#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

I join the movement, apart from an Excogitation from time to time, no longer really need me in the dungeon, and spamming my only dp spell quickly becomes boring...

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I also find it surprising that people don't take more issues with the actual heals too. Those are pretty boring in their own right, mostly amounting to "Hit oGCD before/after damage occurs" with maybe a succor or a medica 2 if it's really spicy damage. My only other healing experience is WoW and oh buddy are those healing kits far more involved (and used far more cause there's more damage). Compare that to a Preservation Evoker:

https://i.imgur.com/OhgWevC.png

Night and day. And mind that in high end WoW content, you HAVE to make full use of your abilities to meet healing requirements.

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WoW healing is amazing and I miss it. Too bad WoW is worse in almost every other aspect. I also don't think the FFXIV server tick is fast enough for healing to ever feel as satisfying and responsive.

Hell this game doesn't even support mouse over healing properly. You either have to use clunky macros, or download sketchy plugins.

"/party Hello! and thanks for joining. This macro was built in case you never used the 4-T strat.
/party Dodge Rathalos attacks as much as possible. Use CDs and skills to heal yourself and avoid using potions until phase 2.
/party Don't pull ads other than the Coeurl; let Rathalos kill them and when marked approach them to hit them.
/party We gotta decide who's going to tank Garula and who's going to mount;
/party For phase 2, stack alone in the edges (so fire puddles won't bother us) and use potions as needed.
/party If a person who ran out of potions gets marked for stack, feel free to use lb.
/party Also, before the fight begins, I'll use a buffed Shake It Off to protect us from roar."

This is a Macro for Rathalos Extreme I created back when it debuted on v4.36, released on August 2018. Literally six years ago. People using the 4 tank strategy were the fastest ones to get all the rewards. This will probably come out as rude, but this shows just how little about the game people complaining about a healer not being needed for an optimal MSQ dungeon setup know for a fact. But anyway, with how badly people usually play on pubs, you need not to worry. Healers are not an ounce more useful or useless than they've always been. :)

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

I feel like what is most worrying are the people (especially progression groups) saying they are (or will, with the new Dawntrail updates) blacklist people showing support for this thread. I feel that could be at least a little concerning for anyone who doesn't have a solid group of friends to play with yet.

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My first response is "let them" because I feel like that is probably best for both parties if they feel that strongly about it.

I know my biggest reason for joining the strike myself has stemmed from a few interactions I've had as a healer plus the day to day gameplay. When I was starting my Savage journey (mind you, I haven't' completed one yet because of reasons, half of them being that I was still a little to new to get into that content imo) the group pretty much asked me to be a healer since that was the "least needed role" and I would have more opportunities to mess up. There was casts that I did (Pneuma) that I was kinda made fun of for casting because it wasn't the dot + 1 + 1 + 1 (ect) and ogcd heals. I like to be as fair as I can in posts, so in fairness this is when I was still more of a sprout and learning, but it still kinda plays in my head.

There was other content I was doing that (treasure maps) that friends nearly begged me to not be healer on because they were able to heal themselves good enough and wanted the extra dps. Granted for this one, I can see that more but there have been comments of "healers are needed in ALL content" and I laugh at that a bit.

So ya, if people want to blacklist me because I was wanting things to be a bit different and not playing a job that I find boring, then sure I wish them well in their endeavors

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

"/party Hello! and thanks for joining. This macro was built in case you never used the 4-T strat.
/party Dodge Rathalos attacks as much as possible. Use CDs and skills to heal yourself and avoid using potions until phase 2.
/party Don't pull ads other than the Coeurl; let Rathalos kill them and when marked approach them to hit them.
/party We gotta decide who's going to tank Garula and who's going to mount;
/party For phase 2, stack alone in the edges (so fire puddles won't bother us) and use potions as needed.
/party If a person who ran out of potions gets marked for stack, feel free to use lb.
/party Also, before the fight begins, I'll use a buffed Shake It Off to protect us from roar."

