Gamerescape Interview: Summons, Chocobos, Train Tracks and Rocks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jocko

Please relay that we would like the jump animation to be tasteful and not look out of place with the game's aesthetics. And please keep jumping away from combat, especially if there are no plans to introduce regional servers to combat the inevitable ping issues.

---

I totally agree with this guy.

Quote:

---

I totally agree with this guy.

---

I agree with the first sentence only.

What's problematic with jumping in combat is if it's meant to dodge attacks directly. Lag would make that pretty hard. It would be fine to jump in combat if it was for strategic positioning such as moving to the top of a boulder, cliff, or stuff like that.

I don't want to repeat myself, but for example in an instanced battlefield, getting on top of something that would put you out of range for the boss, then have the boss waste a few seconds as it tried to destroy that piece of terrain. That would be a perfectly fine usage of jump in battles, without lag becoming a significant issue.

though you can never eliminate latency entirely, FFXIV's latency is higher than it really should be for a communication between North America and Japan. You should expect latencies of like 200-350ms, but in some cases the delay can be a full second or more (e.g. you can move well off a crack @ ifrit and still get hit by it-further than you can move in a quarter of a second). Hopefully the new server system will alleviate this and bring latencys down to where they should be, which should drastically reduce the possibility of having to lead your jump so much that it looks wrong.

Even so considering Yoshida doesn't want this to turn into an action game it shouldn't exist in combat (active mode) at all anyway, so latency worries should be the least of anyone's problem in regards to jump, unless it makes you miss jumping over a fence you thought you did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

As it is people are going to use ledge jumping as a method to kite-kill mobs with poor pathing AI. You know it's gonna happen.

---

"The target is too far below you"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

there ARE needs to restrict jumping every second.

---

Really? Like what? How exactly would it break the game? How would it annoy you sooooo much that simply looking away or going off to do something else wouldn't fix it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Not jumping every second is NOT being obnoxious (first point disproven) doesn't give most people who like jumping a reason to complain (second point disproven)

---

Restricting other people from jumping whenever/wherever -- effectively infringing on their gameplay, when such gameplay has absolutely no effect on yours -- just because you don't like the idea of possibly, maybe seeing someone jumping around constantly is what's truly obnoxious, and that's precisely what the text you quoted said.
What you responded with right there, however, doesn't even address that. o.O

"OMG. Somewhere in the game, someone is bunny hopping; I just know it! Like that guy that was over by the mail moogle sitting on his chocobo. He's probably jumping around right now and not stopping, and it irritates me so hard!" You yell at kids to get off your lawn too, don't you? :P lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

rather than just bounce all the time and probably avoid what's avoidable.

---

Again, who says that being able to jump in combat or jump being useful in combat automagically = completely avoiding damage? Did you not read the whole post you quoted from?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I honestly would prefer as much function and as few limitations as possible on jumping. However, I also don't want to see other player's exeperiences made less pleasant.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

but bunny hopping really isn't a good thing and it should be minimized if all possible.

---

So... you want to see as few limitations as possible on jumping and you also don't want to see other players' experiences made less pleasant, yet...you're advocating doing precisely that. You want to place restrictions (limitations) on jumping that will make experiences less pleasant for other players. o.O
Oh, wait, I get it... those other players don't share your same feelings on the issue, so that makes it alright to stomp all over theirs. I see now.


I'll ask again: objectively, how does unrestricted jumping and/or jumping in combat break the game? And don't worry about animation blending; they're professional designers, artists, and programmers... not high school students.

Here, I'll even help you out. Unrestricted jumping (within reason, like not being able to jump off a cliff into deep water a la the La Noscea Cliff Diving Team) doesn't. At all. It's no different than unrestricted emoting, shouting, or active/passive switching.

Jumping in combat could be disastrous in PvP if it reduces or negates damage taken from other players. It could make combat "more dynamic," sure, but it'd be absolute hell to balance the numbers with, so it most likely will not happen.
Jumping in combat, generally speaking, could be beneficial in that it facilitates things like being able to break line of sight (e.g., jumping into/behind a pile of rocks). This kind of freedom of movement is balanced though, because any type of movement would (should) break any sort of casting (BLMs rejoice, amirite? lol).
Jumping in PvE combat environments would be balanced, likewise, in that even if jumping reduces damage taken from certain mob abilities, you can't do anything else while you're jumping (as stated above), except maybe swing your sword or axe or waggle your wand. Being able to perform abilities and cast spells whilst jumping just wouldn't make sense. So, while Player X may be taking less damage in dungeon Y, he's doing absolutely nothing else to help the group... thus he either learns to not jump around like an idiot or he'll be replaced (and there's your check against bunny hopping 24/7 where it matters, and it's natural and player-driven instead of contrived).

