Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

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Originally Posted by arctic

Going over the opening rotation on the guide, is there a reason Gauss Barrel isn't used before the buffs? I'm probably wrong and these super math reason behind it, but it just seems like a waste of buff time putting up gauss right after you pop the buffs.

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Using it before the buffs and using it after the buffs results in an average potency difference of 200 over 90 seconds in favor of Gauss Barrel being used during the opener, it's very minor actually. This difference comes from the extra auto attacks you can get in before casting Gauss Barrel, whereas if you had Gauss Barrel at the start, you'd be losing out on those extra auto attacks. The reason why I included hard casting Gauss Barrel is because you're going to have to do that every time with your buffs active before Wildfire is used.

EDIT: Actually, using Gauss Barrel pre-pull and following it up with Gauss Round right at the start results in higher damage, thanks for the idea!

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Originally Posted by Cascadi

Using it before the buffs and using it after the buffs results in an average potency difference of 200 over 90 seconds in favor of Gauss Barrel being used during the opener, it's very minor actually. This difference comes from the extra auto attacks you can get in before casting Gauss Barrel, whereas if you had Gauss Barrel at the start, you'd be losing out on those extra auto attacks. The reason why I included hard casting Gauss Barrel is because you're going to have to do that every time with your buffs active before Wildfire is used.

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Thanks for the explanation!

So is this new rotation still on par with Bard or does the Rapid Fire fix ruin everything and make this class garbage again? Given that SE has said at the same time that they don't want to make balance changes until after Alexander, I'm kind of losing hope here.

The job has been out for what, almost 2 weeks now? With a little patience I'm sure the changes our job needs will present themselves eventually. ^^ I don't take the SE devs for blind ignorants. Let's stay vigilant!

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Originally Posted by Torunya

The job has been out for what, almost 2 weeks now? With a little patience I'm sure the changes our job needs will present themselves eventually. ^^ I don't take the SE devs for blind ignorants. Let's stay vigilant!

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They're saying they're not changing anything until after Alexander feedback. As is, MCH is being refused from Party Finder groups completely. There's no reason they won't be refused from Alexander groups too at this rate.

Gauss barrel can no longer be equipped with rapid fire. This rotation is now irrelevant. Job is completely destroyed.

The Gauss fix really does kind of suck. Without Gauss, the only real abilities we have to weave in outside of that buff phase are Head Graze, Blank and Quick Reload. Having Gauss around and Ricochet in there helped a bit with the monotony of waiting on a split shot proc. Not sure why they decided to lock abilities behind an ability wall and then have that ability hurt us more than it helps us.

https://youtu.be/jMrpmvXjDMs

Here you guys go. Full time Gauss Barrel. Please understand that Moving while being in a normal rotation is not hard to do. It just takes skill and practice. Please try to do your best at the job. I guarantee you Gauss Barrel isn't a DPS loss.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

https://youtu.be/jMrpmvXjDMs

Here you guys go. Full time Gauss Barrel. Please understand that Moving while being in a normal rotation is not hard to do. It just takes skill and practice. Please try to do your best at the job. I guarantee you Gauss Barrel isn't a DPS loss.

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Impressive. Mind posting out your opener if it's not already one in this thread? It's a bit hard to tell from just watching the video.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

https://youtu.be/jMrpmvXjDMs

Here you guys go. Full time Gauss Barrel. Please understand that Moving while being in a normal rotation is not hard to do. It just takes skill and practice. Please try to do your best at the job. I guarantee you Gauss Barrel isn't a DPS loss.

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post the parse of a no death ravana clear with and without gb on then come back to the forums. you know actual fights and not dummy numbers

edit: CONVINCE ME IN RAVANA EX that It is better to have gb on whole time and not off(as I have done better with it off like it should be)

It's already known gauss does high dmg when standing still. The problem comes in high mobile fight when procs are being unforgiving. This problem can be semi remedied with feint all though. I would have to try both ways in Ravana and Bismark to give it a fair trial.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

https://youtu.be/jMrpmvXjDMs

Here you guys go. Full time Gauss Barrel. Please understand that Moving while being in a normal rotation is not hard to do. It just takes skill and practice. Please try to do your best at the job. I guarantee you Gauss Barrel isn't a DPS loss.