This is a Macro for Rathalos Extreme I created back when it debuted on v4.36, released on August 2018. Literally six years ago. People using the 4 tank strategy were the fastest ones to get all the rewards. This will probably come out as rude, but this shows just how little about the game people complaining about a healer not being needed for an optimal MSQ dungeon setup know for a fact. But anyway, with how badly people usually play on pubs, you need not to worry. Healers are not an ounce more useful or useless than they've always been. :)

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To be fair, Rathalos is a bad example because it has a whole phase where you literally cannot heal other people and have to use the potions. And that was to make it more accurate to Monster Hunter to keep it on theme.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I can't blame them honestly.
If people wants to prog a raid they might not want someone who might not (enjoy) take their role seriously if they aren't satisfied with what they currently got to play with.
They might see a Healer who support the strike (showing they aren't happy with healers) as a reliability in the group dynamic.

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If you compare the average tone of the person who joined the discussion in this thread, and that agreed with the strike. To the tone of the average person who was mostly ambiguous. To the tone of the average person that was strongly against it. I wouldn't worry about the people who agree with the strike, or the group that is ambiguous, as the source of problems for a group dynamic.

And looking at how some of the people who disagree have acted in this thread: Multiple people spend page after page arguing that people who joined the strike should just unsubrcibe. Others tried to impose all sorts of arbitrary rules on the strike, to try convince people to stop. Others completely dismissed the healer role as weak, and argued people switch to tank if they wanted to play a proper role. There was the usual gatekeeping by setting requirements who's opinions are and aren't worth listening to.

And most likely some other stuff I forgot. The point is, people have tried a lot of weird stuff to try get people to stop the strike. I think the blacklisting is far more likely an extension of that behavior

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

To be fair, Rathalos is a bad example because it has a whole phase where you literally cannot heal other people and have to use the potions. And that was to make it more accurate to Monster Hunter to keep it on theme.

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If Rathalos Extreme is a bad example, then so is an under level cap MSQ dungeon. My point is if the people who are complaining about this right now knew more about the game and were long time players, they'd know it's not something new and has never really been disruptive to the gameplay loop as they're claiming it will be all of a sudden.

This thread kinda proves how great and welcoming community the game has.

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

If Rathalos Extreme is a bad example, then so is an under level cap MSQ dungeon. My point is if the people who are complaining about this right now knew more about the game and were long time players, they'd know it's not something new and has never really been disruptive to the gameplay loop as they're claiming it will be all of a sudden.

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And saying that people are only starting to complain now is disingenuous, because healers have been complaining about this since the launch of Shadowbringers. It's only now that we're getting some kind of actual traction on the issue.

Examples: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-healer-issues -Started 05-09-2020

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-play-Ultimate 02-19-2022

Etc. This is NOT something that just came up all of a sudden.

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

This thread kinda proves how great and welcoming community the game has.

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faux nice fanbases are worse then overtly toxic ones because at least theres a clear filter at the start.

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

they'd know it's not something new and has never really been disruptive to the gameplay loop as they're claiming it will be all of a sudden

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Nobody is claiming it's all of a sudden. The healer problems have been brewing for years. And there have been huge discussions about the healer role for years. If nothing is improved some of that discontent will eventually spill over. That will most likely happen after some trigger (in this case, the reaction to DT), but that doesn't mean the trigger was the underlying cause for the "sudden" complaints.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

And saying that people are only starting to complain now is disingenuous, because healers have been complaining about this since the launch of Shadowbringers. It's only now that we're getting some kind of actual traction on the issue.

Examples: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-healer-issues -Started 05-09-2020

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-play-Ultimate 02-19-2022

Etc. This is NOT something that just came up all of a sudden.

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And yet, there was no such commotion when Cleric Stance or Tank stance dancing was removed from the game on Stormblood. I've never said people were not complaining about this before, I've said they're acting like it's going to become more disruptive all of a sudden. I hated when Cleric Stance was changed into an useless role action. In fact, that was precisely when I end up changing my main role to Tank back then.
I do agree that Healers could be made more fun to play on casual content. But many of the points presented are bad and the whole way this is being carried is stupid and desperately looking for any possible ways to get the "actual traction" you've mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

And yet, there was no such commotion when Cleric Stance or Tank stance dancing was removed from the game on Stormblood. I've never said people were not complaining about this before, I've said they're acting like it's going to become more disruptive all of a sudden. I hated when Cleric Stance was changed into an useless role action. In fact, that was precisely when I end up changing my main role to Tank back then.
I do agree that Healers could be made more fun to play on casual content. But many of the points presented and the whole way this is being carried is stupid and desperately looking for any possible ways to get the "actual traction" you've mentioned.

