Nerf FATEs, but don't

As it currently stands FATE's offer by far the quickest and at the same time easiest way to level a DoW/DoM class to 50. While some players might prefer to run dungeons, camp monsters or do battle leves, FATEs eclipse all of these by such a wide margin in efficiency that many players feel forced to do them. So I propose:

Keep FATE exp exactly the same as it is now, but lower the FATE spawn rate to 25% of what they do currently. This will still encourage players to complete FATEs as they pop, but make it less advantageous to have 100+ people standing around waiting for them to pop and marathon racing from one to the next.

At the same time, increase mob base exp 10-20% to compensate and increase rewards for dungeon completions and leves in terms of experience.

Are FATEs breaking your game or is this another "Stop liking what I don't like" thread? I believe SE stated that FATEs are working as intended (including the Northern Thanalan chain).

I almost wish that some fates wouldn't spawn if the zone was overcrowded. Why would the Lambs of Dalamud even show up if there were 50 adventurers standing around waiting for them?

I personally believe that fates should respawn MUCH slower.

I always get a chuckle arriving in a hub and seeing 50 bads just sitting around waiting for fates to pop because they're not competent or intelligent enough to do anything else.

By the same fashion, buff exp from dungeons and give an accumulative exp bonus for waiting in the duty finder. That way the easy mode dps'ers can stop whining about waiting.

Fates are in the game for several reason....VARIETY

If you dont like fates you have the choice not to partake in them.

The best thing for them to do is add FATES to our allowances for leves. Once your leve/fate allowances have been exhausted then you can no longer gain experience through them.

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Originally Posted by Ketsufuma

Fates are in the game for several reason....VARIETY

If you dont like fates you have the choice not to partake in them.

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Wow I didn't say to remove FATEs, I said to decrease their spawn times. I actually do greatly enjoy FATEs and their rewards. You know what I dislike? Standing around Northern Thanalan, seeing a FATE pop, running there with 150 people, mash target/spam attack hoping to hit something, and seeing it complete in less than 10 seconds and everyone mount up and wait to do it again. FATE's are great fun while leveling and working with a group of random people to complete. If the spawn times were less, this would discourage people from literally ONLY doing that, which would make FATEs as a whole more enjoyable.

My question is: How are FATEs generating a negative experience? If you prefer dungeons, go ahead, if you prefer mobs, go ahead, if you prefer leves, go ahead. Something has to be the most efficient. Personally, I'm thankful I am not forced to wait for days in queues so I can get XP from dungeons. The trade-off is this: Dungeons drop loot.

Increase dungeon exp by 100-150%

Or we could always play the game as it is and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing?

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Originally Posted by Ketsufuma

Fates are in the game for several reason....VARIETY

If you dont like fates you have the choice not to partake in them.

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That's not several reasons. That's one reason. And it's a particularly flawed reason given the fact that any "variety" that may be evident in these FATEs is moot when you have dozens of players steamrolling them down in a matter of minutes. Not to mention that the only real variety is in the skin of the mob that need to be killed in each FATE.

Anyways, I would say that FATE xp is fine as it is, but it would be nice to see other areas of the game brought in line with them so that there would no longer be just one far superior means to leveling.

That would be true variety.

Punishing players is stupid.

Make other forms of leveling more rewarding and competitive with the FATE grinds, e.g. make dungeons give more xp/hour and increase the XP given by leves.

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Originally Posted by Sinth

My question is: How are FATEs generating a negative experience?

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It can, actually. If you go into, say, Brayflox with a tank who leveled entirely thru FATEs and is only now tanking their first dungeon, it will negatively effect everyone else in the party.

There is one player on my server who is always in South Shroud doing FATEs. Always. They never leave. They don't even seem to care what their level is. They were doing the Robber Goblin FATE today as a level 20 ACN. That FATE is, I believe, level 28 or 29. They died twice at least that I saw. They can't even run FATEs properly, I've no faith they could run a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

It can, actually. If you go into, say, Brayflox with a tank who leveled entirely thru FATEs and is only now tanking their first dungeon, it will negatively effect everyone else in the party.

