Length MSQ from all the expansions - it is getting insane

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

What is so toxic?

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People forcing it on others, thinking the story should be a thousand hours long because "muh storygame"

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Originally Posted by Lukha

You might be right that nobody but FFXIV players care about story in an MMO...but this is FFXIV and FFXIV players care about story in our MMO. It's a selling point and key feature which many people enjoy or at least don't mind, considering the game has been quite successful for a while now.

Sooo what do you want SE to do? Piss off its existing loyal playerbase to please people who don't like a core component of their product that sets them apart from the competition?

And how exactly do they even go about pleasing you in this situation, considering that they already offer the option to skip past all that boring story - for a price. They're not going to give up the $$ they make from story skips for people with short attention spans, especially considering the story is at least 80% of the content in this game, meaning that people who skip it are unlikely to end up paying subscription fees for very long once they get bored of the 'endgame'

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So much of a selling point that the story boosts are on top sales every week

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

So much of a selling point that the story boosts are on top sales every week

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Alts and people who just want to raid.
But it Doesn't disprove that FFXIV is the main attraction for many if not most people.
(inb4 Copium auto-response or some other nonsense response)

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Alts and people who just want to raid.
But it Doesn't disprove that FFXIV is the main attraction for many if not most people.
(inb4 Copium auto-response or some other nonsense response)

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Yeah because so many people have alts in this game lmao, werent you the one saying that it was fine to gear up all jobs on one character to BiS and that they didnt need alts ?

Now all of a sudden alts are being made for that and for raiding ?

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Originally Posted by Reimar

I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy about coffee being the main thing sold at this coffee shop. I see from your three characters that you've invested a not-inconsiderable amount of time and/or money at this coffee shop where you hate the... [checks notes] coffee. Perhaps another venue would be more to your liking? World of Waffles is a pretty popular place for people to hang out. There's also Green Watermelons 2, Spiced Wine: the Other Refreshment, RareSausage, Old Spicy RareSausage, MapleSnacks, and many, many more.

Or you can keep yelling at the waitstaff to change the menu. With over a thousand posts, I imagine you do more of that than you do eating and drinking.

As for me, I'll have another cup.

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"just play another game if you dont like it lol" is a tldr of this

toxic positivity at its best, either you like the entirety of the game as it is and you are very happy, or you can just play another game, you cant like a certain part and hate another, that's not allowed.

Also FFXIV is an MMORPG before being a story game, might be a good time to put that in your thick skull

"Final Fantasy XIV is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) developed and published by Square Enix."

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

<snipping entirely too many posts>

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I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy about coffee being the main thing sold at this coffee shop. I see from your three characters that you've invested a not-inconsiderable amount of time and/or money at this coffee shop where you hate the... [checks notes] coffee. Perhaps another venue would be more to your liking? World of Waffles is a pretty popular place for people to hang out. There's also Green Watermelons 2, Spiced Wine: the Other Refreshment, RareSausage, Old Spicy RareSausage, MapleSnacks, and many, many more.

Or you can keep yelling at the waitstaff to change the menu. With over a thousand posts, I imagine you do more of that than you do eating and drinking.

As for me, I'll have another cup.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

People forcing it on others, thinking the story should be a thousand hours long because "muh storygame"

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Won't you agree then by trying to invalidate your fellow players that do enjoy the story, is toxic as well?

You can't run away from the fact it is a story-focused game though, wherever you like it or not. You will keep buying skips and the rest of us will enjoy the journey and not take shortcuts to the endgame.

Also, people are not forcing anything onto others, the game forces the story onto the player, as progression is locked behind MSQ. Even if you purchase a skip you still have to go through the latest expansion.

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toxic positivity at its best

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Like you have spurred passive-aggressiveness this whole thread?
I came here with an open mind to have a debate on the various twist and turns this thread as developed into but alas, here we are.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Yeah because so many people have alts in this game lmao

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Actually, a great many people have alts in this game. I don't believe it's a majority mind you but there is plenty of people who have alts. Most people I know do. You even confirmed you have an alt.
I have a handful myself. Raiders are probably the primary group of people who use it though.

I originally made alts for crafting/specialist reasons, storage, and brace yourself... replay the story (this was before NG+ was a thing).

