Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

It is not that easy.

Doing only as the community wished is bound to end up in a mess. And it is a game. So there is also the money side to take into account.
It is a SE game as you says, not the game of the community. It is for them however, hence why we can suggest things.

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Well I think we should look at runescape, that does almost onyl what the community does and its extrmely popular.
I do not think it would end up in a mess and I also don't agree with saying the game is for them, since it's like suggesting that they are the ones playing the game, which is not like that, they are only providing a service and I feel like they should provide the service their customers want, which would make them a lot more money. Also as for new players wanting something different ,I don't think that the game is going to have that many new players since for the worse or for the better they never ever change the base forumla, so they should focus on keeping the players they already have

SE ultimately entrust the game to Yoshi P’s direction, and I also doubt he’s the actual reason behind it all - it’s just as probable that he added 2 races whilst he could with the intention of using fan backlash to convince the higher ups to release more funding for the addition of the missing gender later on.

I agree that absent a change in formula that they’re unlikely to attract droves of new players, but all that aside at most we can respectfully request that they add mViera and for those for whom their lack is a deal breaker, to make it clear to SE so they can understand the financial impact, whether it causes subs to end, purchases to reduce or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

SE ultimately entrust the game to Yoshi P’s direction, and I also doubt he’s the actual reason behind it all - it’s just as probable that he added 2 races whilst he could with the intention of using fan backlash to convince the higher ups to release more funding for the addition of the missing gender later on.

I agree that absent a change in formula that they’re unlikely to attract droves of new players, but all that aside at most we can respectfully request that they add mViera and for those for whom their lack is a deal breaker, to make it clear to SE so they can understand the financial impact, whether it causes subs to end, purchases to reduce or whatever.

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Yeah I think you're right. Maybe he did this knowing that he could only make 1 more race to use the backlash as an excuse to be able to do 2 full races.
Also I will continue to do so and I apologize if my tone sounded disrespectful (sorry, english is not my native language so I might sound rude using expressions that in my language aren't) since for me male viera's absence is a dealbreaker and won't allow me to enjoy the game nearly as much as otherwise I would have

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Yeah I think you're right. Maybe he did this knowing that he could only make 1 more race to use the backlash as an excuse to be able to do 2 full races.
Also I will continue to do so and I apologize if my tone sounded disrespectful (sorry, english is not my native language so I might sound rude using expressions that in my language aren't) since for me male viera's absence is a dealbreaker and won't allow me to enjoy the game nearly as much as otherwise I would have

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"Dealbreaker"? If Viera wasn't announced at all would you not be playing this game? Can't you just wear a hat or something?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

"Dealbreaker"? If Viera wasn't announced at all would you not be playing this game? Can't you just wear a hat or something?

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Sigh It isnt about no male viera, it is about genderlocked races, and yes, for me it is, and I ask of you to respect that

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Sigh It isnt about no male viera, it is about genderlocked races, and yes, for me it is, and I ask of you to respect that

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Believe it or not the majority of the community understands and respects all players that made those requests to play Male Viera a few years ago or even a more beastly race with both genders so worry not might not everyone be vocal as you and me in these forums / reddit/ insta / game we still here to help even if the introduction of both races isn't relevant to me or any players that think alike.

Well I do know that but there are some extremely vocal ppl who can be very disrespectful, thanks for your support ^^

Maybe this was a calculated move for Yoshi P, maybe he needs to get approved to make new races and was told the next race would be the last one.
So he created a demand by giving half of two races, hoping he could get approved for the other half down the line.

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Originally Posted by Emmanellain

Maybe this was a calculated move for Yoshi P, maybe he needs to get approved to make new races and was told the next race would be the last one.
So he created a demand by giving half of two races, hoping he could get approved for the other half down the line.

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That's also my theory, and if it's like that, then I sure don't mind waiting for male viera if it also means SE is finally giving xiv some of the money they make back ^^

Since we're doing fan art again, I had an idea for a pair of Viera models that would not leave my head until made :D (excuse the bad background)

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...mFPQYdk9_l9LnI

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Well I think we should look at runescape, that does almost onyl what the community does and its extrmely popular.

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A large part of FF14 community believes that Ifrit Extreme or Titan Extreme are difficult trials.

