Shiva model!

Ah, hm..well fair enough. I didn't realize the post had been edited, heh.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

(how do they look at a big gray block for so long and not cry)

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http://24.media.tumblr.com/26815c047...fpvto1_400.gif

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Originally Posted by Inaaca

Ah, hm..well fair enough. I didn't realize the post had been edited, heh.

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Water under the bridge :D

I hope to see a blog post about Free Company and Housing XD - there was talk of windmills and such being place able and giving bonuses to the free company players.. Concept art of a Free Company territory *drools*

Or perhaps other little things that can be placed in zone, gardens..? Yoshida said he cracked some whips on that issue "gardens or whip" "but.. but.." "GARDENS OR WHIP".

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Originally Posted by Gramul

http://24.media.tumblr.com/26815c047...fpvto1_400.gif

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Right.. I've only made silly polygon things (not clay stuff), but of the videos I've seen on youtube my lord.. hours of gray..

+1 for eyes, mentally +2 for making fun of the many hilarious faces of Shepard...

cant wait for the final draw of shiva and i cant also wait to see how our summon spirits gonna look O.o

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Originally Posted by Shougun

That "this is a WIP" was added after Ferne responded to everyone.

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Exactly. You can see the original posts at three main FFXIV community sites. There was no mention that it was a work in progress. It was later added for clarification.

-FFXIVCore
-ZAM
-Gamer Escape

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Originally Posted by Shougun

That "this is a WIP" was added after Ferne responded to everyone.

And even then there is no logical reasoning why someone would -expect- those colors to be there and not be the real ones unless they were told it was so the modelers eyes dont burst - which was something I always wondered anyways (how do they look at a big gray block for so long and not cry) lol.

"It doesn't look like the concept art"

Isn't sufficient reason to think those are not the real colors

"It doesn't look like X"

Isn't sufficient reason to think those are not the real colors

"Its in alpha"

Isn't sufficient reason to think those are not the real colors

Literally - its not obvious.

People with experience in that realm may know whats going on (and a few politely described it, thank you to those people :) ), and then there are people who like to assume their opinions are facts "obvious because I feel so".

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So can we attribute the actual issue here to ignorance? Fernehalwes stated what program this was created in. To me, and I guess this could just be an opinion, people could have googled ZBrush and what normal map sculpt data is to find out that it's still a very early version with limited uses and applications. Actually, just googled the creation of a 3D image form start to finish and educate one's self.

Perhaps the real question would've been: What evidence or reasoning suggested those ARE the real colors? (this would've been before Fernehalwes had to come clear up the apparent misunderstanding). There would've been little evidence suggesting they are and more leading us to believe that they weren't. Ignorance can be a reason, but it's not an excuse.

This is all old news, but I see holes in your logic.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

http://24.media.tumblr.com/26815c047...fpvto1_400.gif

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Look; look with your special eyes.

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Originally Posted by EinSoFZ

So can we attribute the actual issue here to ignorance? Fernehalwes stated what program this was created in. To me, and I guess this could just be an opinion, people could have googled ZBrush and what normal map sculpt data is to find out that it's still a very early version with limited uses and applications. Actually, just googled the creation of a 3D image form start to finish and educate one's self.

Perhaps the real question would've been: What evidence or reasoning suggested those ARE the real colors? (this would've been before Fernehalwes had to come clear up the apparent misunderstanding). There would've been little evidence suggesting they are and more leading us to believe that they weren't. Ignorance can be a reason, but it's not an excuse.

This is all old news, but I see holes in your logic.

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Good to see you have holes in your logic :)

There is no "real question if those "are the real colors"". If you see a model, even a WIP model, you would expect in the future what you will see as an improvement but in a general sense not a 180.

Without knowing the personal points like "mah eyes are frying" there is no reason to assume they would color a model differently then what it actually will be (like I said some people informed us on this process (and other related processes) and Fern doubled up on it).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Good to see you have holes in your logic :)

There is no "real question is those "are the real colors"". If you see a model, even a WIP model, you would expect what you see will be improved on in a general sense but that a WIP doesnt do a 180.

Without knowing the personal points like "mah eyes are frying" there is no reason to assume they would color a model differently then what it actually will be.

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Again, that's an ignorance thing. If people had looked up what 3D art creation involves after Ferne directly stated what this Shiva was and how it was created, it would've avoided confusion. If you see a model, don't assume you know what you're looking at or what stage it's in and if you're told what you're looking at and don't know what that means you might want to find out before you assume.

