Coil Needs Changes

The lockout system on Coil is BS.

As Coil is the only endgame worth doing right now, it's pretty dumb to have a group of more or less than 8 people playing the game with you.

Have 10 people in your group that are ready and willing to do coil? Well screw you, because 2 of them aren't going to get to go with you each week.

A simple solution would be to change the loot system from direct drops to currency, then instead of locking people out of the dungeon on completion, lock them out of rewards. Have you completed Turn 1 this week? Then you can help a friend with Turn 1 so he can get the currency, but you're not allowed to receive more currency this week. Comparatively, the lockout right now, I imagine, is mostly to prevent people from rotating one person and having them receive 2 whole pieces of gear.

Honestly SE, do something. Your endgame needs work. It's completely vertical and this lock-out crap on Coil is just NOT okay on a weekly timer.

I love how people rage at a 1~2month old game saying 'endgame' like lv50 ended the story and is max cap forever, and this is all we have for all eternity. That's what you get for fate grinding all day and getting on the cap level so fast, deal with it.

Wait for 2.1, they will implement more stuff, you know.
And then other patches, and other expansions and everything that every MMO have. They are never released full balanced, never without problems. But that's sortable.


Like they love to say, 'please look forward to it'.

Yea it does suck if you have like 10 people wanting to go but you can only take 8. That's how most MMOs work these days with raids. There is a 1 week lockout you can't do it more then once. It forces a set roster. You can always recruit for the bench have those guys step in when someone can't make it.

Pretty sure the coil raid is balanced for 8 people not 10, thats just how it is.

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Originally Posted by KariArisu

A simple solution would be to change the loot system from direct drops to currency, then instead of locking people out of the dungeon on completion, lock them out of rewards. Have you completed Turn 1 this week? Then you can help a friend with Turn 1 so he can get the currency, but you're not allowed to receive more currency this week. Comparatively, the lockout right now, I imagine, is mostly to prevent people from rotating one person and having them receive 2 whole pieces of gear.

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No. No more tokens thanks.

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Originally Posted by RaphaelDDL

I love how people rage at a 1~2month old game saying 'endgame' like lv50 ended the story and is max cap forever, and this is all we have for all eternity. That's what you get for fate grinding all day and getting on the cap level so fast, deal with it.

Wait for 2.1, they will implement more stuff, you know.
And then other patches, and other expansions and everything that every MMO have. They are never released full balanced, never without problems. But that's sortable.


Like they love to say, 'please look forward to it'.

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I don't know how many times this needs to be pointed out, but ARR is not a new game. It is a new version of a game that had been out for a while and there are 10 packed servers worth of people that transferred max level characters to. ARR was expected to be designed with this in mind so writing the issue off as a bunch of people consuming content too fast then whining is not valid.

And see more shouts about "selling Coil Turn clears and loot"? No thanks. Try and think outside of the box. And honestly, if you have played other MMO's for the last 5 years or so, you should have been used to these lock outs.

Remove lockout
Get all Coil gear in a week
???????
Profit

I don't even...
Rotate people. We have about 27 in our FC ready for Coil.
It's 8-man, it's not changing.

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Originally Posted by KariArisu

The lockout system on Coil is BS.

A simple solution would be to change the loot system from direct drops to currency, then instead of locking people out of the dungeon on completion, lock them out of rewards.

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I agree with this, but the whole "10 people in your group" is a more personal problem. Can't really expect an MMO to cater to the specific amount of friends you have.

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Originally Posted by RaphaelDDL

I love how people rage at a 1~2month old game saying 'endgame' like lv50 ended the story and is max cap forever, and this is all we have for all eternity.

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Coil is endgame... right now atleast. Endgame doesn't mean the final content in that certain game's life.

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Originally Posted by MakoRaiju

And see more shouts about "selling Coil Turn clears and loot"? No thanks. Try and think outside of the box. And honestly, if you have played other MMO's for the last 5 years or so, you should have been used to these lock outs.

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I think that is literally the only downside. The positives outweigh the negatives.

A loot lockout instead of a boss lockout would be a great idea imo. I can't tell you how many times i have to watch a friend of mine miss out on loot for the week when they only need more 1 healer (im a healer). Also it'd be a great way to get an FC members more gear. It only promotes selflessness if you think about it.

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Originally Posted by Swishytail

Remove lockout
Get all Coil gear in a week
???????
Profit

I don't even...
Rotate people. We have about 27 in our FC ready for Coil.
It's 8-man, it's not changing.

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I can tell from this post that you did not read the entire post this person posted.

What kari is asking for is to remove the Lockout for entering Coil once per week and replace it with Loot Lockout.

Loot Lockout will function just like Entrance Lockout Coil currently has now but instead of locking out the players entirely from entering coil again they are locked out from obtaining loot from coil again instead. Ya you can enter coil again to get myth tomes for your weekly 300 limit but it will still be impossible to get all allagan gear in 1 week.

Ya you can run Coil again for the myth tomes and helping friends get their weekly Coil loot but you will not be able to obtain any more loot for the entire week yourself until the weekly reset.

