I regret that my key perspective to this is for Paladin. I'm not asking for buffs to paladin, but I'm asking for variety in the job system. I realize that jobs are more powerful than their class-counterparts but I've always felt that classes sounded more fun. In my brief time in 1.0, I had more fun on Gladiator than Paladin.
SE,
Please, in the future, give us ways to differentiate ourselves from other players.
I can't speak for many jobs, but for Paladin, there is virtually no choice in skills, once you have your subs leveled. The biggest choice is really whether you want to equip a terrible cure or stoneskin, which at least scales with our hp.
Though being able to your raise your healer after a battle is nice, it has no combat usefulness, and the walk back is never very long in a dungeon. You're better off equipping a combat useable ability, and being more likely to win, than the "convenience" of being able to raise.
Every other MMO I've played, every single one, had choices. While, with a given goal, there was nearly always a best choice (these were called 'cookie-cutter' builds), it sometimes varied from goal to goal, and usually offered a few points for options.
Warcraft (Pre-Cata...cata really dumbed things down) had specs, and there were a few choices you could make while picking up necessary abilities.
RIFT, though I didn't play it long, had similar spec setup, but you had to go x-deep in other trees before going deeper in your main tree.
FFXI had merits, and for some jobs, merits were rigid, best choice, and for others, they were more fluid. Some jobs the choice didn't really matter, or was a little bit up to player preference (partially true for Red Mage, Bard, BLM, Ninja). Paladin was pretty customizable to your style of play.
FFXI also had subjobs, which not only could sometimes change how you merited (meriting based on your most-common sub), but itself individualized classes. For a short time, dual wield warrior was competitive, in very geared situations, with 1h Warrior. Tanks could choose a sub depending on the content and their task. The nice part about subs is that they were very fluid.
At one point, Tanking Paladins in Warcraft could choose to do 0-5% more damage or be healed for 0-5% more. Usually, the choice was damage, because most of that healing went to overhealing. 5% more of a tanks dps sometimes made the difference. The same is true in this game, however a wow tank might spec 5% more healing received for something like Titan HM.
The panes seem filled with some lackluster stuff and the choices become virtually non-existent. Not that I would want to, but I can equip Skull Sunder from Marauder, but cannot equip Heavy Swing, meaning that I cannot fulfill that combo. It takes the same GCD as most other abilities, so there's no benefit, ever, to a paladin using it, not even while below level 10 (though he'd be a gladiator at level 10 lol).
Job Customization
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10-14-2013, 02:39 PMSteeledJob Customization
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10-14-2013, 02:57 PMLivilda
While I don't like your tone, I do agree that the cross-class options for Paladin are definitely lacking, and would like to see more meaningful options. Raise is useless - either we wipe and return, or win and whoever died returns and shortcuts back if the dungeon isn't just already over. Need battle raise for it to be worthwhile. Cure is equally useless, mine heals for 3-6% of someone's max HP. Not even worth the cast time.
And what's up with Warriors getting Flash but us not getting Overpower? -
10-14-2013, 03:07 PMO_Villaniauh, just for the sake of it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Livilda
same complaint from us WARs.
Why do PLDs get Foresight, while we don't get Rampart? -
10-14-2013, 03:32 PMVinta
Let me educate you on the original intention of the addition of "jobs" to the class-based armoury system:
Classes are meant to be a base to start with, that you can build out to your heart's desire and customize.
Jobs (which are separate from classes) were added as ways to make your class form-tailored to situations. For example, Gladiator goes from a generic sword-and-shield fighter with some tankiness to an I-fight-for-my-friends Paladin. As another example, Archer goes from being a purely offensive hail of arrows to dipping its hands more toward the supportive role.
That all being said, I'm still upset Gladiator can't receive elemental spells. I had a for-fun Red Mage mock build in 1.0. -
10-14-2013, 04:34 PMSteeled
This really wasn't meant to be ABOUT PALADIN, just that paladin is my sampling into the job system. I also have whitemage 50 and am equally unimpressed, but my ACN sub is only 15 so I guess that could change.
What's wrong with my tone? I wasn't trying to be snarky or sarcastic. I'm not trying to make any jabs at SE, so would alter my text if there really was something offensive there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Livilda
Flash is AOE while Overpower is Conal. Given the nature of this combat, both tanks need a way to get the attention of everything around them and not hope the pull is lined up perfectly. While I wouldn't mind overpower, I think it intrudes on warrior territory for Paladin to get overpower.Quote:
And what's up with Warriors getting Flash but us not getting Overpower?
