Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Ok I haven't read all the pages here, but did anyone mention that DRG can offer a 10% damage buff to bards?

IMHO that 10% should be taken into account and added to the DRG total dps before comparing it to NIN and MNK.

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It's not a straight 10% buff in damage. There's a little bit in the first post explaining Disembowel.

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The dragoon rotation is built around maintaining your buffs and debuffs. Heavy Thrust (HT) provides a 15% damage buff when used from the flank (unless you have one of those tanks that doesn't like sitting still for some reason), and Disembowel (Dis) provides a -10% piercing resistance debuff when used after an Impulse Drive (ID) from behind. These must be maintained to ensure maximum dps. Note that a buff to damage done (HT) is not the same as a buff to damage received (Dis). Buffs to damage done will modify the base damage of the ability (e.g. 100 damage +15% from HT = 115 damage), while buffs to damage taken will use the final damage amount after if has been modified by other buffs (e.g. 100 damage +15% = 115 + 10% damage taken = 126.5 and not 100 + 15% & 10% = 125).

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

It's not a straight 10% buff in damage. There's a little bit in the first post explaining Disembowel.

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it doesnt affect dots so it's more like 7%

It looks like that the DRG stuff for FCoB is almost filled out here. Very surprised to see that five pieces of loot drop on Turn 10 alone.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticDarkGriever

It looks like that the DRG stuff for FCoB is almost filled out here. Very surprised to see that five pieces of loot drop on Turn 10 alone.

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data is wrong

drg boots do not drop in t10 and I would predict that it drops in t12 but none has dropped yet

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

data is wrong

drg boots do not drop in t10 and I would predict that it drops in t12 but none has dropped yet

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Even if it does, the Ironworks Sollerets Of Maiming and it's augmented version has a higher stat weight for BiS.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticDarkGriever

Even if it does, the Ironworks Sollerets Of Maiming and it's augmented version has a higher stat weight for BiS.

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ya but your first sands will probably go weapon legs chest? so it's late anyways.

Been doing around 375 - 380ish over a 5min parse on my i96 nin, tho I suck with this job.

Having a hard time making a choice as to which job to raid with lol. Probably gonna stay drg tho I put so much effort into it already.

I heard melee accuracy for t12-13 is around 560... seems incredibly high.. anyone know yet?

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I heard melee accuracy for t12-13 is around 560... seems incredibly high.. anyone know yet?

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I was watching a bit of a T13 stream and a monk was switching around gear because he was missing flank hits at 530 accuracy. Didn't stick around to see much else though.

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

I can see them buffing DRGs directly this time, but not nerfing any of the others.

I would assume this would happen before 3.0.

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Hi All,

For those of you not playing XIV in 1.0 era, for a while Dragoons were THE top job back then during Ifrit's release. Just look at Blue Garter's vids, and the countless Ifrit battles with 4 Dragoons. :) {Chaos Thrust} {Can I have it?} :)

Chaos Thrust was so OP for a while (but it was fun)!

I think the important thing is to offer constructive, helpful feedback (maybe someone should start a Thread) with a topic about Dragoon's DPS woes. That's the best way to bring up the issue to Yoshi P and the Dev Team (or get Gamer Escape and others to nicely bring it up to them during another Interview). ;)

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

ya but your first sands will probably go weapon legs chest? so it's late anyways.

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Legs and chest pieces are going to be my first Poetic purchases. If by luck people get both Carbontwine from Turn 12 and Encrypted Tomestone from Turn 11 in a week or two, then the Ironworks Magitek Spear supersedes legs and chest.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I heard melee accuracy for t12-13 is around 560... seems incredibly high.. anyone know yet?

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I'm doing t12 with 52x and t13 with 53x with zero misses.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

I'm doing t12 with 52x and t13 with 53x with zero misses.

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Oh I was just saying. A SMN friend on t11 was talking about accuracy, since SMN usually need melee accuracy, that's what they were talking about.. 560 seemed like an unusually high jump in requirements, but messing around on ariyala's site it seems possible to have around 560 and still have decent stats. (assuming you have every piece of gear at your disposal, of course, lol)

EDIT: and WOW, over 1,000,000 views O.O

Dragoon thread is popular... Haha.

No surprises there. :P

Topic deserves it, holds a lot of good information.

All we need now is BiS for stuff pre-Turn 13 and post-Turn 13.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

data is wrong
drg boots do not drop in t10 and I would predict that it drops in t12 but none has dropped yet

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Do you guys know if the data is wrong for any other items?
Gloves/Waist infos are correct?

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Originally Posted by Andrens

Do you guys know if the data is wrong for any other items?
Gloves/Waist infos are correct?

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Gloves are from T10.

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Originally Posted by Andrens

Do you guys know if the data is wrong for any other items?
Gloves/Waist infos are correct?

