I enjoy this game... for the first character, but trying to do Alt's is a non-starter for me. I tried a couple this weekend, and it was horrible. Way too slow to solo trash world mobs, fate chasing is just plain dumb. Quest driven leveling is such a bad idea IMO. You limit your games lifespan. I guess this is what the kiddies want these days?
I'm enjoying my main character, I'm enjoying gathering (which levels much quicker then job leveling) The dungeon content is fun, graphics are awesome. There are lot's of aspects I really like about this game.
Why is there no exp parting? I've commented on this before, but the further I get into this game, the more I realize this is a MUST have for me to continue in this game. I'm not just talking about grouping up, and running around soloing mobs, thats lame. I want the old FFXI party system back!!
Crafting seems pointless, even gathering for that matter. I was gathering dark matter, but why? You can just NPC it for cheaper than the AH. Crafting? why? everything is handed to you for 90% of the game. Maybe at higher levels you can make nice gear, but it's so easy to level, wont everyone just do that themselves?
Just seems like there is a major balance issue in this game. Maybe it was done on purpose to get everyone to 50 then the "real game" will start with new content?
My suggestions:
1. Double the exp from world mobs to make leveling alt's possible or.
2. Create instanced exp party areas, this would be awesome.
3. Re-balance the craft/gather classes. In FFXI you had to depend on each other because doing all of the classes was extremely time consuming, it could take a year to max out a craft.
4. Fix the bots!!! And the spam!!!
5. Way too much solo quests, this is an MMO, why do I have to solo every quest except dungeons? Make the quests scale with party size or something? Again FFXI had it perfect.
6. Too many cross class abilities, I think this diminishes the need for job specializations. Why does conj. get flash? (I know jobs are more limited)
FFXI was a grind, I'm not asking for that again, but FFXIV went way too far the other direction. I'd like something in the middle of these games, little less grind, little easier questing and SE would have a perfect game that would last for years.
Just my $.02
Should have made FFXI-2 instead of this game IMO
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10-08-2013, 12:37 AMSlickpigShould have made FFXI-2 instead of this game IMO
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10-08-2013, 12:40 AMyukikaze_yanagibolded the important part of the post.Quote:
this is a MUST have for me
Also, no more FFXI in any shape, graphyc and gameplay in my life. Simply, no more. -
10-08-2013, 12:42 AMTupsi
Sadly you'll be torn apart by this community because majority of them seem to hate XI, who've played it and even the good aspects about it. Honestly, an updated XI would have been amazing because it was a lot more..like an MMO, even if it was based around EverQuests's Core systems they actually tried something different with it - Job Switch, Actual Storyline and the atmosphere/lore for example - With ARR, they didn't really try anything, they just simply made this MMO appealing to the mass by giving it a typical design, they didn't even try to make the Quest Grind more interesting, you can literally load up Rift, WoW, Lineage II or even Ragnarok Online 2 and get the same exact quests with different dialog.
Even in 1.0 you had to depend on each other and each of your classes for crafting/gathering but people complained about it so.. -
10-08-2013, 12:42 AMTyrial
Unless it's some sort of RP type situation, why are you even bothering with an alternate character in the first place? That being said, how exactly is it slow? You can level to 50 in a matter of a couple weeks (or less) just by doing your quests.
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10-08-2013, 12:45 AMSatachi
This game just came out less than two months ago. Im sure within time its gonna get better. FFXI wasnt good within two months, it took a long time to get end game better. We as consumers just have to be patient and realize that its all a process. I feel with what you're saying, believe me. But you cant expect a MMO to be perfect in a short amount of time. With all you're asking, and what other people are asking, this game will just be rushed with content and the game will break as a whole.
