It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Yea it's a shame that just like real life we have to respect that other people make different decisions to us.

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Good point! Are you respecting other people's choice to desire the toggle option?

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Good point! Are you respecting other people's choice to desire the toggle option?

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So basically: "please respect my decision to change how everyone else looks!"

So many posts in this thread are the definition of being self-centered.

I don't like every glam I see, I don't even like every character's face I see in the forums. I see a lot of characters whose appearance I think is woeful. But I'm not selfish enough to think SE should make a tool just so I can bring the game closer to my personal world view.

Also I like how it seems no one has so far addressed that turning off glams isn't even a guarantee that characters would look more conventional due to combat gear such as the Shisui sets. OP's idea is flawed. It's not guaranteed to work the way they want purely because of the way SE themselves design some gear.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

No one said they wanted this to be a single player game. You have obvious differences from an NPC in that you can type a variety of different words in response to the situation, as well as the player name over your head. I don't need to see someone wrapped in a frog suit to know when I am looking at a player.

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This thread was all about how other players ruin their immersion and they want some way to remove a big part of what even makes this game an mmo for the sake of that. If you want every player to look exactly like their job or race gear, you are basically saying you want people to look like nameless npcs that don't ruin your immersion. How does this option fulfill a purpose already fulfilled by trusts? How is pairing up with three random strangers you don't know immersive just because they're dressed appropriately? They've hardly created a canon lore justification for this beyond those people being some random adventurer's you team up with. Which I'm not sure makes sense given how more and more bizarre each scenario comes when you think about some Joe Shmo standing next to you at the ultima weapon, I don't think some random adventurer not considered to be another WoL in your eyes signed up for what ended up going down in there, or most places really. The only exception to this is the hades fight where it's noted that he is summoning warriors of light from other worlds, or something like that. Which is slightly fourth wall breaking if you look at it in the "other players" way. Maybe not, since we have the warriors of light on the first that were here before us, but still. Are the other players in that instance supposed to represent other players or npcs? I don't know

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And I can understand someone being upset that their character or even themselves are being misrepresented due to someone else turning off glams and sharing imagery with them in it.

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Again, if someone wants to share imagery or screenshots with your altered character in it, be it by Mods or by outright photoshop, what can you do about it? As you are in what I would consider to be a relatively public space, the expectations of privacy and purity of representation should be minimal.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You might not care if your character appears in someone else's screenshot with your unglammed gear, but some other people would. For some people their characters are the only way they can express themselves, because we live in a society where acting outside the norm can get you shunned. By removing their glams you are effectively doing what society would prefer them to do irl.

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My requesting an option to not see mascot headed, clashing color yokai weaponed, fishnet clad and giant armor chonk booted people has nothing to do with your "expression" and everything to do with how I want to experience the game. This isn't about the player wishing to censor others, just to maintain an experience and feel. I am not oppressing anyone if I change my personal perception. I am not requesting that anyone change their ways in any way, in fact if you read earlier you'd see that this might even unlock further customization and options as the excuse to limit job glams since it's "confusing" would disappear if you could generically represent jobs on your own screen for convenience. This option isn't about repressing or telling you that you're "wrong" for wanting to do something, it's about giving people options to customize their own experience.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And I'm pretty sure nothing I said here will even vaguely resonate with you, so I'm just going to look forward to your next post saying that disliking being seen in a way you didn't choose is somehow bordering on some manner of mental illness.

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The example given that you're referring to is an infinitesimal chance upon an infinitesimal chance. It's like worrying about donating blood on the off chance that someone who receives a transfusion and then commits a crime and gets hurt leaves behind your DNA would get you arrested. If you find that a reasonable argument, I will tell you that yes, your grip on reality is shaky and your perceptions of actual statistical happenings are poor.

Disliking being seen in a way you don't choose is universally disliked, just look at all those memes out there about "Instagram Vs Facebook tagged" posts. People hate it. I get that. But you are likely represented in unfavorable ways just by people looking at you that you haven't even noticed making judgements about you that you will NEVER KNOW ABOUT. Dwelling on that and constantly worrying about it WILL make you insane and/or paranoid.


HOWEVER. We are speaking of a glamour in a game. While we can talk about it back and forth and get all offtopic about representation and acceptance and freedom of expression, the main point here is if I'm playing a video game I'd like as much control over my own experience as possible. If I can do this without perceptibly ruining anyone elses experience, it's awesome. This particular option only seems to bother people who cannot stand the idea of not completely controlling every aspect of how their character is displayed. Again something that is impossible to guarantee in any client based graphic representation of an MMO.


