's in for the lower levels that way everyone can just go ahead and join a random dungeons of the lower levels.
- New peoples progress.
- We get tomes.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
At least this is a good thing. They always make it where lower dungeons in MMO's are just collecting dust.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

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Originally Posted by IvoryFox

I don't really think it's rude a bunch of strangers wouldn't respond to a shout that they don't need. Only thing I really derived from this thread is you should probably get over yourself with the "everybody is rude by default and i am kind-hearted" thing.

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They didn't say that. They said people were laughing at them just because they were queuing for low-level dungeons. Which yes, is very rude.

However I'd have to agree with others that there really is no incentive to help. Sure, doing it as a sign of helpfulness and kindness is great. But in the very first reply in your thread you got someone telling you to get over yourself and complaining because you dared to make a thread. So clearly kindness doesn't go hand in hand with this community too well.

I'm saving my WAR for the boost in 2.1. I want to learn how to tank through dungeons, not fate spam and learn at 50 lol.

Yeah, I help low lvl member's and it is true there is no incentive but I still help the low level guy. Some people just think also that, they are to good for everyone else, that they are elite to everyone else (they got that rock on their shoulders) that they are better than everyone else. So, it is not really about helping, but i think more about "I am better than you" aspect.

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Originally Posted by Johnist

And this is the sort of elitist response that mkes me think the poster is one who would mock and laugh at those waiting.

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How on earth was my response elitist? If anything that's you with your "I'm so kind" complex. Low level LFD wait times (if they are indeed longer than max level dungeons) have zero incentive for a max level player, why would anyone queue up for them? I think the point completely went over your head. You edited in the laughed at part after (or during) my response anyway. I don't condone the behavior of those people. You really are full of yourself, "everyone is elitist, everyone is rude, i am jesus incarnate!" blahblahblah. I'll gladly help an FC member with a low level dungeon run. That's what FC's are for.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

They didn't say that. They said people were laughing at them just because they were queuing for low-level dungeons. Which yes, is very rude.

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I agree completely, but that wasn't in the initial post. ;)

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Originally Posted by Johnist

elitist response

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Don't use words you don't understand. Also your entire argument is one big fallacy.

Lol... i knew this was going to happen. Happened sooner than expected though.. shame.

Not a good sign... hurry up 2.1 lol...

If I'm in the area and see a Shout I'll always gladly go Conj or Mara to help them out. :)

They do need to give ALL lower levels content some sort of purpose to be played over and over. Right now they are rather dead when most of the players are at lvl 50 and somewhat stuck in the gear treadmill which require tomes. The patches need to come up every 2 months with hot fixes done every 2 weeks or so...

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Originally Posted by IvoryFox

I agree completely, but that wasn't in the initial post. ;)

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Originally Posted by Johnist

What really annoys me is people were laughing at low level characters waiting in queue for sastasha and toto-rak...

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Last edited at 7:16, you replied two minutes after :P

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Last edited at 7:16, you replied two minutes after :P

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I didn't type my response instantly, don't be silly :). Tabbing a bunch of threads aside, still leaves me a minute or two to read, think, and type up a response, I'd only see his edit from the OP if I'd refreshed the page.

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Originally Posted by IvoryFox

I didn't type my response instantly, don't be silly :). Tabbing a bunch of threads aside, still leaves me a minute or two to read, think, and type up a response, I'd only see his edit from the OP if I'd refreshed the page.

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Well you better get working on insta-responses then :P

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Originally Posted by Johnist

And this is the sort of elitist response that mkes me think the poster is one who would mock and laugh at those waiting.

Dungeons TRAIN you how to properly use your class. Dungeon XP is getting boosted in 2.1 so the DEVs are aware of it and are indeed working to balance it out. Also, Dungeons reward you with chance Aetheria / Rare gear you can turn in for seals... so your point is absolutely nullified. Leveling up alternate classes is best done with dungeons at the appropriate levels so you can train yourself to actually know how to run the class.