But, thats just my opinion. Again, I respect your point of view. I just ask for everyone to be patient, and after a few more months you feel the same, then maybe its time to find something else. Not saying leave and GTFO, but you dont wanna spend money on a game if you aren't happy, you know? -
10-08-2013, 12:49 AMLisotte
I would much prefer the party exp grind of FFXI over solo quest grind. Not only do you sidestep the issue of running out of quests for alt jobs, but instead of skipping pointless text you don't care about, getting 10 rabbit skins, turning them in for exp, you can form a party with REAL people, go out there, get chain exp on mobs while chatting with your group, cheering when someone levels up, do your skillchain (oh wait we don't have that), etc.
This is an MMORPG; I'm here to play with people. -
10-08-2013, 12:50 AMReslinMMO's have changed. Many people feel there simply isn't enough quests and want more. Leveling entirely through mob grinding has been done away with for a long long time. People want things that hide the grind which is the primary reason most people don't like fates being the main way to level up. Most players simply won't play an mmo if grouping was 100% necessary in order to level up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickpig
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10-08-2013, 12:54 AMSlickpigThanks for being civil :) Like a poster above said "people will tear you apart" and I know that. Buy why? isn't this a forum to just hang out and chat? I Really hope that time will help this game. I know it's only 1mo old, I'm willing to put in some time with it. I re-subed, so I'm not giving up on it yet. I guess overall I had really high hopes for this game, since I played ffxi for almost a decade, but hit level 50 in this game in less than 30 days!Quote:
Originally Posted by Satachi
Plus the last thing I want is the Devs to give in to everyone's demands without thinking about the impact, that will ruin this game, I've seen that before with other games.. -
10-08-2013, 12:55 AMTupsiWhich is funny when you think about it - Quest Grinding is much older and more used than Mob grinding yet we still get this system in every new MMO :\Quote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
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10-08-2013, 12:56 AMOrophin
Party grind = dungeons
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10-08-2013, 12:57 AMSatachiMhm. It used to be where you could go to a forum and no one would troll/harass/bash or anything like that. I feel uphold that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickpig
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10-08-2013, 12:57 AMReokudo
Oh yeah, I totally... Miss the long hours of sitting in Crawlers Nest pulling crawlers into a cave and fighting them for half a day. Yeah, no. Other exp gains aside from that would be fine. As for crafting, leave that as it is. We don't need the game being more grindy.
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10-08-2013, 12:58 AMEvangela
No, thank you.
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10-08-2013, 12:58 AMBedroomRockstar01As opposed to mindlessly grinding mobs? Well, I guess that's one opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickpig
You're doing it wrong then (not that gathering takes that long either).Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickpig
Also, if you considered leveling alts a viable option in FFXI, then you must have not played pre-CoP. That was the last time I was there, and you were lucky to have 1-2 jobs at 75, let alone an entire alt character, although I understand that they basically nuked that system of leveling and made it a joke at some point. There are things I loved about XI that I'd like to see come back, but not any of the things you're suggesting. So what's my point? Take the game for what it is, and judge it on that alone. If it's not for you, then it's not for you. Comparing a 1 month old game to a 10 year old game is unrealistic to begin with. -
10-08-2013, 12:58 AMSlickpigI agree, leveling through ONLY mob grinding shouldn't exist. I'd like to see a good balance, but the problem is we've gone from one extreme to the other IMO, now there is ZERO mob grinding. Yes it can be done, I've done it for a few levels, but it's crazy slow solo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
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10-08-2013, 01:02 AMashikenshin
I loved FFXI! it was my first MMO and played it for like 4-6 years (memory is fuzzy) but i wasn't married and didn't have a job. Now, yeah I wouldn't want any of that. The story was awesome and I think ffxiv is on the right track with it's story. One thing I liked about ffxi that I don't like about ffxiv is that race doesn't matter at all. I know it sucked for those galka that wanted to be white/black mages but I don't know why I liked it.
Everything else about FFXI sucked your life out of you. If you are jobless or are a teenager then I think I know how that might sound appealing, but yeah, that grinding gives me shivers. -
10-08-2013, 01:05 AMHaruka-Akemi
Why so much hate for XI?
