Final Fantasy 14 is starting to lose appeal because...

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Originally Posted by Colorful

in comparison SE never delivered a second difficulty, be it a story mode or savage for Final Coil and only 8 man too.

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Didn't Square say that Savage Second Coil was a failure participation wise so they didn't bother with making a Savage Final Coil?

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The same can be said for SE too though, they release a lot at the start, and then almost immediately replace the gear with further content, and then from patch 2.1+ the content suffers. They waste an entire patches end-game sources on a "catch-up/glamour" raid. I don't follow that logic, why release a raid if its loot is out of date before it's out?

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Weren't there tuning issues with the Crystal Tower? Anyway, we don't know if that is a mistake they will make with Void Ark. We barely know anything about it yet.

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That leaves people who want to progress their character with nothing but hunts (for 2.x anyway) which has to be the worst content in this entire game, and for the hardcore absolutely nothing until 3.2, and then 3.4. That's if we get a 3.4, or even a 3.3. Yoshida did say he wanted a yearly expansion release (3 cheers for less content than WoD if that were to happen!).

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Yet I've seen people applauding FF11 in this thread for releasing their first few expansions almost yearly.

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I really dislike the capped tomestone system, it's nothing but artificially extending the content's life over a few months which they've even forced on crafters too it seems.

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Justice and Valor Points say hello. Blizz got rid of them this expansion. Which tanked all dungeon participation after the first raid was released and people got all the gear they wanted from the dungeons.

I liked Justice and Valor points. It gave me an alternative to gear up my character outside of raiding.

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Beast tribe is just faction dailies from WoW, people there hated them, I'm honestly surprised people are using that as a retort for when people ask for what 3.1 is going to bring to the table. I am looking forward to airship exploration a lot though.

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Nah. See that's what Blizzard heard. They heard "we hate dailies." but what was said was actually "We hate progression gear being locked behind dailies.". Especially since they removed the cap on daily quests right in that expansion meaning people started burning themselves out on doing them trying to get the gear locked behind them to progress better in the raids. The daily system in Pandaria itself was actually pretty decent overall otherwise.

So what did Blizz do in Warlords? No more dailies. Want to farm rep? Kill hundreds and thousands of mobs for a trickle of rep points each kill. And also remove any worthwhile rewards from faction vendors.


Warlords of Draenor is like a case study of what not to do with MMORPGs. That should be taught in college classes.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

Maybe you should check my character profile before you reply. I have every job to 50, ninja to 60, and crafters/gathering above 50. I have all the skills from different jobs that I can use already. You can't take skills from any of the new classes so there's no point to level them unless you actually enjoy playing them. I might give them a try and might even enjoy playing them. Honestly, if the adventure was fun, I'd take every single class to max like I did in 1.0 or even ARR. However, the adventure is not fun because you are locked into doing Fates or grinding the same boring instances. I preferred the FFXI grind parties because then you at least got to make friends and if somebody screwed up, the party wiped. No challenge in FFXIV while leveling.

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I agree and in the same opinion. My comment was aimed towards what you wrote."I should have to play nothing but ninja." There is sub classes, so you can't do that.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

I agree and in the same opinion. My comment was aimed towards what you wrote."I should have to play nothing but ninja." There is sub classes, so you can't do that.

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No idea what you're talking about, but everything I say is in context of what I've already leveled and those people telling me to get the rest of the classes to 60 or play the new classes. Again, what is the point of playing the new classes when I enjoy ninja and want to be the best ninja and they don't give sub skills? Also, there are no sub skills post 50 so why should I get the rest of the classes pass 50?

i think this is limited to US servers? my JP server still has a queue to login every night.

Sad reality is Dev's won't listen to NA unless JP says anything about it.

I'm still waiting to hear about this advanced job system.