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While I agree with you that dungeons provide the proper training, but the item rewards are rarely that glorious. The gear from the early dungeons, both green and pink, grant you maybe 30-40 seals per item. You can get about half the total exp from one dungeon run and over 4 times that many seals from one FATE. That really needs to be tweaked imo.

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

They are putting it where that they add Tome's in for the lower levels that way everyone can just go ahead and join a random dungeons of the lower levels.
- New peoples progress.
- We get tomes.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
At least this is a good thing.

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Er, no, it's a BAD thing and SE don't see what'll happen: the 'speedrun' disease will spread to all instances in the game, so it won't just be late 40s characters told to watch the CS in the inn or /kick from parties.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Er, no, it's a BAD thing and SE don't see what'll happen: the 'speedrun' disease will spread to all instances in the game, so it won't just be late 40s characters told to watch the CS in the inn or /kick from parties.

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Okay, you either.

a. Have 0 people wanting to do lower dungeons because of no reward for them.
or
b. Give older levels an initiative to go back and do randomized dungeons and let the other people progress through storyline.
Speed runners, that's probably going to be the price to pay.

It will also help with the lag because everyone tryna do the same dungeons for Tome's.

I enjoy doing dungeons, so I actually queue up for them when I'm leveling stuff past 15. It took forever, but finally got into a Tamtara run last night. Tried queuing up for Sastasha too, but after several hours, nothing.

Perhaps wait times would not be so bad if:

1. The 4 person limit was removed = Less parties, Less tanks and healers needed overall. This would allow all dungeons to be max 8 manned. Could potentially have 6 DPS in a DF party rather than DPS competing for just 2 slots. It would then be up to parties to coordinate and designate who will tank/off tank, main heal/support heal. Certainly the larger the party the more the distinction between main tank/main heal can be eroded. As a compromise, at least allow 4 person dungeons to be increased to 5 (like FF4) or 6 (like FF11)

2. The Role classification was removed. Beta or was that Alpha dungeons could be beaten without a tank and they were actually harder and longer back then.

3. Award Tomestones from the get go. Perhaps add an NPC in the starter cities for pre 50 Tomestone gear for the pre 50/new players; and lv50 players or players levelling second classes will run dungeons to stock up to be ready at 50.

No benefit, common sense.

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Originally Posted by Johnist

Yesterday, I heard a person shouting about a 4.5 queue wait for Sastasha (1st dungeon). He was a Level 17 archer. Because I felt sorry for him, I convinced my FC mates to help with secondary classes to help the poor guy

Why is it that so few people are willing to help with the Lower Level dungeons? How can we get new players when nobody is helping new players through the dungeons? Does anyone else out there help people, or am I a fool for being so kind-hearted...?

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Its quite simple. IF its your first class then your behind the curb and ppl dont wana help you. The first dungeons are boring and all your hard work to 50 gets removed as they nerf you so you cant use late game skills. IF i wana go into sastasha and dominate i should be able to . Not get pushed back to only being able to cast Flash and so forth. If its your 2nd class . What the hell are you doing. You should fate grind cause SE have deemed this the only way to Lvl your ALT

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Originally Posted by Keyblade

Its quite simple. IF its your first class then your behind the curb and ppl dont wana help you. The first dungeons are boring and all your hard work to 50 gets removed as they nerf you so you cant use late game skills. IF i wana go into sastasha and dominate i should be able to . Not get pushed back to only being able to cast Flash and so forth. If its your 2nd class . What the hell are you doing. You should fate grind cause SE have deemed this the only way to Lvl your ALT

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And then have everyone bale on you in Level 50 dungeons because you may have the GC gear, but none of the actual skills to use your new class in anything other than a zerg rush.... Honestly, SE never stated they preferred FATE grinding as the 'only way to level an ALT'.

In fact, the are boosting the Dungeon XP in 2.1 so that a dungeon is comparable or better than FATEs for leveling. The one thing I would love to see is for Learned Skills not to sync, considering that you can use higher-level cross-class skills in dungeons below the level you'd be able to have it in.