Loot Lockout out for coil will also add another benefit being a alternate method to obtain Myth tomes. Currently the Entrance lockout system coil has now prevents Coil from being a alternative method from obtaining myth tomes from AK.

I support loot lockout. NO TOKENS!

I'd love to help more groups

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Originally Posted by RaphaelDDL

I love how people rage at a 1~2month old game saying 'endgame' like lv50 ended the story and is max cap forever, and this is all we have for all eternity. That's what you get for fate grinding all day and getting on the cap level so fast, deal with it.

Wait for 2.1, they will implement more stuff, you know.
And then other patches, and other expansions and everything that every MMO have. They are never released full balanced, never without problems. But that's sortable.


Like they love to say, 'please look forward to it'.

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Yeah, the new update will be out and we get ilvl 80 content! WOOOoooOooOoooOooo. (Also pvp, let's hope there won't be any reserving instances problems or massive lag issues with players warping around)
Isn't BC ilvl90?
NO SHUT UP, STOP RUSHING ENDGAME AND JUST LEVEL MORE JOBS YOU DON'T NEED.

I love the FF community, we're basically getting what the game should have been ON release day with 2.1.

Lock is fine, but I hope there is df for this, so people could practice. For people without good FC , it is very hard for them to get a group.

Coil is designed for low man statics.

Nothing wrong with coil lockouts... the issue is there is no guild related content... and coil is BIS.

So coil is screwing over guilds hardcore in this game because of the 8 min/max and lockouts. If you do not have exact numbers someone gets screwed. That is just bad design in my opinion.

They need to add guild related BIS content... or remove the lockouts and reduce the drop rates drastically.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

So coil is screwing over guilds hardcore in this game because of the 8 min/max and lockouts. If you do not have exact numbers someone gets screwed. That is just bad design in my opinion.

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This precisely. It's bad design. I want difficulty, not artificial time sinks with lock-outs and whatnot.

Some people are arguing really awful things, like "it's not designed for 10 people", like really?
AK is designed for 4 people, Primals are designed for 8, I don't see them locking people out.

I don't mind "slow" gear progression, or difficulty, but I do mind when I have to tell 2 people they have to wait an entire week to play the game they are paying monthly for.

Lockouts like this would be fine if it was just side-content, but since the game is almost entirely vertical progression, there's nothing to do at endgame except Coil and 300 myths/week.

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Originally Posted by RaphaelDDL

I love how people rage at a 1~2month old game saying 'endgame' like lv50 ended the story and is max cap forever, and this is all we have for all eternity. That's what you get for fate grinding all day and getting on the cap level so fast, deal with it.

Wait for 2.1, they will implement more stuff, you know.
And then other patches, and other expansions and everything that every MMO have. They are never released full balanced, never without problems. But that's sortable.

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Are you serious? I didn't cap fast at all.

2.1 brings Crystal Tower, which gives Item Level 80. Coil is Item Level 90, which is the current endgame. Crystal Tower will be fun and give us new gear improvements until we finish Relic/Allagan gear, but it's not new endgame. 2.2 will likely give us another coil-like dungeon with lockouts. Their current plans for endgame are not looking good, and they have mentioned they have no plans to change Coil. Bad for the game.

So you want currency and not direct drops? To me that's every thing that can go wrong with end game PVE. Whats the fun in having currency handed to you just so you can go buy the item, instead of working hard for that said item or items? Sounds like some one that just wants gear handed to them.

People say "end game needs to change" when really, the thing you call end game does not actually fully exist yet. Why don't you have some patience and wait for actual content to be released.

Horses with blinders in this thread.

I hope SE removes the weekly lock-out and does loot lockout.
I want to see the chaos ensue.

Just FYI, inb4 the "10 people 2 sit out" arguement, I have 27
people ready for coil in my FC. They aren't going to change
anything, so instead of ranting on forums, we are instead
figuring out how to get everyone involved.

Collaboration is key.

The content for the next 6 months has already been laid out for us, and nothing is really changing. More coil-like dungeons and Crystal Tower. The problem still exists.

If you don't do currency, you have a problem with gear generation.
Think about it this way:

Complete Turn 1, +2 pieces of gear.
Rotate 1 slot so another person can come, +2 pieces of gear for that person.
See the problem? SE wanted 2 pieces of gear per turn, per 8 people, per week.

If they do currency, rotating people can be allowed without it generating twice as much gear for 1/8th of the participation.

This is endgame, not much is changing for a year.

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Originally Posted by Swishytail

Horses with blinders in this thread.

I hope SE removes the weekly lock-out and does loot lockout.
I want to see the chaos ensue.

Just FYI, inb4 the "10 people 2 sit out" arguement, I have 27
people ready for coil in my FC. They aren't going to change
anything, so instead of ranting on forums, we are instead
figuring out how to get everyone involved.

Collaboration is key.

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What collaboration is there in "go find your own group you can't come with us this week"?

People criticizing this thread for impatience or something are missing the point.

They shouldn't lock you out of a dungeon for a week when you could be helping other friends/guildmates who didnt get to run the dungeon with you the first time. Especially when this is the only dungeon for this tier of progression.