What's killing me is the brutal vertical progression of this game, there isn't a single thing...not a damn single one that stays relevant for more than two months (this includes everything, titles, glamour, achievements, fights). I only log in to raid, and I'm very, very, very reluctant to get myself involved in any sort of grind in this game anymore. If it wasn't because of my set and because some of them are real life friends and because it's a very nice group and I like raiding with them, I wouldn't even keep my sub.

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Originally Posted by SyraLeo

i think this is limited to US servers? my JP server still has a queue to login every night.

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Mostly because they're net cafe refugee... #fact

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You mock a game that you clearly have no idea what it's based on. It's a theme park MMORPG... Yoshi-P himself has ALWAYS stated so. This was said while ARR was in development and it is still being said now. That means it is designed to cater to as many people as it can. That means that if you focus only on combat endgame, you're not going to have a fulfilling aspect of the game. Socializing is certainly one huge aspect of MMORPGs, but if you're only doing so under the combat content, you're not taking part in a significant chunk of the game. You have full authority over how you spend your time and money, but that does not change the ignorance of what you are complaining about.

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Then a theme park designed to cater to all audiences is failing if I'm not interested. If I go to a theme park because I enjoy roller coasters and they only have two, at least one of those coasters had better be a damn good experience. Once I've had my fill of coasters, I could ride the teacups or play some fair games, but that's not why I paid to get through the gate. That's the content that appeals to all audiences. It's content, yes, but as it's designed with a broader appeal in mind, it's not what's going to keep me coming back time and again.

Further, let's say the theme park opens up a new roller coaster. I get there, only to find out that it's the same roller coaster as before, but with newly painted rails and cars (This very scenario actually happened at a nearby park). When you ride it, you'll find it's just as fun as before, all the twists and turns, loops and drops will apply the same G-forces to your body and get you that feeling of exhilaration, but it's not new by any means. Telling me to ride the teacups because I'm already tired of riding the "new" coaster doesn't satiate my need for thrills, it only directs me to content designed to cater to someone else.

I'm fully aware of the content that's packed into FF14. I know there's a lot of it, but not all of it interests me to the degree that combat classes and max level content does. If the game truly wants to cater to all audiences, then it actually needs to do so. I understand that content is developed in regards to the amount of customers that are likely to consume it, and of course certain players will find themselves in the minority, but if the game is failing to get those players to invest themselves in the part of the game they find most enjoyable, those players will certainly not invest in the parts they find less enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

Sad reality is Dev's won't listen to NA unless JP says anything about it.

I'm still waiting to hear about this advanced job system.

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Advanced Job system? Oh my.. I would vouch for that!

If my PLD could become a Crusader and actually revive people while in combat.. I would be soo happy!

After that, it's how to steal that swiftcast from the BLM.. but he just don't want to divulge it's secrets to me.. sigh..

Because the community is made up heavily of incredibly rude and childish people who think they know everything.

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Originally Posted by Attarik

Because the community is made up heavily of incredibly rude and childish people who think they know everything.

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Well... um... your chocobo's mom is fat!

Oh yeah, got you good!

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Originally Posted by Rakeesh

Nah. See that's what Blizzard heard. They heard "we hate dailies." but what was said was actually "We hate progression gear being locked behind dailies.". Especially since they removed the cap on daily quests right in that expansion meaning people started burning themselves out on doing them trying to get the gear locked behind them to progress better in the raids. The daily system in Pandaria itself was actually pretty decent overall otherwise.

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Haha. Well that's a first I read someone claim that. It's true that people loathed dailies, not just the gear being locked behind it. The problem with dailies or weeklies is it forced content to be done in a repetitive way (each day for x amount of time).
Daily or weekly caps that are just caps (as opposed to raidlockouts, which are caps delivered in a nice way) will quickly kill any enjoyment found doing said content.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Seems you have all the old classes at level 50, your crafting classes got further than this.
You haven't yet unlocked any new classes.

Right there I found some things for you to do, mate.

