That Which He Does Not Play

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

You guys were the first to all come in his thread and attack him, some even going as low as saying that he didnt have x mount x achievement or whatever and that his opinion didnt matter, some even saying he was an alt so he has no opinion, and that the people agreeing with him are all alts with each other.

What do you expect exactly ? If people were a tiny bit mature, it wouldnt be this way.

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Attacking him...by calling the thread bait? Is that REALLY an attack? You know what I'd call an attack? You lying on me and others in this very thread because you cant handle others not sharing the same hate for this that you do. You've easily been the most antagonistic person in this thread.

God forbid people wonder if the OP has actually done some content seeing as they're on an alt here. I wouldn't be pissed if someone questioned my credentials based on my character here as it has nothing above 90. I wouldn't feel attacked if folks did that cause it's fair. I never said folks who agree with him are alts, I pointed out that some people always hop in to defend every take of his (just as yall point out some hop in to refute every point of his).

You talking about maturity with your post history is the biggest joke here tbh.
And another funny part? You want to be taken seriously...yet you continue to pay monthly for a product you claim is NOTHING but the bare minimum with crap devs. Who's the real fool here?

I am forced to question why there's so much backlash over mere criticism. So what if someone complains about the game a lot? Voicing criticism is not the same thing as disliking a product. There's nothing wrong with pointing out flaws, whether real or perceived, in a product you care about. It's fine to disagree with someone's criticisms, but trying to tell them their opinion is objectively wrong is pretty stupid.

People don't make forum posts looking to be "proven wrong" anyway. People that are proven wrong normally won't admit they're wrong no matter what is said to them, and this goes for a large number of posters on here whether they realize it or not.

It seems to me quite a few posters believe this thread to be a case of someone that wouldn't accept being wrong regardless of circumstances. If this is the case -- or if this is a bait thread -- then I've but one question: why bother?

Friendly reminder that Yoshida is a suit and you should treat him as such.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Oh snap!
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zQQAA...r0/s-l1600.jpg

(Sorry, couldn’t help it…)

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This is brilliant. Truly a modern day art masterpiece.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Friendly reminder that Yoshida is a suit and you should treat him as such.

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First of all he is a human like his workers are, so pay all of them respect :)

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Oh hey look, Aveyond switched ALts XD

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I can do that too! Whatever your forum avatar is still doesn't mean anything.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I am forced to question why there's so much backlash over mere criticism. So what if someone complains about the game a lot? Voicing criticism is not the same thing as disliking a product. There's nothing wrong with pointing out flaws, whether real or perceived, in a product you care about. It's fine to disagree with someone's criticisms, but trying to tell them their opinion is objectively wrong is pretty stupid.

People don't make forum posts looking to be "proven wrong" anyway. People that are proven wrong normally won't admit they're wrong no matter what is said to them, and this goes for a large number of posters on here whether they realize it or not.

It seems to me quite a few posters believe this thread to be a case of someone that wouldn't accept being wrong regardless of circumstances. If this is the case -- or if this is a bait thread -- then I've but one question: why bother?

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The backlash isn't directed at criticism (most of it anyways). It's directed at certain types n topics of criticism. If I was to make a thread about my enjoyment of the current state of healing I'd be insulted and ragged on by many of ths threads supporters.
It's a 2 way issue.

Pointing out what you think are flaws is fine. But people have the right to counter those points all the same. It's not the case in every instances but there ARE times where you can tell someone their opinion is objectively wrong. Like saying Yoshi only cares about content effecting him. That's is an objectively false opinion to have. Just how it is sometimes

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I am forced to question why there's so much backlash over mere criticism. So what if someone complains about the game a lot? Voicing criticism is not the same thing as disliking a product. There's nothing wrong with pointing out flaws, whether real or perceived, in a product you care about. It's fine to disagree with someone's criticisms, but trying to tell them their opinion is objectively wrong is pretty stupid.

People don't make forum posts looking to be "proven wrong" anyway. People that are proven wrong normally won't admit they're wrong no matter what is said to them, and this goes for a large number of posters on here whether they realize it or not.

It seems to me quite a few posters believe this thread to be a case of someone that wouldn't accept being wrong regardless of circumstances. If this is the case -- or if this is a bait thread -- then I've but one question: why bother?

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Usually the problem is that when somebody starts to believe in the smell of their own farts, it starts to get very annoying and that's been the case with aveyond who has a strong record for terrible takes.