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The only reason this thread has attention is people actually getting mad about others deciding not to play jobs they don't like and doing all kinds of mental gymnastics to make it out like this is more than that. Stop getting hung up in the word "strike." This has no end goal or stated demands, only suggestions on what could alleviate the dissatisfaction and make people want to be healers again. Suggestions that have been given for years and ignored. People are acting desperate around here but it's not who you think.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

faux nice fanbases are worse then overtly toxic ones because at least theres a clear filter at the start.

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Played in 1.0, got invited to and played in the alpha and beta of 2.0. The community has never been good in this game, or at least never been better than any other online mmo. Sure sprouts get a bit of a pass every now and again but if you say you are new to a dungeon in wow you will get around about the same pass.

People that play this game like to -redacted- ride on themselves it seems like. They seem to have the need to compensate for their parents never loving them or some such by making themselves seem more self important and kind when they are just like anyone else, an -redacted- hole.

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

"/party Hello! and thanks for joining. This macro was built in case you never used the 4-T strat.
/party Dodge Rathalos attacks as much as possible. Use CDs and skills to heal yourself and avoid using potions until phase 2.
/party Don't pull ads other than the Coeurl; let Rathalos kill them and when marked approach them to hit them.
/party We gotta decide who's going to tank Garula and who's going to mount;
/party For phase 2, stack alone in the edges (so fire puddles won't bother us) and use potions as needed.
/party If a person who ran out of potions gets marked for stack, feel free to use lb.
/party Also, before the fight begins, I'll use a buffed Shake It Off to protect us from roar."

This is a Macro for Rathalos Extreme I created back when it debuted on v4.36, released on August 2018. Literally six years ago. People using the 4 tank strategy were the fastest ones to get all the rewards. This will probably come out as rude, but this shows just how little about the game people complaining about a healer not being needed for an optimal MSQ dungeon setup know for a fact. But anyway, with how badly people usually play on pubs, you need not to worry. Healers are not an ounce more useful or useless than they've always been. :)

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Why do patently false takes like these get spread all over the place?

No one was doing 1T3D runs in Pharos Sirius. People also didn't think doing 1T3D runs in dungeons like The Burn was worth it.

This is unlike in DT when it is both efficient to do so and also simple as long as you know how to use your tank CDs.

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Originally Posted by Len_

The only reason this thread has attention is people actually getting mad about others deciding not to play jobs they don't like and doing all kinds of mental gymnastics to make it out like this is more than that. Stop getting hung up in the word "strike." This has no end goal or stated demands, only suggestions on what could alleviate the dissatisfaction and make people want to be healers again. Suggestions that have been given for years and ignored. People are acting desperate around here but it's not who you think.

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Right, then there's absolutely no need to use the very words we need to "stop getting hung up in". That goes both ways; the people writing the content could be more mindful of the way they're trying to gain traction if they don't really mean it. A literal Manifesto was put together. I'm not replying because I'm "desperate" it will result in actions such as Second Wind being removed or something similar — I know the devs from a game I've been playing for so long — I've been replying simply because I don't relate to the way it's being done or many of the points that are being made, even if I do think healers are not as fun to play as they could be.

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

And yet, there was no such commotion when Cleric Stance or Tank stance dancing was removed from the game on Stormblood.

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You didn't complain when I slapped you in the face the first time... so...

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

I've said they're acting like it's going to become more disruptive all of a sudden

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Who is saying the state of healers will suddenly cause more disruption? The complaints I've seen are all "healers have had issues for years, and we've had enough of being ignored".

For a well written explanation what the strike is about, look at the opening post

And I get a feeling some people have this inherent dislike of strikes. Like "the idea is fine, but a STRIKE?!". I don't understand the problem with a strike, is that maybe some cultural thing?

I would say the only Healers that are allowed to complain are the AST mains. They have been through at least 4 or 5 COMPLETE reworks including this one for DT. Those are the ones that really have the right to complain 😂

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

Why do patently false takes like these get spread all over the place?

No one was doing 1T3D runs in Pharos Sirius. People also didn't think doing 1T3D runs in dungeons like The Burn was worth it.

This is unlike in DT when it is both efficient to do so and also simple as long as you know how to use your tank CDs.