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The only real problem I have with moving is when I get a drought of split shot procs, sometimes having to cast 5 or 6 times, which have a much greater chance of being interrupted. When reload is up, I have no problems as procs don't have the cast time.

There are also certain boss fights, like the first boss of Fractal and the last boss of Neverreap where it's very hard to get a split shot off with all the aoes flying around.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

I guarantee you Gauss Barrel isn't a DPS loss.

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While 943 is nice, I've seen higher parses without GB. That's not to say it isn't possible to pull decent #'s with GB on but your average with it only on in the opener should be higher.

I check this thread on a near daily basis in hopes that someone discovered something everyone missed that will somehow change all our dps problems </3

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Originally Posted by warkkwarkk9

I check this thread on a near daily basis in hopes that someone discovered something everyone missed that will somehow change all our dps problems </3

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Well they told bards that they were going to change the speed of WM Cast. Hopefully that means GB will be faster too. Faster stance dancing please!

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Originally Posted by warkkwarkk9

I check this thread on a near daily basis in hopes that someone discovered something everyone missed that will somehow change all our dps problems </3

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It's been discovered a long time ago and you have several solutions : Ninja, Dragoon, Monk, Black Mage or Summoner. Or even Warrior, Dark Knight, Paladin, White Mage, Scholar and Astro. Pouf, DPS problems gone ;)

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Originally Posted by Ephier

It's already known gauss does high dmg when standing still. The problem comes in high mobile fight when procs are being unforgiving. This problem can be semi remedied with feint all though. I would have to try both ways in Ravana and Bismark to give it a fair trial.

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Fulltime gauss does not necessarily mean more overall dps. There have been instances where GB has done less damage compared to using it for the initial burst and keeping it off for the rest of the fight/parse.

It should be a mix of having it on and off in accordance to the fight. The problem is that the 3 second cast discourages you trying to enable it mid fight unless there's downtime. The other problem is that when we're looking at dummy parses (as in, it's perfect circumstances where you can stand still the entire time), GB barely pulls ahead, if it does at all.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

It should be a mix of having it on and off in accordance to the fight. The problem is that the 3 second cast discourages you trying to enable it mid fight unless there's downtime. The other problem is that when we're looking at dummy parses (as in, it's perfect circumstances where you can stand still the entire time), GB barely pulls ahead, if it does at all.

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I agree. Long story short guys: ADAPT.

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Originally Posted by Elizabeth

I agree. Long story short guys: ADAPT.

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You have to understand the other end of the discussion though; the damage increase from GB is very small, if not a damage loss (on a dummy no less, so it's even more signifcant in an actual fight). It dips into the point of why even bother using it outside of burst. You can't use mid burst anymore because you can't instantly switch into GB, so the only option is when there is enough downtime to do so.

Does anyone know if ricochet can crit? I've hit for over 3k total damage with it once, non-crit, but want sure if it was possible to go higher.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Does anyone know if ricochet can crit? I've hit for over 3k total damage with it once, non-crit, but want sure if it was possible to go higher.

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Both hits can crit and they crit individually.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

While 943 is nice, I've seen higher parses without GB. That's not to say it isn't possible to pull decent #'s with GB on but your average with it only on in the opener should be higher.

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Can you post a post Rapid Fire fix parse of someone doing more non GB? Also, how do so many people have problems moving with GB up? You have a whole second between attacks if you don't have a proc let alone if you do get a proc or have Rapid Fire up. Stop wanting to be babied. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Both hits can crit and they crit individually.