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

You know whats funny about story defenders like you? Not even Square themselves considers it a selling point, else they wouldnt allow you to skip it with money. You dont see Blizzard selling you "raid skips" because raids are the selling point of the game, you dont see ArenaNet offering story skips for GW2 because they care enough about the story to make it fun and dont want people to skip that. Funny that Square is the only one that sells a way to skip the (claimed by fans) "selling point" of the game. ESO is probably the closest in terms of trying to tell a story to FF14 and you dont see Bethesda/Zenimax selling you a story skip.

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*yet

SE is a business, they like money. That's the only reason a skip exists. It's honorable that some companies don't offer it but the way I see it, it's just a matter of time.
I can't recall when it was introduced but if my memory is correct it was during Stormblood expansion, but my memory can be fussy. It's a long time ago.

Blizzard in-directly sells raid skips with WoW Token, from my pov at least.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It's an MMORPG, it's not a story game. FFX is a story game.

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That's fine cause I didn't say it's a story game, I have said it's a story-focused and based game. It's two different things. You're right, a offline single player game like Final Fantasy 2-10 was story games, yes I don't include 1 cause it barely had a story.

You can twist my words all you like.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Provide a free skip, and then its not forced

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Sooner or later, they probably will have to do something like that, to a certain point. Or do something.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

If it works so well, and its always top sales, MAYBE just MAYBE it's because the story is just too long and too boring for a lot of people, it's not as popular as you think it is, else it wouldnt be top sales EVERY week

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I'm confused as to what point you're trying to prove. That a skip is popular? And?
We don't have the data points as to which type of people that using a boost/skip, we can make assumptions but that's sort of, disingenuous because either side could use it for their own benefit in their own narrative.

Technically they are in the top sales, but it's not in the top, there is other items that are outselling a story skip. As of posting this, there is 1 boost on 8/20. Fantasia, emotes and mounts outsell it. We don't know the figures but I would imagine it's by a margin.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Are you good my guy ? Do we know each other ? Do you know why I pay for the game ?

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Maybe cause you're on this crusade of having some disdain for the game. Calling people toxic?
When levied some valid points, you and Shinkuno go "lmao!", "copium", name-calling, or some other nonsense reply.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

A great deal of roleplayers would be using it as well, or people like me who just like to muck about with glamours and replay the story a few times. NG+ exists now of course, but you're still putting in 70% of the time for minimal rewards, and I'd rather use that to build up an additional character for glamouring

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That's a good example. I'm not involved in the RP scene so it flew over my head. Now that I think of it, I could see many dedicated RP players using alts and skips.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reimar

I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy about coffee being the main thing sold at this coffee shop. I see from your three characters that you've invested a not-inconsiderable amount of time and/or money at this coffee shop where you hate the... [checks notes] coffee. Perhaps another venue would be more to your liking? World of Waffles is a pretty popular place for people to hang out. There's also Green Watermelons 2, Spiced Wine: the Other Refreshment, RareSausage, Old Spicy RareSausage, MapleSnacks, and many, many more.

Or you can keep yelling at the waitstaff to change the menu. With over a thousand posts, I imagine you do more of that than you do eating and drinking.

As for me, I'll have another cup.

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You know whats funny about story defenders like you? Not even Square themselves considers it a selling point, else they wouldnt allow you to skip it with money. You dont see Blizzard selling you "raid skips" because raids are the selling point of the game, you dont see ArenaNet offering story skips for GW2 because they care enough about the story to make it fun and dont want people to skip that. Funny that Square is the only one that sells a way to skip the (claimed by fans) "selling point" of the game. ESO is probably the closest in terms of trying to tell a story to FF14 and you dont see Bethesda/Zenimax selling you a story skip.

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Won't you agree then by trying to invalidate your fellow players that do enjoy the story, is toxic as well?

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Provide a free skip, and then its not forced, forcing people to shell money to skip a thousand hours of MSQ is forcing it on people, because not everyone has that money, and you know what ? People want to play with their friends in an MMO, crazy I know, and for that, either they have to shell the money, or spend a thousand hour doing absolutely boring "fetch 3 bear butts" "talk to x and then go fetch this book" quests, how engaging

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You can't run away from the fact it is a story-focused game though, wherever you like it or not. You will keep buying skips and the rest of us will enjoy the journey and not take shortcuts to the endgame.

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It's an MMORPG, it's not a story game. FFX is a story game.

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Also, people are not forcing anything onto others, the game forces the story onto the player, as progression is locked behind MSQ. Even if you purchase a skip you still have to go through the latest expansion.