Outside of PvP, the only thing that could possibly cause jumping to ruin the game is server-client latency, but I'm sure they're well aware of the concerns by now...

(Wow. I don't think I wrote enough... :o lol)

"but bunny hopping really isn't a good thing and it should be minimized if all possible." we agree on something alh~ lol

Ya, I REALLYYYY don't wanna see people just being able to jump all the time everywhere.

I love things like positionals, timed attacks, and moving out of hazards, and would support jumping only if it was useful for combat (or maybe if they added some platforming elements to dungeons). I'd rather see the game moved away from "The combat consists of nothing but standing there pressing a couple buttons and not needing to pay attention at all." than moved toward it.

i just have to go active -> passive all the time to annoy people. So what now? lets place a 20 seconds cooldown between active and passive modes?
i can /laugh all the time near you, so what? a limit on how many emotes i can use per minute?
i can run around you all the time making my armor and steps annoy you.
i can swap gear all the time near you to flip around you! lets limit that too.
Flare
Talking with friends in /say
etc.


So lets limit all the game for you people dont get annoyed by others players.

Deal with it.

You know I keep reading about people being concerned with latency issues on 2.0 and they use that assumption as an excuse to not have jump play any part in battle. As I mentioned earlier, a big part of the reasoning behind 2.0 is to fix the retarded latency issues this game currently faces. It's almost as If people expect latency issues come 2.0. In my opinion if latency issues still exist come 2.0 then 2.0 will have basically failed to fix one of the main issues in this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nox

You know I keep reading about people being concerned with latency issues on 2.0 and they use that assumption as an excuse to not have jump play any part in battle. As I mentioned earlier, a big part of the reasoning behind 2.0 is to fix the retarded latency issues this game currently faces. It's almost as If people expect latency issues come 2.0. In my opinion if latency issues still exist come 2.0 then 2.0 will have basically failed to fix one of the main issues in this game.

---

Yes, it's not good to assume the game will still be so broken. Okipuit did ask us if we would like it to be used in combat so perhaps that means SE feels they would be able to do so effectively with 2.0.

It wouldn't be good to assume it would be perfect either of course. :3

i think too many people will try 2.0 beta expecting a release... i cant wait until people start to post: "so many bugss!! unplayableee!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nabiri

Yes, it's not good to assume the game will still be so broken. Okipuit did ask us if we would like it to be used in combat so perhaps that means SE feels they would be able to do so effectively with 2.0.

Of course it wouldn't be good to assume it would be perfect either of course. :3

---

SE wants this game to succeed. Furthermore, apparently pvp is making it into the game at the launch of 2.0.

By those two factors alone I am expecting latency on FFXIV 2.0 to be up to par to the standards of today's MMO's. Otherwise as I said 2.0 will be an epic fail. Even worse is the thought of pvp being broken because of latency issues still Being part of the game experience.

The ironic thing is, MMOs out today have their own issues which makes PvP unplayable not limited to and including Latency issues depending on vs count.

I think people need to be less concerned with latency issues. SE should work that out.
Players should just go and say hey yeah, it'd be cool to dodge stuff in battle by jumping.

Then SE should go and think how to make that work.

People here need to stop putting themselves in the place of game developers and start acting like players.

Quote:

---

How would it annoy you sooooo much that simply looking away or going off to do something else wouldn't fix it?

---

It doesn't personally bother me that much, and to an extent I agree with "just ignore them." But it does bother some people, and I don't think zero consideration should be given to people who are upset or made uncomfortable by something. I also gave you good reasons unrelated to whiny complaining. It prevents abuse and creates a sense of strategy when you have to make a concious decision to jump in order to get a desired result, instead of just spamming it and getting "lucky." It's also not realistic to immediately bounce into the air again after making a big jump (the kind of jump that would be big enough to have any useful effect), unless you're on a trampoline. There's going to be at least 1 second or so between jumps. What part of "A few seconds" aren't you understanding? It's barely limiting at all. It's just enough to where it reduces silly abuses, while still allowing you pretty much total freedom. It really feels like you're arguing with me for the sake of doing so.

