#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tigore

Derio might just be taking a neutral stance. Even if he were to agree with us, it goes down to a few choices Square has to return the healing to the healers. Either they kill 50 - 90% of the self heals tanks and DPS have now, they incorporate more mechs like what ForsakenRoe suggested with Aetherblight (heal absorb), they reduce the oGCD healing cooldowns present or a combination of the above. The more likely route with the least amount of player complaints would probably be relying on new mechs. The ability to solo those Stormblood Raids / Extremes unsynced for Wondrous Tales might be brought up as one QoL thing we have.

---

I don't think it's necessary to kill off all tank heals, but it does need to come with some form of cost if you use it badly.

Like let's say Bloodwhetting costs 20 beast gauge, but the barrier breaking will grant 20 beast gauge back, so you get punished for using it badly. If Equilibrium needs to keep the regen, then the upfront heal does need to be weaker. Also Shake it off should be changed a bit, it should just grant a barrier, if it absolutely has to heal, then it can return a portion of damage taken by the barrier as a heal after the barrier breaks.

There's a lot of ways to balance without total removal, it's not necessary to completely remove the system as long as it's balanced properly.

I do agree that re-tuning is needed for the tanks, yes. Another WAR even admitted that healing for 180K per strike may be just too much, lol. I am simply predicting how the general crowd would perceive each method of change. I even remember Warcraft players blatantly admitting to remaining OP for a patch because someone else got to. What you suggested does sound pretty fair from my end. Bloodwhetting being treated like TBN will have some issues that the DRK has, of course. Although DRK will probably still have it worse compared to what you propose since getting 20 beast gauge is generally easier than the mana gains for DRK. Just a single Storm's Path / Mythril Tempest combo does it. That pretty much leaves what to do for Nascent Flash. Here is what it does from my character spellbook for everyone to have reference.

To the ally target: the ally receives a 400 pot shield (20s) with a 4s 10% damage reduction and additional 400 pot heals over 8s for each hit the WAR makes
To the Warrior: for 8 seconds, reduces damage taken by 10% and additionally heals for 400 pot for each hit the WAR makes

It's pretty loaded and would probably need to be cut in half for the potencies. I have rarely used it, so I will have to double check if hitting multiple enemies will proc multiple heals. I do know for a fact Bloodwhetting does the multi heals and the tooltip states the same thing for both skills on weaponskills successfully being delivered. The multi heal proc is the most problematic part and will need to be reigned in hard. The 10% damage reduction is probably fine. I will list Bloodwhetting too just in case it is needed for reference.

10% damage reduction base for 8s.
Heals for 400 potency for every single hit the WAR makes over 8s.
Additional 10% damage reduction for 4s.
400 potency shield on self for 20s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aravell

I don't think it's necessary to kill off all tank heals, but it does need to come with some form of cost if you use it badly.

Like let's say Bloodwhetting costs 20 beast gauge, but the barrier breaking will grant 20 beast gauge back, so you get punished for using it badly. If Equilibrium needs to keep the regen, then the upfront heal does need to be weaker. Also Shake it off should be changed a bit, it should just grant a barrier, if it absolutely has to heal, then it can return a portion of damage taken by the barrier as a heal after the barrier breaks.

There's a lot of ways to balance without total removal, it's not necessary to completely remove the system as long as it's balanced properly.

---

I've spitted a random suggestion for Shake it Off in the past that looked something like this:

Quote:

---

You want to have a partywide shield of 21% of WAR’s max HP? You have to consume Vengeance/Damnation.
You want to have the 300p upfront heal? You have to consume Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting.
You want to have the 500p HoT? You have to consume ToB.
Just SIO? Partywide 300p shield. Nothing else.

---

Oh yeah, make this upgrade options available only from lv76 and above as well.

The reaction to 'my OP BW got nerfed this sucks' is part of the reason I think 'Aetherblight' would be one of the better options to go for. It adds something new for Healer gameplay, it opens up design space for new raid mechanics combinations to resolve, but it also indirectly 'nerfs' tank/DPS healing actions somewhat, without changing the potencies (thereby obscuring how much they're nerfed by). For example, a WAR can handle their own Aetherblight still via BW, or their own and one other player via Nascent Flash. But they can't handle all 8 players in the raid, because Shake It Off can't heal for that much/isn't up often enough to handle every round of Aetherblight. Thinking about it a little more, Aetherblight would also allow for Cover to shine a bit more, allowing a Paladin to Cover an ally, take their Aetherblight (along with the PLD's own), and then the PLD could selfheal the debuff away over time via the use of Holy Spirit/Confiteor Combo heals, and Holy Sheltron's regen effect.

But let's take a hypothetical dungeon mechanic, where every... 15s? A raidwide goes out that applies 20k HP of Aetherblight to the party, and for as long as you have any Aetherblight left, you suffer 1% of your Max HP per second as a DOT (so after 100s you die). But, if you block that raidwide with a Barrier, the Aetherblight and DOT is not applied. A DNC's Curing Waltz for me (710 crafted, with Savage weapon (got lucky)) heals me for 10k-ish. So, stack everyone up, and Curing Waltz would just about handle it. But that has a 1min CD. What do we do for the other 3 raidwides that apply Aetherblight, that would occur in that 1min? Shake could prevent one from applying, but has a 90s CD, SMN has some healing tools like Phoenix or Lux Solaris, but they're tied to the rotation and so Lux (the more accessible of the two) has an effective 2min CD because of that. You wouldn't be able to cover every application, you just wouldn't have the CDs available across the 4 non-healer players. Maybe 3x DNC by rotating Curing Waltz and Improvised Finish shields would, barely