This option isn't to oppress but to allow a more customizable personal experience.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So basically: "please respect my decision to change how everyone else looks!"

So many posts in this thread are the definition of being self-centered.

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I fail to see how my side is the self-centered one when you want to ensure you impose your appearance on everyone else. All the OP is asking for is a function that would change only their view and would affect you in no way, where as what you desire does affect other people, simply so you can retain your self-satisfaction in knowing others can see what you see.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Again, if someone wants to share imagery or screenshots with your altered character in it, be it by Mods or by outright photoshop, what can you do about it? As you are in what I would consider to be a relatively public space, the expectations of privacy and purity of representation should be minimal.

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Okay, so the game is a public space.

What gives you the right to dictate how other people appear in a public space? And yes it would be exactly that if someone uploaded screenshots of someone with forced unglammed gear. That is literally changing someone's appearance, without their consent, in a public space.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

You make this out to be a big deal just as much as I do on the other end. You also don't have to see anything. This is the exact same back and forth argument that doesn't take us anywhere

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I kind of do. If you bring your "expressive" glamours into an instance I have to experience them, sometimes in relevant cutscenes. If you bring them into the part of the map I'm crafting on and stand in my field of vision I have to see them. If you bring them up to the marketboard or other social hub in the city while I'm hanging out with my friends I kinda have to experience them.

The difference being if this option was enabled you would never know that it was on or not, on the other hand I am always acutely aware of people being "creative" in the spaces I like to hang out in.

It isn't an attack on someone's identity, so it's a deceptive argument for it to be framed as such in the first place. It'd be a different thing entirely if someone forced somebody else to have to view their character in a full suit of steel armour. Yet since it's entirely client side in regards to this suggestion, it wouldn't affect them at all.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Okay, so the game is a public space.

What gives you the right to dictate how other people appear in a public space? And yes it would be exactly that if someone uploaded screenshots of someone with forced unglammed gear. That is literally changing someone's appearance, without their consent, in a public space.

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I have no right. I would also NOT be dictating how they would appear in a public space, only in my computer. As far as the server is concerned if anyone chose to load the given information they would see that persons "creativity". They would never know, I would never need to say anything, for all intents and purposes we would both be happy.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It isn't an attack on someone's identity, so it's a deceptive argument for it to be framed as such in the first place. It'd be a different thing entirely if someone forced somebody else to have to view their character in a full suit of steel armour. Yet since it's entirely client side in regards to this suggestion, it wouldn't affect them at all.

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Conveniently ignoring that people take screenshots and stream, okay.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Conveniently ignoring that people take screenshots and stream, okay.

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This is starting to feel as though it has become a case of moving goalposts...to the point where there's an unreasonable expectation in regards to just how far someone has to go in order to account for the sensibilities of other players. It's pretty eerie - to the point where it reminds me of the first half hour or so of the Funny Games movie...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

This is starting to feel as though it has become a case of moving goalposts...to the point where there's an unreasonable expectation in regards to just how far someone has to go in order to account for the sensibilities of other players. It's pretty eerie - to the point where it reminds me of the first half hour or so of the Funny Games movie...

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No this is you blatantly ignoring that the option you and OP want wouldn't be strictly client side because of the ability to upload screenshots and streams.

At this point I'm just repeating myself, and you guys are too. Have fun trying to justify this option, that would most definitely cost a lot of time and effort for SE to introduce. They very frequently cite loading times and what servers are capable of for having difficulty or even being unable to do certain things. I imagine the option you want would potentially run into that sort of issue in development. It may look like a flick of a switch to some people, but an option that would auto-hide the glams of potentially hundreds of players in the same zone could actually be a very complicated thing to fulfill, depending on how the game is programmed to read the appearances of players.

Good luck in your quest for this.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It isn't an attack on someone's identity, so it's a deceptive argument for it to be framed as such in the first place. It'd be a different thing entirely if someone forced somebody else to have to view their character in a full suit of steel armour. Yet since it's entirely client side in regards to this suggestion, it wouldn't affect them at all.

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Yeah, I don't think it's an attack on someone's identity or a censoring of one's personal expression. That's reaching a bit, to be sure. I think both sides of this have fair points, however. One side wants their characters to be seen for what/who they are, while the others want to see these same characters the way they would prefer to see them. In the real world this doesn't fly all too well, but in a game? It's a game. These characters are not our real selves. To that I'd say "WHO CARES?" to both sides of this I suppose. So...while I don't feel that this toggle is worth the development time I think that people need to tone down their opposition a bit so it doesn't sound so silly.