Quote:

---

Again, who says that being able to jump in combat or jump being useful in combat automagically = completely avoiding damage? Did you not read the whole post you quoted from?

---

I named no specifics as to exactly what effects were being given by jump, but I can't imagine jump reducing damage from something. You'd either jump and not get struck, or not jump/jump too late and get struck. I don't really see any room for an in-between.

Quote:

---

I'll ask again: objectively, how does unrestricted jumping and/or jumping in combat break the game? And don't worry about animation blending; they're professional designers, artists, and programmers... not high school students.

---

I already, objectively, gave you good reasons why totally unrestricted jumping is not a great idea. However, once again, the restriction I described is EXTREMELY minimal and should not interfere with your apparently god given right to jump all you want. I'm extremely puzzled by your agression towards me in this thread.

Animation blending is always an issue, whether oyu're a "high school student" or a professional. Some things just aren't physically possible and/or do not make logical sense when implemented.

The funny part is I'm on your side in thinking it's silly for people to be against jumping because people will bunny hop. But I'm showing sensitivity to their position, while you're basically just saying "screw them." You're fueling their fire, while I'm offering a reasonable compromise that gives most people what they want and doesn't give what some people don't want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Animation blending is always an issue, whether oyu're a "high school student" or a professional. Some things just aren't physically possible and/or do not make logical sense when implemented.

---

This. This this this.

2.0 isn't some magic dust that is going to be sprinkled on the game to make it flawless. You should always assume that there will be some latency in the game because realistically there will be. Do you really want something else mucking up combat? I don't.

I'm still of the mind that jumping should be limiting to getting around terrain and cosmetic purposes (read: like emotes) and leave it out of combat entirely. How about limiting jumping to passive mode only? I think that would be a good way to handle it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ahntone

2.0 isn't some magic dust that is going to be sprinkled on the game to make it flawless. You should always assume that there will be some latency in the game because realistically there will be. Do you really want something else mucking up combat? I don't.

I'm still of the mind that jumping should be limiting to getting around terrain and cosmetic purposes (read: like emotes) and leave it out of combat entirely. How about limiting jumping to passive mode only? I think that would be a good way to handle it.

---

I'm not expecting 2.0 to be some "magic dust". However, I am expecting it to considerably improve upon every single aspect of the current game. One of those things is Latency issues which as I've mentioned, is one of the bigger issues with this game. it makes little sense for SE to revamp the entire game and then not fix one of the most annoying issues with this game since launch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nox

I'm not expecting 2.0 to be some "magic dust". However, I am expecting it to considerably improve upon every single aspect of the current game. One of those things is Latency issues which as I've mentioned, is one of the bigger issues with this game. it makes little sense for SE to revamp the entire game and then not fix one of the most annoying issues with this game since launch.

---

Will it be better? Absolutely. Will there still be some latency issues? Yes. Could jumping add to the frustration? Sure.

SE will do their best to make things better for sure. New server structure will certainly help with this. What you should take away from what I said was that things will improve but not be perfect. Latency is something that will never go away.

In my opinion jumping in FFXIV should work like it has in previous Final Fantasy games, most notably Final Fantasy XIII. Jumping should only occur when you come to an obstacle which can be jumped. Simply walking up to the obstacle will cause your character to automatically leap on top of it. I feel that this is the best way to add jumping to Final Fantasy games and MMOs in particular as it avoids the problem of having players continually jumping for no reason as they travel around the world which ruins the atmosphere for other players.

However you choose to allow players to jump in FFXIV I definitely think that the most important thing you need to keep in mind is this problem of players abusing jumping at the expense of everyone else's immersion. This one problem is the only reason I'm worried about seeing jumping added and I imagine many other players share my concern. If you can come up with a solid solution, be it the one I mentioned or perhaps even something like a stamina system, then I'll happily welcome the new addition to the game.

i feel jumping should be something you have to time, not something abusably available. Jumping is very taxing in real life as we know, and whilst realism is not the focus in a fantasy world, i do feel that using jump for something like jumping over a low enemy special skill in a boss fight would be pretty interesting. Combined with the need to ration your jumping to have it available right when you need it would make avoiding that attack all the more epic with the feature.

Heck, could even be a use for the stamina guage's return, tied directly into jumping, falling and damage calculations for impacts from height.

Thank you so much Gahoo!! Great reporting and interview! Look forward to the next pod-cast!


_________________________________________________

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenaku

it's a yes / no pretty much i think it a train tracks or power line one of the two.

