All Greed on Alliance loot

The only way this is a good idea is if they don't put a weekly loot lockout on the raid, but that's unlikely and not mentioned so I can see losing a lot of gear for my main class this way...

Working as intended.

If they implement this, I think a lot of people are going to be angry. The whole concept doesn’t make sense and why change something that has been working? If this is to fix those LOTA drops, well they could increase the items that drop rather than one shitty belt a chest. Groans

I think that it's interesting they chose to do this bad decision after making other similarly bad decisions with alliance raids in the past.

Specifically, Triple Triad cards. Raids like World of Darkness and Syrcus Tower have the cards drop directly into players' inventories after successfully beating the raid. Rabanastre, however, drops the cards into a loot pool. As a result, I'm still trying for Rofocale's card.

if/when they implement this i expect the new 24 mad will dead and impossible to get full raid for on any day other then Tuesday(and maybe not even then) since me and probably most other players will just run it one then for the weekly reward drop then not go back

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Originally Posted by BroodingFicus

It would serve them right if tanks and healers just decided they didn't want the responsibility either and let the queue times skyrocket. Or ya know I just stop resurrecting any dps in my party that is screwing up mechanics and making my life hard while also greeding on the gear I need. I don't see this causing anything but irritation and strife. Their reasoning of 'but they had to run it multiple times to gear secondary jobs' doesn't make sense because this sort of system will likely only make that worse. Not only will people on their main role be struggling to gear but the people trying to gear alt jobs will also be rolling the dice against far more people each time the gear they want drops. I don't know. I've always loved the 24 man raids and was looking forward to the next installment but this makes me not want to bother at all.

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Actually, their reasoning was apparently due to how JP players treat content. The expectation there is to queue on your main as you'll be the most efficient, thus things go faster. Therefore, it was difficult for them to roll on things for their secondary jobs. What irks me about the change is how the devs entirely ignored NA/EU approach content very differently. Such is why they should just implement a token system not unlike EX Primals. Forcing a Greed only rule may help JP but it royally pisses off NA/EU. And I hate to break it to you SE, but NA alone has a larger playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Actually, their reasoning was apparently due to how JP players treat content. The expectation their is to queue on your main as you'll be the most efficient, thus things go faster. Therefore, it was difficult for them to roll on things for their secondary jobs. What irks me about the change is how the devs entirely ignored NA/EU approach content very differently. Such is why they should just implement a token system not unlike EX Primals. Forcing a Greed only rule may help JP but it royally pisses off NA/EU. And I hate to break it to you SE, but NA alone has a larger playerbase.

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I have to agree with this, this change doesn't seem to address an issue that lot of people had and I'd expect to lead to lot of frustration in a game mode that already seems to bring out the worst in a lot of the player base. I think this is the first time I'm hoping something doesn't have nice looking gear for mains....

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Actually, their reasoning was apparently due to how JP players treat content. The expectation their is to queue on your main as you'll be the most efficient, thus things go faster. Therefore, it was difficult for them to roll on things for their secondary jobs. What irks me about the change is how the devs entirely ignored NA/EU approach content very differently. Such is why they should just implement a token system not unlike EX Primals. Forcing a Greed only rule may help JP but it royally pisses off NA/EU. And I hate to break it to you SE, but NA alone has a larger playerbase.

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I did a google translate on a thread that is on the JP about this. they seem to be against greedy only mostly. There's also mention of tokens. Someone saying it will take 64 runs to get an item. That this change is only being done to get you to play more. Someone said that its recommended to do Alliance raids to when you come back for a break, but after this change, they won't be able to recommend that anymore. Some just saying they are surprised that SE just considers Alliance raids for secondary jobs. There was also this odd translation that was put in quotes I kept seeing. I didn't get it at first but I think they are saying if you want the item, you go as the job that can use it.

i don't like this change. let's hope there is enough negative feedback until the patch day

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

i don't like this change. let's hope there is enough negative feedback until the patch day

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Unfortunately I doubt it going by the fact that the said they'd be taking in feedback only to decide if they should continue this trend in future Alliance Raids. That sounds suspiciously like they plan to push it through no matter how people feel and /then/ see about not doing it in the future. Best we can likely do is make it very obvious that it isn't an acceptable change and doesn't solve the problem they claim it does.

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Originally Posted by Ariane

I did a google translate on a thread that is on the JP about this. they seem to be against greedy only mostly.

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Well then it seems that mostly SE wanted this change and just used the JP as their reason if even quite some JP players on the forum are against it..so they make a lot of their western playerbase angry and still not even have all JP players on their side for that..perfect.

I've read a few responses highlighting the benefit of this change, but I'm afraid I don't really understand any benefit to this change.

I have a crazy idea...

Ok lets have All greed in Alliance Loot... BUT... hear me out... BUT!!! if you go as the class the loot its for you can click this little button... lets call it NEED, so you have priority in it.

I dont know maybe its too crazy to actually implement it.

