Twintania Retuned this maintenance incoming FLOOD GATES!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...80#post1499180

Status Effects and Twintania's Firestorm

We've also received a great deal of feedback regarding Firestorm and the effect of status ailments on Firestorm.

Players caught within Firestorm will be immobilized and take damage over time. If they are unable to break out of the firestorm within a certain amount of time, they will be incapacitated. However, players who are caught within Firestorm will not be targeted by enemies. There have been many questions regarding this on the English forums and several videos as well, but the effects of Firestorm have both advantages and disadvantages, and it would not be considered an exploit to take advantage of the effects of Firestorm.

Having said that, the fact that status ailments are effective against Firestorm essentially takes away its disadvantages, which ultimately upsets the balance of this encounter. As we make overall adjustments to the difficulty of this encounter, this aspect of Firestorm will be changed along with Twister, as I'll explain in the next section.

Twintania's Twister

A number of players have asked if the mechanics of Twister are random, but as we have answered previously, this is not a random attack. That said, we believe the timing of this attack to be too unforgiving. Although we will be changing Firestorm, making it more difficult to handle, adjustments will be made to Twister so that the timing required to survive this attack is not quite so severe.

Queue people who haven't even beaten turn 4 complaining that they weren't able to beat it pre-nerf. Also queue people complaining that everyone and their grandpa will have Allagan weapons despite the vast majority of players having never even been in Coil, let alone turn 5.

So, just queue a lot of people complaining about ridiculous stuff.

I really dont understand why they keep dumbing down the game with the changes to twister and firestorm

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Originally Posted by Ceol

Queue people who haven't even beaten turn 4 complaining that they weren't able to beat it pre-nerf. Also queue people complaining that everyone and their grandpa will have Allagan weapons despite the vast majority of players having never even been in Coil, let alone turn 5.

So, just queue a lot of people complaining about ridiculous stuff.

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Are you a wizard?

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Originally Posted by Miltani

I really dont understand why they keep dumbing down the game with the changes to twister and firestorm

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Originally Posted by Miltani

I really dont understand why they keep dumbing down the game with the changes to twister and firestorm

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Twister didn't work most of the time with how slow their servers update position.

and magically over 100 guilds down Twintania by the end of the week. GG

1. Complain about the most unforgiving mechanic in an MMO ever being toned down to reasonable levels.
2. Ignore the huge wall of text before Twister changes that outlines a change to Firestorm to make it harder.

Seriously, get over yourselves, the number of FCs that are at Turn 5 consistently every week is very small.

Oct 8 report from GamerEscape.com

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A couple of weeks ago we reported that a group of players had beaten Turn 5 of the Binding Coil of Bahamut due to a bug that made the runs boss, Twintania,immobile. There has been some talk going around this past week regarding JP groups that have now also defeated Turn 5, possibly using this exploit.

Square Enix has shut down Turn 5 while they look into fixing the fight.

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Two weeks ago...

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A massage from SE,
We have confirmed that the Binding Coil of Bahamut – Turn 5 is continuing to experience issues after the Oct. 15, 2013 update wherein the monster becomes immobilized under certain circumstances. For this reason, until this issue has been addressed, the Binding Coil of Bahamut – Turn 5 will be temporarily unavailable.

Please note that the Binding Coil of Bahamut – Turn 5 is the only instance that will be closed. Players will be free to continue challenging the Binding Coil of Bahamut – Turns 1 through 4.

We are currently hard at work on confirming and implementing the solution for this issue. We will make a follow-up announcement as soon as the date and time for recovery is set.

We deeply apologize for the continued inconvenience and thank you for your patience.

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Today, mentioning a happening of 3 days ago(Saturday)...

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FFXIV: ARR Producer and Director Yoshi-P here.

We're going to make a few adjustments to Turn 5 of the Binding Coil of Bahamut in today's maintenance, and so I'd like to take a moment to go over the details with you all.

But first, I have another important announcement to make. On October 26, 2013 (PDT), a group of daring adventurers on Excalibur has managed to clear all five turns of the Binding Coil!

This is a world-first, and we couldn't be more excited for you. Congratulations on a job well done!!!

Now then, let's take a look at the changes being made to Turn 5.
Adjustments to Twintania
...we will be having maintenance today from 11:00 p.m. (PDT) / 6:00 (GMT) until 2:00 a.m. (PDT) / 9:00 (GMT).