---

It would be so cool to ride a train and enjoy the view during the ride... (dont have to worry about movement controls) sit bad and wait for the next stop and take pictures!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by casker

gameplay wise i think he just meant it wont be helpful in terms of jumping out of the way of attacks

i'm sure it will still be useful for jumping on stuff and getting to certain places, etc.

---

1- Dancers loose special status due to dance emotes(in FFxi)
2- Dragoons [will] loose special status due to jump actions(FFxiv)

...see a trend here?

________________________________________________

No.

/tenchar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

We would like to gather your thoughts about jump and how you would like it to be used (In combat? Getting around obstacles?) so we can pass them along to development team. Please let us know what you think. Thanks!

---

awesome

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zyph

Traversing the environment is the only thing I'd like to see jump used for other than aesthetics (which I think is a dumb aesthetic but whatever).

Implementing jumping in PVP would just turn this into an action game.

The only way jumping excites me is that no longer will players be magnetized to the ground in the sense that if they walk over a cliff they're immediately moved down to the ground on the other side, it looks dumb.

Falling damage should be strict. Anything over 10 yalms high should be instant death.

---

This.

I 90% agree.

jump is just great to use, I love it, always have. in pvp, jump should certainly be restricted. I've been playing MMO's for over 8 years, and I can tell you it always leads to more problems. I also played Anarchy Online with the same type of fall damage that you mentioned (it was removed eventually) terrible mechanic, please no fall damage! :)

I agree with taking damage/possible death from a big fall too. It adds to the immersion, and can add a danger element to certain terrains.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnimaOnline

In my opinion jumping in FFXIV should work like it has in previous Final Fantasy games, most notably Final Fantasy XIII. Jumping should only occur when you come to an obstacle which can be jumped. Simply walking up to the obstacle will cause your character to automatically leap on top of it. I feel that this is the best way to add jumping to Final Fantasy games and MMOs in particular as it avoids the problem of having players continually jumping for no reason as they travel around the world which ruins the atmosphere for other players.

---

This. Can I have it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KraggyKor

This! More importantly BLOCK IT IN TOWNS!

Just look at games like WOW, Rift, LOTRO etc. Towns that are popular are filled with retards jumping about on their oh-so-kewl mounts like demented 5-year-olds on beany-bags.

We don't need that idiocy in FFXIV thank you.

---

This idiocy is your opinion. People do it in those games because they have nothing better to do or just like to jump, it doesn't hurt anybody or effect anybody else playing the game in any negative way. So why even complain about it? For one we can't have mounts in town, two I kind of doubt mounts will be able to jump in this unless they have a get near edge proximity jump or something.

By the way I too said this should be restricted in town so it would appease the idiots who freak out over nothing because they are afraid that the game they do like will in some small way resemble a great game that they refuse to like because of childlike tendencies. :) Let people do what they want to do and worry about your damn self.

More concerned with Summoning than people jumping where ever they want to.

35 more pages of people crying about jump.

this community has its priorities straight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raistlin

i just have to go active -> passive all the time to annoy people. So what now? lets place a 20 seconds cooldown between active and passive modes?

---

You can barely notice someone doing this if you tried, so no.

Quote:

---

i can /laugh all the time near you, so what? a limit on how many emotes i can use per minute?

---

Yes. This is extremely annoying, and filtering emotes only filters the text, not the sound.

Quote:

---

i can run around you all the time making my armor and steps annoy you.

---

If you were following me around or specifically hanging near me to do this, I would call a GM for harassment.

Quote:

---

i can swap gear all the time near you to flip around you! lets limit that too.

---

I don't even understand this one.

Quote:

---

Flare

---

Already has a 2 minute cooldown

Quote:

---

Talking with friends in /say

---

Talking is not normally disruptive and the other user has means of dealing with it if they don't like it(blacklist, switch to another chat tab, use chat filters)
Because the character is something that is moving up and down if you're jumping, you can't just filter that out.

Anyway, The fact that a literal 1-2 second cooldown bothers you is beyond absurdity- you're purely arguing for argument's sake. It is nothing like any of the things you listed above. Going to whacky extremes and using slippery slope arguments does not make your statements convicing.
etc.

Quote:

---

Deal with it.

---

No. I won't deal with it.

Alhanelem aint no dealer.

