8 mans pointless now

ok so you have made 4 mans give the same amount of philosophy as the 8mans... why would ANYONE ever do an 8 man again? should have bumped philosophy up in prae/cast..

leave it where there are no mythology... but bump up the philosophy tombstone amount.. if not why both doing them? there just isn't a reason to now... in wp you have a chance at the relic req weapons so that's a decent cash source and then ak gives gear... why do 8mans at all anymore?

the 8 man dungeons are faster.

Because I would not want to do AK with some of the window lickers I see in CM....

They are story quest related 8 mans I doubt you were meant to farm them. On the other hand if you really want to do 8 mans you can farm Titan and Garuda for decent mythos now.

I don't think castrum is faster than wp and you get as I said before a chance at the weapon drops from wp why wouldn't you go there instead? not really.. garuda is a good source of tombs if you have a solid premade otherwise its not at all viable.. I still stand by what I said.. there is no reason to do the 8mans anymore.. I prefer the 8mans cause I think more ppl = more fun. more can go wrong and there is a better potential for funny stuff to happen..

It's just nice to have some more options.

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Originally Posted by melisande

the 8 man dungeons are faster.

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With a bad group, sure.

I think the whole point of what they did is to get people to STOP farming CM and Prae. They are story dungeons and should stay that way. I personally prefer 4 man content as a Tank. I like being the only tank in the dungeon :D

As for 8-man content. I think the tombs on CM and Prae should stay where they are. If anything they should release a new dungeon that is 8-man (maybe ilevel 65 gear) that drops both philo and myth tombs.

People will still do the 8-mans when they cap out on Myth Tomes in AK. Doing AK 8 times a week is enough for me, I want a change of scenery.

I believe the intention was to reduce the pressure placed on CM/Prae, because those dungeons are really more about storyline. I guess they will still be viable for token grinding, but probably much less popular. That should improve the quality of the experience for players who are hitting CM/Prae for the first time. Like, they might be allowed to experience actual gameplay and stuff.

They could add Stone Vigil, Dzeamel Darkhold and Aurum Vale to the mix to reduce more pressure on everyone end up farming 2 dungeons (more like three now that WP also become quite good option). We need more variety of grinding tomes. The grinding is fine, that's what the game is all about unfortunately, grind for tomes for gears. It would be nice to have at least more options to grind so that you can grind 4-7 dungeons a day without having to repeat the same dungeons in a day. Let's face it you will have to do the same 7 everyday, just not 2 dungeons x 400 to complete jobs for tank, healer, close range dd, ranged attacker dd.

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Originally Posted by melisande

the 8 man dungeons are faster.

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Interesting how CM or Prae faster than AK :O

I totally agree with you luvbunny. As my FC members love running many different dungeons for the fun of it I think variety would bring a bit more enjoyment to the grind. Just my two cents.

Here's a crazy concept, so try to stick with me. Maybe people will run the 8 man content because...they enjoy the content. It's not all about farming.

ok if any of you believe that they want you to stop doing any dungeons for any reason that's wrong. they added / bumped tombstone drops amounts to get people to do the other dungeons as to relieve pressures on ak. ive never had a que for any dungeon cept ak. and if you continue doing 8mans over wanderers palace then im assuming u have never done it because its faster and easier and gives the same amount of tombestones now.. there is literally no reason to do 8 mans anymore.. I believe they should add 50 more philosophy to prae/castrum it isn't enough to make people stop doing the 4mans and its an alternative to when you finish mythology farm for the week..

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Originally Posted by melisande

the 8 man dungeons are faster.

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CM only takes about 10 minutes less than AK with a good group and you lose out on the 40 mythology. Nobody in their right mind would do CM instead of AK now unless they're already capped in mythology. The only nice thing about CM is that even if you get a bad group it's still doable in 30-40 minutes max whereas AK can take upwards of an hr with a bad group.

I think SE should try actually doing a bit of math and find a threshold where the reward/time sunk on average it the same.