The LAST thing we need is to listen to the FF14 community.

just. No.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

That's also my theory, and if it's like that, then I sure don't mind waiting for male viera if it also means SE is finally giving xiv some of the money they make back ^^

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Do you guys not remember him being suprised by the backlash or do you think he was just pretending. It ok to want something but many of you are doing some crazy mental gymnastics to try to come up with reasons for it not happening.

BTW we already know why we got gender locked races, and it simpler than many people seem to think. They have the resources to add one male and one female. They think this is going to be the last races so they wanted to give the two races people have been asking for. They genderlocked so that we could get two races rather than just the one. This is some conspiracy by Yoshi to get more man power, this isn't SE being sexiest it is SE doing what they can to try to appease 2 groups that want very different things

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Originally Posted by spf1200

Do you guys not remember him being suprised by the backlash or do you think he was just pretending. It ok to want something but many of you are doing some crazy mental gymnastics to try to come up with reasons for it not happening.

BTW we already know why we got gender locked races, and it simpler than many people seem to think. They have the resources to add one male and one female. They think this is going to be the last races so they wanted to give the two races people have been asking for. They genderlocked so that we could get two races rather than just the one. This is some conspiracy by Yoshi to get more man power, this isn't SE being sexiest it is SE doing what they can to try to appease 2 groups that want very different things

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Alright that's your opinion and we all respect, in fact I do get your point, but if they were surprised by the backlash it's even better since it means that they will seriously consider adding them. Also I think that they should have just settled for the race they though was better (they say it was hrotgar) and make it with both genders, since it would have not caused nearly as much backlash and bad press, and bad press is one of the worst things your game can have, which this game has a lot of after genderlocked races, so it only makes more sense to add both genderes down the line and get tremendously good press

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Alright that's your opinion and we all respect, in fact I do get your point, but if they were surprised by the backlash it's even better since it means that they will seriously consider adding them. Also I think that they should have just settled for the race they though was better (they say it was hrotgar) and make it with both genders, since it would have not caused nearly as much backlash and bad press, and bad press is one of the worst things your game can have, which this game has a lot of after genderlocked races, so it only makes more sense to add both genderes down the line and get tremendously good press

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No they made the best choice... the two gender/races that would be the most popular and used the most in my opinion. It wasn't an easy decision for them but they decided to go with their best intent and they may add the others we'll have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No they made the best choice... the two gender/races that would be the most popular and used the most in my opinion. It wasn't an easy decision for them but they decided to go with their best intent and they may add the others we'll have to wait and see.

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https://i.imgur.com/4hwSGW9.png

If we go by xivcensus's data on the two races' most similar representations today, male viera would be played by more than female and male hrothgar combined.

If they wanted to add more racial diversity then this isn't just about volume of players using the thing, but an artistic decision.
And "reinforcing old gender aesthetic stereotypes and restricting player expression is uncreative, boring, and regressive" is a valid criticism to apply to this artistic decision.

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Originally Posted by Roda

If we go by xivcensus's data on the two races' most similar representations today, male viera would be played by more than female and male hrothgar combined.

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Sorry but I trust their decision making and I'm sure you'll see more Hrothgar than you an shake a stick at come xpac. We'll just have to wait and see now won't we. After all is said and done we've got what we got and you'll just have to keep hoping they add the others. I'm personally very happy with their choice and I also hope we get to see the other genders as well one day.

I also trust that if they make them they'll come up with some interesting models which the majority of the player base will like as well.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No they made the best choice... the two gender/races that would be the most popular and used the most in my opinion. It wasn't an easy decision for them but they decided to go with their best intent and they may add the others we'll have to wait and see.

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I don't agree with you, considering that male viera would have obviously been waay more popular than male hrotgar

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Sorry but I trust their decision making and I'm sure you'll see more Hrothgar than you an shake a stick at come xpac.

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Of course there will be a lot of Hrothgar when the expansion comes out, they will be new. The real test will be how many there are after a few months. I do think they'll be more popular then Roes, but I will continue to show support for not gender locking.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Sorry but I trust their decision making and I'm sure you'll see more Hrothgar than you an shake a stick at come xpac. We'll just have to wait and see now won't we. After all is said and done we've got what we got and you'll just have to keep hoping they add the others. I'm personally very happy with their choice and I also hope we get to see the other genders as well one day.

