Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

Just push buttons.

If I'm expected to be pushing 1 button every 2.5s give or take (much more than that if you include ogcds), I expect you to push at least 1 button every 2.5s cast times allowing.

If this makes you overheal and pull aggro, I'm still gonna boot you for being disruptive to the run.

Unless you're okay with me hitting my aggro combo once every minute on bosses or hit a few AOE aggro generators a few times per pack and sit there AFK the rest of the time. I'm doing my job. I'm tanking the mobs. As long as aggro doesn't go haywire, it's fine right?

Typically I DPS when I'm more comfortable with the mechanics of the dungeon and am able to know what's coming, meaning I know when everyone's going to take a big hit and need a quick heal. Otherwise I DPS when I can. However, I will not kick a healer for not DPSing. To me, that seems wrong. Let them play how they want, the dungeon is only going to take 30-40 mins max anyhow. As long as I'm still alive, we're good.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Alternatively he could just revert the MND=HealerDamage change and just lock Cleric Stance out in any 4-man or 8-man instance.

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This would make it worse. This would promote people standing around and waiting for their job to actually be needed instead of active participation in content.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

asszise could been used as ogcd during the swiftcast recast to free up clipping and overkill. Your teammates where also way better then KisaiTenshi's

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Oh yeah, I know! Like I said this was one of the first time's I really used WHM back then and then again it was last year, so I improved a lot. The reason I used this was to show that person or people in general it's easy to pull off and there is no myth as no downtime as healer, but yes I agree with what you said. However, if I remember correctly the NIN wasn't that great, he was actually below me on term of DPS from what I remember and got told. But didn't bother me tbh, he was pretty new I think so it's totally fine!

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Edit: But also, I do hope that eventually have more patience. I know things can be frustrating, but keep a cool head can make things better I believe.

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Well, many people including myself are actually patient, believe it or not. There is so much limit we have however, because many players are stubborn. It's like the guy at the gym who got ''offended'' that someone corrected him at, since they clearly didn't want that person to get a injury. While in game, we want players to get better, use their toolkit they have in game and so on. When it's offensive to ask or tell someone to get better, it's not our fault, it's their fault for taking it wrong. But however it also depends how you approach them and tell them how to improve, which I agree some people go a bit too hard on the player.

Anyways... when players in here or in game knows they can do things but flat out refuse, they already accepted how to play and that means they already flat out refuse to improve, which triggers many in here TBH.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

There's nothing you can say that will change Mature's view on that matter. We already tried, trust me.

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Like few others and myself said before, people flat out refuse to improve, which is a choice and acceptable. But if they demand people to improve or play on their part, they should do the same. People are stubborn and they know they can improve, they just wish not to for serval reason. Then we eventually see how they play and it's all about having ''fun''. Fun is subjective in a group.... everyone should have fun not only 1 person.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Not really sure of the relevance of that, particularly since he mentions using Role skills and healers have no dpsing Role skills.

Also doesn't change what was said in the Mr Happy interview.

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I see the relevance, it expands upon Yoshi Ps view, and discredits the Mr Happy interview slightly (Yoshi P discrediting his own words, nothing against Happy). The cleric stance change was intended to make healer DPS more accessible, Yoshi P used the specific example of swiftcast holy and going straight back into healing. Their intent is for healer DPS to be a more fluid experience, and it is outright stated that healer DPS will be required for clearing raids close to minimum ilvl.

We can use this to gain a broader view of Yoshi Ps opinion. He understands that healer DPS is optimal, and should be done, however he doesnt want to say that because dungeons are casual content for casual players, so his answer is babying them in a sense, he is saying "yes it is the best way to play, and we have designed the system to make that playstyle accessible and fluid, but you don't have to if you don't want mr casual, it's ok to do what you want in casual content, because casual content is designed for the lowest common denominator"

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

This would make it worse. This would promote people standing around and waiting for their job to actually be needed instead of active participation in content.

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That's the point behind my facetious comment and that is if the development team seriously wanted to cap this discussion, they'd have the means to do so. They're choosing not to take such dramatic methods and allowing healers the choice to choose how they play and giving a rather large range of what they deem to be acceptable and unacceptable.

It's just the community as a whole can't seem to accept that players happen to have varying levels of skill, comfort, confidence, and game knowledge that is suitable for this rather large range.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

This would make it worse. This would promote people standing around and waiting for their job to actually be needed instead of active participation in content.

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Would also make AST the only healer worth playing

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Alternatively he could just revert the MND=HealerDamage change and just lock Cleric Stance out in any 4-man or 8-man instance. There are a few things the development team could do to "shut the discussion down" but I continue to remain happy that they're allowing us the option to do what we desire.

It's just a shame this discussion continues to generate as much hate as it does when it shouldn't.

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They do this and healer queues plummet. It would also reinforcement more aggressive mindsets. I, for one, wouldn't even hesitate dropping tank stance after the initial aggro gen because it's no longer a DPS loss to the healer.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

They do this and healer queues plummet. It would also reinforcement more aggressive mindsets. I, for one, wouldn't even hesitate dropping tank stance after the initial aggro gen because it's no longer a DPS loss to the healer.

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Pretty much. Overall, it's not a solution I'm happy with if they went that route. *Shrugs* However, if it puts a halt to these kinda discussions I'm more than happy to see it occur too, sadly.

He might have said "DPS is optional" but he also said at some point in the past "You should always do something".

So if there is literally nothing going on, no DMG going out so the Healer can do "something", i personally see no reason that he could not throw some stuff at the Boss/Mob or whatever.
Since they made it so that the DMG scales with "Mind" now as a Healer u can do stuff like "dealing DMG" way easier then before without any consequences.

And because of all the stuff i have typed i am still annoyed by healer who insted of doing some casts ,like "dealing DMG", jumping around with he hand in their....
I personally do not care but do not expect me that i will ever call you a good player. (literally standing still and doing absolutely nothing is simply lazy/getting carried through)

People tend to underestimate the healers potential dmg he can do, however i can already see the Horror of healers holding on to that statemant Yoshi P did.

Playing just by the basics might work for you but expect backlash at you if you are inside a "Raid/Primal Fight/Whatever" where you could contribute something to the Raid DPS to make things easier and u insist to refuse cause "but thats what Yoshi said".
It is not the right thing to look at it that way. it is that simple.