A while back I did a free week trial of WoW just to see what the big deal was, and in the 2 days that I actually played one of the only things I remember was seeing people jump EVERYWHERE and it looked so stupid. I just hope our jump is nothing like that. I also remember back in the beta forums, people complaining about not having jump because at 'HNM camps they wanted something to pass the time'... herpderp

Anyways, I agree with everyone mentioning that they want it to be a tool used to go around the terrain. Maybe how some of the doors in Nanawa you need to open yourself, that could be how you can jump up/down ledges etc. Not sure if anyone already used using the menu as an example, I honestly didn't read all the posts >.>, so just my $0.02

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mamakat

A while back I did a free week trial of WoW just to see what the big deal was, and in the 2 days that I actually played one of the only things I remember was seeing people jump EVERYWHERE and it looked so stupid. I just hope our jump is nothing like that. I also remember back in the beta forums, people complaining about not having jump because at 'HNM camps they wanted something to pass the time'... herpderp

Anyways, I agree with everyone mentioning that they want it to be a tool used to go around the terrain. Maybe how some of the doors in Nanawa you need to open yourself, that could be how you can jump up/down ledges etc. Not sure if anyone already used using the menu as an example, I honestly didn't read all the posts >.>, so just my $0.02

---

Most of us who don't mind it the point is why does it bother you what other people do? Turn your camera if you don't want to see it, I don't want to see 100 people lagging up my town sitting AFK with their bazaar up but I have too. That actually peeves me off too especially when most of those people guess what, have all their items listed for 9999999999999.

I just really can't comprehend why it could bother anyone, and why they would want to nerf something before it even comes out because another game has something similar in it. You know one of the main reasons people jump in WoW besides being bored and can't think of nothing better to do than jump around town? Fluidity, the game moves so fluidly and the jump feels so light and good you just can't help yourself by spamming the space bar. Plus something about smashing that space bar is addictive on a primal level, lol.

So because people bunny hop all around on WoW or some other games you think the community that plays this game will do the same thing? I honestly think maybe only a handful of people would jump around just to do it. Also as I have said and others have said perhaps they are willing to make you not be able to jump in town. That way for whatever reason it is that irks you, you wouldn't have to see it 24/7 by those few that do it.

P.S. Alhanelem: If they add something in whatever way you will have to deal with it if you want to play the game. Unless you want to become the next Rokien.

I'd like to be jump be useful too. Like now there are GAZILLION nooks that I have to run around because I can't jump 10cm that they would require. They're also completely impossible to see where the collision walls happen.

It's not like it's going to break the game for me, I'm not going to rage at anyone, and it doesn't ~offend me~ when people do it. If people want to jump because it's more "realistic" to get around terrain, that's totally fine and great. But, how many people do you see hopping around town for no reason at all? 0 because it would look dumb ;) I wish people wouldn't get so offended because someone doesn't like the way spamming jump looks in game. You like it, I think it looks silly, but we'll both live no matter what way the decide to go. I was just putting in my 2cents on a way to use jump through the menu when you reach an obstacle in the way that you do when you reach some doors in Nanawa.

And please don't get me started on the bozos lagging up town with their 999999999 BS that no one cares about.

I think most of the "hate" comes from the fact pro-jumpers are very quick to want to annoy those who didn't care for the feature or didn't want it. They'll say "now that I get jump I'm going to jump around endlessly around those who hate it".

When someone asked for an animation toggle on jumping, pro-jumpers immediately told them "no!" even though it doesn't affect them lol. So it's not the feature itself people hate, it's a lot of the supporters of it who gets people to hate it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

We would like to gather your thoughts about jump and how you would like it to be used (In combat? Getting around obstacles?) so we can pass them along to development team. Please let us know what you think. Thanks!

---

I've only read some of the reply's to this so sorry if it's already been suggested.

I would really like to see jump used to avoid hazardous obstacles. i.e. traps, acid, bottomless pits, etc.

A game that did this really well without it affecting combat was Dungeons and Dragons Online. Yes it's an action RPG, yes characters are a bit bouncy, no I'm not saying to make this game like that. But the depth of their dungeons and the environmental content was awesome fun.

I also support the idea of a recast timers on jump to counter the bouncy effect. This could also play well into the way hazards function, requiring management of the recast to successfully traverse harder hazards.

Quote:

---

Greetings,

We would like to gather your thoughts about jump and how you would like it to be used (In combat? Getting around obstacles?) so we can pass them along to development team. Please let us know what you think. Thanks!

---

Jumping is okay , please just be aware that some players will use the jump as an exploit to not avoid hits by a monster or something like that , nothing more.