There is one player on my server who is always in South Shroud doing FATEs. Always. They never leave. They don't even seem to care what their level is. They were doing the Robber Goblin FATE today as a level 20 ACN. That FATE is, I believe, level 28 or 29. They died twice at least that I saw. They can't even run FATEs properly, I've no faith they could run a dungeon.

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So FATEs are providing a negative game experience because bad players are bad? Perfect logic.

By your logic, players who do nothing but leves to level would be the same. So, we should nerf leves? So we should also do away with open world mob farming. So we should restrict leveling to strictly dungeon instances?

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Originally Posted by Sinth

So FATEs are providing a negative game experience because bad players are bad? Perfect logic.

By your logic, players who do nothing but leves to level would be the same. So, we should nerf leves? So we should also do away with open world mob farming. So we should restrict leveling to strictly dungeon instances?

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Acutally by his logic he is totally correct. These players may not of been so bad and they ran some instaces, and learned the actual mechanics of their class. Instead of going into fates and spamming one or 2 buttons which happen usually to be mostly aoe type skills for most classes or just heals. The fact that MOST fates are a run in and spam as much dmg or heals as you can doesn't help a player learn the base mechanics of how to use their class. Also on the fact of leves. Leves are capped so you couldn't really level up soley on leves due to the fact that they are capped.

People worry way too much about what others do.

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Originally Posted by Ketsufuma

Fates are in the game for several reason....VARIETY

If you dont like fates you have the choice not to partake in them.

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I know right? Like, do it or dont, why whine?

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Originally Posted by Sinth

So FATEs are providing a negative game experience because bad players are bad? Perfect logic.

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#1 No.

#2 FATEs do nothing to teach party dynamics so anyone who jumps from one to another is unprepared.

#3 It attracts and enables laziness.

How about this? As a test, shout on your server for a level 50 tank who leveled entirely thru FATES. Ask him to come tank HM Garuda for you. Let us all know how it turns out.

Please stop asking to nerf FATE, just ask to buff dungeons.
Otherwise players and SE will only comment on the FATE nerf (and say NO), then ignore the dungeon exp buff, which is what ppl really want.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

#1 No.

#2 FATEs do nothing to teach party dynamics so anyone who jumps from one to another is unprepared.

#3 It attracts and enables laziness.

How about this? As a test, shout on your server for a level 50 tank who leveled entirely thru FATES. Ask him to come tank HM Garuda for you. Let us all know how it turns out.

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No thanks, I have a FC. Perhaps the people complaining about unskilled players should join one. Also, every single way you can level in FFXIV excludes teaching party dynamics with the exception of Dungeon Instances. So again, where is the logic in "FATEs are bad mmkay?". You either do away with people leveling in every way designed except dungeon instances or you can just bite your pillow and cry.

This whole thread is assinine.

I agree with lowering the fate spawn time. I've been saying this since day 1. You can't run around the world without tripping over a FATE and the inevitable mass of players that crawl after it.

I like how this all started by saying let fates be as useful as they are now and make other things rewarding and everyone is as mad as if he said remove them. XD too funny!

All I'd like is for there to be more options after you already have a level 50 job.
Like give the Leves a 50% xp bonus too, and incrase the dungeon XP.
As it is now, if you did all the quests you're only useful option is doing FATE's.
Reducting the spawn timer wont help, people will still do FATE's, since the spawn timers appear to be random for most of them, people won't be doing other things as they would be affraid to miss the FATE spawn.

All in all, I think boosting the XP for other things would be better, rather than reducing FATE's.