I agree with you Vahlnir but at this point I kinda want this to be implemented to piss these people off haha my popcorn needs more salt

If we're talking about options... why can't both sides have the option? One side to get to hide it on their cilent and the others side to counter act it. Be kindof funny cause you'll know who choose to lock their cilent. Everyone wins.

Tl;dr

"ITS MY GLAMOUR MY CHOICE, BUT ALSO I WANT TO BE ABLE TO WEAR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING EVEN IF IT LOOKS OUTRAGEOUS"

"Yeah ok, but if you get to do that, can we get a toggle to maybe not see that and just have people default to more lore-friendly gear that would only be client-sided so it doesn't affect anyone else?"

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Originally Posted by Mordraug

Some people: "I'd like to be able to turn off glamours as some people make theirs immersion breaking, it'd be on my client's side so only I would see the change".
Some other people: "REEEEEEEEEE YOU'RE BEING ENTITLED! LOOK AT MY GLAM! LOOK - AT - MY - GLAMS!!! MUH RIGHTS!"

Who needs a chill pill again? ^_^

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Originally Posted by Apopopo

Tl;dr

"ITS MY GLAMOUR MY CHOICE, BUT ALSO I WANT TO BE ABLE TO WEAR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING EVEN IF IT LOOKS OUTRAGEOUS"

"Yeah ok, but if you get to do that, can we get a toggle to maybe not see that and just have people default to more lore-friendly gear that would only be client-sided so it doesn't affect anyone else?"

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Why does every summarisation of the other side's view involve capslock and poor grammar?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Why does every summarisation of the other side's view involve capslock and poor grammar?

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Because that's what it is, one side is demanding everything be the way they want it and the other is asking for a client-side toggle. One is /forcing/, the other is not.

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Originally Posted by LauraAdalena

I don't really want to read all 20 something pages of this thread to find out if someone already said this but.... There are unglamoured pieces of tank gear that aren't plate, and many times people won't wear consistent gear sets making them look alright, which makes them look mis-matched and awful. Will you complain then when people wear gear like that despite it being what they need to for that tier/dungeon? Because it sounds like you might.

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Simple solution, show everyone else in their starter gear or the job gear of the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Apopopo

Because that's what it is, one side is demanding everything be the way they want it and the other is asking for a client-side toggle. One is /forcing/, the other is not.

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Both sides are forcing. Just in different ways.

I don't want my character forced into, say, the dancer AF gear instead of the less-revealing but still entirely dancer-themed outfit I made for her because I don't want to be seen wearing the skimpy dancer outfit. Even if I don't see that you've done so.

And again I am not actually forcing you to look at my outfit in any detail - assuming it's even the sort of outfit you're objecting to, which it probably isn't.

And I am quite capable of expressing it with proper punctuation and full sentences.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

Part of why I play is so I can exist somewhere no one can reasonably impose their "standards" on me

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Stop using the word impose. You're imposing just as much as we are. I don't want your glamour on my screen, and you do.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

No, It's not fine, you don't get to choose what I look like for your own personal convenience reasons, you can run trusts or stop paying your sub if it bothers you that much that people exist in your mmo. Imagine how someone would look at you if you told them you want to remove all the bears in the woods so you can have a camping trip.

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Except the bears and the woods don't belong to me, but my computer does. And if the woods did belong to me, I'd drive the bears out first.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Both sides are forcing. Just in different ways.

I don't want my character forced into, say, the dancer AF gear instead of the less-revealing but still entirely dancer-themed outfit I made for her because I don't want to be seen wearing the skimpy dancer outfit. Even if I don't see that you've done so.

And again I am not actually forcing you to look at my outfit in any detail - assuming it's even the sort of outfit you're objecting to, which it probably isn't.

And I am quite capable of expressing it with proper punctuation and full sentences.

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Then don't use the toggle? Seems like a simple solution, that's why it's a toggle after all, you know, so players have a, dot dot dot, choice.

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Originally Posted by Apopopo

Then don't use the toggle? Seems like a simple solution, that's why it's a toggle after all, you know, so players have a, dot dot dot, choice.

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Because, as I have repeatedly said, my issue would be with other people using the toggle on me.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

This option would stop NOBODY from expressing themselves how they want. It would only affect those who didn't wish to experience such expression. There is a big difference between "I don't want to see that" and "you can't wear that because I don't want to see it".

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There are much more important things that SE hasn't fixed *cough* Viera and Hrothgar *cough* to justify wasting resources on this idea right now.