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other info should be correct

Im trying to get my ilevel higher. ive started relic quest and im also attempting to get better, everything else as well. Did i dun goof by going for the weathered astrum armor, i spent my first 825 sold. tomes on it and now im hearing i should have gone for the wyrm. But i checked into that and i dont even know how to aquire what is needed for the wyrm but i can get sold. tomes by grinding the current content im capable of accessing. Halp!? lol

Hey guys!

Now that the second week is here! What are your poetic's gear purchase order?

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Originally Posted by sille

Hey guys!

Now that the second week is here! What are your poetic's gear purchase order?

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I'm going straight for the chest. I've got full Wyrm and a non-weathered Liberator so I figured I'd get the chest since it's a nice stat boost and I fancy that accuracy as opposed to the coil drop. :)

I haven't played since April so I don't have a static coil group just yet, will probably rely a fair bit on Ironworks stuff for now, even though some of the FCoB T1 stuff is quite nice.

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Originally Posted by Sirius-Khan

Im trying to get my ilevel higher... Halp!? lol

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Yea.. The maiming chest piece from Syrcus Tower would have been best bet, legs are good too. The Wyrm's gear is old i90 relic gear that you can't buy with tomes anymore, you'll have to trade in the antique armor pieces that drop from new dungeons to the guy at Rowena's building in revenant's toll. It's hard to give an exact guide on gear progression, but your main focus should be increasing Strength, Determination and Critical while maintaining appropriate accuracy requirements.. It will take a while to get everything you want, but focusing on those stats should help you make choices between gears.

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Originally Posted by sille

Hey guys!

Now that the second week is here! What are your poetic's gear purchase order?

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I am looking at the legs, mainly because its a left side upgrade (extra VIT) and it seems to be dropped in later coils, like T12 or T13, so it'll be a valid piece for a long time. The legs also offer both DET and Crit in respectable amounts, so a good piece for people without Accuracy needs.

The body is also decent, as its a direct upgrade over the Austrum chest, but since Dreadwyrm chest drops from T11, if your group is organized and clearing coil quickly, then you might want to skip buying the Ironworks chest.

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Originally Posted by sille

Hey guys!

Now that the second week is here! What are your poetic's gear purchase order?

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Chest > Legs > Boots > Ring

I even might purchase legs first since it gives high CRIT and DET since I don't really need that much ACC as of yet.

Anyway,

This is still something that I'm 50-50 upon for a long time about DRGs and the relation between B4B and LS.
There are people who say "LS should always be paired with B4B" and there are those who say "I use LS as soon as it's off CD whether if B4B is up or not."
Question is, which one will result in a higher DPS? Logically speaking, LS is very good to save for B4B since it will net the most effective usage for LS. Thanks for helping out and cheers!

I think the general view was... BFB is usually up quite close, if not at the same time, as LS.

So you'd use them together by default.

Blood for Blood is 80s, whereas Life Surge is 60s. Considering you are using it around the end of a burst rotation/opening, it's even less than 20s of delay. I usually wait for them to align before popping (as I was told to in this very thread), and I think it's for the best. One more critical hit is hardly a DPS increase, and wasting it over a skill that is not at its maximum potential yet seems far from efficient.

Anyhow, T10 seems to be a training dummy for dragoons, what with aligning mechanics with combos and all - it almost reminds me of T8. However, that Wild Charge...is it normal that even us dragoons get wrecked if we are the first in line? Shouldn't it be a physical attack?

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

However, that Wild Charge...is it normal that even us dragoons get wrecked if we are the first in line? Shouldn't it be a physical attack?

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We are not suppose to stand first in line. Any class other than the OT will die if they stand first in line

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

Blood for Blood is 80s, whereas Life Surge is 60s. Considering you are using it around the end of a burst rotation/opening, it's even less than 20s of delay. I usually wait for them to align before popping (as I was told to in this very thread), and I think it's for the best. One more critical hit is hardly a DPS increase, and wasting it over a skill that is not at its maximum potential yet seems far from efficient.

Anyhow, T10 seems to be a training dummy for dragoons, what with aligning mechanics with combos and all - it almost reminds me of T8. However, that Wild Charge...is it normal that even us dragoons get wrecked if we are the first in line? Shouldn't it be a physical attack?

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Short explanation is that you won't reach FT nicely every 60s on FT, which pushes LS's timer a bit more than 60s on average. Over long run, you gain 1 Extra LS FT every 6 BFBs (equivalent of 8 minutes). But the comparison is 6 LS FT without BFB (0.5 X 6) & 1 LS FT with BFB (0.65 X 1) versus 6 LS FT with BFB (0.65 X 6), 3.65 versus 3.9.

But the difference is so minute to wet your pants over it. Do what is comfortable.

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

Blood for Blood is 80s, whereas Life Surge is 60s. Considering you are using it around the end of a burst rotation/opening, it's even less than 20s of delay. I usually wait for them to align before popping (as I was told to in this very thread), and I think it's for the best. One more critical hit is hardly a DPS increase, and wasting it over a skill that is not at its maximum potential yet seems far from efficient.