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Originally Posted by Sinth

No thanks, I have a FC. Perhaps the people complaining about unskilled players should join one. Also, every single way you can level in FFXIV excludes teaching party dynamics with the exception of Dungeon Instances. So again, where is the logic in "FATEs are bad mmkay?". You either do away with people leveling in every way designed except dungeon instances or you can just bite your pillow and cry.

This whole thread is assinine.

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Please tell me how a FATE something you go in and spam maybe one or 2 skills teach you party dynamics. Please explain that one to me, because I truely want to know.

I don't necessarily think FATES should be nerfed, but I would like the other leveling options to be buffed to be brought in line with them.

I would say I think leveling from 1-50 should take longer cause it does seem extremely fast at the moment (cause in that sense I guess I would like to see fates lowered to dungeons/levequests, but I'd likely get flamed away.

Bottom line, I want the other options to be equal, or at least relatively close. Until then, we don't really have what I would consider "true" variety when picking how to level in a timely fashion. I think they are buffing dungeon exp and such in 2.1 though. So, another sit and wait time.

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Originally Posted by LovelessG

Please tell me how a FATE something you go in and spam maybe one or 2 skills teach you party dynamics. Please explain that one to me, because I truely want to know.

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He said EXclude, not INclude.

Anyway, this thread is pointless. Bad players will be bad, good players will be good, regardless of fates or not. Don't believe me? Try playing WoT. You see a guy with at least 10k fights who has no idea whatsoever about how the game works every match. If 10k matches in a game aren't enough to teach a person about a game, running a bunch of dungeons definitely won't cut it.

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Originally Posted by LovelessG

Please tell me how a FATE something you go in and spam maybe one or 2 skills teach you party dynamics. Please explain that one to me, because I truely want to know.

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I learnt how to play Black Mage effeintly with FATEs, not all FATEs are just tagging mobs an example is Go, Go, Gorgimera which takes a lot of communication if you want to down it without people dying rapidly.
I've learnt more from FATEs then I have doing dungeons. No one quits FATE parties if you make a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

#2 FATEs do nothing to teach party dynamics so anyone who jumps from one to another is unprepared.

How about this? As a test, shout on your server for a level 50 tank who leveled entirely thru FATES. Ask him to come tank HM Garuda for you. Let us all know how it turns out.

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How about this, do the same shout for someone who leveled entirely through quests, I bet they still fail tank. Really the only way a tank will be manage tanking Garuda is if they leveled with quite a few dungeon runs. Or, the other type of tank that would manage is A GOOD PLAYER, who would manage to tank regardless of how they leveled.

I leveled my WHM through fates, when I went into AK I didn't tab spam aero or run into packs to cast holy. I looked at a guide for each dungeon, or a video of each primal fight, and that was enough. I didn't need to heal copperbell mines to figure out what to do.

Leveling slower doesn't "teach people party dynamics", it just increases the grind for everyone else. Does nobody remember the 4k/hour parties of FFXI? Tales of level 75 full AF DRK consistently whiffing on EXP mobs? Anyone?

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Originally Posted by Dochas

How about this, do the same shout for someone who leveled entirely through quests, I bet they still fail tank. Really the only way a tank will be manage tanking Garuda is if they leveled with quite a few dungeon runs. Or, the other type of tank that would manage is A GOOD PLAYER, who would manage to tank regardless of how they leveled.

I leveled my WHM through fates, when I went into AK I didn't tab spam aero or run into packs to cast holy. I looked at a guide for each dungeon, or a video of each primal fight, and that was enough. I didn't need to heal copperbell mines to figure out what to do.

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So much this..

Bad players will be bad. Fates had nothing to do some someone being an idiot, and that is the truth. I leveled my first class through quests and story, it was a Dragoon. Every other class was leveled through fates (MRD, PLD, SCH, WHM) I can still heal effectively and tank better than most people I run titan and coil with.