Anyways i played XI since beta and trust me i really miss party leveling it was slow but rewarding always i finished a party with 2000 tnl i
Always returned for more because leveling is exciting its part of the game i loved and here i need 2k tnl? No problem do a fate wich gives 12k
And do that 100000 times to hit 50.
Trust me is boring boring as hell
And what i do to pass the time in this game? Level another job or simply run ifrit always full of "not enough dps" kidz
Sometimes i wish this was a little more party friendly in all aspects
I want to participate in story missions with my friends or help em
Most of the time i disband the party with my friend because the story battles are instanced
I just wanted to help
But yeah i really miss XI grinding
Even with abyssea was fun and many people seems to hate it
But i bet some of these haters enjoyed theyr relics or empyreal or voidwatch runs
Or hell even getting sky -
10-08-2013, 01:08 AMLisotteOh yeah, having an npc tell you he needs 10 rabbit skins REALLY hides the fact that you're grinding. The only real difference is that with quests you spend some time travelling, and it's mostly a solo activity as opposed to a group activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
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10-08-2013, 01:09 AMSlickpigActually I played as soon as Zilart came out, up until Abyssea, I just ran out of time to play, and the elitist players made it no longer fun for me. If I didn't have uber gear, and was doing end game then they wouldn't talk to me. Which is fine, to each their own, I'm a more casual player anyway. I had 3 level 75's and most of the others were 36. Leveling other classes was something else fun to do, made me understand the classes better so in a party I could react better based on the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by BedroomRockstar01
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10-08-2013, 01:13 AMBattlewrench
A more modern day xi with more convenient system and menus would be my perfect MMO. Yes I know my, as in what I want not the majority.
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10-08-2013, 01:15 AMBedroomRockstar01Great, then you understand that leveling system and how terrible it was. The temptation to be blinded by nostalgia is strong for me too, but you couldn't pay me to go back to the Valkurm Dunes > Qufim Island > Yhoator Jungle > Garlaige Citadel > Crawlers Nest > etc. grind. And yes, there were a few great groups who would hit other leveling spots (usually due to overcrowding), but that's essentially how it breaks down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickpig
Leveling will always break down to the lowest common denominator. Whatever is fastest, most efficient, that will always be the way it goes regardless of what system is implemented. In that sense, any changes to our current system are entirely superficial.
I do agree with you that I'd like to see a premium on crafting services. They're greatly devalued at this point.
Just noticed something. You mentioned "instanced experience party areas." Don't we already have those (dungeons)? -
10-08-2013, 01:23 AMLisotte
[QUOTE=BedroomRockstar01;1390944]Great, then you understand that leveling system and how terrible it was. The temptation to be blinded by nostalgia is strong for me too, but you couldn't pay me to go back to the Valkurm Dunes > Qufim Island > Yhoator Jungle > Garlaige Citadel > Crawlers Nest > etc. grind. And yes, there were a few great groups who would hit other leveling spots (usually due to overcrowding), but that's essentially how it breaks down.
/QUOTE]
The key word in your anti-grind rant is "group." If I play an MMO I want to play with people, not go do fetch quests by myself. -
10-08-2013, 02:01 AMReslinIt does. Do you know how? It gives you a reason to kill the rabbits. If there was no text telling you to kill the rabbits and why you're doing it just because you need exp and feel like killing rabbits. This isn't as immersive. Say what you want and act like the text doesn't matter but in the end many people prefer questing to grinding. You can see it with all the "There needs to be more quests!" I'm in the boat that I prefer questing to outright grinding mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisotte
P.S. They're acknowledging said request by adding in daily quests that you can do repeatedly. -
10-08-2013, 02:06 AMFeifonwongQuote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
The questing is the grinding. That's what he's saying. -
10-08-2013, 02:10 AMBattlewrench
You kill the rabbits to get items to sell to crafters making those jobs have a shot in the economy. The things in xi dropped things if you don't recall, crystals hides etc. Yes some were useless but there was your insentive. You aimed to level up and got something for doing so. Rare gear from rare mobs, etc. The leveling aspect of the game is one of the things that needs to be changed yes I agree. The rest was great, teaming up to achieve a common goal for the most part in an OPEN world. Rather than running in circles for no reason and getting nothing but tokens.
