People who can't do AOE rotations in 70+ Content

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Originally Posted by Aron73

So the bottom line is some times it is good to AOE, and sometimes it is not, even though you have 20+ enemies around you.

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You could not be more wrong

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Originally Posted by Aron73

Then I guess we have a different view of things, but in the end, I got enough confirmation that I'm a good DPS and tank to believe I'm doing a good job my way, but it doesn't mean I will stop learning. But I'm sorry to say this, but I think your wrong

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What you think on the matter is irrelevant. I doubt you are doing as good as you believe you are

I was in a group for Expert Roulette the other day with a "non-AOE" DPS. It cost us all of 3 minutes. Barely the time worth a 300+ thread on the forum. Honestly, I see more time lost from random AFKs and disconnects than I do from parties with a non-AOE DPS. While it is inconvenient, the cost isn't much if the other 3 players do their job.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I was in a group for Expert Roulette the other day with a "non-AOE" DPS. It cost us all of 3 minutes. Barely the time worth a 300+ thread on the forum. Honestly, I see more time lost from random AFKs and disconnects than I do from parties with a non-AOE DPS. While it is inconvenient, the cost isn't much if the other 3 players do their job.

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The cost is that you allowed a bad to believe their play was acceptable, passing them off on to the next group that has to deal with them

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I was in a group for Expert Roulette the other day with a "non-AOE" DPS. It cost us all of 3 minutes. Barely the time worth a 300+ thread on the forum. Honestly, I see more time lost from random AFKs and disconnects than I do from parties with a non-AOE DPS. While it is inconvenient, the cost isn't much if the other 3 players do their job.

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3 minutes here, 3 minutes there, and now you've spent a whole hour more on things that could've been done 3 minutes faster each run if everyone were to use AOE.
Also, the slower things die, the more pressure it is on tank and healer.

It's not about how much time is wasted, it's about why time is wasted. If someone says something like 'hang on i'm getting an important phone call' I dont really mind.

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Originally Posted by Aron73

Then I guess we have a different view of things, but in the end, I got enough confirmation that I'm a good DPS and tank to believe I'm doing a good job my way, but it doesn't mean I will stop learning. But I'm sorry to say this, but I think your wrong

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I don't think you realise the contradiction in your statement here. On the one hand, you say you want to continue learning, but on the other, you dismiss a learning opportunity because 'I'm doing a good job in my way'. So, which is it?

It isn't even the case that AoE rotations are weak, they are actually really strong, so it seems even more confusing when people don't want to use them.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Then why don't you use PF? If you're going to be playing like garbage because it's "you right," then it's also the other players right to kick you for lethargic play.

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That is not the reality. lol It's just this echo chamber here. DF is a grab bag of people you use to get fast access to content. People here can argue and throw their little temper tantrum about others being disrespectful and wasting minutes of their time, but there is no way SE will implement a driver's license or some such nonsense for normal content. Most things that are being discussed here are downright laughable, honestly. The actual XIV community, of which this forum is the tiniest subsection, does not think that way.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Please stick to Squadrons, Duty Support, and Trust.

This is aimed at people who like to do single target rotations when people wall to wall for them. You're legitimately a detriment to the party.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

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Is the forums the place for you to make demands of other players. If it bothers you so much have you tried asking the person in the party to use them? After all your making the choice to do wall to wall pulls it not mandatory. Personally as long as it looks like other players are trying thats all i care about in roulettes. Its more frustrating to see people think that the trusts are for any player that dont meet their standard of play. When you play with random people you shouldnt have any expectation other then the trying.

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

Is the forums the place for you to make demands of other players. If it bothers you so much have you tried asking the person in the party to use them? After all your making the choice to do wall to wall pulls it not mandatory. Personally as long as it looks like other players are trying thats all i care about in roulettes. Its more frustrating to see people think that the trusts are for any player that dont meet their standard of play. When you play with random people you shouldnt have any expectation other then the trying.

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Not to sound super jaded but 9 times out of 10 if somebody isn't using any aoe in a 70+ dungeon, they absolutely are not trying

Like and I genuinely don't understand why not like half the time aoe rotations literally require less effort than a single target rotation and imo are way more fun anyway, like, you get to flail around and hit 50 things at once?? Different ideas of fun and all but man I just don't get it

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I was in a group for Expert Roulette the other day with a "non-AOE" DPS. It cost us all of 3 minutes. Barely the time worth a 300+ thread on the forum. Honestly, I see more time lost from random AFKs and disconnects than I do from parties with a non-AOE DPS. While it is inconvenient, the cost isn't much if the other 3 players do their job.

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Probably because your healer was making up for whoever was lacking.

Combo of pure healer + 2 non aoe dps? That's going to be a 35m+ run. Running a Trust would be faster.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Probably because your healer was making up for whoever was lacking.

Combo of pure healer + 2 non aoe dps? That's going to be a 35m+ run. Running a Trust would be faster.

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Debatable on the faster trusts thing. I would rather pull my hair out than run with trusts because even when I pull more packs over to Thanc or Graha, it's rolling a dice whether or not they'll just die after a few seconds because Urianger/Alphinaud decided to full stop in a poor spot and got smashed.

Meanwhile I can just queue for DF and 9/10 not have the healer or tank die while handling bigger packs/suffer to poor AI choices.

