Casting Succor before battle...

Am I missing something here? I see a lot of other SCH cast succor before the fight even starts. As I understand it, succor only mitigates an amount of damage equal to the amount of HP that was healed. So, by casting succor before battle when everyone is at max health, the shield prevents 0 damage. Am I correct in this? Anytime I see another SCH cast succor before battle I would always chuckle to myself thinking that the other player did not understand the spell mechanics, but maybe I'm wrong after all? Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Einhandr

Am I missing something here? I see a lot of other SCH cast succor before the fight even starts. As I understand it, succor only mitigates an amount of damage equal to the amount of HP that was healed. So, by casting succor before battle when everyone is at max health, the shield prevents 0 damage. Am I correct in this? Anytime I see another SCH cast succor before battle I would always chuckle to myself thinking that the other player did not understand the spell mechanics, but maybe I'm wrong after all? Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

---

Shield will match heal strength regardless of targets health. So, yes, preshielding is doing it right.

PS - Succor doesn't get double shields on crit, that is unique to Adlo.

The shield usually doesn't last long enough to do anything, but there have been a few occasions when I've used succor before the fight. Mostly for ifrit if it's not the most organized group, to prevent a wipe when someone pulls aggro by attacking too hard, too soon. Most of the time it's pointless, though. The party shouldn't be taking damage that early in the fight. A preemptive shield on the tank can be handy if you don't have stoneskin, though.

I tend to use succor before battle "just because," even if it doesn't always do anything. I find my mana regens fast enough before combat that it essentially costs me nothing to have succor up before the fight, so I figure I might as well.

Sometimes, I also imagine it makes the tank run to start the fight a little faster, since he sees his buff fading. Could be my imagination, though.

Just like with adlo, it doesn't matter how much hp the target has when cast, it matters how much the spell hit for (the green number). So you can raise people's max eph by casting succor on a full hp target.

A cast before battle is free owing to the out of combat regen rate. Sure, its not much, but its free. Why not use it? 30 seconds is pretty long, on Titan it'll last to the first stomp.

Imo, adlo is even more useful, as its that much more hp onthe tank before you have to cast. Esepcially in speed runs I'll often swiftcast a SS or adlo on the move (depending on if tanks hp is high enough to make my ss or adlo more potent assuming no crit) to give myself those few seconds to get in postion and let tank seal.

Like stoneskin or any other shield, I do it before a fight -just because. Why not? Mana will regen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alu79

Shield will match heal strength regardless of targets health. So, yes, preshielding is doing it right.

PS - Succor doesn't get double shields on crit, that is unique to Adlo.

---

This. Not usually a fan of Succor, but I certainly Adloquiem my tank before they waltz into a pull.

Quote:

---

PS - Succor doesn't get double shields on crit, that is unique to Adlo.

---

Which doesn't make any sense to me, because using Succor gives you the Adlo buff..

I always Succor before pull at "Demon Wall" boss. :D
Succor make me feel like I'm playing easy mode of Demon Wall boss.

_______________

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by peaches

Which doesn't make any sense to me, because using Succor gives you the Adlo buff..

---

I think he didn't mean "Double Buff" but double amount of HP of the shield.

btw
Yes, it is the same buff but different amount of shield.

Aldo 300 healing potency = 300 potency shield
Succor 150 potency = 150 potency shield
(actually the HP of the shield will be the same as the amount healed (also count overhealing)

And both skills will replace the previous shield. (am I right? not 100% sure)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoBoz

I always Succor before pull at "Demon Wall" boss. :D
Succor make me feel like I'm playing easy mode of Demon Wall boss.

_______________



I think he didn't mean "Double Buff" but double amount of HP of the shield.

btw
Yes, it is the same buff but different amount of shield.

Aldo 300 healing potency = 300 potency shield
Succor 150 potency = 150 potency shield
(actually the HP of the shield will be the same as the amount healed (also count overhealing)

And both skills will replace the previous shield. (am I right? not 100% sure)

---

Succor will bubble for the exact amount that it healed for, when it crits, the shield will still only match strength of the heal. 500heal/500shield - 1k crit heal/1k shield.
Adlo will bubble for the exact amount healed for -unless- you crit, then the shield will also crit meaning that the shield will be DOUBLE the strength of the crit heal. 500 heal/500 shield - 1k crit heal/2k crit shield.

Succor will never over write Adlo. Shields will never over write a stronger shield. Shields will never stack. Overhealing has no effect on shield power. Healing a full health target will still give them a shield for whatever the heal was even tho they were not healed.
Preshielding tank with Adlo and group with Succor is doing it right~

Succor is the lazy person's pre-shielding.
It's a small shield, but the mp will regen anyway.