Definitely, a legitimate issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by O_Villania
I know all that, which is why I said that during my time in 1.0, I had more fun on GLA than PLD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinta
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10-14-2013, 06:02 PMSylve
Paladins don't get Overpower because they don't need it.
Flash and Riot Blade is more than enough to hold off healer hate. If the DD are focusing several different targets and not the Tanks one .. thats the fault of the DD, not the Tank.
My Warrior isn't yet 50, But theres not a single situation I've been in that i ever thought to myself damn, if only i had Rampart we could of won that! Thrill of Battle gives me nearly 1k HP, combined with Second Wind, i can often use them to survive a blow a Paladin couldn't even with Rampart up.
I know what you're asking, for some more personal customization, but that kind of isn't really possible. Using the Talent systems from from WoW (before and after they butchered it) and RIFT, There was always a 'cookie cutter' build, and builds that just flat out didn't work for any kind of content.
And even some builds that were totally amazing for solo content, but useless in group situations.
What we have now is a small level of choice in subclass skills to take, and there isn't much more they could do to change that due to how unique each class feels from other classes. As an example, despite very similar skillsets, tanking on my Warrior feels very different to tanking on my Gladiator. Which is part of why i chose to level the Warrior first.
My SCH feels way different to my CNJ, and my Monk to my LNC.
Opening up the crossclass skills just blurs the lines on that unique feeling the classes have.
It's unfortunate that you wish to be a special snowflake among Paladins, but really, changing what we have risks breaking the feel of the classes. Giving us stat choices isn't so great either, because it falls into the same trap as the WoW/RIFT talent system, the 'best' build is mathed out and becomes the only acceptable way to play. -
10-14-2013, 06:17 PMSteeled
At 50, your desire for rampart will change. Most Warriors, of all gear levels, will agree the job needs some love. Yeah warriors have a lot more hp than paladins but it's almost always better to take less damage than have more health. Less healing is needed, and less enmity is created, among other things.
It is the state Warriors are in that makes me hesitant to ask for changes from a paladin's perspective. I'm not saying my blue toyota is less fun to drive than your red honda, I'm saying driving on Square's highways isn't that fun. Never see a 4x4 or a motorcycle. Lame analogy, I know.
It is possible though. They could start by adding a glyph system. Let us customize abilities to our liking. For instance..
Glyph of Cure - for paladins
Your cure now has a 10 second cooldown but heals for three times as much (this is only 6-700 for a paladin in normal gear). -
10-14-2013, 06:33 PMShiyo
The cross class skill system doesn't work in this game at all, it honestly shouldn't exist. All cross-class skills should be given default to every job that uses them 99% of the time, like swiftcast to WHM/SCH/SMN and fracture/b4b for monk/bard. Some don't even make sense at LOWER levels, keeping up straight shot as a Pugilist even at the 20-25 levels is very cumbersome and clunky and doesn't work properly with your class, because your rotation is very strict and kinda set in stone to how it functions, and doesn't really feel "Right" rotating in straight shot.
The cross-class system is super fun for some classes 1-30, but once jobs come into the picture it becomes very generic and essentially doesn't exist anymore, with very obvious choices of what's good and what's bad laid out in front of you. SCH basically gets swiftcast, thunder, aero,stoneskin and clrerics stance, no one else in their right mind will pick up any other cross-class skill, so why have them?
I understand it's super hard to balance around people making their characters differently or trying to make a tank pugilist/monk or something(not possible with current cross-class system) or a DPS Conjurer(not possible), but it could at least be somewhat INTERESTING. A system like WOW where you get choices of 3 different DPS increases, then 3 utility skills, then 3 survivability skill choices,3 support skill choices(depending on class), 3 Crowd control skill choices, then 3 "ultimate" fun skill choices kind of like MOP's skill tree system would be nice, because something needs to be done in a future expansion to make it more interesting, or it'll be phased out even more. The cross-class system has a loooong way to go to be actually interesting, because honestly, right now, I don't think it should exist.
edit: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#l| Is MOP's skill tree's, kind of the cross-class system done right. -
10-14-2013, 06:34 PMDuelleThis. The OP is asking for the illusion of choice for the sake of having it instead of realizing that it's not choice at all and thus a waste of resources that could be used by the class balance team for more worthwhile endeavors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Agreed. We've already hit the point of "you must place X points into Y stat to be acceptable", and the game is not even two months old yet.Quote:
It's unfortunate that you wish to be a special snowflake among Paladins, but really, changing what we have risks breaking the feel of the classes. Giving us stat choices isn't so great either, because it falls into the same trap as the WoW/RIFT talent system, the 'best' build is mathed out and becomes the only acceptable way to play.
