DT writing is not even the biggest problem XIV has right now.

I'm not gonna try to argument that DT writing wasn't that bad. It was, maybe even worse than that. That said, I feel the biggest problem of FFXIV lies with the content.

EW did all it could to make the game dead. Lately, when I want to play XIV (like right now), I don't because basically, except 3 or 4 roulettes, there is nothing worth doing in the game. The feeling of wanting to play a game, and connecting to realise there is nothing you can do or leaving because you already did the few things you could do but still wanted to play is so frustrating. To me, it's the worst feeling a persistant game can give you. I'm all for the "not trying to keep you in at all cost", but I feel like a game like this one should have the possibility to stay in for as long as you want if you feel like it. Right now, you can't do that if you're not a fairly new player.

In the past, the role of keeping players that wanted play more was held by the relics and exploratory zone (I consider those as two things, because despite being related, exploratory zones, in their last iteration, had a lot more to offer than the relic). As perfectible as they were, exploratory zones gave a lot of side objectives/occupation (getting glams, farming for mount/haircuts, being decent leveling places, having their own side content - like the Ilkil farm or the medals in Bozja/Zadnor). We had a lot of discussions about those in the past, but most of them seemed to not put the light on why they were so important. This content was designed as engagement content, to keep you occupied between patches. It did it by giving you side objectives you could see yourself progress in at a decent pace (not like farming the pterodactyl or the bicolor gemstones mount). Changing the way relics work and removing exploratory zones would not have been such a problem if we were given another content that filled that role. (I would add it was one of the only content you could jump in/jump out as you wished, which is severly lacking in this game, but that's a discussion for another time).

Then came DT, and the horrible story killed any excitement, making the problem far more obvious. We had discussions about the relics and exploratory zones for 2 years, and SE doesn't seem to have understood that point, since it seems their calendar to give us content that fill that role hasn't changed. Our best guest it's gonna come in 7.25, in 7-8 month. With the excitement mostly dead, this is far too late. Which lead me to think they did not even understand why the removal of an exploratory zone and the change in relics were problematic. When you're ready to extend a lull that already lasted for 2 years for 10 more month, there is a big problem with your patch cycle planning.

I've been a mmo players for years, and I still don't understand how a professionnal team could forget so much about what the mmo genra and the mmo players. Sure at this point "classic" mmo players probably aren't the majority of their player base. But it's the people that make your game not dead between patches. The people that makes the population healthy enough all year long, and make possible for new players to begin anytime. It's no surprise the people that came during the WoW exodus mostly went back to WoW, because despite all its problem, WoW understand what a mmo is, and give you enough content to keep you occupied. XIV seem to have forgotten that.

I also realise this a problem only encountered by long time players/players with a lot of game time, yet I feel like trying to not bore those to death is as important as trying to get new customers or pleasing the raiders.

TL;DR
The reall FFXIV problem is the lack of shelf content, engagement content made to last a little by giving you side objectives you can see yourself progress in at a decent pace.

Job design encounter design is a priority for me.

The game isn't balance and too boring to run current content

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

I've been a mmo players for years, and I still don't understand how a professionnal team could forget so much about what the mmo genra and the mmo players.

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From what I was explained, Square Enix wants to sell you all the other IPs they have they offer so you can play them. Apparently, it works in Japan, and they don't consider the "small" fact that in NA/EU, people play games by genre, not by the game company that produces them.
So, essentially, they want you to play FFXIV, then take a break to play FFXVI and Dragonquest or whatever else they release, then come back for the next major patch. Completely pants-on-head logic, but there you have it.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

EW did all it could to make the game dead.

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EW didn't do anything the previous expansions didn't do before it. As you correctly pointed out, the only thing it didn't have was a relic grind and a new Bozja. That said, while providing some content, these instances didn't solve the problem you speak of.
Which is, indeed, THE fundamental problem of this game.

Square is so afraid of backlash from people who don’t like grinds they make the game almost impossible to actually play on a realistic schedule

This game doesn’t need to be RuneScape (if I want RuneScape grinds I’ll play RuneScape which coincidently I am doing because 14 has no content) but it needs to stop being afraid of doing literally anything because it’s moved from “play at your own speed” to “we are going to force you to play at our snails pace speed because we just aren’t going to give you anything to do”

Which is so so much worse

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

Job design encounter design is a priority for me.

