Gender locked race?

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Originally Posted by Kazran

Limiting to the whole "Big Brute 'ugly' Muscle " Male and the "Pretty, cute, object" Female with with gender locked races just feels so old fashioned and gross!

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Originally Posted by Thefates

Seriously, just give us some masculine females and some feminine males. This is literally the perfect opportunity to do so now.

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You can already design rough looking women in-game if you wish as well as more delicate looking men. It's not as if either aesthetic is neglected when it comes to the character customisation system.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

With that logic, Hyurans are actually Humes from Vanadiel, because they're totally being called that in The First!

Sarcasm aside, they were just showing that you can recreate characters from other FF games, doesn't make them officially Ronso (because they're Hrothgar). Besides, Fran was already in the game, unless you completely missed her in the Ivalice raids (and technically, she isn't even the same Fran as the FFXII one, despite having the exact same looks).

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Therefore the Viera lore shouldn't have bound the Viera to be genderlocked either.

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Originally Posted by Keeric

Two factions have been screaming for races: Viera and people who wanted bestial. I think they chose to go with this because they had time to program one or one gender of each, so they took the middle ground and pissed of gender divides rather than style divides.

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Do you really think they started designing Viera in November? This expansion has been in the work for years... Viera is one of the main features, in fact. They intended for the gender-lock on day one. It's possible that the Hrothgar were created as an afterthought to appease the masses (or so they thought). This would also explain why there aren't any in the trailer. This was a poorly made, and executed, decision.

I was already pretty much certain that this would be the outcome all the way back during Paris fanfest when they were so clearly avoidant about mentioning male Viera, but I wanted to wait until it was officially confirmed to make my statement about it.

Obviously, this is a massive and frustrating disappointment. I had no personal stake in male Viera, I wasn't interested in playing one. However, I'm not so blind that I cannot recognize when something is an obviously good decision. When you run a business, selling a product, the feedback you receive from customers about that product is a valuable asset. When customers overwhelmingly give you direct, earnest, specific and voluminous feedback about specific changes they want to see, you should be thanking the gods for your luck. An obvious choice, a clear path on which to direct your work, that you know for certain will please your customers, drawing praise and attention to your product and business.

Square Enix did not do that.

In a game that secured its entire existence and success on the concept of correcting past mistakes and humbly listening to your customers, it feels like nothing less than a total betrayal for them to fly in the face of such overwhelming feedback. The customers and community, in this instance, were patently ignored. There's no other way to slice it, the fans were totally ignored. Square knew what the fans wanted, but ignored them. For what reason? Nothing but the whims and caprice of the producer and director? This decision appeases (effectively) no one, and does nothing but attract criticism and bad press to your game. Yet they went ahead and did it anyway.

It is so frustrating that my only route for feedback is this insignificant, impotent little post that will simply be buried and ignored under thousands of posts just like it. What I really want to do is grab Yoshida by the shoulders and shake vigorously while yelling "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?" Can you actually give satisfying reasoning for your business decision, or was it purely a flight of fancy? To not only deny the choice that your users are asking for, but to go with something that has never been introduced, mentioned, or even hinted at, in a style (big beefy dudes) that both historical polls and in-game data suggest is not at all popular or desired?

Based on previous interviews on the topic of Viera, this whole thing reeks of something Yoshida did on his own, against the advice of his co-workers, which only makes it all the more baffling. After building the game this far, carried by the good will of the users and an honest intention to correct the mistakes of the past and deliver something that people want to play, it's nothing short of shocking and depressing to see this team repeat the mistakes of 1.0.

If Yoshida and the dev team have any respect left for their players, they must offer the following: A formal apology for introducing genderlocked races against the will and wishes of the community, and a promise that the missing genders will be introduced and implemented into the game before 6.0. Obviously they will not do this, so I can only hope instead that a large number of people cancel their subscriptions and their Shadowbringers preorders. I hope that Yoshida is made to see the rewards that pride and arrogance earn him.

To addend: This is bigger than just some genderlocked races. It's a decision that shows without a doubt that this dev team does not care, and will not listen. It shatters the good will and confidence of the users they had built up over so many years. Even if it's not something that bothers you personally, your faith in the game should be shaken. Yesterday it was limited jobs, today it's genderlocked races. Tomorrow, who knows? Certainly nothing good.

I'm disapointed, this is a really backwards way of thinking and I thought the dev team grew from that way of thinking. I'll probably play through the MSQ of shadowbringers but my sub time will probably be cut down majorly compared to SB. Since they're going about it this way.

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Originally Posted by Keeric

Two factions have been screaming for races: Viera and people who wanted bestial. I think they chose to go with this because they had time to program one or one gender of each, so they took the middle ground and pissed of gender divides rather than style divides.