Why can't you do a 180 in the creation process? Changing color is as easy as clicking a button. Artists often use placeholder colors and other things before they implement the true and actual colors. That aspect isn't even specific to the 3D process. Topically speaking, I think it's more reasonable to assume they'd stick to their own design, which is finished, than do a 180 and make the final look like what we see now. But that's just me.

Ein that's silly, It's a case of "You don't know what you don't know" If they don't know about about 3D image creation how would they even know what to look up?! \o.O/

I do know what they DID look up, All the Shiva images from Final Fantasy and Beyond!

Cuz they know sum bout THAT and THIS Shiva ain't THAT

lol

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Originally Posted by EinSoFZ

Again, that's an ignorance thing. If people had looked up what 3D art creation involves after Ferne directly stated what this Shiva was and how it was created, it would've avoided confusion. If you see a model, don't assume you know what you're looking at or what stage it's in and if you're told what you're looking at and don't know what that means you might want to find out before you assume.

Why can't you do a 180 in the creation process? Changing color is as easy as clicking a button. Artists often use placeholder colors and other things before they implement the true and actual colors. That aspect isn't even specific to the 3D process. Topically speaking, I think it's more reasonable to assume they'd stick to their own design, which is finished, than do a 180 and make the final look like what we see now. But that's just me.

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Even if you looked it up, like I did it wouldn't change much. When I read - no where did it say "color it like you dont want it to look like". Also if you see something, even if you dont understand it, you can comment on it as much as you want (I bet more then 80% of the items sitting next to you right now you can't explain fully, including the how to use, how to make, and how its derivatives are formed - yet you probably have made a comment about all of them Like "windows sux, or rox").

I dont know a thing about making movies, I'd probably make one of the worst movies ever - but that doesnt mean I cant say a movie was really bad, the camera work was horrible, ect ect.

You can do a 180 in the process, but it isn't expected - and you would even less expect someone to do it on purpose (not that the whole of shiva is a 180 but changing her from a humanoid likeness to freezy ice is a big change in color scheme).


A lack of knowledge in the subject matter did affect the conversation, but it is indeed a perfectly good excuse. Now if only the side that didnt know just commented on the model and not so much on the colors and the people that did know stop acting like everyone is such a damn noob and should be ashamed (not everyone fits either category, like there are many who took back some of their comments after learning more and some that just kept on making pictures and teaching).

"No its not an excuse" I hope you can follow this (going to make it corny :D):

Aliens come to earth and will let the world live if you can shoot a soda can 100 feet away the first time. However, never shooting a gun before you fail and the world dies. Your ignorance cost the world its life. IT is however not expected you could have done it because you didnt know how, therefore it is a perfectly valid excuse.

So two fold - you dont need to know everything in order to talk about it, and ignorance -can- be an excuse.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Ein that's silly, It's a case of "You don't know what you don't know" If they don't know about about 3D image creation how would they even know what to look up?! \o.O/

I do know what they DID look up, All the Shiva images from Final Fantasy and Beyond!

Cuz they know sum bout THAT and THIS Shiva ain't THAT

lol

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I covered that.....Ferne said:

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(This is normal map sculpt data created using ZBrush for those of you keeping track)

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The people in the thread that helped to explain ZBrush and normal map sculpts helped greatly before it was apparently necessary for Ferne to need to come in and say himself that it's a WIP. Before those knowledgeable about ZBrush etc. clarified it, google could've explained the same thing.

People have right to be confused when looking at the model, yes. But the problem is, SEVERAL posters have already explaining what is it (Zbrush,mapping etc), but the other posters continue slagging the model. I think it is an indirect insult to those who have the knowledge on it, but thats FF XIV forum for you....

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Even if you looked it up, like I did it wouldn't change much. When I read - no where did it say "color it like you dont want it to look like". Also if you see something, even if you dont understand it, you can comment on it as much as you want (I bet more then 80% of the items sitting next to you right now you can't explain fully, including the how to use, how to make, and how its derivatives are formed - yet you probably have made a comment about all of them Like "windows sux, or rox").

I dont know a thing about making movies, I'd probably make one of the worst movies ever - but that doesnt mean I cant say a movie was really bad, the camera work was horrible, ect ect.

You can do a 180 in the process, but it isn't expected - and you would even less expect someone to do it on purpose (not that the whole of shiva is a 180 but changing her from a humanoid likeness to freezy ice is a big change in color scheme).