I also trust that if they make them they'll come up with some interesting models which the majority of the player base will like as well.

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I dont really agree with you personally in the first point, but I do on the second.
Also most hrotgar will probs fantasia back in 1-2 weeks unless they are furries or reeeally enjor bestial race, which is certainly less than the amount of players that enjoy beautifull male race (take a look at roes and miqote) but we'll see I guess ^^
I myself wouldn't ever change to hrotgar but I would change to male viera in a heartbeat, if we get a free fantasia I'll most likely go for miqote male or au ra male

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Originally Posted by zeylos

I don't agree with you, considering that male viera would have obviously been waay more popular than male hrotgar

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Obviously you don't but then you don't work for SE and the Dev team. Believe me they're not stupid and didn't make these selections lightly.

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Originally Posted by LZero

Of course there will be a lot of Hrothgar when the expansion comes out, they will be new. The real test will be how many there are after a few months. I do think they'll be more popular then Roes, but I will continue to show support for not gender locking.

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We'll have to wait and see won't we. Now curious how would you test how many male Viera there would be given they're not coming? I'm also interested in getting a hold of your crystal ball since you seem to be able to foretell the future and know that people will fantasia back away from Hrothgar..

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Originally Posted by zeylos

I myself wouldn't ever change to hrotgar but I would change to male viera in a heartbeat

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I would never have guessed that thank you for letting us all know.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Obviously you don't but then you don't work for SE and the Dev team. Believe me they're not stupid and didn't make these selections lightly.

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I didn't say they were stupid or that they made this decision lightly, I'm just saying I feel its the wrong choice.
A full hrotgar race would have sold a bit of fantasias.
A full viera race would have sold tons upon tons of fantasias
What we got now will sell decent amount for viera but not much for hrotgar
Also press is one of the most important things for a game, and genderlock gives u extremely bad press which means lots of money lost (look at games news reporters and u'll see what I mean)
Male viera will probs make at least 10x times more money than hrotgar
if they made hrotgar males look like ronso they would have also sold a lot more so im not sure why they went the reskinned roegadyn way but not my decision

EDIT: I remind you that this is (like I stated at the beggining of the post) what I feel like, and what lots of players (not a random player lol) feel like.
Also I see that some ppl have literally NO idea on what marketing even means and how important press truly is

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Originally Posted by Roda

https://i.imgur.com/4hwSGW9.png

If we go by xivcensus's data on the two races' most similar representations today, male viera would be played by more than female and male hrothgar combined.

If they wanted to add more racial diversity then this isn't just about volume of players using the thing, but an artistic decision.
And "reinforcing old gender aesthetic stereotypes and restricting player expression is uncreative, boring, and regressive" is a valid criticism to apply to this artistic decision.

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You're strawmanning here. It's clear the presupposition that the post you're quoting was based on was that SE knew they were adding Viera and Hrothgar based on the overwhelming demand for a bestial race and Viera.

From that point your graph and that logic literally supports the addition of female Viera and male Hrothgar since (of each race) those are the more popular genders.

As far as "regressive" ideas about gender aesthetic stereotypes we could go in circles all day and never agree but (again) your graph shows that more people play female Miqo and male Roe sooooo... if the statistics show that the playerbase seems to follow a certain set of ideas about gendered stereotypes it seems like a poor business decision for SE to break from that in a situation like this one where they don't have unlimited financial resources to create everything they might want to.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

I didn't say they were stupid or that they made this decision lightly, I'm just saying I feel its the wrong choice.
A full hrotgar race would have sold a bit of fantasias.
A full viera race would have sold tons upon tons of fantasias
What we got now will sell decent amount for viera but not much for hrotgar
Also press is one of the most important things for a game, and genderlock gives u extremely bad press which means lots of money lost (look at games news reporters and u'll see what I mean)
Male viera will probs make at least 10x times more money than hrotgar
If they made hrotgar males look like ronso they would have also sold a lot more so im not sure why they went the reskinned roegadyn way but not my decision

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This is all conjecture and your opinion. I'm certain SE knows what will sell better than a random player, if there's anything they truly care about in this game it's making money.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Sorry but I trust their decision making and I'm sure you'll see more Hrothgar than you an shake a stick at come xpac. We'll just have to wait and see now won't we. After all is said and done we've got what we got and you'll just have to keep hoping they add the others. I'm personally very happy with their choice and I also hope we get to see the other genders as well one day.