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Thank you for proving my point. This only shows setups like this are highly situational and non-disruptive. So being able to do stuff like Xenosys did has nothing to do with making Healers more fun to play or not. Besides, WAR didn't have as much self-healing as it does now until 5.0. Of course this wouldn't have been possible in Pharos Sirius. I said it's been a thing for a long time, not since 1.0.

I think it was propaganda from companies slowly manipulating public sentiment about the term "strike." At least in the U.S. unions are heavily discouraged, you have to a work hard to move up mindset, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

Thank you for proving my point. This only shows setups like this are highly situational and non-disruptive. So being able to do stuff like Xenosys did has nothing to do with making Healers more fun to play or not.

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Did you miss the last sentence I wrote?

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

This is unlike in DT when it is both efficient to do so and also simple as long as you know how to use your tank CDs.

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

Besides, WAR didn't have as much self-healing as it does now until 5.0. Of course this wouldn't have been possible in Pharos Sirius.

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Uh, that's literally one of the issues that we are pointing out.

I think you should actually read what people's issues are first.

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Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

Based on what I've heard/read over and over from people hostile to this thread, it's that a "strike" sounds hyperbolic and ridiculous, as if equating this game to a terrible 1800s coal mine.

Some supporters say that the term got the thread the attention which the topic of healing needed, but others say its verbiage attracted unnecessary hostility that muddies the message.

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That indeed sounds like a cultural difference then. Where I live a strike isn't all that special, and you'd be laughed at in your face if you claimed strike is a 1800s coal mine thing.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

You didn't complain when I slapped you in the face the first time... so...

Who is saying the state of healers will suddenly cause more disruption? The complaints I've seen are all "healers have had issues for years, and we've had enough of being ignored".

For a well written explanation what the strike is about, look at the opening post

And I get a feeling some people have this inherent dislike of strikes. Like "the idea is fine, but a STRIKE?!". I don't understand the problem with a strike, is that maybe some cultural thing?

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That's because I didn't take it as a slap in the face, especially because I knew other people would like this change. I'm not such a softie as to rise a strike because the role I'm playing doesn't fit my liking. Guess I've grown used to adapt with how many korean old school MMOs I've played.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I think it was propaganda from companies slowly manipulating public sentiment about the term "strike." At least in the U.S. unions are heavily discouraged, you have to a work hard to move up mindset, etc etc.

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That's funny, because I'm not from the U.S. I'm not even North American or European. I'm from a country where strikes are held a lot more common than you think - twice a week or more, with public services. But I don't remember giving other people permission to be nosy like that anyway.

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Originally Posted by Rsmeers

That's funny, because I'm not from the U.S. I'm not even North American or European. I'm from a country where strikes are held a lot more common than you think - twice a week or more, with public services. But I don't remember giving other people permission to be nosy like that anyway.

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I can't speak on other countries, I was only giving a possible explanation for the U.S. sorry if that didn't come across!

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

I think the worst part is how these raiders continuously keep stalking Gemina's logs (and others) and immediately dismiss any claims without providing good argument -- especially non-main healer raiders who started in ShB.

This is why Yoshi-P will always be against fflogs and dps meters.

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They do that and conveniently ignore anyone who has logs they cannot shame to make a point.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I can't speak on other countries, I was only giving a possible explanation for the U.S. sorry if that didn't come across!

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No problem.

I just don't get why it should shock anyone that a WAR and three RDMs played by folks that are obviously members of a static that clears Ultimates for breakfast would handle a first-tier new content dungeon with no problems. They're probably rocking their 660 gear and weapons, and even if not, these are people who know how to play their non-healer roles so well they can go without. Why is this surprising? This game is balanced around significantly harder content than a 4-player story dungeon.

I heal roulettes because I like helping and I like meeting new people. I like the challenge when new tanks or DPS roll through and need a little healing help. But I'm happier when the tank and DPS are skilled enough that I can do a bit of DPS and not have to worry so much about them.

I've mained SCH since 2.0 (...or, at least, since I hit ACN 30). I've never felt useless. I just don't get what all the fuss is about. Hell, SCH is getting an AOE DOT back, and I'm all for that.

If y'all want to strike, hey, knock yourselves out, but it's just going to mean I get even faster SCH queues and healer bonuses. It's just going to mean that players who want to try healing are going to get an opportunity to learn, as other jobs will probably be more forgiving of them since they get a healer at all.