A lack of knowledge in the subject matter did affect the conversation, but it is indeed a perfectly good excuse. Now if only the side that didnt know just commented on the model and not so much on the colors and the people that did know stop acting like everyone is such a damn noob and should be ashamed (not everyone fits either category, like there are many who took back some of their comments after learning more and some that just kept on making pictures and teaching).

"No its not an excuse" I hope you can follow this (going to make it corny :D):

Aliens come to earth and will let the world live if you can shoot a soda can 100 feet away the first time. However, never shooting a gun before you fail and the world dies. Your ignorance cost the world its life. IT is however not expected you could have done it because you didnt know how, therefore it is a perfectly valid excuse.

So two fold - you dont need to know everything in order to talk about it, and ignorance -can- be an excuse.

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Now I'm not saying that people can't discuss it or that their input isn't valuable if they're not very knowledgeable at all. I'm only saying that before people got all up in arms and quite literally got mad she looked this way, a little self-education would've gone a long way. The color scheme chosen to ease it on the eyes was completely the artist's choice. People who are ignorant shouldn't jump to conclusions....from what I saw that was the problem. They colored her like that so obviously they've chosen to use this new color design for her! That's not like Shiva at all!

Artists do 180's all the time. They generally don't do them when there is an official design they are following. Yes, they're going to make her cape red when it's white in the official design. That'd be like making Garuda pink and then having all of this artwork around where she's green (they could actually make Garuda pink with a few clicks). Contradictory.

It's tough to explain my thought process on the matter, but to me it's like 1 + 1 = 2. When I look at the other primals, I saw that they strictly followed the 2D complete design; same colors, same hair/face/etc. appears in the final 3D image we saw in the game. That combined with a little knowledge about 3D creation just led me to believe it couldn't possibly be anything more than a WIP that would be changed from colors to resolution. In a way it's like people were saying SE wasn't even going to stick to their own design based on nothing more than this preview.

I see your intent with your example on ignorance, but if ignorance is an excuse it's a really bad one however accurate or unavoidable it was. Sometimes it's unavoidable to be ignorant since no one knows everything and there's no time to learn what you're dealing with. In the case of this thread, there's no alien force putting the gun to people before they reply :)

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Originally Posted by Aion

People have right to be confused when looking at the model, yes. But the problem is, SEVERAL posters have already explaining what is it (Zbrush,mapping etc), but the other posters continue slagging the model. I think it is an indirect insult to those who have the knowledge on it, but thats FF XIV forum for you....

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Well purposely remaining ignorant is different :P (I think most people talking bad about it (colors wise) didn't read the posts telling people what was what, I know someone commented right after Fern and then was like "edit: Well.. nvm lol")

But "that's the forums for you" is indeed probably the most accurate answer to every issue lol

/creatememe
/grab "ohyou.jpg" -"oh you" + "Thats the forums for you"
/print

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

The images are of a a high-res normal-map sculpt.

The colors you see will not be used for her in-game model.

Once the game model is finished, and it it has been given the real-time shaders (including colors/effects), it will look almost exactly like the concept art.

I'm quite pleased with her design~

Could we have a high-res version of the concept art please?



You have it exactly right.

The colors used in the Sculpt (yes, even the hair colors) are just there for the artist to help distinguish between sub-objects, or for a quick reference for review.

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color and textures are find and all. but howabout her face, and how tall she is.. and how changing the model color to blue and touch up on the textures isnt going to make her look like shiva?

This looks like Shiva's twerpy little sister.

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Originally Posted by KittenStomper

color and textures are find and all. but howabout her face, and how tall she is.. and how changing the model color to blue and touch up on the textures isnt going to make her look like shiva?

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Slightly confused but if I read your last sentence right, then changing the colors to cool colors and adding textures will make her look pretty Shiva like (imo) - after that they might add some shaders like shinny sparkles of fun.

Without a scale next to her we really cant say how tall she is, they could have really zoomed in on a tiny model- or it could be freaking huge.. lol

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Slightly confused but if I read your last sentence right, then changing the colors to cool colors and adding textures will make her look pretty Shiva like (imo) - after that they might add some shaders like shinny sparkles of fun.

Without a scale next to her we really cant say how tall she is, they could have really zoomed in on a tiny model- or it could be freaking huge.. lol

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Her face is all wrong man, blue, purple, green, whatever... its not a shiva face... it belongs somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by KittenStomper

Her face is all wrong man, blue, purple, green, whatever... its not a shiva face... it belongs somewhere else.

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Are you talking about the multicolored hair? They could be using the many colors as place holders for ice or shades of blue, without an interview with the artist we dont know - maybe he did it because he wanted to punk her out :D.