I always cast it before battle. My MP will heal, plus its better to be safe than sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alu79

Succor will bubble for the exact amount that it healed for, when it crits, the shield will still only match strength of the heal. 500heal/500shield - 1k crit heal/1k shield.
Adlo will bubble for the exact amount healed for -unless- you crit, then the shield will also crit meaning that the shield will be DOUBLE the strength of the crit heal. 500 heal/500 shield - 1k crit heal/2k crit shield.

Succor will never over write Adlo. Shields will never over write a stronger shield.

---

Thx for correcting me :cool:

Now I don't have to worry about shield will overwriting each other. (Succor/Aldo)
and if it's true that Aldo crit will x4 shield's hp, I'll looking forward to stack Crit in my gear. :D
So Mind > Crit > Deter/Spell Speed/Piety, right?

but how about if Aldo shield had 1k hp but it droped to 100hp, will new Aldo cast or Succor Shield replace the 100hp Shield?

ps.hate to 1000 character per post restriction, but why I feel that other ppl's posts have more than 1000char ???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoBoz

Thx for correcting me :cool:

Now I don't have to worry about shield will overwriting each other. (Succor/Aldo)
and if it's true that Aldo crit will x4 shield's hp, I'll looking forward to stack Crit in my gear. :D
So Mind > Crit > Deter/Spell Speed/Piety, right?

but how about if Aldo shield had 1k hp but it droped to 100hp, will new Aldo cast or Succor Shield replace the 100hp Shield?

ps.hate to 1000 character per post restriction, but why I feel that other ppl's posts have more than 1000char ???

---

Edit lets you ignore the character cap.

Clarification on what a few of you seem to miss.

When you heal, they WILL be healed for that much. The green number will state how much they are healed for, and that number corresponds to the strength of the shield.

When they are at 100% HP, you STILL heal them for the same amount, the amount of HP they RECOVER is 0. Your EFFECTIVE HEALING is the amount that they recover (Efficiency = effective/total), and does not actually affect the strength of the shield.

Succor, tank at 50% HP.
Heal = 300. HP restored = 300. Shield = 300.

Succor, tank at 100% HP.
Heal = 300. HP restored = 0. Shield = 300.

Succor generates enmity, right? So if a PLD pulls a boss with shieldlob from distance (which generates a little enmity), in my opinion and experience, 'succor' generates more enmity than 'shieldlob', whiping the group.

Or in other words - overhealing counts 100% to actual hp healed when it comes to the adlo/succor shields.
That is the reason precasting succor is a good idea.

It only creates enmity when it hits - not when the shield gets used up.

thanks, that's clear to me now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoBoz

Thx for correcting me :cool:

Now I don't have to worry about shield will overwriting each other. (Succor/Aldo)
and if it's true that Aldo crit will x4 shield's hp, I'll looking forward to stack Crit in my gear. :D
So Mind > Crit > Deter/Spell Speed/Piety, right?

but how about if Aldo shield had 1k hp but it droped to 100hp, will new Aldo cast or Succor Shield replace the 100hp Shield?

ps.hate to 1000 character per post restriction, but why I feel that other ppl's posts have more than 1000char ???

---

The stronger shield overwrites the weak shield. Succor can overwrite aqo but it rarly happens (equipped sch crits an succ over an unequipped sch´s aqo)
As far as I recognized it the base shielding value depends which will overwrite and which not. e.g. I´ve seen noncrits overwrite noncrits if the heal was higher. Due to this crits will allmost allways overwrite noncrits.

Crits are at a 1.5 multiplicator so crit aquo shields are at 3x higher not 4 times.

Your statevaluation seems to be about right allthough I (personally) rate piety higher.

It's a much better idea to Adloquium the main tank before the pull. There are few fights where the party will take damage before the tank does. There are, however, plenty of fights where a tank may be cleaved for large damage before everyone is in position. Having to drop a big cure on a tank who hasn't completed their full enmity combo can be very bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yamete

Succor generates enmity, right? So if a PLD pulls a boss with shieldlob from distance (which generates a little enmity), in my opinion and experience, 'succor' generates more enmity than 'shieldlob', whiping the group.

---

This is very important. Succor will generate enmity equivalent to 150 potency times the number of party members, while Adloquium is only 300 potency on one target. So, if you happen to land a Succor after the pull (which has happened more times than I can count), you may be in for the exact kind of pain you were trying to prevent. Adloquium, on the other hand, will generate between half to a quarter of the enmity that Succor will.

Well if anyone gets hit within the first half minute of the fight, you get some free mitigation; why not?

The way I see it though; once everyone has Stoneskin and Succor has been cast, it shows that both of your healers are present and ready. Succor is just another way of saying "Pull."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashira

Succor is just another way of saying "Pull."

