Get rid of Stacking Regen/Medica II?

What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

What do you guys think?

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I'd rather get SCH buffed to where it is on par and equal to a WHM in effectiveness before we talk about nerfing WHm's. That said, if they are dead set on leaving SCH where they currently are in comparison to WHM, then yes, a nerf would be needed. Either bring SCH up, or WHM down, either is fine tho I would prefer the former.

Because nerfing your fellow healers in a PVE game benefits you right?
I would understand if you ask for nerf based on a pvp competitive game but PVE? lol

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Originally Posted by davloh

Because nerfing your fellow healers in a PVE game benefits you right?
I would understand if you ask for nerf based on a pvp competitive game but PVE? lol

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They are introducing pvp to this game.. lol so ya..

PvP and PvE will be balanced separately. Also, don't get ride of double regen stacking instead give SCHs double shield stacking ability. OK GO!!!!!!

Without stack regen/medica II, most (if not all) BOSS fight can still be done by 2 WHM, and still no one would want 2 SCH.

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Originally Posted by Arcaloid

Without stack regen/medica II, most (if not all) BOSS fight can still be done by 2 WHM, and still no one would want 2 SCH.

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Sadly, I believe this as well.

This would not fix double sch or fix undesirability of sch for crystal tower. 5 whm 1 sch pts would still be the optimal. Because the additional whms would heal at full potency with cure2/medica but a 2nd sch will heal half potency with adlo and succor.

However 5-6 regen /medica 2 stacking is going to make healing such a joke lol. Though se wants undergeared people to beat crystal tower via duty finder soo maybe they dont care. I will really be pissed if i run into multiple sch in my duty finder raid lol

Realistically only tanks ever have regen and medica 2 on at the same time. The GCD is just way too long to abuse it on the whole group. Do you mean when two white mages stack medica 2 hots? Because that is awesome and it happens all the time when we know scholars aren't around to witness it.

As far as I know, Crystal Tower will consist of three separate groups joining forces, not one giant raid of 24 players. While 6 Regens on the tank will be possible I suppose, I very much doubt we'll have a single Scholar preshielding 24 players and 6 Medica II hots ticking away on everyone. :p

Not sure about the undergeared part either. Relic weapons will likely be required to enter the Crystal Tower according to Yoshi-P, either implying a decent ilvl average or simply having good gear by virtue of kicking Titan in the shins. Unless you were boosted in your Artifact gear, but then you only have yourself to blame for being bad. :p

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Originally Posted by davloh

Because nerfing your fellow healers in a PVE game benefits you right?
I would understand if you ask for nerf based on a pvp competitive game but PVE? lol

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I was thinking the same thing, it can only help you.

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Originally Posted by Starcore

I was thinking the same thing, it can only help you.

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No because if they are balancing content around 6 whm stacking regens then pts with more then 2+ sch are screwed. If they arent balancing content around stacking regens then sch pts will still be less desirable because stacking regens is going to trivialize 24 man content.

Now i am certain se will make sure that healing is not made too easy by regen stacking. Because they hate it when people beat their bosses quickly. However the question is will they compensate pts that have multiple sch.

SE seem to be balancing content around either 2 whm or 1whm,1sch. Which has caused some fights to be impossible or much harder for double SCH. Such as coil 4 enrage damage.

Job imbalances which either come from 1 job being much stronger(e.g pld vs warrior) or certain jobs being much more stack-able(whm vs sch, debuff cap vs smn) will result in negative consequences to weaker classes such as warrior main tanks or double sch.

So no Whm/pld being op only helps whm/pld . It doesn't help sch/war at all it makes it harder for them .Because content will be balanced around the more tested/op job.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

No because if they are balancing content around 6 whm stacking regens then pts with more then 2+ sch are screwed. If they arent balancing content around stacking regens then sch pts will still be less desirable because stacking regens is going to trivialize 24 man content.