Changing the dungeon lockout to a loot lockout makes much more sense.

Edit: In order to combat dugeon clear sales (like with Titan) maybe they could make it so, after you've been loot locked for the week, you can only enter with people who have been on your friends list or in the same FC as you for at least a week.

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Originally Posted by KariArisu

What collaboration is there in "go find your own group you can't come with us this week"?

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No, that is not what I mean.

Other FCs are in the same boat (odd amount of Coil members) and we stay in contact
via Linkshell or whatever other means. This is obviously not a guaranteed victory, as
there still could be someone left out... but it does help.

Granted this also varies to whether your members are ok with this or not. Lots of factors.
But it doesn't hurt to try. :)

Problem with loot lockout is:

7 people run 1 person who hasn't done it yet.
That 1 person gets every piece of loot 100%

Granted you COULD funnel even with the lockout,
so in a sense this is irrelevant. =/

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Originally Posted by Swishytail

No, that is not what I mean.

Other FCs are in the same boat (odd amount of Coil members) and we stay in contact
via Linkshell or whatever other means. This is obviously not a guaranteed victory, as
there still could be someone left out... but it does help.

Granted this also varies to whether your members are ok with this or not. Lots of factors.
But it doesn't hurt to try. :)

Problem with loot lockout is:

7 people run 1 person who hasn't done it yet.
That 1 person gets every piece of loot 100%

Granted you COULD funnel even with the lockout,
so in a sense this is irrelevant. =/

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That's why I brought up currency. You can't over-generate gear if everyone gets currency once per week per turn.
Obviously we're dealing with what we have, doesn't mean it doesn't suck and we should just ignore it.

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Originally Posted by RaphaelDDL

I love how people rage at a 1~2month old game saying 'endgame' like lv50 ended the story and is max cap forever, and this is all we have for all eternity. That's what you get for fate grinding all day and getting on the cap level so fast, deal with it.

Wait for 2.1, they will implement more stuff, you know.
And then other patches, and other expansions and everything that every MMO have. They are never released full balanced, never without problems. But that's sortable.


Like they love to say, 'please look forward to it'.

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And *I* love when the white knights forget that YoshiP himself said that "the game doesn't start until endgame".

OP don't like the game formula. Better change it!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Trife

OP don't like the game formula. Better change it!!!!!!!!!

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Quality post, thanks for the insight and suggestions towards a better game.

Especially funny because of your signature begging for a feature that you want.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

And *I* love when the white knights forget that YoshiP himself said that "the game doesn't start until endgame".

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And I love how people fate grind all day, get lv50 in a couple days and start raging at the game.

Yeah this needs changing. I don't care if WoW does it, Yoshi doesn't have to copy the bad parts from other MMOs too.

Lockout should be based on loot not party size. If your FC needs to get 10 people through then 2 should never have to miss out on content because of it. The game should fit that in. Of course running it twice to get all 10 people through and instantly getting 4 pieces of loot is no good because then why not run it 3 times (7+1 twice) or take it a step further and rotate a 20 man FC through like that? There's two workable solutions to this.

#1 - Tokens. Each coil turn win gives you one token (can be repeated but no token after first win that week), 4 tokens = one piece of loot. This is the same average as you'd get right now.
#2 - Drop rate. For each person who has completed that turn reduce the drop rate from the chests by 12.5%. This works because each person in the party has a 12.5% share of the pie for each chest. This prevents the 7+1 situation as they'd have a 12.5% drop rate per chest.

I prefer #1 because there's no RNG there, but people will be all wahh wahh tokens again while failing to realise it's better for them and allows their mates to have fun too. Whether it's tokens or chests the fact remains you'll be doing Coil for months.

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Originally Posted by RaphaelDDL

And I love how people fate grind all day, get lv50 in a couple days and start raging at the game.

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What you said does nothing to combat his post its just blatant white knighting. Hes still right about what yoshida said yet the game doesn't deliver on what he said.

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Originally Posted by KariArisu

Have 10 people in your group that are ready and willing to do coil? Well screw you, because 2 of them aren't going to get to go with you each week.

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Getting 6 more players and forming a second raid team is far more easier then trying to get the game to change.

Even if not getting loot, people would still get a benefit from being able to practice floors that they have only cleared one time.

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Originally Posted by vigilante

Getting 6 more players and forming a second raid team is far more easier then trying to get the game to change.

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Instead of fixing the problem for everyone permanently, you just try to band aid it. It's already hard to even get one guy to do it with everyone else.

be grateful that you still can run instance multiple time in this game. Many other games use 12h-24h lock out for even low level content, even if you fail you still got locked out of it.

What's so hard about rotating people? Run multiple groups if you have 5+ sitting. First 3 turns you could win with a couple pugs if you had to.

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Originally Posted by Sterob

be grateful that you still can run instance multiple time in this game. Many other games use 12h-24h lock out for even low level content, even if you fail you still got locked out of it.

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And that is bad design. Why should you be grateful when it shouldn't even be like that.