If it was set up that the DPS in trusts were actually doing their expected damage (single targets for days while I'm spamming my AoEs) + the AI was a bit smarter then trusts would probably be a lot more leaned upon than they are now.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

How they want to play is irrelevant if they are being a burden

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He is referring to tanks asking everyone to focus on the boss and ignore adds. This is sometimes possible and will clear a fight faster.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I was in a group for Expert Roulette the other day with a "non-AOE" DPS. It cost us all of 3 minutes. Barely the time worth a 300+ thread on the forum. Honestly, I see more time lost from random AFKs and disconnects than I do from parties with a non-AOE DPS. While it is inconvenient, the cost isn't much if the other 3 players do their job.

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Eh... I mostly agree. I'm always a bit baffled and amused at the Karen-level hysterics when this particular kind of thread pops up.

I am excited to see what happens in a post savage dungeon world, however. This might get hilarious.

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

Is the forums the place for you to make demands of other players. If it bothers you so much have you tried asking the person in the party to use them? After all your making the choice to do wall to wall pulls it not mandatory. Personally as long as it looks like other players are trying thats all i care about in roulettes. Its more frustrating to see people think that the trusts are for any player that dont meet their standard of play. When you play with random people you shouldnt have any expectation other then the trying.

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If people were actually trying they would be properly playing

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I'd rather carry the worst player in the game through content as long as they're a decent human being over getting stuck in a group with a jerk regardless of how good a player they are.

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Players who press more buttons to do less damage because they didn't read tooltips are jerks though.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

If you queue using duty finder you should have zero expectations. Put your own group together so those of your ilk can stay together. I am sure the people in duty finder won't miss you.

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In short you sound like one of these that try and fake themself through roulettes and the likes... there is expectations and if am not doing even basic AOE's you can be reported severe for obstruction as well.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

3 minutes here, 3 minutes there, and now you've spent a whole hour more on things that could've been done 3 minutes faster each run if everyone were to use AOE.
Also, the slower things die, the more pressure it is on tank and healer.

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You are aware this entire game is one big timesink. I'm sure you've wasted hours and hours of time on content that in the end was obsolete afterwards. I'm not saying it is "ok" to be a non-AOE DPS. Maybe in some content it happens more often than others. I've played this game since 2013 and my experience is that usually a run taking "too long" is more a factor of AFKs, disconnects, etc etc rather than bad DPS. Others may have a different experience or it could just be they tend to remember the "bad DPS" more than the "AFK" experiences and simply focus on that to rant and rave about it.

"3 minutes here and there" is a drop in the bucket vs the hours we voluntarily waste in this game.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

If people were actually trying they would be properly playing

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Let's not count those chickens before they've hatched, dude.

As an elite savage raider, I use my AOE rotation on single-target pulls.

Single target Doton let's go! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Players who press more buttons to do less damage because they didn't read tooltips are jerks though.

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Some are.

Some aren't.

Some have little experience with MMOs, having played other types games that work differently and they assume the rules would be the same here.

Not everyone is able to figure things out from tooltips, or reading a guide. It's not like critical thinking is high on the list of things getting taught in public schools when teacher bonuses are dependent on how well students memorize specific answers to specific test questions.

Those not good at math aren't going to think about applying math to figure out what gives better damage to use when attacking 4 targets: a single target ability that hits with a potency of 450 or an AOE ability that hits all surrounding targets within 7y with a potency of 150 (not to mention those mobs maybe spread out depending on the tank and the hitboxes so they're not all within 7y)..

Some of the tool tips are very obscure.

Additional effect: grants XYZ and no explanation of what XYZ is. It's not an ability name. It's not a trait name. Players shouldn't have to dive through every single tooltip on every single ability to find that an action they've been using since level 7 now has additional text that says "When under the effect of XYZ, potency is increased to 250"

Why get on someone's case over a dungeon that's easy? If you want to set those standards for EX or Savage, I'm 100% with you. Players stepping into that content should know what they're doing. Players just going through normal dungeons and trials for MSQ? Not worth it. It's usually not hard to tell when someone is honestly trying to contribute and when they're trolling.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

"3 minutes here and there" is a drop in the bucket vs the hours we voluntarily waste in this game.

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Exactly. Players waste a lot more time standing around an Aetheryte yet they don't complain about that time lost.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Let's not count those chickens before they've hatched, dude.

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Let's not act like properly playing isn't accessible to people. If you can start up the game you can properly play. That's just how it is

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's not like critical thinking is high on the list of things getting taught in public schools when teacher bonuses are dependent on how well students memorize specific answers to specific test questions.

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That's not every school on the planet. But anyway, maths is what teaches you critical thinking skills at school. That is the purpose of maths.

I just want to reiterate a couple of things;

* This is for 70+ content. Shadowbringers and beyond or maxing out on Stormblood.
* People act like this doesn't happen, is impossible, are arguing in bad faith, idk, what have you, but if pulls go on long enough due to people choosing to single target, your tank and healer will run out of CDs and will die. Ask me how I know.

With that fantastic sound effects, I blast everything with shotgun while I am allowed. Not a good enough reason but still.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's usually not hard to tell when someone is honestly trying to contribute and when they're trolling.

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This I agree with. The person who is trying will reply "what is an AoE?" followed by "OK, I will use that skill from now on." Any other kind of reply from them is trolling and I'm not helping them finish a run at that point. If they can't count they should admit they don't know how to play any job correctly and should do as they are told. It's rare on EU servers to find a person who is too stupid to multiply by 4 when calculators exist but maybe it's different in NA.