---

This.... all day this. And then the tank waits 25 seconds before shield lobbing right as everyone's buff wears off *sigh*

Exactly!! Note to Tanks: Succor is the universal symbol for pull!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YuriRamona

It's a much better idea to Adloquium the main tank before the pull. There are few fights where the party will take damage before the tank does. There are, however, plenty of fights where a tank may be cleaved for large damage before everyone is in position. Having to drop a big cure on a tank who hasn't completed their full enmity combo can be very bad.

This is very important. Succor will generate enmity equivalent to 150 potency times the number of party members, while Adloquium is only 300 potency on one target. So, if you happen to land a Succor after the pull (which has happened more times than I can count), you may be in for the exact kind of pain you were trying to prevent. Adloquium, on the other hand, will generate between half to a quarter of the enmity that Succor will.

---

If you cast Succor before the tank pulls, there is no enmity. If you're casting Succor AS the tank pulls, you're doing it wrong.

I Succor entire group and then Adloquium the pulling tank, to overwrite the weaker Succor shield. This is done before any enemies are engaged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by erasure25

Exactly!! Note to Tanks: Succor is the universal symbol for pull!

---

It happened plenty of times that a SCH casted succor, when the group wasn't ready.. and yes, as MT I ran into the fight, hearing people scream WAAAIITTTT..
pretty hilarious.. so, is this "succor the universal symbol for pull" reliable? I don't think so :-P

I do prefer a ready check, just like in WOW

doesn't hurt and it's quick. It's saved me and my party a few times when the tank makes a questionable pull.. was in CT the other night and the tank, for whatever reason, pulled to and tanked KB at the entrance..where most people were standing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ymbryne

If you cast Succor before the tank pulls, there is no enmity. If you're casting Succor AS the tank pulls, you're doing it wrong.

I Succor entire group and then Adloquium the pulling tank, to overwrite the weaker Succor shield. This is done before any enemies are engaged.

---

Even with VoIP, it is possible to cast too late before a pull begins.

Most players are playing with PUG combos of tanks and healers. I've yet to encounter a PUG tank who gives proper warning (about 10 seconds) before a pull or uses a macro to alert the SCH to pre-shield.

In this instance, if you are not familiar with the tank, I would recommend skipping the Succor (which, as I've mentioned, is pretty much useless) and going straight to the Adloquium.

If your Succor resolves after the pull, then you will pull substantial enmity and the tank will have a fairly weak shield on them. If you cast Adloquium and it resolves after the pull, then it's much more likely the tank can regain hate with a secondary Shield Lob / Tomahawk.

Obviously, if you're doing it right and coordinating pulls properly, you would Succor then Adloquium, and your BLM/SMN will Eye for an Eye as well. But a vast majority of the player base does not enjoy that kind of coordination, so slimming down your pre-pull sequence to Adloquium is recommended.

The only fight where I cast succor before a pull right now is at Garuda HM. This is because she frictions a random team member before the shield wears off. I've noticed that stoneskin + succor shield can mitigate practically all the damage from that first friction which means that instead of trying to heal those who were injured, I can just continue adding some DPS on Garuda until her first jump, whereby I succor again to mitigate more damage from her second friction.

I haven't really seem another fight where there's party wide damage within the first few seconds of the fight though. I mainly just adlo the MT to buy me a few seconds to get a shadowflare down for it's slow effect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

I haven't really seem another fight where there's party wide damage within the first few seconds of the fight though. I mainly just adlo the MT to buy me a few seconds to get a shadowflare down for it's slow effect.

---

Titan EX, Tumult is within 30 seconds of the pull.

i use succor and fey covenant before pulling, mitigates a little the damage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by erasure25

Exactly!! Note to Tanks: Succor is the universal symbol for pull!

---

Its the green light to start driving.

Slightly off topic but it annoys me a bit when I adlo the MT and it crits but instead of pulling immediately, chooses to spend the time standing around for another sign to go and then goes when there's 5 seconds left on the shield. I want to facepalm because he's just wasted my 2k+ shield. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

Slightly off topic but it annoys me a bit when I adlo the MT and it crits but instead of pulling immediately, chooses to spend the time standing around for another sign to go and then goes when there's 5 seconds left on the shield. I want to facepalm because he's just wasted my 2k+ shield. :(

---

I feel your pain...but it is a trend

- Tank : "Let's do this!" runs to boss without protect, stoneskin, adlo and even sometimes the tanking stance
or waiting the shield to be at 1s...

At least when in FC we can laugh about it :D

Just like many have said it before, I cast adol on the tanks and then succor on the group because to them green = go. xD

it works even if u r with full health, the shield is based on the amount that says when u cast it, if u restore 700hp but the tank only needed like 200hp to full health, the shield base is 700 adlo will mitigate like 690-700 damage, same for succor