Just like how he believes that he shouldnt be silenced for spewing out his opinions so do people also shouldn't be silenced for challenging them

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...917.1654817530

Happened in the other thread too, where I said that certain people were using a double standard. You inserted yourself in, I told you clearly that I wasn't talking about you (multiple times might I add), and you still insisted that you were being lumped into a us vs. them situation. So sorry, I don't believe that elsewhere you are genuinely getting lumped into groups you don't belong in/labeled by other posters. I can't believe you because you do it to yourself so much.

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That picture doesnt really make sense....again, you make it sound like you're the only one, when there are multiple people.
I didnt lump myself in with the crowd and then get mad at you.

Also....know what...Can you provide a quote of the interaction? Because now Im getting the idea that maybe things are being misunderstood.
Maybe one or both of us arnt being as clear as possible, or intentions are just not understood.

I'm gonna go on a tangent and repeat a major criticism I do have with the game:

The minions earned from the level 87, 89, and 90 dungeons in their last treasure coffers are still "Market Prohibited". The patch is currently two patches ahead of the main story. There is no point in making them "Market Prohibited" anymore. What is happening now with certain minions and orchestrion rolls as mentioned can set a rather bad precedent for future expansions, especially with the extremely low drop rates. And the minion from the "Stigma Dreamscape" dungeon is just as spoiler worthy as the three minions.

Time after time, someone either tried to play devil's advocate against what I said the and/or this point became ignored altogether because people would not even care unless it affected them directly. Would I be upset? Absolutely. Would I make a big fuss about it? No.

It is what it is and the only things I can do to get my points across are to get them as concise, detailed, and reasonable as I can.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

In fairness, that one I blame them for being too secretive about Meteion. They overhyped the logo and the Amano artwork of Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Meaning expectations were too high for those two to be relegated to done-and-done deals and pave the way for the Endsinger.

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I wonder if they already had the art done before they decided to condense the originally-planned Garlean expansion together with another to make Endwalker, then didn't have time and/or budget to commission new art (or were trying not to spoil the "twist" of Meteion) and they just had to roll with it as best they could. Would fit with my general impression of Endwalker being kinda rushed.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

The backlash isn't directed at criticism. It's directed at certain types n topics of criticism. If I was to make a thread about my enjoyment of the current state of healing I'd be insulted and ragged on by many of ths threads supporters.
It's a 2 way issue.

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Highly doubt you'd be lambasted by the "supporters" of this thread and more so the masterclass healers that are annoyed at healer gameplay in the Healer Role subforum that almost never come to General Discussion. You make a thread about liking the current state of healing in General Discussion and you will hardly see much of anyone in this thread here posting in it.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

At this point people like to complain. I find it immature. If I don't like something I just don't do the thing. If I dislike a lot of things then I just play something else.

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Idk about you but I'd prefer to live in a world where everything isn't 100% positive all the time.

If people wanna complain about the sky being blue instead of yellow, let em. What does someone else's random opinion really do to your day?

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Idk about you but I'd prefer to live in a world where everything isn't 100% positive all the time.

If people wanna complain about the sky being blue instead of yellow, let em. What does it affect your life?

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Hmmm. Easy answer. If enough people complain about something in a game you feel is fine, it has a chance to change into something you don't like. That's how it effects you.

I loved Ast in SB but folks complained about it just being a balance fish bot among other things. Now the class isn't fun for me to play due to changes. I want Noct Sect back but thats forever dead now

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Hmmm. Easy answer. If enough people complain about something in a game you feel is fine, it has a chance to change into something you don't like. That's how it effects you

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That's a you problem.

If you love something, other people's opinions shouldn't change that love. Did you fall in love with something because other people told you to or did you find your own reasons?

Gotta learn to ignore peer pressure eventually/hold your own thoughts without being swayed by others that you don't even know lol.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Idk about you but I'd prefer to live in a world where everything isn't 100% positive all the time.

If people wanna complain about the sky being blue instead of yellow, let em. What does it affect your life?

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Oh no I agree. Toxic Positivity is a thing and it is VERY common here. It's quite weird really. However I just find it very annoying and almost babyish to constantly complain about something one could just...walk away from. Even more so when certain individuals seem to do nothing BUT complain.

I have my gripes about the game too. I don't care for Island Sanctuary, I think the Viera/Hrothgar issue is just a bad joke now with them outright refusing to fix it (Doesn't affect me since I'm a hyur but I understand their frustration ) and I LOVE PvP but PvP is just not something I like to do here because...well I don't like it.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

That picture doesnt really make sense....again, you make it sound like you're the only one, when there are multiple people.
I didnt lump myself in with the crowd and then get mad at you.