This game is going down hill very fast. Now you can get Myth tombs from WP as well..... I dont care that players can buy a full set of ilvl 70 in about 3 days of playing.. But giving out Myth tombs from WP, and even AK is a huge mistake. There is no reason anyone should be rewarded ilvl 90 gear from completing lvl 50, and 60 content. No one should be wearing even a single piece of Ilvl 90 before running Coil... Much less have half a set.

The way you gear up in this game is anti game... You are forcing ppl to do trivial content and get significant rewards for it. First you are going to burn out your players by making them repeat content as much as you do, then you will trivialize the upcoming content by giving them too powerful rewards for doing almost nothing.

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Originally Posted by ntall1

This game is going down hill very fast. Now you can get Myth tombs from WP as well..... I dont care that players can buy a full set of ilvl 70 in about 3 days of playing.. But giving out Myth tombs from WP, and even AK is a huge mistake. There is no reason anyone should be rewarded ilvl 90 gear from completing lvl 50, and 60 content. No one should be wearing even a single piece of Ilvl 90 before running Coil... Much less have half a set. * snip *

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You do realize it takes at least 2 weeks to get the cheapest ilvl 90 upgrade right from Mytho? ( Not including cortana relic. )

3 weeks to get just the chest.

By the time you get even half AF2 gear, Crystal Tower will be out already with, what, ilvl 80 and its duty finder able. AF from Mytho is nothing but a time sink, and you want it to take EVEN LONGER from getting mytho only from coil then? Haaaaahaaaa.

Why does everyone keep saying tomb and not tome? Is it really that hard to read?

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Originally Posted by aswedishtiger

Why does everyone keep saying tomb and not tome? Is it really that hard to read?

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You mean we're not graverobbers?

How are 8man dungeons useless now? OP, did you fail out of middle school math?

AK averages 30-40 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/40 tomes.
CM averages 20-30 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/0 tomes.
Prae averages 18-30 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/0 tomes.
Garuda averages 5-7 minutes depending on group, and gives 15/10 tomes.

It's pretty obvious that once your Myth tomes are capped, CM/Prae are still optimal.

And if your group is great (1 tank, 1 healer, 6 dps), Garuda farming is better than AK.

So again... OP, did you flunk out of middle school math?

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

How are 8man dungeons useless now? OP, did you fail out of middle school math?

AK averages 30-40 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/40 tomes.
CM averages 20-30 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/0 tomes.
Prae averages 18-30 minutes depending on group, and gives 100/0 tomes.
Garuda averages 5-7 minutes depending on group, and gives 15/10 tomes.

It's pretty obvious that once your Myth tomes are capped, CM/Prae are still optimal.

And if your group is great (1 tank, 1 healer, 6 dps), Garuda farming is better than AK.

So again... OP, did you flunk out of middle school math?

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Before you mock the OP you should probably get your times correct. I assume by your "averages" the first number is suppose to be at it's best (considering you put 18min prae run). Not only are most groups at it's best not doing 18 runs still, but at it's best, people can do 17, 18min AK runs (even faster then that, but I put some leniency due to the fact that not many people will be). On top of that, you can also turn AK gear in for GC seals if people like that. And offers more gil for the trash mobs that are actually killed.

A lot of this is based off of "great groups" also since you point out one for Garuda mind you.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

Before you mock the OP you should probably get your times correct. I assume by your "averages" the first number is suppose to be at it's best (considering you put 18min prae run). Not only are most groups at it's best not doing 18 runs still, but at it's best, people can do 17, 18min AK runs (even faster then that, but I put some leniency due to the fact that not many people will be). On top of that, you can also turn AK gear in for GC seals if people like that. And offers more gil for the trash mobs that are actually killed.

A lot of this is based off of "great groups" also since you point out one for Garuda mind you.

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This is based on "average time people would expect out of speedruns with a full DL group". Yes, it could be even FASTER with a full relic+1 group that's on voice chat and using unorthodox techniques (pulling half of AK and doing it in one big aoe pull, etc). But those are the exceptions more than the norm.