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Just like in WoW, but the big difference is that in WoW it doesnt take an obscene amount of time, while in FFXIV it does.

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Actually, a great many people have alts in this game. I have a handful myself. Raiders are probably the primary group of people who use it though.
I originally made alts for crafting/specialist reasons, storage, and prepare yourself... replay the story (this was before NG+ was a thing)

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That was a response because a few pages back (or on a different thread I dont remember) they said that you didnt need alts to get BiS gear for all jobs, but apparently now they do need alts for raiding

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SE is a business, they like money. That's the only reason a skip exists. It's honorable that some companies don't offer it but the way I see it, it's just a matter of time.
I can't recall when it was introduced but if my memory is correct it was during Stormblood expansion, but my memory can be fussy. It's a long time ago.

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If it works so well, and its always top sales, MAYBE just MAYBE it's because the story is just too long and too boring for a lot of people, it's not as popular as you think it is, else it wouldnt be top sales EVERY week, how do you not understand that ?

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Actually, a great many people have alts in this game. [...] Raiders are probably the primary group of people who use it though.

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A great deal of roleplayers would be using it as well, or people like me who just like to muck about with glamours and replay the story a few times. NG+ exists now of course, but you're still putting in 70% of the time for minimal rewards, and I'd rather use that to build up an additional character for glamouring.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

You know whats funny about story defenders like you? Not even Square themselves considers it a selling point, else they wouldnt allow you to skip it with money.

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On the contrary, if they didn't consider it a selling point, they wouldn't be putting a lot of time and effort into adding duty support NPCs to all the older content so it's easier to play through.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

"just play another game if you dont like it lol" is a tldr of this

toxic positivity at its best, either you like the entirety of the game as it is and you are very happy, or you can just play another game, you cant like a certain part and hate another, that's not allowed.

Also FFXIV is an MMORPG before being a story game, might be a good time to put that in your thick skull

"Final Fantasy XIV is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) developed and published by Square Enix."

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No one's saying you can't play and enjoy the game, you just seem to be making it very difficult for yourself.

If you don't like the story, you're welcome to buy a skip, no one is stopping you. I think we're all just very confused why people are complaining at length about this on the forums instead of just doing that.

Ultimately SE is never going to offer skips for free, because they make money off of them, as a trade-off for losing subscription time on the people who buy skips and then get bored after realizing they bought a game and then paid extra not to have to play most of it, or only resub at the beginning of a new raid tier. And that's okay! If you ever have a change of heart there's always NG+ or an alt, but until then we're all happy you're boosting sub numbers for the short time you'll be with us, and your money will go towards more story for the rest of us to enjoy XD

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Originally Posted by Lukha

No one's saying you can't play and enjoy the game, you just seem to be making it very difficult for yourself.

If you don't like the story, you're welcome to buy a skip, no one is stopping you. I think we're all just very confused why people are complaining at length about this on the forums instead of just doing that.

Ultimately SE is never going to offer skips for free, because they make money off of them, as a trade-off for losing subscription time on the people who buy skips and then get bored after realizing they bought a game and then paid extra not to have to play most of it, or only resub at the beginning of a new raid tier. And that's okay! If you ever have a change of heart there's always NG+ or an alt, but until then we're all happy you're boosting sub numbers for the short time you'll be with us, and your money will go towards more story for the rest of us to enjoy XD

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Are you good my guy ? Do we know each other ? Do you know why I pay for the game ?

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That is literally wrong on so many levels, a really small amount of players care about "why" they fight x boss in most MMO's, they really dont

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Oh? Based on...what exactly? or is this another one of your "I know it all therefore everyone else but me is wrong" posts? How do you know one way or the other?

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, FFXIV is the only exception to that, which is why there are these toxic "story" defenders, because no other MMO's players actually care, and that's also why the boost is almost first on sale every week.

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I beg to differ, based on my own experiences starting back in the 80's.. People do have varied tastes, absolutely agreed, but the drive on narrative has been a common theme over the years in multiple MMO's..as well as other genres. I rely on my own interactions, agreed, but you cannot tell me they didnt happen.

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Do you know why I pay for the game ?

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Given your ongoing contempt foe the game, your trashing varied content in general as well as the interests and views of other players, your disdain for the story component of FF 14, there are times when, yes, I actually do wonder this myself.