I think her face is much "sharper and younger" then the concept arts - but seeing its a WIP maybe they will be working to the concept art more. I'd have to agree that I can see a physical face difference in the model - one which I prefer the concept art's shape more.

Though in the wider angle shot you can hardly tell.

(Looking at the photos again - its crazy how much detail goes into these models, I remember seeing some monster designs in 1.0... holy crap XD).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Are you talking about the multicolored hair? They could be using the many colors as place holders for ice or shades of blue, without an interview with the artist we dont know - maybe he did it because he wanted to punk her out :D.

I think her face is much "sharper and younger" then the concept arts - but seeing its a WIP maybe they will be working to the concept art more. I'd have to agree that I can see a physical face difference in the model - one which I prefer the concept art's shape more.

Though in the wider angle shot you can hardly tell.

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She is speaking of the face itself, shes saying "it doesn't matter the color the face doesn't look right." (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong kittenstomper.)

I'm not a huge fan of Shivas face or Garudas face for this game but I think it is a stylistic choice. I don't feel strongly for or against it, I just know its not my fav of the series.

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Originally Posted by Imoen

She is speaking of the face itself, shes saying "it doesn't matter the color the face doesn't look right." (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong kittenstomper.)

I'm not a huge fan of Shivas face or Garudas face for this game but I think it is a stylistic choice. I don't feel strongly for or against it, I just know its not my fav of the series.

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I must be color blind because I dont see purple in the face lol - or green anywhere XD

What do you think of the concept art?

I agree with Kitten that she looks a bit like a young rebellious teen- in model form, I feel the concept art isnt that way.

(I thought Garuda's face was weird but then I saw her attitude in game, she is psycho.. it all fits lol)

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Originally Posted by Imoen

She is speaking of the face itself, shes saying "it doesn't matter the color the face doesn't look right." (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong kittenstomper.)

I'm not a huge fan of Shivas face or Garudas face for this game but I think it is a stylistic choice. I don't feel strongly for or against it, I just know its not my fav of the series.

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Yeah Imoen, this is exactly what i'm saying. Also back to shougun, even though there is not a scale, the wide to with proportion makes her appear to be short, she could be tall.. but then shes going to be thick.. she should be in my opinion tall and slender... never thick.. and never short.. Compare her torso from the concept art to the 3d model, her torso is shorter, legs are shorter comparatively as well. And her face is round and should be longer as well.. more oval.. and her facial features... again.. IMO... are not shiva facial features.. and im talking about this BECAUSE.. i agree. the colors may not be finished.. and the shading and whatever may not be finished.. but I think the over all model is finished (because I didnt read otherwise, but please prove me wrong).. and it looks wrong to me.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I must be color blind because I dont see purple in the face lol - or green anywhere XD

What do you think of the concept art?

I agree with Kitten that she looks a bit like a young rebellious teen- in model form, I feel the concept art isnt that way.

(I thought Garuda's face was weird but then I saw her attitude in game, she is psycho.. it all fits lol)

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To this, i wasnt saying her face was purple.. i was saying it dosnt matter if it was purple, im not talking about colors.. she could be ANY Color and her physical facial and body size features seem wrong.

So long as Shiva keeps those sexy elezen ears...

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I must be color blind because I dont see purple in the face lol - or green anywhere XD

What do you think of the concept art?

I agree with Kitten that she looks a bit like a young rebellious teen- in model form, I feel the concept art isnt that way.

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Lol, no no no. I mean she is saying it doesn't matter what color they make it, she doesn't like the look of the face. (At least I'm pretty sure, again feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

I think the concept is ok, I feel like the overall silhouette gives off a "I'm a B**ch vibe" (Please excuse the language) The turned up nose doesn't help with this. However it could be interpreted as "Proud" or a sense of "Authority" "Rule over... " " Don't get in my way" "Arrogant" To be totally honest I don't know how to explain it. It just doesn't have the "grace" that a lot of the other shivas display in the series.

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Originally Posted by Imoen

Lol, no no no. I mean she is saying it doesn't matter what color they make it, she doesn't like the look of the face. (At least I'm pretty sure, again feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

I think the concept is ok, I feel like the overall silhouette gives off a "I'm a B**ch vibe" (Please excuse the language) The turned up nose doesn't help with this. However it could be interpreted as "Proud" or a sense of "Authority" "Rule over... " " Don't get in my way" "Arrogant" To be totally honest I don't know how to explain it. It just doesn't have the "grace" that a lot of the other shivas display in the series.