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10-14-2013, 07:04 PMSteeled
Or, read the thread.
I acknowledged that most "customization" in other games had best in slot choices which left you a few points to play with, and in some cases, no points. I know you're familiar with FFXI, so you quite well know that XI actually had choice for a lot of jobs. I mention red mage, and you focus on RDM in your sig, so clearly you're familiar with that.
This game presently offers you no choice in gearing. There is a best in each tier. There's no choice in stats, there's a best for that too. There's no real choice, for paladin at least, in what abilities you equip and it's not because there can't be, it's because they choices they offer are silly.
Heck, even the Myth-crafted items are linear upgrades from the non-crafted stuff. Nothing is lost, purely gained.
We may look different, but we're all ascending to be precisely the same thing on each job. Worse, there's not even any opportunity to get it wrong. If something is higher tier, you equip it, and the sub-job abilities practically place themselves.
Example: I looked up your character, and not at all to pick apart your choices, but simply that I wear, or have worn every single piece of gear you have save for Hoplite ring (in 100+ AKs, it has never dropped for me lol). That's my point. If you and I had access to the best paladin gear, we would probably be exactly the same. -
10-14-2013, 07:32 PMDuelleYou mean "sub white mage because the game lacks dedicated healers so you can be shackled to healing and spamming buffs", "sub black mage and get laughed out of groups because your nukes are still subpar and are 'less useful' to the group because you're not focusing on healing", and "sub WAR/NIN/DNC and be kicked off the game from the sheer power of the alliance's collective laughter at the idea of you wanting to do something other than heal/buff"? RDM is not the best example for what you're trying to argue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeled
If you argue abilities, then you're conveniently forgetting that this is done for the sake of balance between jobs, in tandem with traits that enhance said abilities for their native classes.Quote:
This game presently offers you no choice in gearing. There is a best in each tier. There's no choice in stats, there's a best for that too. There's no real choice, for paladin at least, in what abilities you equip and it's not because there can't be, it's because they choices they offer are silly.
The abilities don't have to be "useful" 100% of the time, as the core of jour job is defined by native class abilities and the five job abilities you get. Cross-class abilities are for additional utility and flavor, but are not and should not be job-defining. From one paladin to another, my bars currently have Cure, Raise, Foresight, Mercy Stroke, Fracture; outside of Foresight, they all don't get used 100% of the time, but that is fine.
If you argue gearing, you're basing that entirely on wanting to be a unique snowflake with no practical gain to gameplay on a larger level. Keeping stat gains and job/class scaling on a tight leash is for the sake of balanced gameplay, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I support the alternative.
If the choice is between "balanced classes with a very limited selection of cross class abilities that 'place themselves' while being more for flavor", and "balance clusterf*ck where people might think they are special snowflakes but there is in reality one sole good way to do things and a trillion under-performing set ups that get laughed out of groups that do the content that matters", I'm going to pick the former every time.Quote:
We may look different, but we're all ascending to be precisely the same thing on each job. Worse, there's not even any opportunity to get it wrong. If something is higher tier, you equip it, and the sub-job abilities practically place themselves.
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Now, if you wanted something a little more cosmetic, I may support that. Going off the minor glyphs from WoW that modified abilities cosmetically without changing gameplay, maybe even adding silly flavor abilities or modifications to spells and special effects. I'd love a Glyph of Mercy Stroke that changes the animation to simulate the weapon type you're using so that instead of a giant axe rising from the ground a giant sword raises from the ground (would sort of ressemble Night Sword from FF Tactics, so you can even tie an FF reference to it!). -
10-14-2013, 08:19 PMSteeledPrior to SCH, RDM was a great healer. SCH didn't change RDM, but it did kind of knock it down a peg. WHM could heal harder, but RDM had better throughput. The thing about RDM was the original job to straddle both lines. It could assist in damage until the group needed some healing and then could immediately provide that. Gearswap macros made it possible for you to nuke efficiently and heal efficiently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
RDM also tanked, as you know. It was the original soloer, claiming everything from Faust, to Charybdis, to Urteil (=P) most recently.