You and Aveyond seem to be of the same mind, and I confess I am somewhat curious why you pay for a game you apparently despise.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

*yet

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When did skip comes out? Late HW / Early SB? The game had it for like half is lifetime already. Meanwhile WoW is on its 9th expansion and doesnt offer raid skips, ESO is on its i think 6th or 7th Chapter? No story skips here. GW2 released in 2012 and the only boost they added was for leveling, which doesnt skip any stories you can still do your personal stories and ofcourse the expansion stories. Maybe if those games are on their last leg and its in "squeeze any single bit of money left" state theyll add something like that, but there are a million other things they can add before that without outright killing selling points of the games.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

You know whats funny about story defenders like you? Not even Square themselves considers it a selling point, else they wouldnt allow you to skip it with money. You dont see Blizzard selling you "raid skips" because raids are the selling point of the game, you dont see ArenaNet offering story skips for GW2 because they care enough about the story to make it fun and dont want people to skip that. Funny that Square is the only one that sells a way to skip the (claimed by fans) "selling point" of the game. ESO is probably the closest in terms of trying to tell a story to FF14 and you dont see Bethesda/Zenimax selling you a story skip.

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Careful. You're starting to rival Aveyond or TitanMan with the amount of BS you post. lol

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Careful. You're starting to rival Aveyond or TitanMan with the amount of BS you post. lol

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Looks like someone doesnt like actual evidence, or are they wrong ? Please show us where WoW offers raid skips ?

I will wait.

I play FFXIV and WoW, I think I'd know if WoW offered raid skips in the shop.

Stormpeaks, Im curious..and humour me....how much of the story have you actually played? Start to end? Skipped? Im genuinely curious as to how much you have experienced. Back in WOW I had Loremaster, so I am intimately familiar with both WOW and FF 14 story content.

Wow offers raid skips indirectly with wow tokens.

* Player buys tokens
* The player sells tokens for gold
* The player uses gold to buy clears
* The player skipped a raid

This isn't new, if you do play wow as you claim to be, you already know this.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

When did skip comes out? Late HW / Early SB? The game had it for like half is lifetime already. Meanwhile WoW is on its 9th expansion and doesnt offer raid skips, ESO is on its i think 6th or 7th Chapter? No story skips here. GW2 released in 2012 and the only boost they added was for leveling, which doesnt skip any stories you can still do your personal stories and ofcourse the expansion stories. Maybe if those games are on their last leg and its in "squeeze any single bit of money left" state theyll add something like that, but there are a million other things they can add before that without outright killing selling points of the games.

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Yes, that's what I said.
But what's your point? As stated, SE is a business, and businesses like making money. Just cause X Y Z don't have a boost in a cash shop today, doesn't mean they won't introduce one eventually.
People didn't expect SE to add a story and level skip but here we are.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Stormpeaks, Im curious..and humour me....how much of the story have you actually played? Start to end? Skipped? Im genuinely curious as to how much you have experienced. Back in WOW I had Loremaster, so I am intimately familiar with both WOW and FF 14 story content.

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If I were a betting man, little of it and used a skip. Otherwise, it's very odd to me to have so much anger for it.
But in his own words "I'll wait."

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Now thats a huge stretch.

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How so? Please elaborate.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It's not supported by Activision/Blizzard though, so they are not selling it.

FFXIV sells it directly in their store.

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It's also not against TOS to trade services for gold, just like it's not against TOS to buy an Ultimate clear with Gil. So yes, it is indeed supported. There is even a whole boost community in Wow. There was not long ago it was a big controversy about it.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Because Blizzard has no impact on it. If nobody sells raid clear starting tomorrow, then what? The token is still there and still sold by blizzard And if you want to go down the line of player interaction = indirectly selling it in the store then Square sells you GIL indirectly too. Once via level skips (500k gil i think) and even more indirectly via more retainers, which means more quick ventures for potential black/white dyes and more market board slots.

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Correct, and they should remove the token just like the level and story boosts in this game should be removed from our storefront.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Its already pretty much impossible to do some of the side content cause noone does it anymore.

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Can you give some examples?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Wow offers raid skips indirectly with wow tokens.

* Player buys tokens
* The player sells tokens for gold
* The player uses gold to buy clears
* The player skipped a raid

This isn't new, if you do play wow as you claim to be, you already know this.

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Now thats a huge stretch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Wow offers raid skips indirectly with wow tokens.