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Your following me exactly.. every summon usually looks a little different.. but this is drastic.. if we keep coming up with drastic changes like this.. one day you will NEVER be able to compare one final fantasy to another.. you would only be able to say... yeah.. final fantasy 40 also has a blue woman... but shes 2 feet tall and 500 pounds.. just like somone else said.. if you take a chocobo and give it arms.. you can call it a chocobo.. but that sort of change is so great its not going to be a final fantasy chocobo anymore... but if you take a chocobo and give it different highlights.. that sort of change is very minor..

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Originally Posted by Imoen

Lol, no no no. I mean she is saying it doesn't matter what color they make it, she doesn't like the look of the face. (At least I'm pretty sure, again feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

I think the concept is ok, I feel like the overall silhouette gives off a "I'm a B**ch vibe" (Please excuse the language) The turned up nose doesn't help with this. However it could be interpreted as "Proud" or a sense of "Authority" "Rule over... " " Don't get in my way" "Arrogant" To be totally honest I don't know how to explain it. It just doesn't have the "grace" that a lot of the other shivas display in the series.

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Oh well I have failed reading it then - Kitten clarified you are correct lol.

With the model I feel very similar a "I'm a haughty teen", its in her nose (up), eyes (sharp) and eye brows (raised) - as well has having a very sharp face. I like the concept art, It does vary from the usual Shiva but I could guess that was Shiva. The concept art (which is small and of one perspective so its a little hard to fully evaluate) looks more mystical to me - still "cold, and proud" but not like rebellious teen (which isnt very mystical, just want to slap lol).

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Originally Posted by Imoen

Lol, no no no. I mean she is saying it doesn't matter what color they make it, she doesn't like the look of the face. (At least I'm pretty sure, again feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

I think the concept is ok, I feel like the overall silhouette gives off a "I'm a B**ch vibe" (Please excuse the language) The turned up nose doesn't help with this. However it could be interpreted as "Proud" or a sense of "Authority" "Rule over... " " Don't get in my way" "Arrogant" To be totally honest I don't know how to explain it. It just doesn't have the "grace" that a lot of the other shivas display in the series.

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The TV trope of the "Defrosting Ice Queen", now with a literal queen of ice with no defrosting.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Oh well I have failed reading it then - Kitten clarified you are correct lol.

With the model I feel very similar a "I'm a haughty teen", its in her nose (up), eyes (sharp) and eye brows (raised) - as well has having a very sharp face. I like the concept art though. It does vary from the usual Shiva but I could guess that was Shiva. The concept art (which is small and of one perspective) looks more mystical to me - still "cold, and proud" but not like rebellious teen (which isnt very mystical, just want to slap lol).

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you got it now man, this is what im saying. The concept art says shiva to me.. the 3d model says short teenager/pixie like woman with an attitude... which is not shiva.. not mystical, as you said.

Shiva may look like she has some sort of attitude.. but its a sexy attitude, this thing might have an attitude.. but based on her facial features it would look like the kind you get from "my sweet 16' off of MTV.. and that's not sexy.. that's annoying.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I must be color blind because I dont see purple in the face lol - or green anywhere XD

What do you think of the concept art?

I agree with Kitten that she looks a bit like a young rebellious teen- in model form, I feel the concept art isnt that way.

(I thought Garuda's face was weird but then I saw her attitude in game, she is psycho.. it all fits lol)

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Ya it fits with in context (Garuda) which is what I care more about than just an out of context model shot. Which is why I don't really have a strong for or against it. But ya out of context, thats the vibe I get from it. (The craftsmanship is top notch though so no disrespect to the person modeling)

I believe in FFXI lore the Queen Shiva was forced from her home at a young age and had to die alone from exposure to the cold...
If they have a similar background to her in XIV then she fits perfectly, though she certainly looks more mature, detailed and downright gorgeous then XIs version

I am surprised there was not this much concern for FFXIV's version of Siren, she looks like Chocolina fell off the wagon.

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Originally Posted by Niqote

I believe in FFXI lore the Queen Shiva was forced from her home at a young age and had to die alone from exposure to the cold...
If they have a similar background to her in XIV then she fits perfectly, though she certainly looks more mature, detailed and downright gorgeous then XIs version

I am surprised there was not this much concern for FFXIV's version of Siren, she looks like Chocolina fell off the wagon.

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I'm not really concerned, FFX Shiva has always been my fav, they are going to be hard pressed to make a better one in my opinion and when I say better I mean one that I like more.