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I mean... the image is also a gross generalization. I did call the thread bait, for example, but only because the way the argument was presented felt "weak". And I did mention it before, it felt weak because it sounded like he was going for "The dev didn't play the content, see, see, see???". I didn't agree. Not at the start: I'm all up for discussing how the devs treat the game and whether it's been fair or with effort, but I've made the mistake before of nitpicking the devs for one mistake that could be explained away with some thought. Especially since a lot of people are that quick to jump into the devs' defence, often excusing bad habits while they're at it.

But then I understood what he was going for, in which case, yeah, I agreed. And I'll even add that the quote is inconsistent. Yoshida says 3 things:
1 - "There are a lot [of favorite parts about Island Sanctuary]"
2 - "I like being able to play without needing to hurry and having the freedom to play by myself"
3 - "I have yet to step foot in the island sanctuary on my personal account."
Which I took it in two ways.
1 - How can he say that he has a lot of favourites and loves playing without needing to hurry when he hasn't played through it?
2 - Not on his personal account, but he has played through it on the testing servers. Which isn't the same, since you can godmode and rush the process, bypassing the tedious aspects entirely.
And I am trying to come up with the benefit of the doubt to satisfy the aforementioned "I don't want to nitpick on the devs without giving it some thought", but everything I can come up with just doesn't get past #2. His wording is specifically that "he hasn't set foot in it on his personal account". Even if he's played through it, it's not the same as it being on your personal account, which is a reflection of your own interests and effort.

And given how what Yoshida doesn't play just so happens to be the parts that are in need of attention... I'm not saying it's true, but it is sus. And the man hasn't done much to convince me of otherwise. A post defending buffing PvP BLM, even if they were justified, just sounded weird.

Even when I disagreed with Aveyond, I really didn't care if he was right or not. Sometimes I read his stuff and I agree, sometimes I disagree. Sometimes he says things I'm like "Yes, 100%" but sometimes he says something that I'm like "Well, there isn't really proof of that, is there?". And yeah, he's infamous for making posts about disliking things, but I've seen him post about stuff he does like and respect about the game, rare as they may be. So even if he's known for being a contrarian, I can still look at what he says and think for myself whether I agree or not, even if I'm mistaken.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Highly doubt you'd be lambasted by the "supporters" of this thread and more so the masterclass healers that are annoyed at healer gameplay in the Healer Role subforum that almost never come to General Discussion. You make a thread about liking the current state of healing in General Discussion and you will hardly see much of anyone in this thread here posting in it.

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:P I don't main a healer, even if I like Astrologian. It's not what I play at higher levels, and as I mentioned, I'm not a smart person. I don't know how healer optimization looks like. My input would just be weak in comparison. I can give my support for healers, but I'd hardly know what to say if anyone asks how the gameplay should be. Because I might have trash ideas that just aren't viable for high-end play.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Oh no I agree. Toxic Positivity is a thing and it is VERY common here. It's quite weird really. However I just find it very annoying and almost babyish to constantly complain about something one could just...walk away from. Even more so when certain individuals seem to do nothing BUT complain.

I have my gripes about the game too. I don't care for Island Sanctuary, I think the Viera/Hrothgar issue is just a bad joke now with them outright refusing to fix it (Doesn't affect me since I'm a hyur but I understand their frustration ) and I LOVE PvP but PvP is just not something I like to do here because...well I don't like it.

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As it's been repeated multiple times: The people who voice complaints & criticisms are the ones that still care enough to try to make a change. You'd rather people just give up on a game they enjoy just because they take issue with one part of it/stay silent instead of creating an outlet for others to voice similar problems in the hope of making the devs aware that something is wrong?

Wha?

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

That's a you problem.

If you love something, other people's opinions shouldn't change that love. Did you fall in love with something because other people told you to or did you find your own reasons?

Gotta learn to ignore peer pressure eventually/hold your own thoughts without being swayed by others that you don't even know lol.

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Ok so by that logic folks who hate how healers have been gutted shouldn't complain cause that's a "them" issue.

You see how off that sounds? I'd like to think you just didn't read that correctly

At this point, I'm honestly surprised that this thread has not yet been heavily moderated and/or closed after all the posts going around in this thread.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

At this point, I'm honestly surprised that this thread has not yet been heavily moderated and/or closed after all the posts going around in this thread.