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Well when you put it that way... thanks for the clarity

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

This would not fix double sch or fix undesirability of sch for crystal tower. 5 whm 1 sch pts would still be the optimal. Because the additional whms would heal at full potency with cure2/medica but a 2nd sch will heal half potency with adlo and succor.

However 5-6 regen /medica 2 stacking is going to make healing such a joke lol. Though se wants undergeared people to beat crystal tower via duty finder soo maybe they dont care. I will really be pissed if i run into multiple sch in my duty finder raid lol

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Crystal Tower is not going to be a zerg of 24 ppl. They've already said that 3 teams of 8 will be splitting up and doing content separately so will need a normal 8 man team formation on each team. 3WHM and 3SCH will still be useful.

As a WHM, while 2 medica II is damn sexy, I prefer having SCH as my other healer. The shielding and regular small heals really makes WHM healing easier since the entire team doesn't have health shooting all around like a ricocheting bullet. It's better for mana and since SCH are proactive healers, safer for the team. I prefer to have a SCH shield up with those big hits are coming. Garuda HM for example, there have been times where we were going to wipe because the stones went down too fast but a SCH shielded at the right time preventing 1shot and then we were able to get the team back to full quickly with both of our heals and their shield to keep health from going back down as fast.

Scholars need to stop underestimating their skills and learn to play their class. They aren't meant to play like WHM and I've seen some amazing SCH. I've also seen some amazing WAR that out-tank PLD. Those people know how to play their class and aren't trying to play it like their counterpart.

this thread remind me the one demanding nerfs to paladins instead of buffing warriors :D.

Oh now people have just turned bitter. It was only a matter of time before they started calling for nerfs. I had such higher hopes for this community.

Not shockingly the OP is a closet SCH. Surprise of all surprises.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

What do you guys think?

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Allow me to reciprocate mr Gladiator:
Hey, lets nerf a couple of Gladiator skills, what do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Allow me to reciprocate mr Gladiator:
Hey, lets nerf a couple of Gladiator skills, what do you guys think?

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Don't bother. He has a 50 ACN and a 35 Conj. He's a whining SCH. He is probably frustrated from being so terrible that he is just lashing out calling for nerfs... it's more of a comment on the state of his/her destructive role in the community than it is on class balance.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Don't bother. He has a 50 ACN and a 35 Conj. He's a whining SCH. He is probably frustrated from being so terrible that he is just lashing out calling for nerfs... it's more of a comment on the state of his/her destructive role in the community than it is on class balance.

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Ah, ok. Well I have lv50 Sch (and Smn got tagged along with it). The two healing classes are different and designed that way. I've run in groups on my whm where the sch has been excellent, making things so much easier for us both. Likewise I've been on my sch and balanced well with whm's.
I think the whm may be easier to play, but a good sch (not me yet :-) can be a real benefit.

At the end of the day its down to which class gives you the most enjoyment. Levelling is pretty easy, so if you're frustrated with one, try some others.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Ah, ok. Well I have lv50 Sch (and Smn got tagged along with it). The two healing classes are different and designed that way. I've run in groups on my whm where the sch has been excellent, making things so much easier for us both. Likewise I've been on my sch and balanced well with whm's.
I think the whm may be easier to play, but a good sch (not me yet :-) can be a real benefit.

At the end of the day its down to which class gives you the most enjoyment. Levelling is pretty easy, so if you're frustrated with one, try some others.

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I agree. The learning curve on the SCH is higher, imo. The more practice I get with the class, the more I like it.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I agree. The learning curve on the SCH is higher, imo. The more practice I get with the class, the more I like it.

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Please don't say things like this. SCH is a very simple healing class and is no different in terms of difficulty than a WHM. I know you'd like to think that the class you play is very difficult to master, but it's incredibly easy.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Allow me to reciprocate mr Gladiator:
Hey, lets nerf a couple of Gladiator skills, what do you guys think?

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Why would this bother me? I never understood why people get so emotional when they are told their class isn't as good as another or that their class is over-powered.