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Originally Posted by Imoen

I'm not really concerned, FFX Shiva has always been my fav, they are going to be hard pressed to make a better one in my opinion and when I say better I mean one that I like more.

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I think how they present her personality will be the real winner. I mean look at Garuda, she looks relatively standard in a Gardua-ish way...

And then comes the introduction CS where she drops a bunch of Gridanians from the sky with a hearty 'splat' and you think... that EVIL motherless son of a half baked Chocobo! ...Oh dear Nophica she is going to do that to me next isn't she?

And the Music! The score made that battle.. it was exciting and gave even more depth to Garuda.

Character design is only part of it ^_^

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Originally Posted by KittenStomper

you got it now man, this is what im saying. The concept art says shiva to me.. the 3d model says short teenager/pixie like woman with an attitude... which is not shiva.. not mystical, as you said.

Shiva may look like she has some sort of attitude.. but its a sexy attitude, this thing might have an attitude.. but based on her facial features it would look like the kind you get from "my sweet 16' off of MTV.. and that's not sexy.. that's annoying.

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Every summon is re-imagined for each final fantasy to some extent this one is no different. They have gone out of their way to make sure of this. Personally my favorite version of Shiva was from 10 with the dreds <3. People need to stop asking for reruns of the old stuff from past games. Think about it ... If Shiva was the exact same from FF1 to now you would be more than sick of looking at her and I'm sure she will be appearing a few more titles to come. Take it for what it is you either like it or you don't because at this point I really don't see them changing anything major on the models other than the colors. Nit picking Shiva cause you think she gives off the wrong vibe is crazy to me, Especially when it's not a finished product.

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Originally Posted by KittenStomper

Your following me exactly.. every summon usually looks a little different.. but this is drastic.. if we keep coming up with drastic changes like this.. one day you will NEVER be able to compare one final fantasy to another.. you would only be able to say... yeah.. final fantasy 40 also has a blue woman... but shes 2 feet tall and 500 pounds.. just like somone else said.. if you take a chocobo and give it arms.. you can call it a chocobo.. but that sort of change is so great its not going to be a final fantasy chocobo anymore... but if you take a chocobo and give it different highlights.. that sort of change is very minor..

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There is no template of Shiva or any of the Primals FFXIV's, Ifrit doesn't look anything like FFVII's same goes for the rest in every single game . what you are doing is insulting FFXIV's artist on his take of the Primals

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Originally Posted by Niqote

I think how they present her personality will be the real winner. I mean look at Garuda, she looks relatively standard in a Gardua-ish way...

And then comes the introduction CS where she drops a bunch of Gridanians from the sky with a hearty 'splat' and you think... that EVIL motherless son of a half baked Chocobo! ...Oh dear Nophica she is going to do that to me next isn't she?

And the Music! The score made that battle.. it was exciting and gave even more depth to Garuda.

Character design is only part of it ^_^

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Ya, that's why I'm not concerned, I was only commenting on it out of context because someone asked me what I thought of it. I'm still very capable of loving the "Bad guy" version of Shiva as an addition to the series. It will be a lot better when it is in context. :)

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Exactly. You can see the original posts at three main FFXIV community sites. There was no mention that it was a work in progress. It was later added for clarification.

-FFXIVCore
-ZAM
-Gamer Escape

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Actually I think they were referring to the post on the developers blog which does clearly state that before and after the model pics where most people who don't stalk the forums would see it first.

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Originally Posted by Zaiyah

Actually I think they were referring to the post on the developers blog which does clearly state that before and after the model pics where most people who don't stalk the forums would see it first.

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It was stated after the images, but you have to understand the lingo/process to understand where it was in the pipeline. The top section was added shortly after Fern posted in this thread. This is in the past. :)

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Originally Posted by Zaiyah

Actually I think they were referring to the post on the developers blog which does clearly state that before and after the model pics where most people who don't stalk the forums would see it first.

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Actually I think Ferne had to edit the blog post for clarity's sake. I don't remember seeing that before his confirmation post on the forums.

OK one more post:

I thought this video of Sorceress Edea was a geat example of what I expect from Shiva.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NADJo6wOcmA

She's one of the most intimidating women in all of FF, able to destroy you with a dismissive wave of her hand (assuming you aren't a SeeD). She even uses ice magic shortly after this scene, but that's part of a bigger spoiler :3.

I wonder how much of Shiva's new design is inspired by characters like Edea.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Her skin is too... human colored.

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Fixed that for you

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/5...4143b01e64.jpg