I also trust that if they make them they'll come up with some interesting models which the majority of the player base will like as well.

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Let's check back 6 months into 5.0, and see how that pans out. I really would love to see how many of all these supposed WoW refugees are going to end up playing Hrothgar, or whether the likelier scenario is they cannibalise Roe numbers a bit.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

You're strawmanning here. It's clear the presupposition that the post you're quoting was based on was that SE knew they were adding Viera and Hrothgar based on the overwhelming demand for a bestial race and Viera.

From that point your graph and that logic literally supports the addition of female Viera and male Hrothgar since (of each race) those are the more popular genders.

As far as "regressive" ideas about gender aesthetic stereotypes we could go in circles all day and never agree but (again) your graph shows that more people play female Miqo and male Roe sooooo... if the statistics show that the playerbase seems to follow a certain set of ideas about gendered stereotypes it seems like a poor business decision for SE to break from that in a situation like this one where they don't have unlimited financial resources to create everything they might want to.



This is all conjecture and your opinion. I'm certain SE knows what will sell better than a random player, if there's anything they truly care about in this game it's making money.

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Here's the thing. Come at me with "they want to appease the most people" and I'll point to the underrepresentation of beast players in almost every game that offers them. Come at me with "they wanted to add something new" and I'll point to the tired trope they are reinforcing. Saying "it's ok to sacrifice diversity and player expression because more people would do this" right before ALSO saying "it's fine that they don't add a popularly requested and represented archetype because they wanted to add different options!" seems hella contratdictory to me.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

You're strawmanning here. It's clear the presupposition that the post you're quoting was based on was that SE knew they were adding Viera and Hrothgar based on the overwhelming demand for a bestial race and Viera.

From that point your graph and that logic literally supports the addition of female Viera and male Hrothgar since (of each race) those are the more popular genders.

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Point to this "overwhelming demand", please. That graph does not really support the point you think it's making, because male miqo'te vastly outnumber Roegadyn males. Virtually every other male option does - even male Elezen, with their awkward proportions and animations outnumber them. So if they were really aiming to maximise how many people will play the male gender combo, a Roe-based racial pick is really not the optimal choice... unless, of course, the intention is to simply add the gender that would be most popular for the race based on the most proximate body type first, and then later add the missing gender option.

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This is all conjecture and your opinion. I'm certain SE knows what will sell better than a random player, if there's anything they truly care about in this game it's making money.

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Which is conjecture and opinion in equal measure.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Point to this "overwhelming demand", please. That graph does not really support the point you think it's making, because male miqo'te vastly outnumber Roegadyn males. Virtually every other male option does - even male Elezen, with their awkward proportions and animations outnumber them. So if they were really aiming to maximise how many people will play the male gender combo, a Roe-based racial pick is really not the optimal choice... unless, of course, the intention is to simply add the gender that would be most popular for the race based on the most proximate body type first, and then later add the missing gender option.



Which is conjecture and opinion in equal measure.

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Do you read? I mean you're able to quote part of my post then respond with something that's refuted by another part of that same post. That's some kind of skill there.

I said (based on comment from Yoshida himself) that in order to even understand this you first need to understand that they had already decided on doing two races, one to satisfy the Viera demand and one for the beast race demand. You people seem like you can't grasp that or something, I don't get it.

From there the more profitable Viera option is clearly... Viera. As we've known them this entire time, as women. No question there, especially in a game that already has such a tilt towards people playing female characters.

Now they could have ignored the community asking for a beast race and done male Viera. They could have made male Viera super bestial (slap bunny ears on a Hrothgar, it's literally cannonically possible with the amount of "I have no idea" that we have about male Viera - there could even be a thing about their connection to protecting The Wood causing them to develop in such an aggressive and physically imposing manner like some Werewolf mythos) or they could have done what they did and made the male of another race.