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Am I missing something. If the game is glitched, if it was bugged, how can content be considered a relevant victory and wasn't it closed down?

Normally I would have been rooting for my server but it doesn't make any sense. I thought playing through a glitch would get you banned and the "win" would not count or everything would get rolled-back. Something fishy here.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

Am I missing something. If the game is glitched, if it was bugged, how can content be considered a relevant victory and wasn't it closed down? I thought playing through a glitch would get you banned or the "win" would not count, everything would get rolled-back. Something fishy here.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1476661

Hot Fixes (Oct. 24, 2013)

The following issues were addressed.

- In “The Binding Coil of Bahamut – Turn 5,” enemies would become immobile under certain circumstances.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

Am I missing something. If the game is glitched, if it was bugged, how can content be considered a relevant victory and wasn't it closed down? I thought playing through a glitch would get you banned or the "win" would not count, everything would get rolled-back. Something fishy here.

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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Turn 5 was re-opened last week. Blue Garter were the first to complete Twintania post-reopening. There were some questions about the methods they used to clear the Conflagrations, so Yoshi clarified that it was indeed an intended mechanic.

//EDIT: AlenKale got it ahead of me. The original bug that had caused Twintania to stop using abilities was fixed prior to reopening.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

Am I missing something. If the game is glitched, if it was bugged, how can content be considered a relevant victory and wasn't it closed down? I thought playing through a glitch would get you banned or the "win" would not count, everything would get rolled-back. Something fishy here.

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They fixed the bugs 2 weeks ago. It was only shut down for a few days, it has been non-bugged the past week.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Turn 5 was re-opened last week. Blue Garter were the first to complete Twintania post-reopening. There were some questions about the methods they used to clear the Conflagrations, so Yoshi clarified that it was indeed an intended mechanic.

//EDIT: AlenKale got it ahead of me. The original bug that had caused Twintania to stop using abilities was fixed prior to reopening.

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Lol, sry for playing too much for not taking the time to read the update, not too frequent in the forum as much, I only read about the thing still being bugged(hence the damn continued maint.)
Yeah, I am updated about it but I never read the news on the "re-opening". Thanks though it doesn't matter.

Twister was 50/50 chance you'd die. Coil 4 is hard, because it's hard, requires perfect execution in the last phase when everything drops on your head. Twintania was just annoying as you could do everything "right" but still die because lag. The change had to happen...

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Originally Posted by Noctrin

Twister was 50/50 chance you'd die. Coil 4 is hard, because it's hard, requires perfect execution in the last phase when everything drops on your head. Twintania was just annoying as you could do everything "right" but still die because lag. The change had to happen...

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If you did everything "right" you wouldn't die to Twisters. if you made a mistake, you would die. Twisters we're 100% dodgeable pre-nerf. I don't really know how many times we need to stress this point lol.

I personally dont like the changes. Why nerf Twister now when there is already a twin kill? Now its all abt before and after "the nerf", i dont like that shit. They could have done that earlier. We didnt even had the chance to get through that since we started turn 5 after they reopened it and spent some time on dive bombs. However, i am excited to see what SE will do abt future hard content and world first about these when everybody has the same chance in terms of time (legacy).

i really doubt it will make much difference at all and no one really cares if you can kill her outside world first which is already gone to people who say they put in more than a full time job's worth of effort over the course of 2 months to kill her

twintania is pretty hardcore even if she didn't do twister at all
almost a silly amount even, her difficulty level is like 20x higher than anything else in coil for stuff about on par with what you can easily get without even entering coil

even yoshi says he only expects about 100 people to have cleared her before 2.1, 1 person getting a clear per 15,000 is a damn steep cliff for the games entry level raid content.

Honestly, I didn't expect this fight to be nerfed/changed at all (besides fixing glitches) until 2.1 hit. As far as I understand it, Coil IS a part of the main storyline... so although it is hard now, it will INEVITABLY be made easier once endgame players have a new raid to progress to. This game is very friendly toward casuals, which means it's only a matter of time before this encounter is nerfed enough for casual groups to beat it. I'm assuming it will be adjusted greatly once a new raid is released with a higher iLevel (not Crystal Tower).