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Moderators on this forum are a myth, like elves or gremlins or sober Irishmen.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Ok so by that logic folks who hate how healers have been gutted shouldn't complain cause that's a "them" issue.

You see how off that sounds? I'd like to think you just didn't read that correctly

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I think my point still stands. If you think healers are fine then continue thinking they're fine. That's your right and you're allowed to enjoy it. The same goes for the people who do not like it. Their opinions, however, do not need to affect yours unless you personally choose to. Which in that case...is a YOU problem for allowing your own opinions to be invalidated by randoms instead of sticking to your own experience. You can easily just keep enjoying healer the exact same way you are now in one corner and let them continue voicing their concerns in the other corner. One does not need to affect the other.

I don't think you read mine correctly tbh lol.

Ah I see the OP changed to a Highlander. Nice

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Moderators on this forum are a myth, like elves or gremlins or sober Irishmen.

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Heck, I wished some of my forum threads were as active as this one so my criticism and/or concerns for certain qualities of life don't get outspoken in absolute Dynamis-filled silence.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I think my point still stands. If you think healers are fine then continue thinking they're fine. That's your right and you're allowed to enjoy it. The same goes for the people who do not like it. Their opinions, however, do not need to affect yours unless you personally choose to, which in that case...is a YOU problem for allowing your own opinions to be invalidated by randoms. You can easily just keep enjoying healer the exact same way you are now and let them continue voicing their concerns. One does not need to affect the other.

I don't think you read mine correctly tbh lol.

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I think you misunderstand their original point. In that if something got changed that they liked or enjoyed by the demands of those who didn't they then will now become those who don't like whatever got changed. Like there are some who didn't mind or sort of liked how Bard was back in HW. Or how many liked how SMN played pre EW. There's people who enjoyed SB Ast yet they no longer are able to enjoy these things.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

At this point, I'm honestly surprised that this thread has not yet been heavily moderated and/or closed after all the posts going around in this thread.

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the mods have forsaken us a long time ago. This is now the thunder dome.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

As it's been repeated multiple times: The people who voice complaints & criticisms are the ones that still care enough to try to make a change. You'd rather people just give up on a game they enjoy just because they take issue with one part of it/stay silent instead of creating an outlet for others to voice similar problems in the hope of making the devs aware that something is wrong?

Wha?

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That's the thing. Nothing bugs me THAT much. I just don't do those things. Maybe I'm just way more tolerant of things. I just...adapt. They change it? Ok...do I like it? Yes? Great. Do I dislike it? Yes? Do I dislike it enough to stop doing it? No? Ok carry on. Do I dislike it enough to stop or quit? Yes? Ok I'll quit.

Money speaks more than words when it comes to business. People are VERY outspoken about EA...but it's the money that talks. The money is nothing but praise and they are lavishing in that praise.

However we have difference views and I understand and respect yours.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I think you misunderstand their original point. In that if something got changed that they liked or enjoyed by the demands of those who didn't they then will now become those who don't like whatever got changed. Like there are some who didn't mind or sort of liked how Bard was back in HW. Or how many liked how SMN played pre EW. There's people who enjoyed SB Ast yet they no longer are able to enjoy these things.

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I mean, if something they liked got changed into something they didn't then they'd have the same right to voice their concerns/criticisms in the same manner as those who had complaints in the first place (which usually tends to happen when things change). As I said from the start, one side has the same right as the other.

My ultimate point was that, on an individual level, their opinion shouldn't be swayed by another unless they actually agree with it. But, to put it bluntly, life also isn't fair sometimes and one side won't always get what they want...literally just like people who have been voicing concerns about healers for x amount of years now. That doesn't mean they should just not talk about it anymore though because others want things to stay the same and not change. Change is just a part of life.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

That's the thing. Nothing bugs me THAT much. I just don't do those things. Maybe I'm just way more tolerant of things. I just...adapt. They change it? Ok...do I like it? Yes? Great. Do I dislike it? Yes? Do I dislike it enough to stop doing it? No? Ok carry on. Do I dislike it enough to stop or quit? Yes? Ok I'll quit.

Money speaks more than words when it comes to business. People are VERY outspoken about EA...but it's the money that talks. The money is nothing but praise and they are lavishing in that praise.

However we have difference views and I understand and respect yours.

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I get yours too and got no bad vibes with you. I usually just take the stance of let people do what they want unless it involves violence towards another person or themselves. Makes life easier.

Doesn't mean I don't have a big mouth though at the same time and cant be a bit opinionated myself sometimes. XD

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

If I was to make a thread about my enjoyment of the current state of healing I'd be insulted and ragged on by many of ths threads supporters.