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Damn, that's a hard hitting ability on a single target then. I haven't seen it crit yet, but it'll be nice when it does.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

Can you post a post Rapid Fire fix parse of someone doing more non GB? Also, how do so many people have problems moving with GB up? You have a whole second between attacks if you don't have a proc let alone if you do get a proc or have Rapid Fire up. Stop wanting to be babied. Seriously.

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I think the problem is not the casting part of the skill but the fact that while loosing a little mobility you loose DPS too, the skill is a loose/loose so that why people complaining. I've absolutly no problem to cast while GB up in any fight (BLM v2.0 was far more immobile)
The problem is pretty simple, did the loose of auto is compensate by the gain of 2 skills and the 20% damage up.

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Originally Posted by Blacksyd

I think the problem is not the casting part of the skill but the fact that while loosing a little mobility you loose DPS too, the skill is a loose/loose so that why people complaining. I've absolutly no problem to cast while GB up in any fight (BLM v2.0 was far more immobile)
The problem is pretty simple, did the loose of auto is compensate by the gain of 2 skills and the 20% damage up.

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Pretty much this. Its not that GB is not useable. By all means I love it, its just in a real fight outside of dummy application any interrupted casting you have to do destoys your DPS.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

Can you post a post Rapid Fire fix parse of someone doing more non GB? Also, how do so many people have problems moving with GB up? You have a whole second between attacks if you don't have a proc let alone if you do get a proc or have Rapid Fire up. Stop wanting to be babied. Seriously.

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its not about being babied. its the fact that having gb on its a no win trade off. feint doesn't proc our 50% proc and which a lot of these fights require movement you lost a chance to proc slug/clean if reload/quick reload are on cd. coupled the fact we don't get to use sprint like casters do as well as some of the lowest dmging moves outside ricochet. even the DEVS themselves said WM for brds is doing poorly and there brds are doing better then mch who do we need to get to tell you that you are wrong.

DO you need yoshi to personally come to your house and say you are wrong is that what it has to take to get it through your head?

Has anyone found a better post-Rapid Fire fix parse than the full time Gauss one linked above? I am in fact curious.

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Originally Posted by Shhikasan

its not about being babied. its the fact that having gb on its a no win trade off. feint doesn't proc our 50% proc and which a lot of these fights require movement you lost a chance to proc slug/clean if reload/quick reload are on cd. coupled the fact we don't get to use sprint like casters do as well as some of the lowest dmging moves outside ricochet. even the DEVS themselves said WM for brds is doing poorly and there brds are doing better then mch who do we need to get to tell you that you are wrong.

DO you need yoshi to personally come to your house and say you are wrong is that what it has to take to get it through your head?

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Everyone reads it as WM is doing poorly or that it's not working as intended when in fact the post just stated that it's more difficult to play the job with it up and that pre 60 it's not really a DPS increase. Idk why people are using Feint lol. You can move and use normal MCH skils and abilities without any loss in DPS. Just because the vast majority of the player base is bad and you're using them as a standard doesn't make the job itself bad when played properly. I need someone of relevance to post beside you all that agrees with you and states a reason why the job is bad. But I highly doubt you will get that.

Feint is used when you have to constantly move. There no reason not to have it, quelling strikes is useless. Currently our DPS is to low to pull off the tanks, so we might as well take another ability.

I agree with Hax here - GB is a complete waste of time after the rapidfire fix before 60 - but i have a feeling once you get Richochet that all changes. I've been trying a mix of the two on dungeons and its already pretty close in favor of non-GB. We'll see if 60 changes that.

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Originally Posted by Telepwnsauce

Feint is used when you have to constantly move. There no reason not to have it, quelling strikes is useless. Currently our DPS is to low to pull off the tanks, so we might as well take another ability.

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Between Rapid fire, ammo, and procs, you really shouldnt have issues moving. Also, the cast times are quite short so aside from Ravana EX (NON burn phases, i might add) movement isnt that bad.