* Player buys tokens
* The player sells tokens for gold
* The player uses gold to buy clears
* The player skipped a raid

This isn't new, if you do play wow as you claim to be, you already know this.

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It's not supported by Activision/Blizzard though, so they are not selling it. People buy tokens for multiple reasons, if they decide to use it for raid boosts or m+ boosts, that's their choice. Blizzard doesnt sell it directly.

FFXIV sells it directly in their store.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

How so? Please elaborate.

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Because Blizzard has no impact on it. If nobody sells raid clear starting tomorrow, then what? The token is still there and still sold by blizzard, is it now a raid skip? And if you want to go down the line of player interaction = indirectly selling it in the store then Square sells you GIL indirectly too. Once via level skips (500k gil i think) and even more indirectly via more retainers, which means more quick ventures for potential black/white dyes and more market board slots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Looks like someone doesnt like actual evidence, or are they wrong ? Please show us where WoW offers raid skips ?

I will wait.

I play FFXIV and WoW, I think I'd know if WoW offered raid skips in the shop.

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No idea what you are on about. lol I was referring to people caring so little about story that skips exist in the first place. If that were the case SE wouldn't go out of their way to make the MSQ solo-able or they would start showing big spoilers in patch notes. Your reasoning makes no sense and is absurd. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Because Blizzard has no impact on it. If nobody sells raid clear starting tomorrow, then what? The token is still there and still sold by blizzard, is it now a raid skip? And if you want to go down the line of player interaction = indirectly selling it in the store then Square sells you GIL indirectly too. Once via level skips (500k gil i think) and even more indirectly via more retainers, which means more quick ventures for potential black/white dyes and more market board slots.

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If you level boost + MSQ boost its actually 1 mil, technically if we are going down that road, that is also selling gil. And same for retainers as you said it can be technically considered selling gil as you maximize the amount of retainers, which in turn brings more items back and more ventures.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

No idea what you are on about. lol I was referring to people caring so little about story that skips exist in the first place. If that were the case SE wouldn't go out of their way to make the MSQ solo-able or they would start showing big spoilers in patch notes. Your reasoning makes no sense and is absurd. lol

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They HAVE TO make it soloable because eventually you would not be able to progress the game without paying for skips. Its already pretty much impossible to do some of the side content cause noone does it anymore. This will eventually happen to MSQ multiplayer content too. "Quit or pay for a skip" would be a PR disaster

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which is why there are these toxic "story" defenders

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As far as I am aware, the story doesnt NEED defenders. If you dont enjoy it , fine, but why are you literally hellbent on telling others its so bad. Others enjoy what you dont...or is it, as a seagull once showed me , "you delight in clipping the wings of others because YOU cant fly?"

Telling me "you are totally wrong" yet what is YOUR experience with other games, other MMO's..who are YOU to tell me what others did or did not say to me?

Were you there? No. I am asking..why?

What the hell is your motive here? WHAT is it you are trying to achieve?

Still waiting to hear..how much of it have you actually done? or did you skip it all?

For reference: Ive done it all, all raids, MSQ, dungeons. Several times, pre and post ARR changes. Have you? ( Edit,sorry, cancel that, no I havent done DSR or Bozja )

Quote:

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They HAVE TO make it soloable because eventually you would not be able to progress the game without paying for skips. Its already pretty much impossible to do some of the side content cause noone does it anymore. This will eventually happen to MSQ multiplayer content too. "Quit or pay for a skip" would be a PR disaster

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Actually, no, Yoshi commented that a lot of players liked the FF solo player experience, and he is making changes to cater to that aspect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

It's also not against TOS to trade services for gold, just like it's not against TOS to buy an Ultimate clear with Gil. So yes, it is indeed supported.

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it falls under content selling which is against tos. ive seen actual clears for gil pf's taken down and the person banned. why you think pf is so clean of them now. do they still exist, yes of course but they aren't advertised anymore. instead i see a new trend of people buying chests and stuff from savages.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

They HAVE TO make it soloable because eventually you would not be able to progress the game without paying for skips. Its already pretty much impossible to do some of the side content cause noone does it anymore. This will eventually happen to MSQ multiplayer content too. "Quit or pay for a skip" would be a PR disaster

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not sure what data center you on but here on aether theres people in all levels of content. the issue we run into is the time of day. some times of day are super quiet so you have to take to pf just to grab a party for the content you want cleared. which honestly, people fill the roles pretty quick.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

it falls under content selling which is against tos. ive seen actual clears for gil pf's taken down and the person banned. why you think pf is so clean of them now. do they still exist, yes of course but they aren't advertised anymore. instead i see a new trend of people buying chests and stuff from savages.