The game isn't balance and too boring to run current content

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What would be the point of having perfect job design/encounter design if the content was one time only anyway. DT illustrated that in a way. Everyone was please with encounter design in the dungeons. until everyone had done them all 20 times and got bored with it, because running dungeon 20 times with no real objective in mind is boring.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Square is so afraid of backlash from people who don’t like grinds

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They are afraid of the QQ from the JP raiders who will throw a tantrum if they have ANYTHING else to do beside log in and raid. Quite pathetic really, on both sides.

Hasn’t content longevity always been a problem with this game? I’d say the fact they still haven’t done much of anything to address that means they’re like ‘naa this is good’ lol.

Which is absolutely insane if true, but then ‘absolutely insane’ seems to cover most of what they do these days lol…

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

What would be the point of having perfect job design/encounter design if the content was one time only anyway. DT illustrated that in a way. Everyone was please with encounter design in the dungeons. until everyone had done them all 20 times and got bored with it, because running dungeon 20 times with no real objective in mind is boring.

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I disagree. I just think running a dungeon 20 times for any reason in this game is boring. The encounter designs got better in DT, but dungeons are still the worst form of instanced battle content in this game IMO.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

except 3 or 4 roulettes, there is nothing worth doing in the game

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The game has always been a "one day and done" unless you are a collector, into social content (RP, glamour, venues, hunts, maps, maybe pvp for some) or progging raids long term in a static. They put rewards there to chase if you want to spend more time playing the game (and Yoshi-P has spoken of his philosophy of putting rewards behind things to make them worthwhile, like the mount behind Mentor Roulette).

As the years went by, they have also put more attention into Glamour and RP and decorations and things like Bard music and "life content" like Ocean Fishing and Island Sanctuary, as they noticed this was also something people did to spend more time in the game.

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Right now, you can't do that if you're not a fairly new player.

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I do it and I have more /playtime than most players. In fact, it's rare that anyone even comes close to mine. I'd even say I have many times the playtime of most players. Yet I don't have this issue.

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In the past, the role of keeping players that wanted play more was held by the relics and exploratory zone

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It is true that relics are a popular endgame content. I'd even say old relics remain a popular endgame content for many people years later (for example, ARR relics continued to be chased in Heavensward and Stormblood), and Heavensward relics for many years after that. This isn't just new players; there are a lot of jobs, so even veteran players didn't get round to all the relics in the respective expansion necessarily.

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We had discussions about the relics and exploratory zones for 2 years, and SE doesn't seem to have understood that point

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They did, because they have announced a new Field Operation (Shades' Triangle), Cosmic Exploration and a Savage alliance raid, all of which will be large-scale social content.

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Our best guest it's gonna come in 7.25, in 7-8 month.

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Pretty normal though. You could have made this exact post about Bozja or Eureka being in the .2 patches (I am sure people did exactly this).

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Which lead me to think they did not even understand why the removal of an exploratory zone and the change in relics were problematic.

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Developing things takes time though.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They did, because they have announced a new Field Operation (Shades' Triangle), Cosmic Exploration and a Savage alliance raid, all of which will be large-scale social content.
Pretty normal though. You could have made this exact post about Bozja or Eureka being in the .2 patches (I am sure people did exactly this).
Developing things takes time though.

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I don't like those "I'm gonna single out your point so I can ignore the big picture you wanted to point out". If you don't have that problem, good for you but that doesn't mean it's not a problem for others anyway.

Yes, they announced Field operation. But the fact it's in 7-8 month let me think they didn't have a deep analysis on why the backlash was so huge. This was my point, a mmo need some content to keep you occupied if you want it. The fact they think they can still go 7-8 month (once again, we got no dates, but it's estimation from the previous expansions) with no such content (we don't even have the previous expension one to finish) goes in the sense they decided to re-add one without thinking of the reason of the backlash. They had 2 years to think about it, and plan something to fill that void in the content, and seemingly chose not to (may they will announce somthing in the next live letter, but we'll see). Sure it takes time, but let's not pretend the complaints weren't there for the past 2 years.
Maybe the cosmic exploration will fill that gap, but after the island sanctuary and cosmic exploration, I have my doubts. But I'd gladly be wrong.

Also savage is a niche, from the few hints we have (lucky bancho numbers or things like that), it's around 30% of players in japan, and between 3 and 15% of the players in the west, depending of the server. Savage (hear high end raid/content) are an important part of the mmo formula, but trying to do like they were a content for everyone is just dishonnest.