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10-08-2013, 02:15 AMLisotteThe text doesn't give me a reason to kill the rabbits. It IS possible to have meaningful quest text/stories but I would prefer that to not reward exp for it. Make questing good and questing for the sake of questing. That would be different from grinding quests (same as grinding mobs but with travel involved).Quote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
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10-08-2013, 02:16 AMReslinIt is grinding but it's more disguised than simply sitting in one spot killing mobs for no reason other than exp. It doesn't "Feel" as grindy to most. It's why most people prefer quests to outright grind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feifonwong
Lisotte, I still disagree. There's very little point in picking up the quest if it doesn't reward exp. Because it means you do the quest and turn it in.. for what? After that you go killing mobs because.. it gives exp? That's not very immersive. Sorry, but you're in the minority here. If a game was released without quests and quest exp you'd see a massive backlash.
Here's a little experiment. Make a thread about "Removing quest experience entirely replaced with mob experience and forced grouping." And see how many people support it. Already even based off what the original poster stated, he's already being met with more resistance than support. -
10-08-2013, 02:17 AMyukikaze_yanagiflash news: they still drop materials, both in dungeons and open world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Battlewrench
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10-08-2013, 02:18 AMDevaking55
isnt that what FATES are for? i fail to *see* the point of any of this
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10-08-2013, 02:18 AMNadrojj
This game isn't meant for alt characters, the do everything on one character design is superior to leveling a ton of alts doing the same unlock missions countless times. You must not be very high level or are just plain doing it wrong if you are going to try to tell me that your gathering profession levels faster than any type of DOL/DOW.
FFXI was a great game, this is not ffxi, this is ffxiv, if you want ffxi, the servers are still up and running, why not log in and find what you are looking for. -
10-08-2013, 02:21 AMFeifonwongBecause that game is somewhat the same as this one. Or at least has evolved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadrojj
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10-08-2013, 02:25 AMLisotte
People don't do quests for the sake of going out and doing this awesome quest. They do these terrible quests disguising the mundane activity of solo grinding for the sake of the exp you get from it.Okay so WoW introduced this slick form of questing that transformed leveling in MMOs up to this point. Problem is that when most/all you do is quest anymore, you get REALLY sick of quests REAL fast and they don't matter any more. At some point you realise... "Wait this guy doesn't really need those 10 rabbit hides to clothe his family, the game needs me to go kill 10 rabbits to reward me with exp." The fact that this is a SOLO thing makes it all the worse; sure you can quest together with a friend, but that's not reflected in the quest, and if you both don't have the same quests it is worse for one of you. FFXI's exp parties had you in a GROUP, and you had to make sure you had a balanced group that was a well-oiled machine, with everyone doing their part. You'd be chatting as you did it and sometimes made friends with the people you grouped with.
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10-08-2013, 02:30 AMReslinI came from Everquest. I've also played quite a bit of FFXI. I don't want that in an mmo anymore. I don't want to be forced to group up to level. If I feel like grouping I'll do dungeons/fates. If I feel like playing solo I will do quests. I'm in the camp who wants to see more quests. Yes I'm doing the quests for exp but it gives my character incentive for being there. There is an in lore explanation why my character is killing the rabbits other than he hates white fluffy things with the burning intensity of a thousand suns. When I played Aion when it originally came out there came a point where you run out of quests in the late twenties. Guess what I did? Stopped playing. I wasn't alone in that regard. I'm done with the whole "Group up to kill mobs for exp." I'm also done with "spend 4 hours or more to gain one level." I'm also done with "No one on? Progress has become impossible. No one needs your class? Progress is impossible."Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisotte
You know what mmo tried to go back to that after WoW launched for a more "old school" feel? Vanguard Saga of Heroes. I don't even hear anyone mentioning it today at all. Sorry but you're not going to convince the majority going back to how it used to be is a good idea. The genre has moved past this. -
10-08-2013, 02:42 AMLisotte
Actually I have heard about vanguard recently... but I digress.