Meanwhile, healing 20k HP as a Healer is a trivial task as a level 100. A WHM could clear it with the base healing of Medica 3, plus two ticks of the HOT. One Medica1 is enough in my gear. Or they could use some OGCDs like Lilybell (since the DOT is doing damage, it would keep triggering the plant), or PI-Rapture, or even just casting Esuna on each and every player one at a time. A SCH could prevent the Aetherblight from being applied in the first place, every time, by just casting one Succor, but they could also opt to simply let the damage through, and instead heal through the Aetherblight with burst healing tools like (Recitation)Indomitability or Fey Blessing (or again, casting Esuna on everyone)

What I'm trying to get at is, these 'I'm helping' tools from nonHealers, would be indirectly nerfed back to being 'I'm helping', rather than 'I'm doing your job'. Shake It Off would prevent an application, making it easier for the healer, but it wouldn't be able to prevent every application. But because the potencies are the same as now, and the CDs the same as now, it makes it harder for people to complain they've been 'nerfed', because they're just as strong as before. Though I have no doubt they'd find a way to complain anyway. Nerfing the potencies on those non-Healer healing actions would be far simpler a 'fix', of course (since it doesn't require UI work or anything), but I think that 'fix' has a lot less room for creativity

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I've spitted a random suggestion for Shake it Off in the past that looked something like this:

---

My 'fix' for WAR's Shake specifically, would be to swap the 100p regen to a 100p layered barrier (like Panhaima). Against DOTs (the reason it got changed to have the regen in the first place) it'd be identical in function, but it wouldn't be able to magically restore party HP as it does now (if the barriers don't get consumed, they'd just fall off). Same for Equilibrium's HOT, it could be 5 layers of 300p Barrier, allowing the WAR to remain 'tanky' and 'self-sufficient', but without fully invalidating the purpose of the Healer (only partially invalidating them instead)

Honestly, I just take issue with WAR'S party healing because it's done in a way that doesn't make thematic sense.

Imagine if Shake it Off was reworked to boost the party's max HP by 20% and any damage received while the max HP buff is active will trigger a rebound effect where it restores 30% of the damage taken back as HP.

There, you now have a thematic skill that also keeps the healing part, they also gain a niche in having a good tool against multi-hit stacks/raidwides like Harrowing Hell and Cross-Tail Switch while also not being overpowered.

For Rein's idea, it's mostly sacrificing Bloodwhetting for Shake It Off that would never be done. We will have to address nerfing the multi heal procs in one action before it can even be a close trade off. Thrill of the Battle being sacrificed for a 500 pot regen is a huge bargain probably all WARs would take if you mean consuming the buff after using it. Especially if the buff timer is close to one second left.

Either of ForsakenRoe's and Aravell's ideas could work, although we will have to decide which one fits best. One idea can be considered for other tanks too if another one is selected for WAR.

I do think Aetherblight should be considered too since we have that much healing totalled up across all classes along side healers. The alternative would be to increase max HP of every class and have enemies hit harder, but the heal absorb is probably a better idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tigore

For Rein's idea, it's mostly sacrificing Bloodwhetting for Shake It Off that would never be done. We will have to address nerfing the multi heal procs in one action before it can even be a close trade off. Thrill of the Battle being sacrificed for a 500 pot regen is a huge bargain probably all WARs would take if you mean consuming the buff after using it. Especially if the buff timer is close to one second left.

Either of ForsakenRoe's and Aravell's ideas could work, although we will have to decide which one fits best. One idea can be considered for other tanks too if another one is selected for WAR.

I do think Aetherblight should be considered too since we have that much healing totalled up across all classes along side healers. The alternative would be to increase max HP of every class and have enemies hit harder, but the heal absorb is probably a better idea.

---

It occurred more as a 'spitballing' ideas instead of giving it proper thoughts. But the basis is "sacrifice x for y"; I don't want SIO to have all 3 effects in one press readily available when it was specifically GNB/DRK's niche to have something better to deal with "continuous instance of raidwide" as opposed to PLD/WAR's Veil/SIO for "a single instance of raidwide". Since we already have PLD's Veil being the straightforward one, why not have WAR's function more with sliding scale attached? It's weaker than veil on its own. But proper planning means the WAR could capitalize the effects better. Technically they already do today, but it's tied to only +2/4/6% more eHP per cooldowns dispelled and I don't find that impactful enough.

No question for BW's existence though. The fact it survives as it is until now is just beyond comical.

I can think of some other factors to make the idea of sacrificing the buffs to work. Shake It Off would also have to check for the buff timers to determine the strength of the additional effect.

Eg.

If ToB timer is greater than 9s, then
X= 500 potency
Y= 15s

If ToB timer is 1s, then
X= 25 potency
Y= 3s

I’ve gotta ask, how is the PF green river in DT compared to SB for everyone? I mained AST back then, but I don’t recall the healer shortage being this bad back then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LynxDubh

I’ve gotta ask, how is the PF green river in DT compared to SB for everyone? I mained AST back then, but I don’t recall the healer shortage being this bad back then.

---

I don't fully remember the exact breakdown of 'how many of each role are in PF' from back then, but I do remember the general consensus surrounding healer discussion at the time. That being, there wasn't really the kind of 'healer sucks' vibe we have now, and definitely not to the extent we have it now, instead it was mostly a case of 'hey WHM is kinda lacking compared to AST, I wish they'd do something about that' and 'WHM's Lily system is so nothingburger, you can hide the Job Gauge and still play the class just as effectively, because the system has so little impact on your gameplay'

So basically, if they had done the SHB Lily rework and that's it, instead of also deciding 'oh also we're going to delete Aero 3, and make Aero 2 last way longer', we'd likely not be in this situation quite as deep as we are now