I imagine knowing how Twisters work is half the battle. Now that it's been revealed, the fight will be easier for most groups who have the gear/skill to deal with everything else.

I do like that the timing of Twisters will be 'fixed'. A lot of people have issues with mechanics you can't perfectly predict because of lag, latency, and/or congestion. It's forgivable in some fights because ability patterns follow a special order, but less forgiving with Twisters because you literally HAVE to move in the right pattern the second you see the cast bar... If you lag behind, you're dead.

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

If you did everything "right" you wouldn't die to Twisters. if you made a mistake, you would die. Twisters we're 100% dodgeable pre-nerf. I don't really know how many times we need to stress this point lol.

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I guess that's why your kill video shows multiple deaths to them

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Originally Posted by Richard_BG

If you did everything "right" you wouldn't die to Twisters. if you made a mistake, you would die. Twisters we're 100% dodgeable pre-nerf. I don't really know how many times we need to stress this point lol.

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Just out of curiosity.. are you saying that the Twintania encounter is immune to the positional update lag outlined here?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ev-Response%29

Cause the person you quoted was basically saying you could do the mechanic correctly, but because of the issues outlined in the thread I posted, you'd still get hit.. even though on your screen you shouldn't have. We haven't hit Twintania yet, still on Turn 4.. but if there is some super secret thing to get rid of or fix the whole positional update delay so that when I'm out of something on my screen, I don't get hit by it.. I would love to know.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

I guess that's why your kill video shows multiple deaths to them

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I was under the impression that twister deaths were to poor execution by the person dying to them. Mistakes were made, but they still killed it anyways. Working as intended, etc. SE even confirmed that.

I can see having the people targeted by Fireball run into the Conflag is a mechanic of the game - what I don't understand is how its supposed to be legit for a tank to walk into it, leaving the boss pretty much doing nothing for the time the conflag is up.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

I guess that's why your kill video shows multiple deaths to them

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Exactly. Just like in Titan HM, because moves are avoidable, nobody ever dies to them.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

I guess that's why your kill video shows multiple deaths to them

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While this seems like an attempt to be snarky or trollish, I'll happily address it now that the twister cat is out of the bag.

My first death in the video was due to an improper dodge method which I'd been testing for a couple attempts before our kill. It worked for me the first 4 times I did it, and I died the next 3. That third death using that method was the first twister in our kill video. I decided at that point the method was too inconsistent, so I went back to my old proper dodge method and dodged the next two perfectly. The fourth twister I died to because my cure resolved too far into the cast and I didn't move in time. Both of my deaths were due to erroneous dodging.

And for what it's worth, I dodged 24 of 28 tonight before the maintenance nerf. Of the 4 I died to, 3 were from casting too late and one was from improper movement.

So to reiterate: pre-nerf, twister was completely dodgeable - it was just very very very unforgiving.

It begins... Praise the Sun

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Originally Posted by verily

The fourth twister I died to because my cure resolved too far into the cast and I didn't move in time. Both of my deaths were due to erroneous dodging.

And for what it's worth, I dodged 24 of 28 tonight before the maintenance nerf. Of the 4 I died to, 3 were from casting too late and one was from improper movement.

So to reiterate: pre-nerf, twister was completely dodgeable - it was just very very very unforgiving.

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Em....the way I'm reading this is that it's completely dodgeable as long as you weren't doing anything to make the server believe you were in the same place. Meaning...it was a server lag issue those 3 times you died.

Twisters just became the easiest mechanic lmao 100% dodgable.

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Originally Posted by Kiokin

Em....the way I'm reading this is that it's completely dodgeable as long as you weren't doing anything to make the server believe you were in the same place. Meaning...it was a server lag issue those 3 times you died.

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You're reading it the way you want and inserting your own meaning.

People have trouble with position checks for Landslide and Weight of the Land on Titan HM. Does this mean they're not 100% avoidable? Of course they are. The server's poor position checking is no secret to anyone, but there are ways to work around it to dodge every ability. Twisters are (were?) no different. I don't see why we have to keep repeating that it's 100% repeatable, but very very unforgiving- the very same thing Yoshi reiterated, which was the reason for the nerf. After review, he felt it was too stringent.

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Originally Posted by verily

You're reading it the way you want and inserting your own meaning.