I'm glad for the diversity, personally. And also glad that they didn't add male Viera as teen-looking character models. We already have lalas, no need to throw fuel on the pedo fire.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ayable-race%21

I'm posting from my phone but if you want a glimpse at the demand for playable beast races there you go.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Here's the thing. Come at me with "they want to appease the most people" and I'll point to the underrepresentation of beast players in almost every game that offers them. Come at me with "they wanted to add something new" and I'll point to the tired trope they are reinforcing. Saying "it's ok to sacrifice diversity and player expression because more people would do this" right before ALSO saying "it's fine that they don't add a popularly requested and represented archetype because they wanted to add different options!" seems hella contratdictory to me.

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It's almost like a lot of the playerbase of videogames are men and the vast majority of men enjoy looking at attractive women.

Such shock!

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Let's check back 6 months into 5.0, and see how that pans out. I really would love to see how many of all these supposed WoW refugees are going to end up playing Hrothgar, or whether the likelier scenario is they cannibalise Roe numbers a bit.

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Yes we can check back in 6 months and a year from xpac release and I'm sure the numbers will be available and then we can make judgements about SE's decision making process. And I might add I'm sure it's not just wow refugees. I'm totally interested in making a male Hrothgar and I've never really played a male character before. Will I stick with it well that depends, I think their reveal trailer was awesome. Now if there were females available too I would have to see how they looked and what their animations were like and then decide.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

From there

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Indeed, from there, i.e. having made the decision (note that this was not how the post Roda was responding to had framed it.) Certainly not the most profitable decision in the abstract, but perhaps so given the decision made, indicating they simply wanted to add another race whilst they still could.

As for that thread, I'm aware of demand for beast races - but the only way to get to "overwhelming demand" is to throw that "and Viera" in there.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

It's almost like a lot of the playerbase of videogames are men and the vast majority of men enjoy looking at attractive women.

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By that same logic it would've made a lot more sense to introduce male Viera over male Hroths for the ladies (and us men) who enjoy looking at attractive men, too.
We already know why they added male Hroths, and we already know why they added female Viera. Those reasons are in direct contradiction to each other as Viera was the race more asked for and the males likely would've been played more than male Hroths, while Viera bring little to the table aesthetically compared to Hroths, all the more so for females because guys got male Au Ra while the ladies got a Miqo'te clone.
Defending one decision inevitably undermines the 'justification' used for the other genderlock's existence.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

but the only way to get to "overwhelming demand" is to throw that "and Viera" in there.

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Didn't Yoshida himself admit that one of the reasons why "beastly races" got such high demand in the older poll because they lumped Viera in there lmao

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Didn't Yoshida himself admit that one of the reasons why "beastly races" got such high demand in the older poll because they lumped Viera in there lmao

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No they were separate options
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46936

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yes we can check back in 6 months and a year from xpac release and I'm sure the numbers will be available and then we can make judgements about SE's decision making process. And I might add I'm sure it's not just wow refugees. I'm totally interested in making a male Hrothgar and I've never really played a male character before. Will I stick with it well that depends, I think their reveal trailer was awesome. Now if there were females available too I would have to see how they looked and what their animations were like and then decide.

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Wow im sure we hadn't got any idea that you would do anything it takes to defend what SE did.Thanks for telling us

https://i.imgflip.com/2zfyx4.jpg

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Didn't Yoshida himself admit that one of the reasons why "beastly races" got such high demand in the older poll because they lumped Viera in there lmao

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I'm not sure how valuable it is some 7 years later, but even at the time, the pure mammalian beastmen option was the lowest overall. They don't like the concept of half-breeds, for a variety of reasons, and it's evident that more customisation options were a big thing even then, and remain so, so I guess that will become their next focus.

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Originally Posted by Roda

No they were separate options
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46936

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Ah I see, got my options mixed up

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Wow im sure we hadn't got any idea that you would do anything it takes to defend what SE did.Thanks for telling us

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You need to step away from this thread. Posting in here more than a couple dozen times a day doesn't make your opinion anymore valuable than anyone elses. I'm sorry you have a really hard time dealing with other people who don't worship the ground you walk on and follow lock step with everything you have to say.