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Two races, both having two clans. And some people demanding to have both genders available as well.

As someone who's been working with some 3D modeling, I've funny feeling that some people don't understand the amount of work needed. It'd be all nice and good if you could just launch Blender, snap fingers and have perfect model, skeleton and it's bones adjusted - along with every single emote and piece of equipment done.

It's just a bit odd watching stats; for example Roegadyn female sitting at all-time low - and then people would want another burly female race. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

So, out of curiosity...how many of those upset over this intend to take their leave of the game and at what point do they intend to do so?

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Probably after 4.56. Honestly, my static is getting bored, our main healer has considered quitting for months and it would give me SO much time to work on my Master's (Plus, wouldn't have to worry about taking my PS4 overseas). I could even go to Fan Fest in cosplay with Bunny ears! Hope I could run in to Yoshi-P and say "Oh, it's not the Bunny set, I'm just cosplaying a male Viera"

Count me in as another person dissapointed... gender locking in 2019 is just gross

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Feminism can be a good thing when it's needed. Radical feminism is not. That doesn't seem to be happening in Japan though, so I'm all for it.

Stop implying that I don't care about women.

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I'll stop implying it when you actually respect women's thoughts and not just when they're convenient to you. Anyway, you also missed the part where I'm implying you're racist by projecting your own, western-influenced opinions on feminism onto all of Japan.

And just to keep this on topic: even Japanese players are cranky about this so stop pretending you're dying on this hill for them.

I'm not going to quit playing over it, I love this game. I'm just kind of bummed and hope they add the other genders in the future. If not, I'll keep playing as a catboy and keep on enjoying all the things that brought me to the game in the first place. It's like pumpkin pie with no whipped cream. It's not as good as it could be but I'm still going to enjoy eating it.

Even if they reverse it and they end up giving male Viera because of the overwhelming backlash from the community after us being lied to, misled and things being misrepresented in order to mask their sexism and blatant disregard for the community, I don't think I could justify supporting them so it's very possible I won't be coming back to FFXIV.

I understand that is hard to develop a race, but I think more of the community would have been happy than one full race with two genders instead of the two races one gender we're getting right now.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

You can already design rough looking women in-game if you wish as well as more delicate looking men. It's not as if either aesthetic is neglected when it comes to the character customisation system.

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There is nothing wrong with more options. A female Roe and a female Hrothgar would be different hugely in aesthetic as would male Viera be different to Lalafell and Miqote. Especially if based from the concept art that exists of Male Viera. Yes the races are 'rough' or 'cute' or 'sexy' but in different ways and in different tastes. I'm not saying we should cater to very taste but these being their 'final' races it feels silly to limit them so.

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Originally Posted by NahuNa

I'll stop implying it when you actually respect women's thoughts and not just when they're convenient to you. Anyway, you also missed the part where I'm implying you're racist by projecting your own, western-influenced opinions on feminism onto all of Japan.

And just to keep this on topic: even Japanese players are cranky about this so stop pretending you're dying on this hill for them.

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They have every right to be cranky. Gender-locked races are lame and I'm against it personally.

Again you're assuming I don't respect women, lol. If a man, or a woman, has a bad opinion, I won't agree with it. Pretty equal right?
Also it isn't racism XD It's nationalism. And yeah, Japan is in a very good place right now compared to the US and Europe.

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Originally Posted by daxthehusky

Even if they reverse it and they end up giving male Viera because of the overwhelming backlash from the community after us being lied to, misled and things being misrepresented in order to mask their sexism and blatant disregard for the community, I don't think I could justify supporting them so it's very possible I won't be coming back to FFXIV.

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I read this, and I am constantly amazed at how forums are capable of convincing themselves of things that haven't been announced. This is a post of someone experiencing straight-up betrayal; a betrayal of a sandcastle they built up inside their own head.

I'm also not going to quit over this, I have my Hyur. I have my Miqo'te - that isn't on steroids. Still, I would have liked male Viera. I would have liked female Hrothgar. I despise genderlocks, I hate them, even more, when there's a history of them already established and there seem to be no lessons learned from the past.

What it smells like is this is just going to be a repeat. They're running out of time to complete the game - they announced the lock. They plan to revoke the lock in the future with customer complaints; or not if the complaints aren't enough. That's the only silver lining I see.

I can't even be damned happy about Dancer even if it's my preferred type of dps - they're probably even more so upset about it than I am. Heck, I'm not even upset, just so baffled by the logic.