I have to say I like fates but, I ran a dungeon the other day for the first time as smn (lower dungeon with some friends.) I noticed I knew very little about my job mechanics. So yes while fates are the fastest and easiest way to level a job do yourselves a favor and run dungeons if only the lower ones so you can practice in a party setting. I know most join parties in fates but honestly they just aren't as good as actual dungeon parties since all fate parties do is steam roll though the mobs.

I agree with the OP. Increase fate spawns and remove dungeons.

I like FATEs. I think they should nerf them. The swarm of players rushing them makes them wholly uninteresting. I doubt most people spamming FATEs are enjoying them either; they just want to level the fastest way there is.

It's already pretty stupid that people can get max level in a week or less. They should bring FATE xp to be more in line with leves and dungeons, not bring dungeons and leves xp up to match the FATE.

Since the first days of beta, I had always hoped that the xp gain was just accelerated so testers could give feedback on the higher level stuff on short testing schedules. Sadly, I was disappointed. I wish leveling was a lot slower than it is. Not anywhere near FFXI's drudgery, but significantly longer than a week.

I actually love FATEs and it's up to the individuals how they use 'em. I'm not going to lecture how you should play your game.

OP, if you really wanted to suggest change, why didn't you suggest it through another forum or contact them through customer service? It's probably going to receive a lot more critique here than it will there it would probably go ignored. Not everyone plays Final Fantasy the same way. I love FATEs, it's a lot faster to get seals than it used to in 1.0. The problem I think with FATEs is, it's "too weak". I think they should add puzzles or strategies to beat the NMs.

Some low level FATEs are what they are, easy way to get exp and seals which is great.

Leveling exclusively via fates doesn't necessarily make a player bad, but it sure doesn't help. There's some people who can fate grind a job to 50 then instantly go do titan. Others might have quested to 50 and still have no clue what to do. There's even some who might have bumbled through some dungeons and be clueless by 50. But that's a lot less likely.

I don't think anyone really enjoys the fate experience, so if they just made dungeons a decently viable way of leveling that gave exp equal to fates, I think most people would run dungeons. While queued they could still go do fates so not wait around bored.

heres another idea, how about reducing fates xp alltogether...

Give dungeons a massive xp buff as well as leves.

Fates, being the most boring, mindless and utterly braindead activity ive ever experienced in any mmo, should be abolished alltogether.

Why fates? Gw2 questing worked really well, why not copy of that.Reset each quest for each class you have.

Its not rocket science, square seem to think it is.

tell me, when theres 40 ppl running from fate to fate, then actually trying to compete in it ( fates should have an epilepsy warning ), im questioning WTF was sqeenix thinking when they designed these things..

Dungeons, that are harder content, are less of a reward then a braindead ,zerging activity!!!!! What are mmos coming too....

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Originally Posted by SIXTYONESIX

I like FATEs. I think they should nerf them. The swarm of players rushing them makes them wholly uninteresting. I doubt most people spamming FATEs are enjoying them either; they just want to level the fastest way there is.

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I agree.

/10 char

Dungeons definitely need a buff - I don't enjoy FATE grinding SCH but when I get 20,000+ XP for two minutes work anything else is just a waste of time. I don't need to grind dungeons for equipment either, I've got a (almost complete) Darklight healer set waiting for me once I hit 50.

One thing I'd *really*like to see (assuming it's not already in game - I certainly can't find it) is for NPC quests to show you the quest *level* as well as the quest *name* on the map - as far as I can see you can't find out until you start talking to them, so I've got no idea if I'm going to end up with a level 5 task that's not worth doing or a level 40 one I can't even accept until I'm right in front of them.

You could decrease the appearance and lower the exp and I bet everyone would still FATE because it's a 0 effort way to gain experience.

People defending fates as a good system will never see eye to eye with me, I think to play a MMO you should have to do that, play the game not tab target and smash your closest AOE skill button.

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Originally Posted by Dochas

How about this, do the same shout for someone who leveled entirely through quests

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Only quests? So they're level is, what, 15? I'd be okay with that.