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No what you found for him was busy work. If he wanted to level other jobs or new classes he would have already done it. What he is trying to say is besides repeat content there is nothing new for him to go do. Releveling classes is not new content. Well ok maybe some ppl might find it new. But I don't.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Haha. Well that's a first I read someone claim that. It's true that people loathed dailies, not just the gear being locked behind it. The problem with dailies or weeklies is it forced content to be done in a repetitive way (each day for x amount of time).

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Aaaaand there we go. You didn't play Pandaria it seems. The dailies in Pandaria were not repetitive. They gave you a different set of dailies almost every day. And with each rep rank you reached you unlocked new dailies that advanced the story of the faction.

Each rep rank also unlocked actual quests that told an interesting story involving the faction. They were definitely not the mindless dailies of previous expansions.

There you go. A very good videos on the state of dailies in WoW and what they did wrong and right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsfGlNFg6io

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Daily or weekly caps that are just caps (as opposed to raidlockouts, which are caps delivered in a nice way) will quickly kill any enjoyment found doing said content

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Not really. They give you something to work towards. Is that something for everyone? Probably not. But that can be said about any aspect of any game. But I never had a problem capping my valor points each week. Neither do I have a problem with capping my Esos each week.

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Originally Posted by Rakeesh

Aaaaand there we go. You didn't play Pandaria it seems. The dailies in Pandaria were not repetitive. They gave you a different set of dailies almost every day. And with each rep rank you reached you unlocked new dailies that advanced the story of the faction.

Each rep rank also unlocked actual quests that told an interesting story involving the faction. They were definitely not the mindless dailies of previous expansions.

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And the backlash against them was still so great that the lead quest designer had his position split and him moved to doing the story side exclusively to keep him from doing it again.

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Originally Posted by WHS

No what you found for him was busy work. If he wanted to level other jobs or new classes he would have already done it. What he is trying to say is besides repeat content there is nothing new for him to go do. Releveling classes is not new content. Well ok maybe some ppl might find it new. But I don't.

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The last few statements of yours is where things become difficult. "Busy work", "new/repeat content", etc are subjective statements or terms. In this context however, I'm inclined to agree with you. Doesn't really change the fact that it's subjective though. Hating on leveling of classes/jobs would be like me hating on endgame content needing to be done more than once to be fully decked out. "Repeating raids that I've already done once is boring!" My saying that is purely opinionated and ignorant of what the devs have in mind. Probably wouldn't be right to claim that just because I feel that way about something, I'm wrong... would it? Kinda opens Pandora's Box (namely to folks oblivious to their own opinions possibly being otherwise wrong) to say I would be. Some people might think repeat completions are fine, but if that were really how I felt, I wouldn't.

One of my concerns too, is that lately they seem more worried about finding ways to keep players busy than making content fun... red scrips are the most blatant example

it's fairly evident they rushed a lot to get 3.0 out with just enough new things to sell the expansion. 3.1 will be the true test on whether or not the game is heading in a good direction, or is going to stagnate.

gating every system in one way or another is ultimately going to backfire. it makes it too obvious how little there is to do, and discourages people from playing if they get too far behind on the current cycle. it's easier to just unsub and come back next cycle and catch up in a couple of weeks.

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Originally Posted by fortuona

it's fairly evident they rushed a lot to get 3.0 out with just enough new things to sell the expansion. 3.1 will be the true test on whether or not the game is heading in a good direction, or is going to stagnate.

gating every system in one way or another is ultimately going to backfire. it makes it too obvious how little there is to do, and discourages people from playing if they get too far behind on the current cycle. it's easier to just unsub and come back next cycle and catch up in a couple of weeks.

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People have been saying "next patch it will all make sense. Have faith"

Seems that never pans out well.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

People have been saying "next patch it will all make sense. Have faith"

Seems that never pans out well.

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they've been more vocal than ever, especially with regard to 3.0 mixing things up and trying new approaches. if this turns out to be empty promises, or takes too long to deliver, people will simply lose interest and move on.