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In other words, nothing changed other than how they advertise it in PF, correct?

No one in any other online game cares about story my left foot. There was so much outcry when they killed off Cayde-6 in Destiny 2. Even if he did die in a badass way. There were people asking why they couldn't have killed off Zavala as he was seen by the community as boring and at the time being a complete jerk. And I doubt many would say Destiny is a game where many play it for the story that's mostly slapped into the codex.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SannaR

No one in any other online game cares about story my left foot. There was so much outcry when they killed off Cayde-6 in Destiny 2. Even if he did die in a badass way. There were people asking why they couldn't have killed off Zavala as he was seen by the community as boring and at the time being a complete jerk. And I doubt many would say Destiny is a game where many play it for the story that's mostly slapped into the codex.

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Also if people didn’t care about wow story then why would there be outside the game material like books and comics etc. if they had diminishing returns they wouldn’t invest in it. Also that goes into Wotlk people loved it because it brought in a character they loved in their story and lore and it gave that a conclusion. Heck I remember having to watch a 35 min sort of lore video to understand the premise of Arthus and why he was a big deal.

These forums are an echo chamber of negativity and sadly with no mod intervention they’ve began to ferment and secrete into all aspects of discussion. I also don’t believe for instance the store which promotes skips actually sells that many. I think they have falsely created that narrative to get more people to contemplate looking at them with alts or people who don’t like story. I mean it’s pure speculation on my part and there is no statistics for it but it would make sense the company who is happy to make more money would advertise their big pieces as hotly bought.

They can make this game more alt friendly without needing story skip but they won’t. Money comes first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

Also if people didn’t care about wow story then why would there be outside the game material like books and comics etc. if they had diminishing returns they wouldn’t invest in it. Also that goes into Wotlk people loved it because it brought in a character they loved in their story and lore and it gave that a conclusion. Heck I remember having to watch a 35 min sort of lore video to understand the premise of Arthus and why he was a big deal.

These forums are an echo chamber of negativity and sadly with no mod intervention they’ve began to ferment and secrete into all aspects of discussion. I also don’t believe for instance the store which promotes skips actually sells that many. I think they have falsely created that narrative to get more people to contemplate looking at them with alts or people who don’t like story. I mean it’s pure speculation on my part and there is no statistics for it but it would make sense the company who is happy to make more money would advertise their big pieces as hotly bought.

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Yeah and I love the defense of Zenimax. If ESO's story was linear as XIV you can bet your life they'd sell a skip. They can be fairly greedy. I haven't played ESO, but I've seen the stuff they put into their other cash shops. Now I wouldn't say it's Nexxon levels, but it's up there.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Yeah and I love the defense of Zenimax. If ESO's story was linear as XIV you can bet your life they'd sell a skip. They can be fairly greedy. I haven't played ESO, but I've seen the stuff they put into their other cash shops. Now I wouldn't say it's Nexxon levels, but it's up there.

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"I didnt play game x, but i know game x bad. Final Fantasy perfect!" lol

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

Also if people didn’t care about wow story then why would there be outside the game material like books and comics etc. if they had diminishing returns they wouldn’t invest in it. Also that goes into Wotlk people loved it because it brought in a character they loved in their story and lore and it gave that a conclusion. Heck I remember having to watch a 35 min sort of lore video to understand the premise of Arthus and why he was a big deal.

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As you said, the books brought lore. The stories were always neglectable. Which is why when WOTLK was current everyone (warning hyperbole before you want to comment "BuT I KNoW PeOplE ThaT LikEd It") was making fun of the story and how Arthas is potrayed.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

These forums are an echo chamber of negativity and sadly with no mod intervention they’ve began to ferment and secrete into all aspects of discussion..

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If you want a positive circlejerk where every slight form of negativity towards the game is removed, may i advise you to join the FFXIV subreddit?

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

"I didnt play game x, but i know game x bad. Final Fantasy perfect!" lol

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A lot of communities is this way though. Just look at the wow community that still thinks FF is "just a weeb game lol" until some bigger names on Twitch moved over, then suddenly it was cool.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

If you want a positive circlejerk where every slight form of negativity towards the game is removed, may i advise you to join the FFXIV subreddit?