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Originally Posted by Ariane

I did a google translate on a thread that is on the JP about this. they seem to be against greedy only mostly. There's also mention of tokens. Someone saying it will take 64 runs to get an item. That this change is only being done to get you to play more. Someone said that its recommended to do Alliance raids to when you come back for a break, but after this change, they won't be able to recommend that anymore. Some just saying they are surprised that SE just considers Alliance raids for secondary jobs. There was also this odd translation that was put in quotes I kept seeing. I didn't get it at first but I think they are saying if you want the item, you go as the job that can use it.

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If that is the case, then the devs are simply listening to the lowest common denominator who want things for glamour or get mad they can't need on something despite not even having the job unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

If that is the case, then the devs are simply listening to the lowest common denominator who want things for glamour or get mad they can't need on something despite not even having the job unlocked.

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Are you surprised? Lol

I really hope they don't follow through with this, I'd like to run this on MCH for both the gear and practice. Since I main WAR for raiding I don't get a lot of extra time on my MCH. I'm damn sure not taking my War in hopes of leaching some ranged gear >.<

Truly makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Are you surprised? Lol

I really hope they don't follow through with this, I'd like to run this on MCH for both the gear and practice. Since I main WAR for raiding I don't get a lot of extra time on my MCH. I'm damn sure not taking my War in hopes of leaching some ranged gear >.<

Truly makes no sense.

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Not even in the slightest. That seems to be the Stormblood motto, sadly.

I also feel the same but with non-melee DPS jobs yet why am I going to put up with longer queue times on a tank when I can run DPS and roll on anything I want? Granted, I'll only run this with friends so we can control loot. Afterwards? Once a week outside of for the shits and giggles. All this accomplishes is assuring I'll avoid queuing solo far more often, thus not helping the queue move.

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With that said, we will be reading over community feedback when deciding if we will continue this approach or not in the future.

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Please don't change alliance loot as greed-only. The system isn't broken so please don't 'fix' it.

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Originally Posted by BroodingFicus

Unfortunately I doubt it going by the fact that the said they'd be taking in feedback only to decide if they should continue this trend in future Alliance Raids. That sounds suspiciously like they plan to push it through no matter how people feel and /then/ see about not doing it in the future. Best we can likely do is make it very obvious that it isn't an acceptable change and doesn't solve the problem they claim it does.

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Square has always been a “break first, fix later” company, and this bleeds into FFXIV as well. I have no doubt that they’ll let this run far too long and fix it after the damage has been done.

Well thankfully the gear all looks absolutely hideous so far, so no need to run it more than once per week for me.

so... did Yoshida remove this idea yet or are we really gonna go ahead with this?

I didn't see anything in the translations that are going around, so one can only assume they are going ahead with it.

Maybe they are making melee gear all determination heavy, tank > tenacity, and caster > piety so nobody will care anyway?

One can only hope. At this point even if the stats aren't terrible I'm still probably just going to wait until Pagos is released. I'll just upgrade my alt classes' Anemos gear and stick with that.

(loot that I need does not drop)
> rerun raid until it drops.
> Greed on everything from last chest.

(Loot that I want drops)
> lose it to someone else because everyone can greed on it.

I also disagree with all greed.

I purposely play on a job I'm competent in to gain the Need advantage. This will just make getting your gear take a lot longer because now we have to fight RNG against everyone in the party on top of the RNG of the piece of gear even dropping ><.

Oh, great. So we're gonna get Vaan's FFTA gear, which I love, but it's gonna take me months to get since it's the only interesting set. Thanks, dev team.

i simply don't understand SE's point. they know 24s are often for alts yet they want me to run it on my main.

but why gear an alt job in the first place. if i want gear for another job then i should play it.

I could stand "only greed" if there wouldn't be the stupid weekly lockout...

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Originally Posted by Jennika

Maybe they are making melee gear all determination heavy, tank > tenacity, and caster > piety so nobody will care anyway?

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I havent seen the stats for the sets but I doubt they're putting piety on Caster gear since it's a healer-only stat.

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Originally Posted by Azper

Well thankfully the gear all looks absolutely hideous so far, so no need to run it more than once per week for me.

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Haha true. Sadly they also somehow decided to put an NPC set in there..so good luck for anyone that wants it..since you cant even try to get it on the right job now thanks to all greed..

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

i simply don't understand SE's point. they know 24s are often for alts yet they want me to run it on my main.

but why gear an alt job in the first place. if i want gear for another job then i should play it.

I could stand "only greed" if there wouldn't be the stupid weekly lockout...

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Without the weekly lockout it would be even worse.

Everyone seems to think that just because it's going to be all greed that everyone will roll on everything, news flash, they won't. The new alliance raid will still have a weekly lockout, and if someone wants to waste their 1 drop a week on a pair of ugly shoes instead of something actually functional for an alternate job, then be my guest.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I havent seen the stats for the sets but I doubt they're putting piety on Caster gear since it's a healer-only stat.