You need to stop trying to silence different opinions in this thread. It DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU or the half dozen or so regulars who do basically the same thing, and yes I do plan on making 2 female Viera alts (I will Fantasia two i currently have at level 70) and make one Horotgar male who will be a low level character to start. I'll certainly give it a try and see how I like it. And stop with the DEFENDING SE line because it simply goes to show how intolerant a person you are.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

By that same logic it would've made a lot more sense to introduce male Viera over male Hroths for the ladies (and us men) who enjoy looking at attractive men, too.
We already know why they added male Hroths, and we already know why they added female Viera. Those reasons are in direct contradiction to each other as Viera was the race more asked for and the males likely would've been played more than male Hroths, while Viera bring little to the table aesthetically compared to Hroths, all the more so for females because guys got male Au Ra while the ladies got a Miqo'te clone.
Defending one decision inevitably undermines the 'justification' used for the other genderlock's existence.



Didn't Yoshida himself admit that one of the reasons why "beastly races" got such high demand in the older poll because they lumped Viera in there lmao

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The difference is less players are female and less players play male characters. This is why we see so much favor towards glamour with female characters, something I would imagine the group of people complaining about a lack of male Viera would be aware of.

You're equating the results of devs pandering to men with the results of pandering to women. These aren't the same.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You need to step away from this thread. Posting in here more than a couple dozen times a day doesn't make your opinion anymore valuable than anyone elses. I'm sorry you have a really hard time dealing with other people who don't worship the ground you walk on and follow lock step with everything you have to say.

You need to stop trying to silence different opinions in this thread. It DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU or the half dozen or so regulars who do basically the same thing, and yes I do plan on making 2 female Viera alts (I will Fantasia two i currently have at level 70) and make one Horotgar male who will be a low level character to start. I'll certainly give it a try and see how I like it. And stop with the DEFENDING SE line because it simply goes to show how intolerant a person you are.

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You come into a thread with a rude passive aggressive attitude and then complain because ppl tell u their opinion... Interesting

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Originally Posted by zeylos

You come into a thread with a rude passive aggressive attitude and then complain because ppl tell u their opinion... Interesting

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I wasn't rude in the least. You're the one being rude and not willing to listen to others. Seriously get over it you do not own this thread or the opinions of others expressed here.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

snip

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Yes, but then when you try to say that YOUR opinion is better than anyone else's, and don't put up anything factual save for your own opinions and a link to a thread that, I do have to agree as to why the lupin race was added and fleshed out... only for them to choose hrothgar, to me, is a little baffling. But that's beside the point. You've gone from debating and 'attacking' people's standpoints, to the people themselves, if anyone needs to 'step away'...it would probably be you. Since it seems you've lost your objectivity, if you had any to begin with.

They're not trying to silence anyone, they are trying to point out any/all fallacy's with yours and/or Veis_Alveare's opinions. Because those are what they are, opinions. Neither of you seem to have any more insight upon this topic as we do, nothing official from SE/Yoshi anyways and almost everything else has been semi-well put together conjecture. No one is trying to attack anyone else, normally from what I've seen, it's when people, usually those trying to shoot down the male veira idea for a variety of reasons, usually falling under self-important, selfish and sadly even sometimes trollish reasons. So people here can be a bit defensive, which I cannot blame them for, since it seems that in a good number of places people who still want to talk about this topic are either ostracized or mocked.

Speaking of intolerance, how does us wanting male veira 'affect' you in ANY way, shape or form? It doesn't. If they add them in, cool, you can still make your two females and can go well out of your way to avoid any and all male veira. The points they're trying to make, sadly over and over again, because folks just don't get it. Is that the reasons that SE and sadly their rabid white-knights come up with as to why there is no male veira, is flimsy at best and insulting at worst. Why is it folks crap on those wanting male veira, when in fact, it doesn't affect them at ALL? Opinion, biased behavior, insecurities, etc, take your pick really.

The only other thing I will point out, is every country is different when it comes to it's racial leanings. For example, in Japan, the most popular races I believe, are the Lalafells and the "catbois/gurls". So sitting here, pretending, and yes that is what you and everyone else comes in here who 9/10 times shouts at us, that your opinion is some how more factually based than everyone else's, is just straight up asinine. Agree to disagree and stop being a drama queen. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Madiera

Yes, but then when you try to say that YOUR opinion is better than anyone else'su.

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I didn't say it was better it's an opinion and dog piling on people with different opinions is pretty common place in this thread.