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It's obvious you and I don't see eye to eye on some subjects but two wrongs don't make a right. Both platforms should be able to have legitimate discussions but in both places, if you have constructive discussions (wherever it's deemed positive or negative towards the game) it seems to end in name-calling or non-constructive discussion points.

Discuss in good faith = you're coping, or white knighting for SE/defending X thing

Meanwhile, if you say something negative about the game on Reddit = -129235235 comment points or whatever it's called, it's rarely a post/comment gets removed unless it breaks some rules though.

I suppose that's one of the reasons, ffxivdiscussion was formed but last I checked it spun out of control too.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

"I didnt play game x, but i know game x bad. Final Fantasy perfect!" lol

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I never said ESO is or was bad. I said Zenimax is trash due to playing other Bethesda games and seeing how greedy they are in those other cash shops. That they definitely would sell you a story skip if the story was more linear. As that was what is being used as a reason why people buy skips for XIV. In that unlike its predecessor of XI. It doesn't allow you the freedom to enjoy the various stories in whatever order you want to. Unless you're doing Rhapsody of Vana'deil. Where it'll make you go through all the other stories. Since there's rarely a time the game makes you go do a story line. There is or was the gear up grade npc that wouldn't allow you to upgrade unless you did complete the one story line they're tied to. They could have changed that since I last played, but I kind of doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Meanwhile, if you say something negative about the game on Reddit = -129235235 comment points or whatever it's called, it's rarely a post/comment gets removed unless it breaks some rules though.

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I've only recently gotten around to signing up for Reddit – not just for FFXIV, but an assortment of things – and I feel like it really suffers for downvotes not differentiating between "I disagree" and "this is a badly informed post that should be hidden from view". If I say a thing and it gets no replies but gets downvotes, I don't even learn what I've said wrong or whether I've given incorrect information.

This isn't an issue for the bulk of my conversations there, which usually neutral or slightly upvoted, but on the occasion where it does come up as an issue it's very frustrating.

But I'm inclined to blame that on social media as a whole and what it's done to people's communication skills.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

They can make this game more alt friendly without needing story skip but they won’t. Money comes first.

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THIS RIGHT HERE....is the root of this whole thread. people with alts wanting a easy way to get to current content without A) having to actually play the content and B) without having to pay for a skip.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Yeah because so many people have alts in this game lmao

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So are you saying you know for a fact there arnt many people that have Alts?
Even though there are people here who have alts?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

werent you the one saying that it was fine to gear up all jobs on one character to BiS and that they didnt need alts ?

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Yes you can, and its fine to Gear all Classes on 1 character. Because of this, there is no reason to have Alts.
But No, I didnt say anything about BiS. I said there is nothing stopping you from Gearing your Job.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Now all of a sudden alts are being made for that and for raiding ?

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You have pretty bad reading skills it seems.
Im saying people make Alts, thats part of why Skips are popular on the Market. That and people who just want to Raid and dont care about the story.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

So are you saying you know for a fact there arnt many people that have Alts?
Even though there are people here who have alts?



Yes you can, and its fine to Gear all Classes on 1 character. Because of this, there is no reason to have Alts.
But No, I didnt say anything about BiS. I said there is nothing stopping you from Gearing your Job.



You have pretty bad reading skills it seems.
Im saying people make Alts, thats part of why Skips are popular on the Market. That and people who just want to Raid and dont care about the story.

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100% agree with this. you literally can't tell anymore who is legit new and who isn't because a large portion of the playerbase has alts.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

But I'm inclined to blame that on social media as a whole and what it's done to people's communication skills.

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I feel old for saying that it was better pre-social media era. In many areas. Communication, dating to name a few.

The story is perfect as it is. If you can't sit through the beautifully crafted cutscenes and dialogue presented by the writers at Square Enix then you are not worthy of playing our game. You should not even feel any urges to skip through it. You should be naturally drawn into it and if you are not then you do not fit in here within our community. Cutscene skippers are terrible people.

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Originally Posted by PetThisMiqo

The story is perfect as it is. If you can't sit through the beautifully crafted cutscenes and dialogue presented by the writers at Square Enix then you are not worthy of playing our game. You should not even feel any urges to skip through it. You should be naturally drawn into it and if you are not then you do not fit in here within our community. Cutscene skippers are terrible people.

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