Maybe all of the people going on strike are doing a service to new healers by getting out of the way and letting people who want to play to engage more.

So... have fun? Good luck with the strike and all, but I'm gonna go do the role I enjoy playing.

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Originally Posted by EinherjarLucian

So... have fun? Good luck with the strike and all, but I'm gonna go do the role I enjoy playing.

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No one asked you not to.

If it makes you feel better, I do not plan on blacklisting anyone participating in this strike even though I do not agree with some of the points made. You all are allowed to have your opinions and thoughts, that's free will.

That said, to expect the whole player base to agree with you is a bit of a reach, as with such a large player base there will be a variety of opinions. I have stated my thoughts, and I attempted to do so without hostility, so please keep that in mind that not everyone that disagrees with the strike will be out for blood. I do feel that all tanks should have some form of sustain or self healing as it does help a lot in content, and was thrilled when pld (my main) got it in Endwalker. I do agree that war has a little too much, but pld is in a good spot, and gnb/drk needs to have the same amount of sustain or a little less to help them be more efficient. But that's my opinion, and I do not expect everyone to follow it. So expecting me, a pld main, to want to give up being able to save a run if the healer bites it is a little disheartening.

Yes, healers do need some extra love thrown at them as far as their kit goes, but again it goes to one of my previous comments, "Be careful what you wish for", some of the things asked for in this strike, if granted, may make some content unplayable for the very casual players. At the end of the day, if the very casual people have a super hard time clearing content, or new players even, then it may result in the player base decreasing. Yes all players should learn how to use their kit, but everyone has a different learning speed, or in some cases hampered by disabilites. We are only as strong as the lowest among us, and some of these requests of the devs may make it extremely difficult for them to shine or want to play.

Mindfulness of the full situation, the full player base is important here. We were all sprouts once.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

honestly I think biggest attention you will get is if enough players switch to something other than healer all together.

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Well the low healer numbers is why they stripped healers in the first place. Maybe if this makes more people realize that healers aren't that fun to play in most content, then we'll actually get somewhere.
That does seem to be what the devs listen to.

might be time to actually use Trusts.

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Originally Posted by AuraflareRising

Yes, healers do need some extra love thrown at them as far as their kit goes, but again it goes to one of my previous comments, "Be careful what you wish for", some of the things asked for in this strike, if granted, may make some content unplayable for the very casual players. At the end of the day, if the very casual people have a super hard time clearing content, or new players even, then it may result in the player base decreasing. Yes all players should learn how to use their kit, but everyone has a different learning speed, or in some cases hampered by disabilites. We are only as strong as the lowest among us, and some of these requests of the devs may make it extremely difficult for them to shine or want to play.

Mindfulness of the full situation, the full player base is important here. We were all sprouts once.

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Do we have to keep the skill ceiling close to the floor because of accessibility? The best design has always been a low barrier of entry with a high skill ceiling. I am fully on board for keeping the floor low but the people playing at ground level shouldn't shackle everyone else to the ground as well. Also what about DPS, shouldn't they start greatly reducing complexity in favor of accessibility? They (devs) just told us they won't. Why? Do new players not play DPS? Do people with disabilities only play Healer?

It's strange how one role is singled out because of this.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Do we have to keep the skill ceiling close to the floor because of accessibility? The best design has always been a low barrier of entry with a high skill ceiling. I am fully on board for keeping the floor low but the people playing at ground level shouldn't shackle everyone else to the ground as well. Also what about DPS, shouldn't they start greatly reducing complexity in favor of accessibility? They (devs) just told us they won't. Why? Do new players not play DPS? Do people with disabilities only play Healer?

It's strange how one role is singled out because of this.

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Dungeons are the skill floor

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Originally Posted by AuraflareRising

That said, to expect the whole player base to agree with you is a bit of a reach, as with such a large player base there will be a variety of opinions.

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Are these people who expect the whole playerbase to agree in the room right now? Even from the initial thread post:

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I would like to make this the official thread for those in support of a healer strike as a collective voice to the dev team to express the dissatisfaction with the continued direction the game has gone concerning healer gameplay and what is an arrived consensus that has deemed to be a negligence towards the role, as well as the players who main it.