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Originally Posted by Arcaloid

Without stack regen/medica II, most (if not all) BOSS fight can still be done by 2 WHM, and still no one would want 2 SCH.

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I keep seeing that 2 SCH is bad all over the forums, so everytime I've been in a group with 2 SCH's I've been a little nervous about how it would go. But I've done Castrum, Ifrit, Hydra, and Garuda all with another SCH and it hasn't seemed any harder than having a WHM with me. So it seems like the forums exaggerate a bit.

Maybe if Whispering Dawn had a reduced cooldown...

Yes, as it stands now, endgame has the optimal setup of WHM/SCH as they synergize well, however things are perfectly doable as WHM/WHM, while some things are not with SCH/SCH.

Some tweaks are needed.

Does not change the fact that I love my SCH though. :)

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Originally Posted by Terius

Maybe if Whispering Dawn had a reduced cooldown...

Yes, as it stands now, endgame has the optimal setup of WHM/SCH as they synergize well, however things are perfectly doable as WHM/WHM, while some things are not with SCH/SCH.

Some tweaks are needed.

Does not change the fact that I love my SCH though. :)

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Yep, it's why we fight for change as hard as we do, because we love the class.

There is an amazing healer in my FC who is a scholar. He does a great job regardless of the group composition, and doesn't feel his class is underpowered or that WHM need nerfs. I'll say it again: the problem is not with the methods through which SCH or WHM are given to do their job, it's the approach taken by the players when using them.

White Mage is an easier job to heal on, but it's also more limited. WHM as a stronger option for most circumstances, but is only able to do one thing at a time, due to cast times and GCDs. As a Scholar, I can manually have Eos casting a heal, cast a Succor, and immediately Lustrate the tank who just ate a mountain buster while not going onto global cooldown.

I started using the DPS parser recently, and it showed some really interesting things. On harder fights, just Titan HM, a WHM will often outheal my Scholar. And if my Scholar didn't have a pet, this would be an issue. However, my Scholar also has a little ball of light that healed for almost as much as I did on that fight, meaning I suddenly had a commanding lead on healing.

TL;DR; Scholar is amazing, and shields aren't the niche of the Scholar--Faeries are. Shields don't have to stack for Scholars to be useful stacked.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Please don't say things like this. SCH is a very simple healing class and is no different in terms of difficulty than a WHM. I know you'd like to think that the class you play is very difficult to master, but it's incredibly easy.

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I actually play both classes. Cool thing about this game - you can play more than one class on the same character. I've actually played whm more, SCH was the second healer I leveled.

http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/...on_salazar.jpg

Balancing... my my, isn't that a popular word these days...

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

What do you guys think?

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I think you're trolling for posts.

The best fix IMO is to give Succor a small HoT or fix Eos to stop casting Whispering automatically.

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Originally Posted by Alindra

I keep seeing that 2 SCH is bad all over the forums, so everytime I've been in a group with 2 SCH's I've been a little nervous about how it would go. But I've done Castrum, Ifrit, Hydra, and Garuda all with another SCH and it hasn't seemed any harder than having a WHM with me. So it seems like the forums exaggerate a bit.

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2 scholars aren't bad. However, 2 SCH suffer from their skills canceling each other out while 2 WHM do not. 2 regens and 2 medica/medica II's can bring and entire party back from near death quite quickly. This is not the case with 2 SCH casting succor. 2 SCH casting succor is only spectacular when done with perfect timing as damage is still happening (meaning succor shield is never overwritten or not applied due to it already being up). Scholars have 2 abilities that can lose half their effectiveness if that spell is already present. With 2 SCH this problem is intensified. A lot of people forget that 2 scholars also means 2 fairies. 2 fairies can do quite a lot of healing.

I think a possible solution is to just give succor a bonus(25-50%) to its healing if a new succor shield is not applied.