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...08/Lurking.gif

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I get yours too and got no bad vibes with you. I usually just take the stance of let people do what they want unless it involves violence towards another person or themselves. Makes life easier.

Doesn't mean I don't have a big mouth though at the same time and cant be a bit opinionated myself sometimes. XD

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Fair enough. More than fair enough. I'm glad we could both see eye to eye with each other. Too many like to go into battle about such things.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

If I was to make a thread about my enjoyment of the current state of healing I'd be insulted and ragged on by many of ths threads supporters.
It's a 2 way issue.

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I doubt that very much.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I mean, if something they liked got changed into something they didn't then they'd have the same right to voice their concerns/criticisms in the same manner as those who had complaints in the first place (which usually tends to happen when things change). As I said from the start, one side has the same right as the other.

My ultimate point was that, on an individual level, their opinion shouldn't be swayed by another unless they actually agree with it. But, to put it bluntly, life also isn't fair sometimes and one side won't always get what they want...literally just like people who have been voicing concerns about healers for x amount of years now. That doesn't mean they should just not talk about it anymore though because others want things to stay the same and not change. Change is just a part of life.

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Thing is you've moved goalposts with your original point

"If people wanna complain about the sky being blue instead of yellow, let em. What does someone else's random opinion really do to your day?"

I provided an in game example of how it effects people per your question. Changes being made leading to destain was then deemed a "you problem". Maybe the whole swaying bit is what you were going for at the start but thats not how it was presented imo. Not the biggest issue ofc


Also Theo you say that but I expressed that I don't feel like I'm just tapping one button when I'm healing as a Sage as I do many different things. Expressed that healing is indeed fun n I was ragged on n told I had crap standards. Can't remember the thread that was though.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Fair enough. More than fair enough. I'm glad we could both see eye to eye with each other. Too many like to go into battle about such things.

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Oh, but you're cool with going to battle when it comes to female Au Ra, huh?
(I kid, I kid.)

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Originally Posted by ronibosch

Oh, but you're cool with going to battle when it comes to female Au Ra, huh?
(I kid, I kid.)

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oh absolutely. The battle going so hard that people would feel the shockwaves of our fury.

And then the hate fornication happens and people feel the force of our hate/love.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I doubt that very much.

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not sure where you have been but positive threads about liking an aspect of the game, or even the game itself are generally "shouted" down as the poster being a shill or what have you. that has been proven time and time again. so not sure why you express doubt

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Originally Posted by Renalt

oh absolutely. The battle going so hard that people would feel the shockwaves of our fury.

And then the hate fornication happens and people feel the force of our hate/love.

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O-oh my...

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

not sure where you have been but positive threads about liking an aspect of the game, or even the game itself are generally "shouted" down as the poster being a shill or what have you. that has been proven time and time again. so not sure why you express doubt

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"I hate haters" threads are not positive.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

If I was to make a thread about my enjoyment of the current state of healing I'd be insulted and ragged on by many of this threads supporters.
It's a 2 way issue.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I doubt that very much.

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I agree with Theodric. I probably wouldn't be in such a thread as I don't play healer that much, but as long as the points made were good, I'd be in support of a thread like that. I'm not against criticism of the game, even if I disagree with the premise. For example, I don't 100% agree with Aveyond's OP here but I still support his ability to be critical of the game/devs, and I'm against the people who blindly hate him for it. I sincerely doubt that Ikara would be getting 'ragged' by the supporters of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

not sure where you have been but positive threads about liking an aspect of the game, or even the game itself are generally "shouted" down as the poster being a shill or what have you. that has been proven time and time again. so not sure why you express doubt

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Are we talking about actual positive threads or threads where the OP spends half of the post talking about how terrible people who are 'too negative' are?

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

"I hate haters" threads are not positive.

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It's positive to them because it's directed at the 'right people'.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I doubt that very much.

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I don't doubt that in the least. Just look when IS came out. The usual crew making multiple threads about everything they found "wrong" with it. One thread was made by someone who enjoyed it talking about what they liked. And within the first few comments were several of the echo chamber cabal either straight-up attacking the OP or making passive-aggressive remarks like "I loved how I was able to no-life it for a day and now there's nothing to do." If anyone made a thread here talking about how they enjoy something in FFXIV, they'd doubtless be attacked for it. Heck, it happens practically anytime someone makes a post about something they like in juxtaposition to a post about something someone doesn't like...