I cancelled my preoder and my subscription. I thought SE wouldn't make this gender-lock mistake after they fixed it post-1.0. If the issue is that male developers won't work on male viera (the reason why it took so long to get male bunny outfits in Golden Saucer) then fix the antiquated hiring practices at SE and hire more female developers. If SE can't be bothered to hire a diverse developer team and cater to the 40% female player-base who just want cute bunny boys then I regret the hundreds of dollars I already spent at SE's store and will happily move on to another franchise that does care about its fans. My issue with the lack of male viera isn't that I particularly wanted to play as one (although I had 5 fantasia saved up for playing around with male viera), but that the choice to not give the player-base male viera is just the developers once again ignoring what the female player-base wants and trying to cater to the straight, male player-base. Since companies only care about money, this is my only way to tell SE that their behavior is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by seros

I understand that is hard to develop a race, but I think more of the community would have been happy than one full race with two genders instead of the two races one gender we're getting right now.

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With this community? There would be a riot either way. Yoship went with what he wanted to, and this reaction pretty much makes sure "final race" is more final than what the forum might want to believe.

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Originally Posted by Whimsical_Moose

I cancelled my preoder and my subscription. I thought SE wouldn't make this gender-lock mistake after they fixed it post-1.0. If the issue is that male developers won't work on male viera (the reason why it took so long to get male bunny outfits in Golden Saucer) then fix the antiquated hiring practices at SE and hire more female developers. If SE can't be bothered to hire a diverse developer team and cater to the 40% female player-base who just want cute bunny boys then I regret the hundreds of dollars I already spent at SE's store and will happily move on to another franchise that does care about its fans. My issue with the lack of male viera isn't that I particularly wanted to play as one (although I had 5 fantasia saved up for playing around with male viera), but that the choice to not give the player-base male viera is just the developers once again ignoring what the female player-base wants and trying to cater to the straight, male player-base. Since companies only care about money, this is my only way to tell SE that their behavior is unacceptable.

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One post, account created in 2019. Please don't lecture us on 1.0.

This (and no new healer announced *yet*) was extremely disappointing. I don't even mind Hrothgar, in fact my position during all this waiting was supporting both options to be added. I'm glad for who wanted something different and got it like they wanted. I'll probably even play around with the character creator but for sure won't change. But WHY the genderlock. Why we couldn't have this AND male Viera (and, well, female Hrothgar too). Why is male Viera something so uncomfortabloe that can't possibly be added into the game. Just, WHY.

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Originally Posted by Whimsical_Moose

I cancelled my preoder and my subscription. I thought SE wouldn't make this gender-lock mistake after they fixed it post-1.0. If the issue is that male developers won't work on male viera (the reason why it took so long to get male bunny outfits in Golden Saucer) then fix the antiquated hiring practices at SE and hire more female developers. If SE can't be bothered to hire a diverse developer team and cater to the 40% female player-base who just want cute bunny boys then I regret the hundreds of dollars I already spent at SE's store and will happily move on to another franchise that does care about its fans. My issue with the lack of male viera isn't that I particularly wanted to play as one (although I had 5 fantasia saved up for playing around with male viera), but that the choice to not give the player-base male viera is just the developers once again ignoring what the female player-base wants and trying to cater to the straight, male player-base. Since companies only care about money, this is my only way to tell SE that their behavior is unacceptable.

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Can I ask how you cancelled it? I ordered on the SE NA shop and it's not letting me cancel my pre-order.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

With this community? There would be a riot either way. Yoship went with what he wanted to, and this reaction pretty much makes sure "final race" is more final than what the forum might want to believe.

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Keep in mind. You can be happy or sad about getting a race you want. No one is happy about a genderlock though, the default reaction is indifference and it only goes downhill from there. Yes, there would be people disappointed by not getting Hrothgar or Viera, but there would be far less people so absolutely outraged.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

Can I ask how you cancelled it? I ordered on the SE NA shop and it's not letting me cancel my pre-order.

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Did you redeem your code for the aetheryte earring? I may be wrong, but I think that forfeits right to refund, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I read this, and I am constantly amazed at how forums are capable of convincing themselves of things that haven't been announced. This is a post of someone experiencing straight-up betrayal; a betrayal of a sandcastle they built up inside their own head.

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Because the director of the game couldn't be upfront and honest about this gender lock to the community from the start instead of hiding it like a dirty secret for months until he could no longer?

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Originally Posted by van_arn

With this community? There would be a riot either way. Yoship went with what he wanted to, and this reaction pretty much makes sure "final race" is more final than what the forum might want to believe.

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Let's not be daft here, you know very well that the outrage would be less if we got two genders of a race we knew we were getting verses not getting a race we never knew about.

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Originally Posted by KittenMittens

Because the director of the game couldn't be upfront and honest about this gender lock to the community from the start instead of hiding it like a dirty secret for months until he could no longer?

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And if he had been upfront about it, he could either say males weren't getting anything OR he'd have to blow the lid on content he was saving for this fanfest.