I mean seriously, if SE can't even spare the development time to include the new races in the hairstyles they release, let alone develop male Viera and female Hrothgar, let alone actually making helmets properly fit them or even letting them wear every single helmet in the game, then why should they waste their time listening to whiners who want something like disabling glamours of every single race, gender, and class because "muh immersion"

I get it, I hate that stupid frog suit that they added because it's creepy, I don't like seeing max height roes in metallic gold pig costumes, but people's fashion choices being a little weird just comes with the territory of being an MMO. Immersion flew out the window the day they added full body animal suits.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Because, as I have repeatedly said, my issue would be with other people using the toggle on me.

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So why is it okay for you to have an issue with it, but not okay for someone else to have an issue with, for example, a roegadyn wearing a thong? Seems a bit one-sided. You either have both of neither, pick one.

(Hint: Good luck convincing SE to delete things they've already done.)

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

There are much more important things that SE hasn't fixed *cough* Viera and Hrothgar *cough* to justify wasting resources on this idea right now.

I mean seriously, if SE can't even spare the development time to include the new races in the hairstyles they release, let alone develop male Viera and female Hrothgar, let alone actually making helmets properly fit them or even letting them wear every single helmet in the game, then why should they waste their time listening to whiners who want something like disabling glamours of every single race, gender, and class because "muh immersion"

I get it, I hate that stupid frog suit that they added because it's creepy, I don't like seeing max height roes in metallic gold pig costumes, but people's fashion choices being a little weird just comes with the territory of being an MMO. Immersion flew out the window the day they added full body animal suits.

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Two different issues buddy, last I checked, the guys coding aren't also the ones creating digital assets.

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Originally Posted by Apopopo

(Hint: Good luck convincing SE to delete things they've already done.)

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I fail to see your point when we're discussing something hypothetical that you would like SE to do, but they haven't actually done.

What would I need to convince them to delete?

Ok, so something i just learned from reading (most) of this thread is that someone somewhere out there can see my character naked no matter what im wearing. Poor thing... they'd need a microscope to see me bits.

Joking aside, i see both sides of the argument but im not really on any side. If and when i start to glamour it will be for myself so long as i can see the glamour i chose i really dont care how others see me, even if it is with me tackle out. If thats how people get their kicks well far be it for me to stop 'em. I really dont know much about programming or how it would work to put an option where you can hide glamour, and again if it doesnt stop me from seeing how i want my character to look then i really dont mind it being there. The only time id mind is if it started effecting the servers and causing lag.

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Originally Posted by Apopopo

Two different issues buddy, last I checked, the guys coding aren't also the ones creating digital assets.

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Doesn't matter, it's still a waste of resources that could be better put into something else other than whiners on the forums.

If you want immersion and non-ridiculous glamours, go play an Elder Scrolls game or something

It's kind of a loathsome thought to imagine one's character in an outfit not specifically chosen by them being seen elsewhere and as others have pointed out, the picture process would likely do just that. So I'm vehemently against it, unless of course the process automatically hides those who've been glam-toggled from having their picture taken...blanked right out of pictures so to speak.

I must admit a bit of curiosity directed at the option of hiding outfits. I'd almost like to see the data after a few months, the percentages of what is hidden, why, etc.... I could see it becoming overused, curious to know where people would draw the line...thongs one day, a certain color the next.

What would my view of Limsa plaza look like in comparison to someone who uses it?

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

Stop using the word impose. You're imposing just as much as we are. I don't want your glamour on my screen, and you do.



Except the bears and the woods don't belong to me, but my computer does. And if the woods did belong to me, I'd drive the bears out first.

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Didn't realize me standing around minding my own business was imposing on you so much that you feel the need to change what I'm wearing.

What are you even talking about, In this scenario I created, bears = other players, and the woods = an mmo setting. Bears will always exist in the woods like other players will always exist in mmos. Trying to eliminate aspects of what makes this an mmo via altering what you see on your own screen is like trying to remove the bears in the woods so you can camp in peace - it won't happen. You should not feel compelled to personally alter the choices another person has made by existing to cater to you the same way you shouldn't try to remove all the bears simply to cater to your own needs. You are claiming entitlement over how you want someone to appear for you. I should decide what that is, not you, because I'm not even bothering you by standing around minding my own business. I'm asking that you leave me and my character's appearance alone, and I will leave you alone so as to not "impose my appearance" on you. I fail to realize what the logic is in thinking that people playing the game the way they want to play, wearing what they want to wear, is "imposing on you." They're having fun being themselves while you're getting mad at the fact these people chose to simply exist in the same vicinty as you. I really can't imagine looking at someone reading a newspaper as I walk by and thinking "oh my god, how dare they impose upon me and my eyeballs"

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Originally Posted by Apopopo

So why is it okay for you to have an issue with it, but not okay for someone else to have an issue with, for example, a roegadyn wearing a thong? Seems a bit one-sided. You either have both of neither, pick one.