I agree with rakeesh, wow's issue with dailies was just the massive "relevant" loot lockout at the start of MoP. A casual raiding guild was going to need to get exalted with a considerable amount of MoP reputations before being able to progress in Moshu-w/e vaults, It was never about the daily system itself. I would go so far as to claim that imo the daily system was in a great state at the end of MoP. (no reps behind other reps, relevant gear sooner in the rep totem pole with cosmetic/mounts at exalted, "leans" on older reps to make them easier to cap)

Somewhere along the lines though blizzard took the loud minority at their "we hate dailies cuz they suck!!!" and literally removed content from the game, its important you read that right too...they removed a big chunk of content that already had its system available from the game, then replaced it with a "skeleton" of a system that was the apexis grind.

/rant >.>

guess my point is that ff 14 "systems" aren't flawless but i also understand them taking their time to adjust systems, adjust not remove, and that is if they even deem it necessary as the developers.

For the sake of an example, and within manageable margins: id like to see the current dungeons remain part of the expert roulette along with the new ones (change the rewards within said dungeons to higher/lower tokens if necessary) maybe more token rewards from the 8 man maps and hunts, and maybe new markbills rank for token rewards.
as for weekly lockouts though, outside of resorting to extreme grind systems i cant think of something that would work well in a game that intends to be casual friendly.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

One of my concerns too, is that lately they seem more worried about finding ways to keep players busy than making content fun... red scrips are the most blatant example

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I feel like SEis trying to smoke screen us. Like look at this time consuming drawn out crap..... Guys!! Hurry up with that content they are getting suspicious!!! Only two dungeons and 24 man??? Fffff... Well we have to put out something!

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Originally Posted by RozaB

I feel like SEis trying to smoke screen us. Like look at this time consuming drawn out crap..... Guys!! Hurry up with that content they are getting suspicious!!! Only two dungeons and 24 man??? Fffff... Well we have to put out something!

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It's a little disingenuous to say 3.1 is strictly a pair of experts and CT feat. Diabolos.

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Originally Posted by fortuona

they've been more vocal than ever, especially with regard to 3.0 mixing things up and trying new approaches. if this turns out to be empty promises, or takes too long to deliver, people will simply lose interest and move on.

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Like new limit break, right?

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Originally Posted by Daralii

It's a little disingenuous to say 3.1 is strictly a pair of experts and CT feat. Diabolos.

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Didn't they say 2 new primals?

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Didn't they say 2 new primals?

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Probably one new primal as part of the MSQ, and Thordan EX was hinted at during The Rising.

New and different content types is only half the problem.

Everything in this game except housing is easily replaceable garbage including gil; nothing has any value. People may not like rare nm drops and the competition it brought, but those drops had value; they made gil have value in ffxi. I don't know about others, but that alone was enough to keep me hooked on xi, because not only did it have different content types, but they all had rare drops or at least something of worth in that game.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Probably one new primal as part of the MSQ, and Thordan EX was hinted at during The Rising.

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Thordan isn't a new primal. A Thordan EX would be a new TRIAL, but the primal itself we already know... IDK, I hope we see 2 really *new* primals AND Thordan EX as a plus (I love fighting him anyways).

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Originally Posted by Otoha

New and different content types is only half the problem.

Everything in this game except housing is easily replaceable garbage including gil; nothing has any value. People may not like rare nm drops and the competition it brought, but those drops had value; they made gil have value in ffxi. I don't know about others, but that alone was enough to keep me hooked on xi, because not only did it have different content types, but they all had rare drops or at least something of worth in that game.

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It's a double edged sword. It increases the longevity of content, but it also raises the barrier of entry by increasing the number of hurdles that new players need to get through to catch up. That's a definite problem when Yoshida's said they want the playerbase cycling.

Thank you everyone for your feedback. We will now be closing the thread.

GM Szisvaito