The game changed, negatively, after 75.
Anyway, no, I don't want just cosmetic toys. I want functional choices to make. I, for one, like the opportunity to do things wrong. I like the opportunity to do things differently and I feel like this game, more than any other, deprives us of that choice. I don't want to be a special snowflake, but I do want an actual choice to make and this game has managed to give us *none*. It's astounding.
It is not because I have any dreams of being a special snowflake, but because choice allows us to compensate. If I know I'm playing with a weak healer, I might want to gear/"spec" for that.
Balance between jobs? Like how Warrior and Paladin are balanced? How Scholar and White Mage are balanced (edit: enmity)? How Dragoon and Monk are balanced? It wasn't done for the balance of anything, and if it was, it was done poorly. White mage is a fine healer, but I'd rather have a scholar. In high-healing situations, its nice when a healer can do its job without riding the tank's threat (Hi Titan). Monk is a fine DPS but Dragoons do it better, and though it lacks the desired limit break, bards do it best.Quote:
If you argue abilities, then you're conveniently forgetting that this is done for the sake of balance between jobs, in tandem with traits that enhance said abilities for their native classes.
No, I'm talking about abilities that aren't useful. If you can't cast stoneskin, curing yourself has value, but minimal. The bosses usually hit a lot harder than a Paladin can cure for (and rightfully so), so the best you're going to do is delay death for a second. Stoneskin is more likely to save you, especially since when everyone is playing properly, a heal shouldn't be far away.Quote:
The abilities don't have to be "useful" 100% of the time, as the core of jour job is defined by native class abilities and the five job abilities you get. Cross-class abilities are for additional utility and flavor, but are not and should not be job-defining. From one paladin to another, my bars currently have Cure, Raise, Foresight, Mercy Stroke, Fracture; outside of Foresight, they all don't get used 100% of the time, but that is fine.
Tell me what a Paladin or gladiator is to do with Skull Sunder, please. That ability was thrown in there for the appearance of choice. Even if Heavy Swing was in there, it wouldn't belong because paladin has it's own counterpart abilities.
We don't work for the Adventurer's company, we shouldn't all be wearing the same uniform, but that is there is only one path presented to us. Everybody, do this the same way.Quote:
If you argue gearing, you're basing that entirely on wanting to be a unique snowflake with no practical gain to gameplay on a larger level. Keeping stat gains and job/class scaling on a tight leash is for the sake of balanced gameplay, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I support the alternative.
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10-14-2013, 08:28 PMShiyo
Did you just say Scholar and WHM aren't balanced? The best set up for almost every situation in the game is WHM + SCH, they are flawlessly balanced. This game really has the best balance of ANY MMO ever created, warrior is the only thing not balanced and my group can clear turn 1-4 in a single day with Warrior + PLD tanks in HORRIBLE gear because we've gotten ZERO drops for them and the WAR is using relic +1 and didn't spend myth tomeson any armor.
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10-14-2013, 08:46 PMDuelleThrough an oversight in enmity gained from spamming enfeebles (which got readily nerfed).Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeled
Which a responsible developer team would have nerfed to the ground within hours of it being discovered, not used as an excuse to not fix the job in ways it actually needed fixing.Quote:
It was the original soloer
Six years and still waiting for melee fixes that won't come, to the point I'm asking SE for a fitting Red Mage in a game completely separate from FFXI just so that I can bury the hatchet.
The correct answer is "kick the weak healer or play around their weaknesses to minimize them", not "change your class' performance to compensate for them".Quote:
If I know I'm playing with a weak healer, I might want to gear/"spec" for that.
It's one thing to help out the healer in a dire situation (I've thrown off heals on stuff like the dragon in AK and HM garuda) without sacrificing your role. It's another to do part of the healer's job for them.
WAR and PLD's problem comes from not enough being done to have a standard tank kit, and hopefully that will get addressed soon enough.Quote:
Balance between jobs? Like how Warrior and Paladin are balanced?
Shiyo already answered this, but SCH and WHM are close to if not perfectly balanced.Quote:
How Scholar and White Mage are balanced?
In the hands of people who know their jobs very well yes, MNK in particular can produce exceedingly good DPS. It's one of the few jobs that have a steep learning curve (though even I will agree with Greased Lightning needs more uptime through a duration extension).Quote:
How Dragoon and Monk are balanced?