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Uh, because on one end you're mad at someone's personal outfit choice, and on the other end people are not okay with others altering their own personal outfit choice without their consent. These are two very different things

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

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By that logic, how am I imposing on you by changing it on my screen? I'm just minding my own business.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

I really can't imagine looking at someone reading a newspaper as I walk by and thinking "oh my god, how dare they impose upon me and my eyeballs"

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It's called unsubscribing to the newspaper, which is exactly the same thing. I don't want to see it, so I make sure it doesn't make its way into my home.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

Uh, because on one end you're mad at someone's personal outfit choice, and on the other end people are not okay with others altering their own personal outfit choice without their consent. These are two very different things

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Why on earth would I need consent to change something on my screen? My pixels do not belong to you.

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

By that logic, how am I imposing on you by changing it on my screen? I'm just minding my own business.

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Why do you feel the need to do such a thing? Is doing anything without someone's consent okay as long as they don't know? I don't consent to having my picture taken, am I supposed to think it's okay for someone to do it anyway as long as I don't find out?

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

It's called unsubscribing to the newspaper, which is exactly the same thing. I don't want to see it, so I make sure it doesn't make its way into my home.

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You literally cannot justify telling a stranger on a park bench to go away because you didn't subscribe to seeing them.

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Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

Why on earth would I need consent to change something on my screen? My pixels do not belong to you.

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My appearance does not belong to you.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

There are much more important things that SE hasn't fixed *cough* Viera and Hrothgar *cough* to justify wasting resources on this idea right now.

I mean seriously, if SE can't even spare the development time to include the new races in the hairstyles they release, let alone develop male Viera and female Hrothgar, let alone actually making helmets properly fit them or even letting them wear every single helmet in the game, then why should they waste their time listening to whiners who want something like disabling glamours of every single race, gender, and class because "muh immersion"

I get it, I hate that stupid frog suit that they added because it's creepy, I don't like seeing max height roes in metallic gold pig costumes, but people's fashion choices being a little weird just comes with the territory of being an MMO. Immersion flew out the window the day they added full body animal suits.

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Like I said , several times, if the majority of people don't want this, then sure, valid argument. However it seems more than a few would want it just in this forum. We aren't in this thread to discuss what squeenix hasn't done, we are discussing the merits of the suggested option.

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Originally Posted by Apopopo

Then don't use the toggle? Seems like a simple solution, that's why it's a toggle after all, you know, so players have a, dot dot dot, choice.

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If people dont like diversity and fantasy costumes, they shouldn't play a fantasy online game period.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

Why do you feel the need to do such a thing? Is doing anything without someone's consent okay as long as they don't know? I don't consent to having my picture taken, am I supposed to think it's okay for someone to do it anyway as long as I don't find out?

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This isn't a picture of you. It's a picture of game assets.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

You literally cannot justify telling a stranger on a park bench to go away because you didn't subscribe to seeing them.

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Way to compare my screen to a park bench.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

My appearance does not belong to you.

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On your screen. On my screen, it does.

But none of this matters anymore, anyway. I already made an app to help myself out.

Go ahead and keep responding. I eliminated my last reason to care.

everyone needs to calm down, if people want to glam x and y its none of your business, if people want to have an option to hide glam its none of your business. and you know why? because it doesnt effect your gameplay.

Please yes, those flat cheeks in bikini are disguting.
Body Shaming ? Please respect my eyes.

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Originally Posted by 3c-33

Uh, because on one end you're mad at someone's personal outfit choice, and on the other end people are not okay with others altering their own personal outfit choice without their consent. These are two very different things

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Funny that you use the word choice when you want to prevent other people from having one.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Like I said , several times, if the majority of people don't want this, then sure, valid argument. However it seems more than a few would want it just in this forum. We aren't in this thread to discuss what squeenix hasn't done, we are discussing the merits of the suggested option.

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It doesn't matter how much merit the option has if it's simply not possible or really practical at the time.

I mean I can suggest they release 20 dungeons every patch and 5 new classes every expansion, but that's not even remotely close to being an option that could be implemented if enough people rallied behind it or thought it was a good idea.