Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

I have seen the queue go as high as 15-25 minutes as a Tank, 35 minutes as a Dps, 15 minutes as a Healer. We can't use personal data to paint a picture of how the queues are going.

The only data we have is they gave more rewards for 4.3 which means they want more players to queue for this roulette.

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35 minutes is nothing. I regularly wait way more than that queuing for trials as DPS.

The real issue here is that a bunch of players want the rewards from MSQ roulette and don't want to wait for the new players who want to see the content complete with the cutscenes. Now, new players are getting to watch the cutscenes and do the boss fights as well. Sure, there are probably some new players who don't care about the cutscenes but there were enough who did to warrant this change.

The whole point of this roulette was to get more players to queue for these dungeons so that new players could finish them. If, as some people claim, there aren't enough people doing this roulette now for the new players to get a reasonable queue, why can I get into these dungeons in anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes consistently?

I also keep seeing replies that SE should make these dungeons single player and then there are other replies that if these dungeons were made single player then the roulette would be no more. Are some people not reading or does this fact escape them? It seems to me that the only thing that SE could do that would please all of the players would be to rework these dungeons and remove the cutscenes that break up the dungeons entirely. Who knows. They might do that some day but I am not counting on it.

So either do the roulette with the changes or do something else. Enough people would appear to find this roulette worthwhile as it is now.

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

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Where is it okay for a new player to wait as long as 35+ minutes and then enter a 30 to 1hr dungeon depending on the party. That is a long amount of time for one dungeon. Each player could have drastically different times I heard some new players say it took them as long as two hours to complete the entire dungeon.

Players wouldn't complain about the cutscenes if they were not so long.

Your time is irrelvant since it varies from player to player, You can take 5-30 minutes the next person may take even longer depending on the time of day they play, how good the party is, who afks ect..

I don't have a preference on if it is solo or party but it should not take a new player this long just to complete these dungeon.

We don't know if enough people would find this roulette worthwhile because we don't have data. This is the same line people said last patch and yet they buffed the rewards.

Edit: New players can still be left behind it takes 15 seconds for the gate to close, 30 seconds to force teleport them in and if they have slow pcs even longer since they may still be in cutscenes. What exactly does forced cutscenes solve if they can still be locked out and miss the main story fights due to how fast the bosses die.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Where is it okay for a new player to wait as long as 35+ minutes and then enter a 30 to 1hr dungeon depending on the party. That is a long amount of time for one dungeon. Each player could have drastically different times I heard some new players say it took them as long as two hours to complete the entire dungeon.

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My argument is that other instances take just as long to get into, especially as DPS. Every time I went into a dungeon or a trial for the first time, I did so as BLM and waited for 35+ minutes fairly often. So the issue there is that the DPS queues are too long, not just Castrum Meridianum and Paetorium.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Players wouldn't complain about the cutscenes if they were not so long.

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So what to do about the players who did these dungeons for the first time and were getting upset that they were being forced to either skip the cutscenes or miss out on the combat? Like I said already, a rework of the dungeons to get rid of the cutscenes in the middle could help solve the issue for both the new players and the people doing the roulette but I doubt SE will make such a change any time soon.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Your time is irrelvant since it varies from player to player, You can take 5-30 minutes the next person may take even longer depending on the time of day they play, how good the party is, who afks ect..

I don't have a preference on if it is solo or party but it should not take a new player this long just to complete these dungeon.

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How does the skill of the party have anything to do with the queue times?

Sure the queue could take longer for some jobs some of the time but as long as the queues are similar in length to the rest of the instances, I fail to see how this specific roulette is the problem. Like I said above, the problem would seem to be long DPS queues in general. If I can get into MSQ roulette in the middle of the day or the middle of the night with a comparable time to how long it takes me to get into the other roulettes, MSQ roulette isn't the issue there. Maybe I am fortunate to never have waited more than 30 minutes, even as DPS, but even if I had to wait an hour, trials can take that long to get into anyway.

You seem to be factoring in the time it takes to complete the dungeons. Yes, they are long and yes, the cutscenes in them are poorly placed but seeing as SE's goal was to allow new players to both see the cutscenes and do the combat, their solution works.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

We don't know if enough people would find this roulette worthwhile because we don't have data. This is the same line people said last patch and yet they buffed the rewards.

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Yet the queue keeps popping just as quickly as any other roulette. In my experience, it is even quicker since the rewards were buffed.

It would be nice if there were no cutscenes in the middle of these dungeons but there are and I don't expect SE to make them skippable again and I don't expect them to remove the cutscenes any time soon.

If SE finds the queues for Castrum Meridianum and Paetorium are too long still, I would expect them to make adjustments. What I see here are some people who want the roulette rewards without being patient with the new players.

https://i.imgur.com/PO4qqKl.jpg

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

My argument is that other instances take just as long to get into, especially as DPS. Every time I went into a dungeon or a trial for the first time, I did so as BLM and waited for 35+ minutes fairly often. So the issue there is that the DPS queues are too long, not just Castrum Meridianum and Paetorium.