I agree with you 100% that you shouldn't be forced to group up to level. I don't want to group up to level all the time either; sometimes I DO want to go do things solo (when I don't have much time, or could be interrupted, or whatever).
However, in this game leveling is heavily skewed towards questing (till you run out of quests but that's another issue). Dungeons are kind of meh for exp. With the queue times you can't really say "I'm going to grind dungeons now for exp" unless you're a tank.
As for FATEs... they're such a terrible experience that why don't we leave them out of the discussion altogether. -
10-08-2013, 02:48 AMReslinAlright, now I'm starting to get more with what you're coming from. I apologize, I'm very used to people going "The current modern trend of mmo's isn't doing all that hot obviously the best solution is to go with the older model ones." which won't work either. IMO? We could use some more quests in the 40-50 range. I also think some of the quests should open back up when you pick a new class. I think dungeon exp should be brought up quite a bit. I also think dungeons should have more reward drops but.. that's just me. Right now honestly? There's no point in questing either. Fates are better than both dungeons and questing. Questing is better than dungeons. Dungeons are the red-headed step child here and they shouldn't be. They should be the best exp imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisotte
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10-08-2013, 02:49 AMRaskbuck
My impression of FFXIV is that it took things to an extreme. "I want everything NOW." kind of mentality.
The game hands you everything on a silver platter.
Want to get somewhere? Teleport everywhere, whenever you want!
Walking is too slow? Sprint makes you run at the same speed of a mount at level 1!
Need gear? Dungeons drop the equivalent of HQ Melded gear for free!
Classes are too hard? Don't worry! We have simplified combat in favor of a more casual-friendly approach.
Exploring high level areas is too dangerous? You can safely escape monsters even if they are 30 levels higher than you!
*sigh* Now don't get me wrong, I love the game and I will keep playing it. It just feels too... "floaty" for me. Dying is a joke, you don't have to work for your pre-endgame equipment, people already have relics within the first month... I feel it took things to an extreme. -
10-08-2013, 02:51 AMReslinWithout artificial caps on things people will always have end game items within a month. Realize, that unlike years ago most players are veteran mmo players now. If they re-released vanilla EQ? I promise you if I wanted to I could be raiding within a month or so. Note that I am pretty geared on my scholar but I also play 4-8 hours a day. This is considered "Casual." by many. I know people who put in 16 hours a day. No grind in the world unless it's ultra extreme is going to block them out of devouring the content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raskbuck
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10-08-2013, 03:01 AMRaskbuckCatering exclusively to the endgame will create yet another shallow gear treadmill with no real substance behind it. Some players are no different than a hungry locust looking to devour whatever content they can. Do we really need to focus the game on satisfying their needs and leave everyone else in the dark?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
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10-08-2013, 03:01 AMNadrojjIt's this way because they knew they had to cater to casual gamers, as they would be the ones who sub and help them recoup their losses from 1.0. I believe they've done a good job in adding difficult content to keep the people who consider themselves hardcore around long enough, relics/af2/allagan being the three exmaples. Patch 2.1 will offer new content for these players to blaze through then complain about not having anything to do again, all the while the people who play 5 hours a week will complain that things are still too difficult. They need to be able to cater to both sides to stay successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raskbuck
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10-08-2013, 03:06 AMRaskbuckIt's virtually impossible to keep everyone happy, sadly. While the intention to do so is nice, FFXIV will eventually need to take more risks in the future; otherwise it's risking to become a shallow game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadrojj
It has a lot of potential, don't get me wrong. I feel these next months will be essential to determine the game's direction.