Point being, 8mans aren't useless AT ALL, and doing AK all day every day gets old ANYWAY.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

This is based on "average time people would expect out of speedruns with a full DL group". Yes, it could be even FASTER with a full relic+1 group that's on voice chat and using unorthodox techniques (pulling half of AK and doing it in one big aoe pull, etc). But those are the exceptions more than the norm.

Point being, 8mans aren't useless AT ALL, and doing AK all day every day gets old ANYWAY.

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You can't put down to expect more than the norm on fights like garuda and praetorium, but not except to have more then the norm on ak lol. If you are putting averages out based off the performance of the group, your averages would be wrong (for example, no one will be doing 18min runs or 1 tank 1 healer on garuda).

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

You can't put down to expect more than the norm on fights like garuda and praetorium, but not except to have more then the norm on ak lol. If you are putting averages out based off the performance of the group, your averages would be wrong (for example, no one will be doing 18min runs or 1 tank 1 healer on garuda).

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Actually, 1 tank 1 healer 6 dps has become the norm on Ultros for farming Garuda, so huh... maybe not on Hyperion? But on Ultros that's how it goes. Ditto for Praetorium.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

Actually, 1 tank 1 healer 6 dps has become the norm on Ultros for farming Garuda, so huh... maybe not on Hyperion? But on Ultros that's how it goes. Ditto for Praetorium.

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You aren't getting it.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

You aren't getting it.

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No, it's you who isn't getting it. The times I posted are average for a RANDOM PUG GROUP YOU CAN FIND IN REVENANT'S TOLL. All of the times I posted. All of them. They are all average for what you'll get out of a speed run group. ALL. OF. THE. TIMES. Are THE AVERAGE. For people on Ultros. Maybe your server is slower, maybe it's faster, I don't care.

Point being, those are the times ON ULTROS. They are AVERAGES of what the COMMON PUG can expect.

Dedicated, organized groups are even faster. That's fine. I don't care. I'm talking for the average people here.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

No, it's you who isn't getting it. The times I posted are average for a RANDOM PUG GROUP YOU CAN FIND IN REVENANT'S TOLL. All of the times I posted. All of them. They are all average for what you'll get out of a speed run group. ALL. OF. THE. TIMES. Are THE AVERAGE. For people on Ultros. Maybe your server is slower, maybe it's faster, I don't care.

Point being, those are the times ON ULTROS. They are AVERAGES of what the COMMON PUG can expect.

Dedicated, organized groups are even faster. That's fine. I don't care. I'm talking for the average people here.

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You're right, average groups are able to speed run everything but AK apparently.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

You're right, average groups are able to speed run everything but AK apparently.

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On Ultros that's... basically how it is, yeah.

I don't know why it's that way but the average AK group on Ultros is minimum 30 minutes and goes as far as 40 minutes depending, because the server doesn't do the whole "run to boss/die" thing. And honestly, I don't care. AK is bland and boring, and you're better off just doing Garuda for a change of pace.

the only time i go back AK is to get the "self achievement" of killing wall boss without bee spawned and killing last boss on 2nd spawn....

And also i assuming all the post is about farming from DF?

If you are in a large FC.. 8man is better from my point of view cause we are helping our members to earn tomes fast for them to gear up.. :)

But of cause if you are referring to DF..... i would say is all on "LUCK"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

On Ultros that's... basically how it is, yeah.

I don't know why it's that way but the average AK group on Ultros is minimum 30 minutes and goes as far as 40 minutes depending, because the server doesn't do the whole "run to boss/die" thing. And honestly, I don't care. AK is bland and boring, and you're better off just doing Garuda for a change of pace.

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Ultros is not the average. Not everyone is on Ultros.

Either wayr point about optimal tome farm was correct.