A straight up no comment is the best solution in this case, actually. People reading too far into "no comment" is the problem here.

Adding my voice to the group of players upset by the decision to gender lock the races. It didn't work before and it's not going to work now. Please reconsider and reverse this decision, Square.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I read this, and I am constantly amazed at how forums are capable of convincing themselves of things that haven't been announced. This is a post of someone experiencing straight-up betrayal; a betrayal of a sandcastle they built up inside their own head.

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Honey, the second post to the OP are concept pictures of a Female Viera AND Male Viera. And they've only implemented one gender. They may have not outright said there will be Male Viera. But instead they released a female trailer, and said NOTHING about Male Viera. We were left in the dark, really. Perhaps, they're still working on the design?, or perhaps they need more time? They wouldn't make the same 1.0 mistake all over again, would they? It's like we're fighting for gender rights and civil rights in game and irl. It just gets old if anything. But again, those people who say they're content, will stop posting. For those who want to fight for what they believe in, keep posting. Every day. And when they close the forum, start a new one.

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Originally Posted by seros

Let's not be daft here, you know very well that the outrage would be less if we got two genders of a race we knew we were getting verses not getting a race we never knew about.

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Exactly if this had just been male and female Viera most of the attention would be on the fact that "hey Final Fantasy finally showed Male Viera! Isn't that cool?" and would have probably have FF fans outside the XIV fan base talking too!

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

Did you redeem your code for the aetheryte earring? I may be wrong, but I think that forfeits right to refund, unfortunately.

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Ugh, yes. GDI. I wasn't exactly expecting to be insanely disappointed. But they managed it.

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Originally Posted by Kazran

Exactly if this had just been male and female Viera most of the attention would be on the fact that "hey Final Fantasy finally showed Male Viera! Isn't that cool?" and would have probably have FF fans outside the XIV fan base talking too!

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No, that's in your head again. Outside of the game people would be thinking "Ugh, bunnyboys. What's with that, and why does everyone there look so metro"

Source: I talk with people outside of the game coming from other games, and the lack of cool hypermasculine characters is actually a turnoff. Roegadyn are just... not percieved as cool, due to their old man and green skin aesthetic.

Now we get freaking tiger wrestlers.

I'm so disappointed.. Between this and no new healer I honestly don't know if I'm getting this next expansion. TWO gender locked races after unlocking Miqo'te and Roegadyn.. why??

And the ONLY reason ANY of us were excited for male Viera to begin with was that freaking concept art back when they almost added them instead of the Au Ra.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

And if he had been upfront about it, he could either say males weren't getting anything OR he'd have to blow the lid on content he was saving for this fanfest.

A straight up no comment is the best solution in this case, actually. People reading too far into "no comment" is the problem here.

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No, it's not when this is the result. This is a PR disaster beyond belief. When you're going to disappoint someone you don't hold it off, that only makes it all the worst and draws the ire from your consumer base.

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Originally Posted by KittenMittens

No, it's not when this is the result. This is a PR disaster beyond belief. When you're going to disappoint someone you don't hold it off, that only makes it all the worst and draws the ire from your consumer base.

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I look at your assertion of this being a pr disaster and crack the faintest of smiles.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

Ugh, yes. GDI. I wasn't exactly expecting to be insanely disappointed. But they managed it.

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I'm in the same boat. It's worth a shot to contact them and try anyways, but I guess that's what we get for jumping the gun haha. I just cancelled sub. For what it's worth, I'm sure they will undo these locks one day. As others have said, they'll probably add male buns and female lions later and try to reap the positive karma lol.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I look at your assertion of this being a pr disaster and crack the faintest of smiles.

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Oh come now, the disappointment in the community is evident both here and in the livestream chat. Not to mention it's attachment to gender makes it a media magnet.

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Originally Posted by wylantar

I'm so disappointed.. Between this and no new healer I honestly don't know if I'm getting this next expansion. TWO gender locked races after unlocking Miqo'te and Roegadyn.. why??

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Like Keeric earlier said, most likely to appeal two major groups that had been asking for them; female Viera and bestial race.

Development time is finite, so you have to make cuts somewhere. Especially when their dev team is apparently lacking on female devs. I'm sure you people remember how long it took before Gold Saucers bunny outfit was released for male -characters, now imagine having to do whole race out of it.

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Originally Posted by Thefates

Not to mention it's attachment to gender makes it a media magnet.

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Only in the west though! :D

Well I wasn't disappointed at least. That's just my bias though.

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Only in the west though! :D

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A market that can't be ignored when it comes to FFXIV, not anymore at least.

This is an absurd and horrible decision, please add male and female vireo and hrothgar as soon as possible to correct this. An apology on this backwards and misogynist decision would be cool too.