Anyhow, T10 seems to be a training dummy for dragoons, what with aligning mechanics with combos and all - it almost reminds me of T8. However, that Wild Charge...is it normal that even us dragoons get wrecked if we are the first in line? Shouldn't it be a physical attack?

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INT based attack. DRG isn't particularly good at soaking, if anything it's one of the weaker ones. And yeah, anyone but OT gets bopped if they're front.

A dragoon has a long enough range to be behind the OT AND still keep attacking the boss, as for your disembowel combo though, you might end up missing one because of it, and just go full thrust.

Oh..I had trouble attacking being second in line. If OT stood right up at the boss he sometimes accidentally clipped that blue aoe and if I stand too close to the OT and our hit boxes overlap I get the full damage..I also read somewhere that attacking while in the wild charge line increases the damage taken by players in the line. Has anyone tested this?

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Originally Posted by Cyfer

We are not suppose to stand first in line. Any class other than the OT will die if they stand first in line

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Of course, I know this - even if sometimes the off-tank sometimes wanders farther back with the group and kills me- it's just that I just found it strange that not even this time our "superior" physical defense helped us at all. I'm kind of mad, to be honest. Our tanks are screwing up some of the mechanics and I had hoped to be able to cover for the OT in some critical moments; but if it's a magic attack as Sleigh says then there is no hope at all :/


Speaking of mechanics, how do you/your groups deal with the lightning circle that spawns after each Wild Charge? I'm usually unable to attack properly because it's not exactly under the boss (not after the charge anyway) and it's quite big, so I can't attack properly. The tank tried to bring the add just slightly more left/right of the circle after each Wild Charge, but the healer complained that this way there would be problems for people targeted for the blue orb staying in the right spot or whatever.

Well I don't think that, especially at the start of Final Coil, you want to lose accuracy from the body piace like the Soldiery one. Ironworks got like 47 (plus Determination) and in long run you're going to want all that accuracy especially if you have a Nexus full DET and Critical.

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Originally Posted by Zankes

What i110 crafted gear would be the best to get if I could choose only one? For Dragoon I mean

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cheapest and easiest to meld would be helm.

best increase would probably be chest to get rid of acc skillspeed or legs after.

also I'm switching to a ninja after I kill t13. gg boys we had a good run.

Already switched to monk myself. No point in dragoon. Good luck all you goons.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

cheapest and easiest to meld would be helm.

best increase would probably be chest to get rid of acc skillspeed or legs after.

also I'm switching to a ninja after I kill t13. gg boys we had a good run.

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Switching to NIN as well although I'd still have to level it up. The horror.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Already switched to monk myself. No point in dragoon. Good luck all you goons.

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Why is there no point in drg?

I mean, I have switched to nin already... but then again I was going to main nin no matter what I was currently Maining once it was released.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Why is there no point in drg?

I mean, I have switched to nin already... but then again I was going to main nin no matter what I was currently Maining once it was released.

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NIN directly outclasses it. NIN has:

Virtually no ramp-up
MNK level DPS
VERY high burst
Virtually no positionals, only Trick Attack (seriously, in T9 and T11+ this is a godsend)
Buffs the party a bit instead of just DRG (and since a large part of BRD DPS is in its opener, it's not even THAT huge a difference to only buff its peak DPS than all the time)
Gets buffed by freakin' Foe's a little
Can enable perma-Storm's Path from WAR if you need it
Can give TP to another player
Doesn't have piss poor magic defense
Has a teleport (so you never have to throttle DPS for movement unlike DRG)
Has a physical dodge once ability
Stacks very well with each other
... etc, etc, etc

Then you've got MNK in all its glory.

Massive DPS
Dragon Kick, which is quite valuable in T10+. There's a lot of INT based mechanics that actually hurt in the new turns
20% Mantra, this is not a joke unlike 5% Mantra
Stacks very well with each other

Where's room for DRG? In my eyes, and the eyes of groups I know, there just isn't one. DRG:

Lower sustained even after BRD buff contribution than NIN/MNK.
More or less lowest survivability of all raid members. Lowest MDEF in a game where raid damage is by and large magical, B4B and Jump capabilities of screwing you, and has to be melee in danger. There's truth to the dead DRG jokes.
Heavy positional requirement. If you cannot get to your position, your rotation is boinked and you are effectively the worst DPS until you can correct it. Sometimes mechanics just don't let that happen. MNK can just take a slight potency loss and go on its way. NIN just says LOL.
Has strong-ish AoE and multi-DoTs and burst. None of these things matter. NIN's as good or better at them anyway.

Right now it's all about MNK MNK, NIN MNK, or NIN NIN. There's no place for DRG ideally, especially in our gear. What was once considered a strong comp, DRG BRD BRD caster - the only formation DRG really truly pulls its weight - is just not competitive with melee melee BRD caster comps unfortunately.

Drg is due for a buff soon then, lol.