Spamming Praetorium is the BEST source for tome farming. AK and Wanderer's offer like 3-4k gil per run though, on top of gear for seals and maybe even gearing up your alts if you dont have all AK pieces yet for every class.


People are deluding themselves, though. The grind is the same. It was 100 tomes pre-hotfix, and it is 100 tomes post-hotfix.

It still takes 72 runs of whichever of these boring, easymode dungeons for a full DL+relic set.

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Originally Posted by melisande

the 8 man dungeons are faster.

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I ran Wanderers in 18.5min so I highly doubt this statement.

After running WP this morning I definitely think it's faster than anything else from a pure philosophies standpoint...possibly mythos as well. 100/30 every 17 minutes with a good group.

i think you're all forgetting you cap myth every week so yeah its nice to change it up.

I am VERY glad they moved the two story missions away from tome farming. I think it sucks that people running it for the first time are doing it in mass with people rushing through to finish up their DL.

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Originally Posted by Myrik

ok so you have made 4 mans give the same amount of philosophy as the 8mans... why would ANYONE ever do an 8 man again? should have bumped philosophy up in prae/cast..

leave it where there are no mythology... but bump up the philosophy tombstone amount.. if not why both doing them? there just isn't a reason to now... in wp you have a chance at the relic req weapons so that's a decent cash source and then ak gives gear... why do 8mans at all anymore?

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Nothing was healthy about groups powering through CM, consider how many fresh 50s have to do it in order to complete their story and have the experience ruined, or, ruin the experience for the more geared players who have to carry them. It's not even an elitest stance, it was just really bad to incentive running that dungeon over and over.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

Spamming Praetorium is the BEST source for tome farming. AK and Wanderer's offer like 3-4k gil per run though, on top of gear for seals and maybe even gearing up your alts if you dont have all AK pieces yet for every class.

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Praetorium?
Wanderer's Palace. 2 pulls -> 1st boss, 2 pulls -> 2nd boss, 2 pulls -> 3rd boss, rinse, repeat.

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Originally Posted by Bayman

I am VERY glad they moved the two story missions away from tome farming. I think it sucks that people running it for the first time are doing it in mass with people rushing through to finish up their DL.

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Agree here. I'm still farming Philosophy and the cutscene hell of CM was getting on my last nerve. I can only feel sorry for the players doing the fight for the story and having to power-run it because people trying to beat an imaginary timer.

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Originally Posted by ntall1

Now you can get Myth tombs from WP as well.....

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myrik

they added / bumped tombstone drops

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God, this annoys me. The word is right on the screen. They're Tomestones, not Tombstones. Tome. Not Tomb.
T.
O.
M.
E.
TOME!

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Originally Posted by aswedishtiger

Why does everyone keep saying tomb and not tome? Is it really that hard to read?

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Inorite?

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

Agree here. I'm still farming Philosophy and the cutscene hell of CM was getting on my last nerve. I can only feel sorry for the players doing the fight for the story and having to power-run it because people trying to beat an imaginary timer.




God, this annoys me. The word is right on the screen. They're Tomestones, not Tombstones. Tome. Not Tomb.
T.
O.
M.
E.
TOME!


Inorite?

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The irony when you end your comment with "inorite".

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Originally Posted by Myrik

ok so you have made 4 mans give the same amount of philosophy as the 8mans... why would ANYONE ever do an 8 man again? should have bumped philosophy up in prae/cast..

leave it where there are no mythology... but bump up the philosophy tombstone amount.. if not why both doing them? there just isn't a reason to now... in wp you have a chance at the relic req weapons so that's a decent cash source and then ak gives gear... why do 8mans at all anymore?

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I think what they did was perfect, when i did CM first time, I spent half the time watching cs and i didnt know what was going on, it was no fun. they were nice nobody complained that I was watching cs, they said its upto me, and I thank that group for that, and I never force anyone to skip cs personally, because i never DF CM ( only go with relic group ) , but thankfully we dont need to do it anymore yayy...

now , new players can experience CM for what it is, a challanging dungen for main quest..