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Emphasis mine. I guess there is the word consensus in there, which some people may misinterpret as *every single person* agrees or argue it is overstating the viewpoint (despite how incredibly popular this thread has become not just on the forums but outside of it as well), but I don't see anyone posting in a way where they want to compel people to participate or agree in seriousness. I also don't put much value in semantic arguments either. While you sound like you're very reasonable, I'm just very confused on where you actually are getting these impressions from?

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Originally Posted by PintyMcEars

Dungeons are the skill floor

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Skill floor is being able to do the primary job you're signing up for: healing and keeping your subject(s) alive. To do more than just that means you're already going above your skill floor. Today's ceiling is being able to spam your 1 nuke button ad nauseam (75% - 95% of time), and maybe throw in your other non-healing button if you feel like to (which we either lacking or have no need to, or combination of both), while fulfilling your primary duty to heal (less than 10%, if you're with a WAR then maybe 1-3% lmao).

Misshapen chair once said that if all healers get reworked into something more engaging, then one healer should stay the same for the players who like that kind of gameplay.
For those who enjoy healers as they are now, would this be a good compromise? Every healer who enjoys the endless Glare spam just stays on White Mage while the other healers actually get interesting damage buttons to press?
We've already got Gunbreaker with a damaging rotation that's far more tightly executed than Warrior, and if anyone complains about GNB being too hard, they're rightly told to git gud, or play a different tank, because GNB mains enjoy it like it is. New Summoner is practically a Simon-Says that can run laps around the arena while Black Mage is sitting there in their circle actually having fun.
The main issue this solution might bring is the White Mage mains upset about needing to abandon their job for something more engaging. Personally, I think they should re-work the "class" system, where for normal content, stoneless classes like Conjurer are viable and get bare-bones skills up to around max level. Decent output at a basic level, but without the potential that a Job has, which would encourage them to actually branch out and try White Mage.

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Originally Posted by GartredZW

Misshapen chair once said that if all healers get reworked into something more engaging, then one healer should stay the same for the players who like that kind of gameplay.

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While I do agree in spirit with the idea, even a simple playstyle needs more than a single spammable spell and a DoT. Taking the warrior example, it still has Beast Gauge, Infuriate, Fell Cleave reducing Infuriate cooldown, 2 combos (4 buttons), Inner Release, and a couple of filler oGCDs. Even a "simple" healer should be able to handle a new gauge, or a proc or 2, or a maintainable buff, etc.

Oh hey OP you made it to reddit, they're calling you out with parses and say you just need to do savage and ultimate if you're not happy with healers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitpostXIV...iv_pinkertons/

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Oh hey OP you made it to reddit, they're calling you out with parses and say you just need to do savage and ultimate if you're not happy with healers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitpostXIV...iv_pinkertons/

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Raiders: haha this person didn't do savage/ultimate what the hell can they say about healing
Healers: provides logs from savage and ultimates
Raiders: I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that

Them looking at just Gemina not having parses shows the community's true image. If you need parses to criticize boring healer gameplay, then the argument holds no merit. I find it very strange they only focus on Gemina, but ignore other raiders who share similar thoughts regarding healer issues.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Oh hey OP you made it to reddit, they're calling you out with parses and say you just need to do savage and ultimate if you're not happy with healers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitpostXIV...iv_pinkertons/

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And once again we have circled back to the "just play harder content" argument to which I'd reply that you shouldn't have to do the hardest content in the game to have as much fun as other classes in normal content relatively speaking. (Yes, normal mode is not as challenging but healers are not even at the level of fun/lack thereof that other classes are on.)

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Raiders: haha this person didn't do savage/ultimate what the hell can they say about healing
Healers: provides logs from savage and ultimates
Raiders: I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that

Them looking at just Gemina not having parses shows the community's true image. If you need parses to criticize boring healer gameplay, then the argument holds no merit. I find it very strange they only focus on Gemina, but ignore other raiders who share similar thoughts regarding healer issues.

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The ironic thing is, the first comment still points out that even the uh "shit players" (their words not mine) notice how bad the role is.

Play savage/ultimate and say the role is boring: "But poor Johnny Casual can't play the dungeons if you give him extra DPS spells he can ignore if he struggles to heal!"

Play casual content and say the role is boring: "You should go play ultimate, dungeons don't matter, ignore that we still have to press Glare for 60-80% of the fight."

It's a never ending cycle that can't be won and shifts the goal posts.