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10-14-2013, 08:59 PMSteeledNo, I didn't. I gave the one aspect of where they "aren't balanced", the enmity department, which occasionally, really matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
Like I said, I love WHMs, I just prefer Scholars :)
Edit: I reread what I said about it. Sorry for the implication that whm has some...flaw. There's just an ocean of difference between WHM who will occasionally ride the tank's threat and scholar who, when solely healing, is barely visible on the meters.
I don't know about "readily" nerfed. But yeah it got nerfed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
They famously used an RDM tank in part of the AV video, and then nerfed it several months later.
See, I disagree. I don't think RDM needing some defining traits had anything to do with its independence. SE is quite capable of leaving jobs alone for years when they suck in every regard (lolpup, loldrg)Quote:
Which a responsible developer team would have nerfed to the ground within hours of it being discovered, not used as an excuse to not fix the job in ways it actually needed fixing.
You've never assisted or carried a friend? I have, it's kind of what I enjoy. I love endgame serious raiding, but I love being able to carry friends too. It's just what I find fun in a game.Quote:
The correct answer is "kick the weak healer or play around their weaknesses to minimize them", not "change your class' performance to compensate for them".
There are people, very skilled and geared people who view it differently. Not me, not yet. I don't quite have the gear yet, but like Titan for Tots guys. They don't mind carrying people. Even the guilds that sell runs cheap. They pocket a little money and help someone who doesn't have an FC capable of killing it. I have always been the type of player that doesn't mind stepping outside of my role and carrying more if it gets the win. I just like doing it.Quote:
It's one thing to help out the healer in a dire situation (I've thrown off heals on stuff like the dragon in AK and HM garuda) without sacrificing your role. It's another to do part of the healer's job for them.
Yes it can. Bard's strength is enhanced by their mobility and lack of positional requirements. I can almost understand why they don't have a damaging LB.Quote:
In the hands of people who know their jobs very well yes, MNK in particular can produce exceedingly good DPS. It's one of the few jobs that have a steep learning curve (though even I will agree with Greased Lightning needs more uptime through a duration extension).
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10-14-2013, 09:22 PMSteeled
An example even is that because so mach of wrath's combat was proc based, like critting on a spell reset a cooldown, or made the next other-spell free (like Cure/Cure2/Cure3, but a whole lot better), there was so much gearing choice in Warcraft, and believe it or not, both were very viable. Healer's could gear for critting, and procs, or the could gear for casting really fast. Because the gear affected the job, like paladin had an equip that lowered the cost of one method's primary heal, it was the best in slot for that sort of build. However, the other build had a best in slot libram that was a different piece, and both managed to be competitive.
Discipline priests were great tank healers, if they spec'd for it, or they were great raid healers (by mitigating damage) if they spec'd for it. The gearing was different, and people dedicated to jobs often carried multiple sets.
Here, the gear is so bland. The only reason Warrior's don't wear Valor Surcoat is because it says PLD on it. (Bit of sarcasm, I don't know what the WAR's i90 stats are).
I don't know, it's a shame that it appears I'm in the minority here, but everything is so bland in choices. Everybody does everything exactly the same, if they can. -
10-14-2013, 09:25 PMKalleraYou will conform, PLD number 573313D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeled
Customization is a lie,
there is only the build,
there is only the repetitive tasks. *bzzt*
/sarcasm
I think I remember warning of this in the beta forum. -
10-14-2013, 09:51 PMSylveYou realize that there was no way to spec separately for raid healing or tank healing as a Disc Priest, and all it involved, was a mouseover macro bound to Power Word: Shield and the occasional Prayer of Healing/ Prayer of Mending? And should i also mention that more than one Disc Priest in a raid meant the second Priest, or even the Holy Priests couldn't use their own Shields due to how Weakened Soul worked?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeled
And those Librams didn't last long at all, they killed off the spell bonuses fast when people were keeping ilvl 200 Relics and Librams all the way up to Lich King because the benefits to the one spell overshadowed the stat gains from higher ilvl drops. Once again, the illusion of choice.
As to the bland gear argument ... We're getting the Vanity slots soon, so you can look however you like.
I should also mention that gear appearances in WoW are so bland these days, that the Raid drops are just recolored Tier set pieces. Oh, and Raid drops are virtually pointless since the Tier set bonuses exist.