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Originally Posted by davloh

Because nerfing your fellow healers in a PVE game benefits you right?
I would understand if you ask for nerf based on a pvp competitive game but PVE? lol

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May i remind you that its whm who are vehemently against buffing scholars..... because buffing your fellow healers in a pve game hurts you right? Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Lazarou742

May i remind you that its whm who are vehemently against buffing scholars..... because buffing your fellow healers in a pve game hurts you right? Just saying.

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This made me laugh because it is so true. But to be honest as many who play whm have pointed out, why would they want to give up being top needed healer class when stacking whm clearly makes the content easier compared to stacking scholars.

Good thing I am not one of those whm you mentioned then. I am all for buffs to my fellow healers especially when I team with sch often as well. It's not just those "whm" but those whiny sch that want nerfs to their fellow players in a PvE that is the problem. Less whining, more playing. Just saying ;)

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Originally Posted by davloh

It's not just those "whm" but those whiny sch that want nerfs to their fellow players in a PvE that is the problem. Less whining, more playing. Just saying ;)

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What I have a problem with is your attitude of someone willing to speak out against the inequality of a class compared to its counterpart. You have one class that actually suffers greatly due to the skill mechanics when ran with two sch as their shields overwrite one another (as well as a useless pet AI). Compare that to whm who actually benefit from the interaction from each other's spells. When doing high level content you have to decide what to bring and I can tell you having more than one of my class who overwrites half of their own skills if more than one is in a group is detrimental to the group. I would rather take the two whm who benefit from each others spells.

Also saying someone is whiney for speaking up is like the wealthy person saying a beggar is being needy.

I have a problem with players asking for nerfs, lets make the game with 1 tank 1 dps 1 heal job so everyone is equal? :)
Comparing things in a game to real life is legit right?
Anyways i'm all for buffing my fellow scholars, let their shield stack or whatever to help them do their job better, makes my runs easier.
Unless the bulk of the complaints come from certain sore sch that has been rejected by groups constantly, then i would say keep trying/finding groups that want you.
Might be a player issue, when sch i know has no problems getting into runs or raids. Just saying :P

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...he-point/page3

I'm not advocating for nerfs or buffs for either side. I just understand where they see coming from and see the point. Sch as described have more utility but less power compared to the whm which is by design. The only issue that I see with the class (don't get me started on that stupid fairy it can get eaten by ifrit) is the shield overwrite. It becomes a detriment to the group when you have more then one sch due to that. That needs to be addressed.

Also you totally missed the meaning behind my comment. I was saying you were being pretentious.

Seems only some subpar sch in particular has issues while the good ones embraced their role and understand/utilize their sch abilities. *see link in my previous post*
I will keep having fun partying with these good sch while supporting their cause to be buffed in some ways so our runs go even smoother in this PVE game. :)

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Originally Posted by davloh

Seems only some subpar sch in particular has issues while the good ones embraced their role and understand/utilize their sch abilities. *see link in my previous post*
I will keep having fun partying with these good sch while supporting their cause to be buffed in some ways so our runs go even smoother in this PVE game. :)

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You still are missing the issue. You're running as your whm with a sch. There isn't an issue here (minus the buggy fairy but that is more of a constant and can be somewhat mitigated by hardware macros). The issue becomes apparent when you have more than one sch in a group due to the shield. That is what people are pissy about. It's not a playstyle issue or a player issue. It's a mechanic issue.

We also do not know if the regen/medica stacking is working as intended as I have not seen any dev post on it. Same could be said for the overwrite of the shield.

I understand the issue about having 2 sch in a 8 man group.
You are missing the point where i keep mentioning, we should buff sch or fix it so they are more useful even in a 2 sch group, instead of just nerfing whm so that the current situation with 2 sch in a group is deemed acceptable.
So whats next after they nerf whm so 2 random terribad sch can get into some groups? Some Whiny whm asking for sch nerfs, rinse and repeat? This will never end, things will never be 100% balanced. This is my point that somehow was missed.
We should work together to fix classes that are lacking so they are more balanced than nerfing 1 class to make things *balanced*.