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I mean anything is possible with SE look at what they did to caster weapons for example, giving blm no spell speed and determination instead and gave Red Mage Spell Speed... which makes zero sense at all, lol

At least the gear looks ugly this time

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Originally Posted by Maero

I mean anything is possible with SE look at what they did to caster weapons for example, giving blm no spell speed and determination instead and gave Red Mage Spell Speed... which makes zero sense at all, lol

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Wellm some ppl came up with a low spellspeed and heavy crit build for BLM, so I'd say anything is possible (though it's like casting spell in glue)

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Without the weekly lockout it would be even worse.

Everyone seems to think that just because it's going to be all greed that everyone will roll on everything, news flash, they won't. The new alliance raid will still have a weekly lockout, and if someone wants to waste their 1 drop a week on a pair of ugly shoes instead of something actually functional for an alternate job, then be my guest.

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Glamour is a thing and anyone that is already up to date will probably run it either for another job or for glamour. And since they put an NPC outfit in there, a lot more people might roll on this, simply because of that.

Between this and the archaic token system we still have for 8-man raids, I'm starting to get the feeling that Square-Enix wants us to suffer as much as possible to receive our gear. They need to work together to figure out a more appealing method of item drops. It can't be this difficult. People shouldn't have to run the same content 5+ times for a chance to receive the item they're interested in.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Wellm some ppl came up with a low spellspeed and heavy crit build for BLM, so I'd say anything is possible (though it's like casting spell in glue)

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My point is SE just add whatever stats without having any clue. Having added Spell Speed on multiple Red Mage (either gear or weapons) made no sense as it is not really a stat of RM
And Spell Speed has always been the better stat for blm, maybe they hired a intern that never played the game, lol

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Originally Posted by Maero

My point is SE just add whatever stats without having any clue. Having added Spell Speed on multiple Red Mage (either gear or weapons) made no sense as it is not really a stat of RM
And Spell Speed has always been the better stat for blm, maybe they hired a intern that never played the game, lol

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actually they are doing this on purpose. the tome gear is designed to be subpar to raid gear. of course some tome gear is better and some raid gear is worse, but you have to spice things up a bit, didn't you?

putting spellspeed on every BLM weapon would also be a bit boring.

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Originally Posted by Tint

actually they are doing this on purpose. the tome gear is designed to be subpar to raid gear. of course some tome gear is better and some raid gear is worse, but you have to spice things up a bit, didn't you?

putting spellspeed on every BLM weapon would also be a bit boring.

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In just about every MMO I have played the developers have both a different idea of what the meta -should be- than the players, AND do things to try and disrupt the meta - efforts that often if not usually backfire.

It's not just SE. You can't really find an MMO where the devs and player base are on sync on these issues.

And it's not even as trivial as the players 'wanting their favorite class to be best'... nor the players 'wrongly hyper-focused on the top 0.1% of raider parses...' Both of those things happen more often than they should, but often there is just a very different perception of things. (In a few cases I've seen MMO devs hyper focused on the rare elite players... but this is usually the predictor of an MMO that is about to fail commercially, like Wildstar before it's collapse - something that only corrected after they lost over 90% of their players).

It took WoW several expansions to stop putting out 'spirit', their version of 'piety' on tank and ranged physical DPS gear... so even the biggest MMO on the market can be 'out of touch'... As far as people can tell their thinking at the time was 'we need to enable varied playstyles'... and it took players maybe 5-8 years to get them to realize that was a non-existent play style for a reason...

Devs usually respond with something about having better parser tools and seeing more data than the community, but both Wildstar's failure and WoW's spirit-plate point out that this is not as true as devs think...

I'm not breaking my back MTing and putting up with other alliances blaming mine when they're the ones all wiping, and then missing out on getting my better vitality and defense gear to some DPS who should have just queued as a tank. You want gear for your second job? Run that job. This weird explanation that it's "too hard" to gear a second job in lower level gear is garbage. If we could run it blind day one on our main job, why the heck can't we run it 4 weeks later on a second job when the rest of the raid is better geared and had a better understanding of the raid in general???

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Without the weekly lockout it would be even worse.

Everyone seems to think that just because it's going to be all greed that everyone will roll on everything, news flash, they won't. The new alliance raid will still have a weekly lockout, and if someone wants to waste their 1 drop a week on a pair of ugly shoes instead of something actually functional for an alternate job, then be my guest.

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Before weekly lockout it won't pose much of an issue, afterwards though? ... Lol, good luck. People will hit the greed button not even because they are greedy, but because its an automatic reaction. Gearing new classes/new players will have a hell of a time accomplishing anything.

There is simply no reason to change it because absolutely nothing is wrong with it. They are fixing something that is not broken and 3 months after its out, its gonna turn into a real problem. The change is just shortsighted and completely unnecessary.

edit: its already fairly common will get outrolled on a greed roll then examine the player and discover the class the item is for they don't even have unlocked, this is a disaster waiting to happen...