The only reason people have not complained is because of Transmogrification and 5 years worth of Expansion sets.
Crafted gear is also pointless since its overshadowed by Tier sets and often the stuff that drops out of raids anyways.
You seem to be looking at WoW through some VERY rose tinted goggles here buddy. -
10-14-2013, 10:02 PMKhaletteI absolutely disagree. I'm a casual player and hate the idea that I have to level classes I don't want to for certain abilities, BUT I do love the cross-classing in this game. I love how one character can be everything you want, and I love how fluid the changes between two jobs are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
WoW's MOP is horrible with obvious choices, and I feel like if this game takes too much from other games it will lose it's identity like Rift.
With that being said, I do believe that there should be more customization for classes beyond sub class abilities. I do think you should make choices between cool-down abilities that help enhance one aspect of your class's role such as support, cc, mitigation, or healing/damage procs.
Ironically, lack of customization helps with having balance among classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiyo
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10-14-2013, 10:03 PMKalleraQuote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Vanity System be damned, I don't want this to be our future. -
10-14-2013, 10:43 PMSylveI don't think we have to worry about that here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera
My reasoning is quite simple, Just how many FF games are there? the Art Team here has a ridiculous catalog of armor themes and such they can use. The Vanity System they go with will only enhance that, so we if we don'thappen to like the one thats currently the highest ilvls, we can always use a previous set we DID like.
We also have the ability for them to drop in straight up cosmetic sets for armor that was iconic or popular in older FF titles. -
10-14-2013, 10:48 PMKalleraBut for all of its looks, it will come through raid raids and more raids, to the detriment of all other content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Why level your chocobo? Get some friends, noob!
Why craft? dungeon#30's drops are practically required, you know?
Why---etc. -
10-14-2013, 10:54 PMSylveNot true. I doubt the Lightning FATE event will be the last of its kind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera
We may even see craftable statless gear that just has a unique look for the Vanity system. We know we get to make furniture items for houses. Would be silly not to utilize that for equipment also.
FATEs, Dungeons, Raids, DoL/DoH even PvP may all see some way to pick up unique gear sets. -
10-15-2013, 06:26 AMSteeledUgh, I want more than cosmetic. I want to actually be different, if that's my choice. Not inferior-different (herpaderp, I'm gonna wear hoplite (ak60 tank set) because I think it looks cool), but different because I made a choice for my playstyle and the content I tackle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Lol, I can't help how dumb that game is getting, but it was better, for a time. If modern WoW bears any similarity to a few years ago, set bonuses didn't always make a set better (lots of jobs would aim for 2pc and ignore 4pc), and sometimes /gasp, the set survived through the next tier. A set bonus good enough that it was worth a minor loss to your primary stats that higher ilvl gear would bring.Quote:
I should also mention that gear appearances in WoW are so bland these days, that the Raid drops are just recolored Tier set pieces. Oh, and Raid drops are virtually pointless since the Tier set bonuses exist. ...
You seem to be looking at WoW through some VERY rose tinted goggles here buddy.
You are right about the librams being stripped of properties (totems etc too) but that was part of the dumbing-down of everything. At the same time they did that, all healers became the same, stats like attack power and spellpower were removed from gear, as well as defense rating. (At that point, INT gave nearly ever stat casters/healers could want). It's also WoW's fault for, through the entirety of Wrath, not making more interesting Librams to replace those old ones. They didn't even try. -
10-20-2013, 03:52 AMCitizen_ThomOutside of Flash (which costs mp and doesn't instagrab hate like two spammed overpowers do, so you can run out of mp before you get hate back) non of the GLD's abilities for enmity can be spammed, they require combos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Second, MRD/WAR doesn't really need Flash, so why do they get it as a secondary ability when GLD/PLD don't get Overpower? -
10-20-2013, 03:59 AMJocko
I never understood the whole 'illusion of choice' argument. Fuck that. I don't give two shits if something isn't optimal as long as it's viable
I'd take unbalanced variety over balanced homogenization any day of the week. Was XI's job system incredibly unbalanced? Hell yeah it was. Was it a lot more interesting and varied than ARR's? By a fucking long shot. Which is sad because the whole definition of the armory system is customization, yet they went and restricted it to the point of it basically not existing.
And it's not just skills, but gear as well. It's so sterile and linear in progression. There's no unique gear with interesting traits or stats. It's all the same with slightly increasing numbers. It's fucking boring.