You obviously missed the whole point of the thread, because just bcause someone's new to the game doesn't mean they should have to suffer through an 4-5 hr queue time.

[Bleeding heart rant[/QUOTE]

Either you are playing stupid to gather sympathy or you really are clueless. The reason is there is zero reason to EVER do early dungeons again once you have cleared the story once. Most of the people still attempting to do the story quests have started late and just happen to be FCless and slightly antisocial.

This results in the only venue they have DF and shouts, and getting people to help you do something that is zero benefit to themselves is rather difficult. It is just how life is.

Also besides your original post, you are indeed quite foolish. The stupid talking point of using fates to level leaves you clueless only applies to people that have the IQ and common sense of a rock. In any MMO on the planet a average person should be able to play any class with a bit of online reading and a few hours of hands on learning.

Saying that you should have to slowly headbutt yourself through earlier dungeons to learn your class is nothing short of ignorance. I would say the amount of people who have leveled traditionally and still fail terribly far out weigh the people who rushed using fates, because sadly they read online so little they dont even understand how superior in speed fate leveling is.

From a healing standpoint there are two main problems with the lower level dungeons

1. Only one class can heal them while leveling (not sure how SCH works when level synched)
2. They are exetremely boring to heal. Cure....cure....cure....cure... repeat ad nauseum.

Saying people being unwilling to go back and aid lower level people for absolutely nothing is elitist is unfair. This isn't always the case.

It's difficult to just go and help someone out when you get nothing in return except a wasted hour or two. I always hate wasting other people's time myself, so I try my best to be self reliant and go where I'm needed when someone asks me directly.

Say what you will but it's perfectly alright for people to crave incentive, even a little bit, for their efforts. This is another reason FFXI was a miserable failure. There was never any incentive to go back and help newbies. Newbies quickly became frustrated and went on to games that are actually fun, while FFXI remained stagnant with a closed-minded community.

Thankfully, SE actually has learned from a past mistake for once, as there WILL be incentive to go back to lowbie dungeons in 2.1. (See the Live Letter.)

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Originally Posted by morruin

From a healing standpoint there are two main problems with the lower level dungeons

1. Only one class can heal them while leveling (not sure how SCH works when level synched)
2. They are exetremely boring to heal. Cure....cure....cure....cure... repeat ad nauseum.

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A Level Synched Scholar can actually summon Eos and let it be a heal-bot through the first 3 dungeons, and either just stay in Cleric Stance the entire dungeon or if the tank is undergeared you can heal them too. Toto-rak would give a scholar practice for Brayflox Longstop and Aurum Vale.

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

Okay, you either.

a. Have 0 people wanting to do lower dungeons because of no reward for them.
or
b. Give older levels an initiative to go back and do randomized dungeons and let the other people progress through storyline.
Speed runners, that's probably going to be the price to pay.

It will also help with the lag because everyone tryna do the same dungeons for Tome's.

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They don't need to get higher levels to help though, they just need to increase exp rewards enough so that the people leveling would have incentive to queue. Something like 2-3x the exp of all mobs + a bigger completion bonus so the exp can be competitive with fates.

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Originally Posted by Johnist

You obviously missed the whole point of the thread, because just bcause someone's new to the game doesn't mean they should have to suffer through an 4-5 hr queue time.

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Im afraid it does , cause the Duty Finder is broken. Everyone went DPS. Tanks and Healers are rare as hell. It promotes you really need an FC to help carry you through. Which is fine but one of many options new players dont have. What kind of End Game FC wants to recruit a noob and re-explain everything. Dungeon XP.. Pfft whatever . Who is going to redo dungeons that give no benefit when Fate Grind is that fast you can go 1 - 50 in just over a day.
The way SE designed this game means its not new player friendly. Thats what i was getting it .
The game overall is just poorly designed and this is one of its many flaws.

This is 100% because the developers made these dungeons required yet offer zero incentive for people to run them a second time. Hopefully the plans I've read about in 2.1 will fix this with the random option in the duty finder and boosted exp to be on par with fates. I'd much rather run dungeons for exp over fates.