A Warrior's Invincibility

I attempted something last night and it seemed to work, this in no way possible will close the gap between a PLD and a WAR by much, but it does give you 6-11 seconds of breathing space. A WAR has 1 skill that is pretty much disregarded by most, that is "Holmgang" -Binds user and target in place for 6 seconds. They also have a stun that lasts for 5 seconds; Brutal Swing.

Now, lets say the Warrior was in a tough spot where his HP has dropped significantly and it will take a decent amount of time to bring him back, or we can also say that your healer is running low on MP, either way, you're basically in a shitty situation. Assuming the monster you're fighting is susceptible to stuns, you can use Brutal Swing to stun him, quickly run behind and cast Holmgang when your stun is about to run out. This pretty much gives you 6-11 seconds of NOT being attacked, UNLESS the monster uses AoEs around him, in which case, you should be prepared by knowing the fight.

I'd like to say again that this in no way closes the gap between PLD and WAR CDs, but it is a great way to give some breathing space to you, you're healer and you're party.

Just my two cents, would appreciate some feedback from those who have done Coils and know the fights.

Probably the least used skill we got. It's actually pretty helpful at times. But, I tend to forget I even have it when in those situations it would be helpful lol.

Things that actually make warriors poor tanks are almost always:
A) Not stunnable
B) Not Holmgangable
C) Both

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Originally Posted by DartFx

Assuming the monster you're fighting is susceptible to stuns, you can use Brutal Swing to stun him.

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Here's your problem. Sure, I can use it on Dullahans. But then again they're not worth the trouble, either.

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Originally Posted by Tronic

Here's your problem. Sure, I can use it on Dullahans. But then again they're not worth the trouble, either.

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I do get that my whole theory relies on one big "IF", however, like I stated in the OP, this is meant for those "Oh shit" moments when you really need some time to cooldown, let your healer gain mp. Either way, I've yet to hit coils but if this were to work in there it would definitely help. My most recent attempt was against the 2nd boss in WP, when he dumps all hate and goes after the healer, I was easily able to cast Holmgang and give the healer time to distance himself and recover MP.
Thanks for your feedback.

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Originally Posted by DartFx

My most recent attempt was against the 2nd boss in WP, when he dumps all hate and goes after the healer.

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Uh... it isn't an aggro drop. He targets someone at random in the party and follows them for X time. It says this in huge letters across your screen.

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

Uh... it isn't an aggro drop. He targets someone at random in the party and follows them for X time. It says this in huge letters across your screen.

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Uh, it's still an aggro drop since he stops targetting you to go after someone else. Essentially, it is the same thing.
This thread isn't a debate of whether or not it's an aggro drop, it's whether or not Brutal Swing and Holmgang can be used as a combination defensive CD.

Problem is that this method does not work where it counts which is in the raids.

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Originally Posted by DartFx

Uh, it's still an aggro drop since he stops targetting you to go after someone else. Essentially, it is the same thing.
This thread isn't a debate of whether or not it's an aggro drop, it's whether or not Brutal Swing and Holmgang can be used as a combination defensive CD.

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You're right, it is a cool ability for the occasional fight it works on.. It just often doesn't work all that often :/

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

Problem is that this method does not work where it counts which is in the raids.

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he did say in the OP that this wasn't going to close the gap between WAR and PLD at all, so I don't think it's fair to take the discussion there

I would rather they just made Hallowed Ground a cross class skill between PLD and WAR.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

he did say in the OP that this wasn't going to close the gap between WAR and PLD at all, so I don't think it's fair to take the discussion there

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It's not worth discussing because it isn't an option on any bosses. The last boss you can bind is Garuda, and she's immune to stuns.

this skill smell pvp-ish

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Originally Posted by Illya

I would rather they just made Hallowed Ground a cross class skill between PLD and WAR.

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That wouldn't change anything, except make us a wanna-be PLD that still isn't as good and uses a two-handed axe. Think outside the box, don't copy PLD.

The skill has its uses, hopefully will be able to use it more in the future, most of the time I use it is offtank for Garuda, grab the red sister, hold her for a few seconds walk through slipstream and bind her from behind, makes the healers job a bit easier since they don't have to heal me any at all on the sister phases, really helpful when we have people in the FC that are new to the game/healing in the game, we try to make it as painless as on them as possible, then laugh when we toss them to the duty finders on nights we don't do FC runs.

Personally, I think the biggest thing a WAR forgets about next to Holmgang is Bloodbath/Berserk Combo. Same cool down. Bloodbath lasts 10 seconds longer. One Action Combo will take care of the 10 seconds in order to negate a bad timing on berserk pacification. Making a rather useful macro helps with it. You get used to knowing when its coming. And the bloodbath combined with berserk leads to some 1.5k+ damage healed every 30 seconds. And once in a while when available Unchained will increase this to 2k+.
So for those WARs that don't use this. Makes HM Titan fun to tank. Well timed Inner Beasts, Thrill of Battles, and that combo. People will see you are WORTHY! Although... MT on bcoil turn 1 with weak dps... sucks a lot... too much time the healer can't keep up. And you end up on cooldowns real fast.