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Yeah, but there's the problem that CM and CP take far longer than your average dungeon does.

You could wait 15-20 minutes, maybe 30 minutes and get into Sastasha or Baby Ifrit, or even something like Bardam's Mettle, and be done in 20 or so minutes.

OR, you wait 30+ minutes for CM or CP and be stuck in there for nearly 30-45 minutes after all the cutscenes.

You're still going to take 20 minutes longer for CM/CP.

DPS Times suck, but when you dump so much time into a run for the cutscenes, it's going to make it even worse. and that's probably partly why the wait times still suck even after increased rewards.

But just to humor, I'll log on and check the wait time a few times and see what it's like on NA for DPS. I'm guessing I'll likely get the "Longer than 30 minutes". Meanwhile I've never seen a Leveling more than 25. Usually predicts 16-18 when I first click the Join button (though it usually inflates to 20-25).

EDIT2: 27m currently. After inflation? Probably 30-45 just to get in the door.
EDIT3: Instant DPS Q for Leveling. WTF? lol. That's probably a fluke. It said 7m average the second before it popped the box. And now I gotta do Sohm Al despite the fact it'll give me almost nothing for XP.
EDIT4: This time it says 16 minutes. heh. We'll see what it actually ends up being.

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

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Again time varies from player to player It can take you 35 minutes to enter does not mean everyone will get the same time. I am pretty sure everyone can agree though 35 minutes + a 35 minute to 1 hour dungeon is a issue.

New players still get left behind yes it is not as obvious now but they still do. They get lost and get teleported 30 seconds after the gate closes that is 15+30 seconds. If the new players pc is slow they are left behind further sometimes. They still miss boss fights.

I fail to see a solution. I am pretty sure everyone sees a Band-Aid.

Our experience means nothing. The only data we have is that they buffed rewards which means they want more players to queue.

Players have beaten this topic to death already.

Edit: Yes the new changes gets a few more players doing this roulette. Does it change much though? The answer is no. Players can get more Exp, more creation, more mendacity doing other content. Poetics can go both ways depending if the party has a new player.

Please continue your debate with other players but stay on topic if you want to reply to me I originally only mentioned 4.3 changes.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Players can get more Exp, more creation, more mendacity doing other content. Poetics can go both ways depending if the party has a new player.

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I think this is the big take-away from the whole conversation. In 20+45 minutes, I could almost do two specific-Q dungeons of my choice and get far, far more XP (and get relevant gear too!).

I could spend 65-80 minutes trying to do a CM/CP run, or I could do, say, two 45 minute dungeons (including the wait time) of relevant level, specific Qing for them and getting guaranteed gear piece (51-59 or 61-69) and <Lv50 can't even Q for CM/CP anyways so no need to compare anything lower.

Buuut for humor's sake, let's see how much XP I get at 64. I'm 2.1M/6.3M which is just less than 30%. I know a specific Q dungeon at relevant level is 25-30% roughly thereabouts if rested. So for this to match up to 2 specific Q dungeons, I'd have to get at least 60% of a levelup, which means I should get a levelup out of this or close to.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

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This is what my first post today was originally about. You either get exp+poetics or creation+mendacity+poetics. We can discuss this.

A Msq can take what 60 to 105 minutes. A typical Ex run takes about 16-30 minutes (Depends on Role).

That is 300-500 poetics+100 creation+ 50 mendacity vs 420-660 creations and 250-390 mendacity.

Msq vs Leveling dungeon

300-500 Poetics and what 50% xp of a level?? vs 60-150% xp since you can get 2-5 dungeons done your level (Depends on Role).

Added onto this you are getting gear your level, alt gear, gc seals, and other drops.

The msq roulette is a joke sadly, and the new changes change very little.

MSQ roulette needs to be on par or greater than leveling roulette

Okay so some real hard data:

Lv64:
Before MSQ Roulette: 7:56AM (the time I got the pop, this does not include the 19 minutes of wait time), 2.1M/6.3M
After MSQ Roulette: 8:45AM, 5.7M/6.3M

So, the MSQ Roulette gives about as much XP as two Specific-Q'd dungeons of highest level (last time I did a Shisui, I got about 30% of a levelup out of it).

HOWEVER

That was WITH a Newbie in the group AND the Roulette Bonus which you can only get once per day. You get 640k out of completing the dungeon and 2.8M out of the Roulette at Lv64.

So yeah, as a daily roulette? It's so-so. You'd probably be better off specific Qing the dungeon of your choice, but only if you have Rested. Otherwise, the daily roulette bonus from MSQ will be better.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

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Sadly I agree it is meh. I don't think the 4.3 change is going to change much of anything.

We will still see some players left behind. Bosses will still melt.

I guess we will see what happens in future patches.