People have trouble with position checks for Landslide and Weight of the Land on Titan HM. Does this mean they're not 100% avoidable? Of course they are. The server's poor position checking is no secret to anyone, but there are ways to work around it to dodge every ability. Twisters are (were?) no different. I don't see why we have to keep repeating that it's 100% repeatable, but very very unforgiving- the very same thing Yoshi reiterated, which was the reason for the nerf. After review, he felt it was too stringent.

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I guess the issue I have is the fact you have to work around the server's position checking. It should be as simple as moving out of the badness so you don't get hit by it, not having to go out of your way to do (or not do) other things to make sure the server recognizes that you aren't where you aren't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

So what is the best method to dodge it?

I'm sure anything is 100% dodgeable if you just leave out all the times you didn't dodge it.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

I'm sure anything is 100% dodgeable if you just leave out all the times you didn't dodge it.

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This logic is ridiculous. Where do you even come up with this junk?

I'm 100% capable of getting to work on time every day. If I wake up late or take a detour on the drive there and I don't make it in time, or I drive too slowly, or I drive too quickly and get pulled over for speeding- that doesn't mean I'm not 100% capable of getting to work on time. Being late was my own fault. If you fully possess the ability to do something but don't do it, then you simply didn't do it. You still fully possess the ability to.

Stop making excuses.

Vera, I think their point is that, if it was 100% dodgeable, you wouldn't be getting hit those times your cures were going off too late. There was obviously an instance where you just couldn't get out of it, which means it's not really 100% dodgeable.

Unless I misunderstood?

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Originally Posted by verily

Stop making excuses.

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I'm not saying I disagree with you, I actually agree with you. However, you used a really bad analogy. Tons of things can happen on the way to work that would make you late that are not within your control. Flat tire? Car hits YOU? None of which is your own fault or within your control.

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Originally Posted by Ceol

Vera, I think their point is that, if it was 100% dodgeable, you wouldn't be getting hit those times your cures were going off too late. There was obviously an instance where you just couldn't get out of it, which means it's not really 100% dodgeable.

Unless I misunderstood?

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Of course it's 100% dodgeable. It's a player mistake if s/he casts too long before moving.

Don't use percentages for these kind of things since it implies that something is absolute when clearly nothing is infallible.

The main point here is that the mechanics of Twister itself has been solved and a method for defeating it has been developed. The success rate, on the other hand, is entirely dependent on how well the method is executed, which can be affected by other factors outside of the Twister mechanic, including player mistakes or lag.

The current mechanic is deemed to be too harsh in the sense that it leaves extremely little margin for error due to the way the action is processed on the server side, which is probably not what SE had originally intended. In the meantime, another mechanic was found to be exploitable for unintended benefits. So the devs are simply fixing both to bring the fight closer to what they had originally envisioned. Whether this ultimately makes the fight easier or not is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by verily

Stop making excuses.

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Congratulations on being part of the group that managed to do this and all, but that does not give you permission to be a raging dick to people.

You're no better than anyone on this forum as a person simply because you were part of a team that killed a boss in FFXIV: A Realm Reborn, mkay?

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Originally Posted by verily

This logic is ridiculous. Where do you even come up with this junk?

I'm 100% capable of getting to work on time every day. If I wake up late or take a detour on the drive there and I don't make it in time, or I drive too slowly, or I drive too quickly and get pulled over for speeding- that doesn't mean I'm not 100% capable of getting to work on time. Being late was my own fault. If you fully possess the ability to do something but don't do it, then you simply didn't do it. You still fully possess the ability to.

Stop making excuses.

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I could say the same thing for you. Stop making excuses for SE's poor netcode. Even they think it was a problem hence them changing it.

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Originally Posted by Vire

Even they think it was a problem hence them changing it.

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Yeah, the problem being that too many people aren't good enough to get it right consistently, and instead place the blame on anything but their execution.

I always took their saying of 90% dodge rate as meaning that 90% of the time, they dodge properly, the other 10% they personally mess up (improper movement, too slow, doing something else) causing failure. As an example, a Basketball player can theoretically make a free throw 100% of the time but he doesn't. Why? Because he personally messes up every time he misses.

That said, it's still possible one of the reasons for adjusting Twisters is cause it was tuned to tightly while not taking server lag into consideration. However, the fact some of the Turn 5 clearers are EU (and had 100% dodge rate) means it's tuned properly for the difficulty SE desired initially.