I'm a warrior and I don't want to change but if I can't finish the coil ill stop play and stop paying anyone fell the same way let me know

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Originally Posted by Phreak

That wouldn't change anything, except make us a wanna-be PLD that still isn't as good and uses a two-handed axe. Think outside the box, don't copy PLD.

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Okay. So let's imagine a skill which grants a period of invincibility similar to Hallowed Ground on PLD, but more like how WAR plays.

I'll call it The Beast Within, because the Warrior summons the Beast that rages within to create a temporary shield against damage.

After using The Beast Within, a Stoneskin of 100% of the WAR's HP is granted. The next 4 skills used, no matter what they are, will refresh the Stoneskin to 100% of the WAR's HP. The Stoneskin effect will wear off after 3 seconds after which it must be refreshed.

So, you get 5 skills worth (12.5 seconds) of effective invincibility, because it refreshes the Stoneskin each time you do something. You have to keep pressing your attack to maintain the effect, because it wears off after 3 seconds. After the last refresh is used up, you are back to normal.

As with Hallowed Ground, The Beast Within has a CD of 6 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Lirion12

Personally, I think the biggest thing a WAR forgets about next to Holmgang is Bloodbath/Berserk Combo. Same cool down. Bloodbath lasts 10 seconds longer. One Action Combo will take care of the 10 seconds in order to negate a bad timing on berserk pacification.

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I actually feel bad about myself that i havent been doing this. Ive been using berserk with internal release for large spike damage/hate.. and then using bloodbath along with vengance and forsight when holding a pack of mobs. even still.. holmgang is an awful skill, i used it once when a healer pulled hate.. it bound me in place leaving the mob free too eat whoever he wanted. I dont lose hate on bosses, and dont need it for adds, so i cant find its purpose. garuda's red add is a great idea though

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

I actually feel bad about myself that i havent been doing this. Ive been using berserk with internal release for large spike damage/hate.. and then using bloodbath along with vengance and forsight when holding a pack of mobs. even still..

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You shouldn't be worrying about using bloodbath with Berserk. If you do you cut off 5 seconds of bloodbath time, so even though they have the same cooldown they should not be used at the same time. If you really want to you would use berserk after 10 seconds of bloodbath being up, but that is more attention than it's worth. And honestly bloodbath is such a minimal contribution over time that "saving" it for anything makes it a completely ineffective cooldown. It should be used on cooldown every opportunity to generate the 7-10 hp/s it averages out to.

not a bad idea OP, but it would only work for a single target unfortunately.

As I progressed further into end game, I realized that this doesn't seem to work as much.
However, some tips for when it does work:
When you're low on hp and need breathing space, you can always combo Berserk+Bloodbath then Brutal and Holmgang, to get some HP your way and lessen the strain on the healer. It really sucks the way it's set up that at higher dungeons these skills are completely useless.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

You shouldn't be worrying about using bloodbath with Berserk. If you do you cut off 5 seconds of bloodbath time, so even though they have the same cooldown they should not be used at the same time. If you really want to you would use berserk after 10 seconds of bloodbath being up, but that is more attention than it's worth. And honestly bloodbath is such a minimal contribution over time that "saving" it for anything makes it a completely ineffective cooldown. It should be used on cooldown every opportunity to generate the 7-10 hp/s it averages out to.

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If it needs to be fulltimed to even be marginally useful, then it is a garbage skill and it should feel bad as well as holmgang, we have 2 either useless or insanely situational skills.

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Originally Posted by Lirion12

Personally, I think the biggest thing a WAR forgets about next to Holmgang is Bloodbath/Berserk Combo.

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Just thought, as healer, the pacification debuff from berserk is dis-spellable. Coordinate with your healer and you'll have no pacification.

WAR tanks are gods among men when they coordinate with their healers. PLDs are kind of heal and forget for me as healer.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

If it needs to be fulltimed to even be marginally useful, then it is a garbage skill and it should feel bad as well as holmgang, we have 2 either useless or insanely situational skills.

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It's not useless it's just not very good. It's effectively about ~1000 healing every 90 seconds, which is actually much more in magnitude than say, the cross class Second Wind, but it's spread out over 30 seconds so it can't really be used reactively.

It's weak but not 100% useless like Holmgang is on fights that matter.

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Originally Posted by Illya

Okay. So let's imagine a skill which grants a period of invincibility similar to Hallowed Ground on PLD, but more like how WAR plays.

As with Hallowed Ground, The Beast Within has a CD of 6 minutes.

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It would be more to WARs play style, to be a full heal every attack instead. (which for some reason we dont have any full heals)

I would be in preference to the idea of taking a lot of dmg, and healing back a % of it.

(aka, take 8k dmg, and now heal back 50% of it.)

It would scale to the monsters attacks, like PLD scales, but is more risky, and harder to pull off (as you need to time it)
You also need to survive the attack, to heal back the damage.