Another thing to consider about Gauss is there there may be an ilevel point where the 20% boost becomes more economical, as its 20% of a greater number. I've been experimenting with fulltime gauss and finding my performance improved, though I can't really show any parses right now and can't say for certain.

Using Feint when moving like a BLM would use Scathe is a handy tip.

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Originally Posted by Haxetc

Can you post a post Rapid Fire fix parse of someone doing more non GB? Also, how do so many people have problems moving with GB up? You have a whole second between attacks if you don't have a proc let alone if you do get a proc or have Rapid Fire up. Stop wanting to be babied. Seriously.

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I had a 960 one I could have posted yesterday but here's a 945 I just did with the breakdown. Point being the consistency in AA DPS will give you a higher average than dependency on procs/crits in guass.

edit:Just saw your burst phase for your video in which you crit slug,clean, and richochet in a row before hitting the 3:30 mark so that's not exactly what I'd consider a normal parse. What do you average in regular circumstances?

http://i.imgur.com/Ul14QRN.png

http://i.imgur.com/n1U6Yna.png

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

I had a 960 one I could have posted yesterday but here's a 945 I just did with the breakdown. Point being the consistency in AA DPS will give you a higher average than dependency on procs/crits in guass.

http://i.imgur.com/Ul14QRN.png

http://i.imgur.com/n1U6Yna.png

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Interesting. What opener are you using and when are you toggling into Gauss there, if at all?

I would like to remind you all that you don't need to buy and upgrade all the Asuran pieces. Try to mix up the armors and accesories in order to maximize the best status. For example, the Valerian Fusilier's Choker and Valerian Fusilier's Earrings are better than the Asuran ones.

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Originally Posted by Divebombs

Interesting. What opener are you using and when are you toggling into Gauss there, if at all?

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Its pretty much the same as the one I posted a couple pages back except I keep gauss on prior to pull then take it off after the last slugshot before wildfire goes off.

General Question here, does anyone know if Gauss Barrel affects the potency of the turret damage as well? Also, I'm assuming turret damage is based off the Machinist's stats, is there a stat we can use to increase damage output of the turret while Gauss Barrel is in effect to make up for that which is lost from auto attacks? Just food for thought. I've heard food actually increases the damage output of the Turret.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

Its pretty much the same as the one I posted a couple pages back except I keep gauss on prior to pull then take it off after the last slugshot before wildfire goes off.

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I see. Testing things out myself now. Do you save Reload to time with your burst after the opener or just use it on CD?

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Originally Posted by Elizabeth

I would like to remind you all that you don't need to buy and upgrade all the Asuran pieces. Try to mix up the armors and accesories in order to maximize the best status. For example, the Valerian Fusilier's Choker and Valerian Fusilier's Earrings are better than the Asuran ones.

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Read up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...condary_stats/

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

I had a 960 one I could have posted yesterday but here's a 945 I just did with the breakdown. Point being the consistency in AA DPS will give you a higher average than dependency on procs/crits in guass.

edit:Just saw your burst phase for your video in which you crit slug,clean, and richochet in a row before hitting the 3:30 mark so that's not exactly what I'd consider a normal parse. What do you average in regular circumstances?

http://i.imgur.com/Ul14QRN.png

http://i.imgur.com/n1U6Yna.png

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so this continues to prove guass is just shit outside opener

Well, this is a pretty good opener, based on the @Massterchef's one:

1. Gauss Barrel
2. Raging Strikes
3. Blood for Blood
4. Hot Shot
5. Hawk's Eye
6. Hypercharge
7. Lead Shot
8. Dexterity Potion
9. Rapid Fire
10. Reload
11. Split Shot
12. Wildfire
13. Slug Shot
14. Head Graze
15. Split Shot
16. Feint
17. Reassemble
18. Clean Shot
19. Ricochet
20. Gauss Round
21. Slug Shot
22. Blank
23. Clean Shot
24. Quick Reload
25. Split Shot