How do we feel about tank damage right now?

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/x6ajk...pe=damage-done

Convert it to RDPS and get back to me.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...Any&dataset=99

That also doesn't look like 90% to me.

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1, i'm not about to do your own homework for you

2, good catch. i should have elaborated. I'm talking about gordias savage tier when tanks were allowed str accessories.

I could care less about how much damage I’m doing as my DRK. What I do care about is HOW I’m doing said damage, our skills are so straight forward and dull.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

1, i'm not about to do your own homework for you

2, good catch. i should have elaborated. I'm talking about gordias savage tier when tanks were allowed str accessories.

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1. I've already done it, I just thought maybe you'd want to, you know, back up your statements instead of hoping I'm too lazy to do it. You can check in the thread, it's probably around page 60 or so.

2. Seems to me as early as Midas, they too decided Gordias was a dumpster fire. Gordias's closest contemporary is Deltascape, and by the time Sigmascape came around, that was no longer the case.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Back in heavensward, tanks weren't far behind the DPS. Heck, a good tank could do about 85-90% of a NIN's DPS of similar skill. Now you're saying we should be content with 55% at the lowest when this is what we've known in the past? Well I suppose it's all fine and dandy for you when you yourself stick to DPS this expansion, no?

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To be fair, Ninja's been knee capped for most it's existence to deal less damage. Why? Because people valued Trick Attack so much. Stormblood didn't fix it's damage, just merely gave it more utility to the point it was almost an auto include.

Only now with it's Raid Utility stripped have the devs allowed it to get more damage. Also tanks had to make their entire right side STR based which is debated to this day so it wasn't as clear cut as you seemed to make it.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

That went into sorta ramble by the end there, I apologise. TLDR: any rework would be appreciated as long as it has measurable and scalable skill expression, and IMO damage is easier to scale as well as the fact I personally like being a tank that can dish out a reasonably high amount of damage (which is why i stand by 75%).

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Frankly I would like more meaningful Don't-Die-Do-Kill trade offs. It doesn't need to be a harsh stance system, though I would like one represented on one job.

The choice should be do damage, or don't die. Not do damage and still be hit less than every other archetype because the tank role is more bloated with passive stats than a whale that's been in the sun too long.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the tank archetype dealing high damage, but there is something inherently wrong with wanting our current version of them to do so.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Sure if they could rework the design to account for that that'd be cool but they'd have to rebalance how cooldowns work. I'd have to see how that rework would work, but with how the combat is paced I can't see it working too well. Also if the dps checks were tuned right people wouldnt do that. In alexander you could clear with a party of 8 tanks and regular parties weren't replaced, also we have the diversity bonus in parties now to fight against that. Also if the dps checks were tuned right and the diversity bonus didn't exist, bringing all tanks instead of all dps would still be a net loss of one whole damage dealers worth of damage minimum, which would essentially be like trying to pass dps checks with a party member permanantly dead.

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And yet if it was the safest, easiest option for a bunch of random to go and do the content, an all Tank as damage dealers would become the meta.

We saw this with Rathalos on it's EX at first. It was simply easiest to bring 3 tanks and a healer, as the tanks could still pump out enough damage but also not instantly die to messing up mechanics. Sure as people got used to the fight, and gear came up, you started seeing more DPS in that duty but I still see to this day 3 tanks 1 healer.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

And yet if it was the safest, easiest option for a bunch of random to go and do the content, an all Tank as damage dealers would become the meta.

We saw this with Rathalos on it's EX at first. It was simply easiest to bring 3 tanks and a healer, as the tanks could still pump out enough damage but also not instantly die to messing up mechanics. Sure as people got used to the fight, and gear came up, you started seeing more DPS in that duty but I still see to this day 3 tanks 1 healer.

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Rath EX is different as it was literally designed to be beaten by any team comp and the nature of WARs burst made it the best choice combined with its defence. In anything with a meaningful enrage you would get issues taking multiple tanks

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Rath EX is different as it was literally designed to be beaten by any team comp and the nature of WARs burst made it the best choice combined with its defence. In anything with a meaningful enrage you would get issues taking multiple tanks

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Now, yes.

If people get the Damage numbers they seem to want, and the balance isn't taken into account, how would that shift the meta? Yes Rath EX was designed to be beaten by 'any comp' but Tanks became the preferred choice.

Look we have 2 endings here; 1) Tanks get their much demanded damage and fights aren't changed leading to Tanks possibly taking DPS slots because why wouldn't they if they do enough damage and are safer, or 2) Tanks get their much demanded damage and Fights are changed, making the enrage checks even tighter to compenstate for the new expected damage numbers or just giving the boss more HP, which makes the 'feel good damage numbers' basically a band aid.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Frankly I would like more meaningful Don't-Die-Do-Kill trade offs. It doesn't need to be a harsh stance system, though I would like one represented on one job.

The choice should be do damage, or don't die. Not do damage and still be hit less than every other archetype because the tank role is more bloated with passive stats than a whale that's been in the sun too long.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the tank archetype dealing high damage, but there is something inherently wrong with wanting our current version of them to do so.

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That would just mean OT would be always on Damage mode. Plus, we would just figure out like in Stormblood how to stay in DPS mode.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

There is nothing inherently wrong with the tank archetype dealing high damage, but there is something inherently wrong with wanting our current version of them to do so.

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There might not be anything wrong with either version, but the truth of the matter is that this high-damage tank hero is what we've been given for most of this game's life now. It's what we've come to expect, and that's what has drawn so many tank players such as myself to the role. Had we never known the other version, sure, 60% sounds like a delight and might be in comparison to other games. But that's not the case. We've been given this expectation and now it's been robbed of us, and is being robbed of us even further with the passage of time. That's why a good number of us are unhappy.